Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[CBDMed]

I don't like the hormones, antibiotiocs and gawd knows what else big ag injects into the animals that likely end up in some part into the tissues that eventually would find their way to my garden and then into me. No thank you.

I can say that our grain supply seems forever tainted with their gmo crap making farmers ever dependent on those companies for their future. Monsanto has gmo seeds with built in insecticides so the farmer doesn't have to spray for pests, including apparently that pesky honey bee that is being killed off indiscriminately along with everything else.

And, the companies have a patent on those seeds which prohibit farmers from growing their own seeds for future crops which makes them ever dependent and so have to continually buy from big ag.

Their salt based fertilizers are poisoning the world's farm land making them dependent on those petroleum based inputs forever more.

It sounds like a big conspiracy theory until you start researching Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates and their efforts to control the world through the World Economic Forum and "The Great Reset." The motto? "You will own nothing and be happy about it."

Their aim is to essentially control the world with one socialist government including everything from world population, to energy, food and medicine (hence the worldwide efforts to force everyone to get the covid shot that was very hastily produced and now seems to be giving rise to increased health issues like cancers and autoimmune diseases thru the spike protein that gets injected).

So, no thank you to them and their World Domination. Stay the hell out of my life as I can make my own decisions and don't need the wealthy elite imposing their corrupt views on me, thank you.

I can trace some of my health issues to allergic reactions to common foods like grains and soy eventually rendering me unable to swallow food. The medical community's "solution?" Have me take steroids for the rest of my life. But any qualified doctor with tell you that treating a chronic life-long condition with steroids is a  very bad idea.

So, I deal with my issue by growing our favorite plant organically in the best way I can. It resolved that and many of my other ailments without resorting to the chemicals modern medicine seems so enamored with, even with the incredible side effects that come with them. Ancient remedies like the Chinese have been using for millennia are not only frowned upon but, in some cases like cannabis, are outlawed.

So, f*ck them and their paternalistic views on what I can do with my body. All they want to do is push drugs on us. I went to the doctor for a check-up many years ago and the blood tests revealed my cholesterol was a bit elevated. The proposed solution? A pill I had to take for the rest of my life which subsequently has been shown to cause certain cancers. No discussion of my diet or exercise was ever raised. The doctor went straight for the drugs. It seems there's no money for Big Pharma in healthy living.

So, yes, I'm a bit jaded. I'm happy to have qualified medical professionals suggest possible solutions to health issues, but when politicians with no medical background mandate what I can/will do with my body, well, they can all just fuck off.

Rant over.

Well, I agree 99%. (And I would add much more in many areas.)
Only, just out of curiosity, why do you label it "paternalistic" rather than either "maternalistic", or leaving it as a neutral?

 

[CBDMed]

Highya Azimuth,

I'm much like you in most of those respects. I never thought much about what else could be in bonemeal. I don't mind using organic products to supplement my grow, though. All those "bad things" in animals bodies have to get through all the processes inside the animals (hormones, steroids, etc) Digestion, liver, etc. Then, the plant's roots ingest what the plant wants by way of exudates. Not only all this, but cannabis is noted for leaving tainted soil better than before planting. I don't know how, but given all those things, I have confidence in our plant that it won't ruin me physically. Happy Smokin'

Hey Bode. Are you saying that organic bonemeal should still be good (if one can find organic bonemeal)?

 

[Bode]

I'm saying it's good for me. I've never heard or read anything against organic supplements or bonemeal in particular, so I'll continue to use it. Also, I am in good health (for 71), and my cannabis has only been good for me. No unusual oddities, or unusual symptoms, so I'll keep growing the way I do, until the day I die. I don't mean that as a smart aleck remark, just stating how I feel. Happy Smokin'

 

[CBDMed]

I'm saying it's good for me. I've never heard or read anything against organic supplements or bonemeal in particular, so I'll continue to use it. Also, I am in good health (for 71), and my cannabis has only been good for me. No unusual oddities, or unusual symptoms, so I'll keep growing the way I do, until the day I die. I don't mean that as a smart aleck remark, just stating how I feel. Happy Smokin'

Just to clarify, I did not take it as a smart aleck remark. I took you at face value. I also don't like the way Big Food (read: Hunger Games Global Inc.) is going, and am eager to be bio-sustainable (hence Colombia). I just wondered if there was anything wrong with organic bone meal. (Sounds like not.) Thanks.

 

[Azimuth]

Not only all this, but cannabis is noted for leaving tainted soil better than before planting. I don't know how, but given all those things, I have confidence in our plant that it won't ruin me physically.

But that's because the cannabis plant is so good at absorbing things from the environment. I've seen large scale remedial projects where hemp was used to detoxify farm land from heavy metals. The hemp is planted, absorbs the toxicity, and then gets removed offsite.

And, to be clear, I'm not saying that all animal products are tainted with those things or even that they necessarily make it into the bone tissue, although it certainly gets into the blood.

But what I am saying is that I'd rather use a source of minerals I can grow myself out back with organic inputs. It's not for everyone, but it works for me.

Only, just out of curiosity, why do you label it "paternalistic" rather than either "maternalistic", or leaving it as a neutral?

Common expression. World cultures have evolved from largely male dominated societies and strength and power are often used to mandate and impose behaviors in various populations.

 

[CBDMed]

But that's because the cannabis plants is so good at absorbing things from the environment. I've seen large scale remedial projects where hemp was used to detoxify farm land from heavy metals. The hemp is planted, absorbs the toxicity, and then gets removed offsite.

And, to be clear, I'm not saying that all animal products are tainted with those things or even that they necessarily make it into the bone tissue, although it certainly gets into the blood.

But what I am saying is that I'd rather use a source of minerals I can grow myself out back with organic inputs. It's not for everyone, but it works for me.

They have found traces of Roundup in rainwater. So there is no way to get away from it completely. I just try to do the best I can. Running OUT of food when they outlaw irrigation in 8 years seems the more immediate danger.

Common expression. World cultures have evolved from largely male dominated societies and strength and power are often used to mandate behaviors in various populations.

Right. But without wanting to start anything (on your thread), would it be wrong to note that without said patriarchal structure, society generally does not advance beyond the mud hut level? (And that this would mandate further levels of population reduction, in addition to their desired 95%?)

 

[Azimuth]

LAB vs RWC

I wanted to make two small containers of comfrey JLF (Jadam Liquid Fertiler) so thought it would be a good opportunity for another experiment.

It seems some people use LAB (Lactic Acid Bacteria, or Lactobacillus) instead of either Leaf Mold Soil or RWC to breakdown plant material. I get that not everyone wants to deal with worms and worm castings, but making a jar of LAB is easy enough for anyone to do so if this works well enough it may provide an alternative for some.

I have two jars, each with 1Tbl of comfrey crumble and 16oz of rain water. One has 1Tbl of LAB and the other 1Tbl of RWC. I want to see how the two compare for breaking down the material. I also want to see how the strength of the roughly 1:30 crumble:water mix compares to that of the fresh comfrey leaf I would have normally used.

I'll let them sit for a few weeks and then reevaluate.

It's been about 5 months for the LAB vs RWC experiment and I'm tired of looking at the bottles on the shelf so I'm calling this one done.

The RWC has reduced the plant material in the jar to essentially a very fine mush or silt at the bottom of the container and the color is a deeper, richer brown than the other.

The LAB container still has recognizable pieces of the crumble I started with, the smell is a bit vinegary, and the color much thinner and more clear than the other. I will admit though that my LAB is a bit old and that could very well have affected the results. It has been stored on the shelf and was mixed with an equal amount by volume of molasses which is supposed to keep it shelf stable for years. I do use it to help with digestion and it seems to still work as well as it did when I made it, for that purpose at least.

@ReservoirDog asked if I would pH the two upon completion, so here are the results:
RWC: 6.70 pH
LAB: 4.01 pH

My conclusion is that my castings continue to remain undefeated in all of my various trials. The RWC fully broke down the material and the smell is a nice earthy one with no rotting overtones. Very pleasant. The LAB version was a bit disappointing after about 5 months as a large amount of the material looks close to what it did when I started. So, for me LAB is significantly inferior to my castings for converting raw plant material into Jadam Liquid Goodness.

I may continue to experiment with combinations of the castings and maybe leaf mold, but I have found a variety of ways my castings have been useful in the garden and they are very simple and easy to make so I'll continue to pursue this option going forward.

 

[StoneOtter]

Thanks Azi! What is 1Tbl ? I know Tbs is tablespoon.

 

[ReservoirDog]

It's been about 5 months for the LAB vs RWC experiment and I'm tired of looking at the bottles on the shelf so I'm calling this one done.

The RWC has reduced the plant material in the jar to essentially a very fine mush or silt at the bottom of the container and the color is a deeper, richer brown than the other.

The LAB container still has recognizable pieces of the crumble I started with, the smell is a bit vinegary, and the color much thinner and more clear than the other. I will admit though that my LAB is a bit old and that could very well have affected the results. It has been stored on the shelf and was mixed with an equal amount by volume of molasses which is supposed to keep it shelf stable for years. I do use it to help with digestion and it seems to still work as well as it did when I made it, for that purpose at least.

@ReservoirDog asked if I would pH the two upon completion, so here are the results:
RWC: 6.70 pH
LAB: 4.01 pH

My conclusion is that my castings continue to remain undefeated in all of my various trials. The RWC fully broke down the material and the smell is a nice earthy one with no rotting overtones. Very pleasant. The LAB version was a bit disappointing after about 5 months as a large amount of the material looks close to what it did when I started. So, for me LAB is significantly inferior to my castings for converting raw plant material into Jadam Liquid Goodness.

I may continue to experiment with combinations of the castings and maybe leaf mold, but I have found a variety of ways my castings have been useful in the garden and they are very simple and easy to make so I'll continue to pursue this option going forward.

Yer the best. Thanks for remembering.

Tell me more about your human digestion trials (that sounded Dalhmer-ish, sorry - not sorry!). What foods give you trouble? Do you use it prophylactically, or as needed?

My lacto-bac use over the last six months since making it for myself the first time is 80% household cleaning and 5% "I wonder what'll happen if I do this..." and 15% in transplanting. I use it in a spray to constantly wet every input and activate all of the other bio-goodness in the transplant mix (The spray is: LABs, fulvic , Epsom, Liquid Dirt, and baby formula - all mixed with distilled or treated tap water in a sprayer) I've been thinking about making labs with baby formula to see what that's like. SUPER-LAB! haha. Prob not.

I sure didn't expect this but I've found the stuff (I use 'fresh', sans sucre, stored in a dark cool space and kept 30-45 days only) to be an incredible grout and general bathroom cleaner. I make it with powdered milk, of which I have a significant supply (not a prepper, just prepared), and one gallon per batch as that's how much I use in a month! Almost all for cleaning. I've cleaned greasy automotive parts, and heavily burnt cookware, inside my microwave, and refrigerator, just wherever tough jobs present I apply liberally, as the phrase goes, and then wait 15-30 mins. Upon my return, the work's been done - all but the wiping up.

I also like being exposed to a great deal of different bacterial strains as a matter of maintaining a healthy bacterial biont in and around my body. Our genes provide our potential, but our bacteria define our immediate health state, and thus our ability to maximize the genetic potential mom and dad have given us.

thanks for the follow up Azi.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks Azi! What is 1Tbl ? I know Tbs is tablespoon.

Tbl =Tablespoon
tsp = teaspoon

At least in Azi's world.

 

[Azimuth]

Yer the best. Thanks for remembering.

Tell me more about your human digestion trials (that sounded Dalhmer-ish, sorry - not sorry!). What foods give you trouble? Do you use it prophylactically, or as needed?

My lacto-bac use over the last six months since making it for myself the first time is 80% household cleaning and 5% "I wonder what'll happen if I do this..." and 15% in transplanting. I use it in a spray to constantly wet every input and activate all of the other bio-goodness in the transplant mix (The spray is: LABs, fulvic , Epsom, Liquid Dirt, and baby formula - all mixed with distilled or treated tap water in a sprayer) I've been thinking about making labs with baby formula to see what that's like. SUPER-LAB! haha. Prob not.

I sure didn't expect this but I've found the stuff (I use 'fresh', sans sucre, stored in a dark cool space and kept 30-45 days only) to be an incredible grout and general bathroom cleaner. I make it with powdered milk, of which I have a significant supply (not a prepper, just prepared), and one gallon per batch as that's how much I use in a month! Almost all for cleaning. I've cleaned greasy automotive parts, and heavily burnt cookware, inside my microwave, and refrigerator, just wherever tough jobs present I apply liberally, as the phrase goes, and then wait 15-30 mins. Upon my return, the work's been done - all but the wiping up.

I also like being exposed to a great deal of different bacterial strains as a matter of maintaining a healthy bacterial biont in and around my body. Our genes provide our potential, but our bacteria define our immediate health state, and thus our ability to maximize the genetic potential mom and dad have given us.

thanks for the follow up Azi.

Good stuff ResDog!

Those are a few new uses for me.

I use LAB in a few different ways.

For digestion. I have issues digesting milk and ice cream, grains, and burgers and other things. Nothing too extreme, but definitely doesn't go smoothly. So, I add a splash of my LAB/molasses mix to a small glass of water after eating those things and it really helps.

For organic smells. LAB is a miracle worker for this. I have a friend who's a fishing charter captain and he used it to knock down the smells that accompany a successful fishing trip. But, spraying on an overripe compost bucket, or any organic smell almost instantly clears. Pretty remarkable actually. Master Cho uses it (actually something similar) for knocking down the smells from raising pigs!

Drain cleaner. Pouring some down a slow running drain can help clear out the gunk that accumulates inside pipes. Never knew about the cleaning potential on grout. Interesting.

Bokashi starter. This was my original reason for making it, although I no longer compost that way.

I don't actually use it much in the grow as I more use my worm castings as I prefer the broader microbe representation, rather than the singular type of the lacto, but I see you add your liquid dirt which broadens out the offering.

LAB is definitely good stuff.

 

[Bode]

Highya Azimuth,

IO'm sure the LAB microbes died off a short time (days) after you started. Do you remember when Cho Jr. said to use the JADAM microbe solution when the ring of bubbles was almost gone. That the microbes wouldn't live a day more? I'm guessing that's what happened. Happy Smokin'

 

[ReservoirDog]

Drain cleaner. Pouring some down a slow running drain can help clear out the gunk that accumulates inside pipes.

Here’s my experiment for DWC roots besieged by baddies or in need of a cleaning. Cost is 65$CAD for 2lbs. on TheNile. Best part is it arrives as a stable dry powder complete with all the good extra enzymes added. So really it's a bacterial culture with added enzymes - be careful with the stuff.

Dry powder means Loooong shelf life, and added enzymes mean powerful as hell. An absolutely screaming deal over all the canna-zymes. This makes over 100 gallons of a concentrate similar to the DWC 'zymes on the market, for the price of one gallon of retail canna-zymes. Plus, you get actual living bacteria that excrete more 'zymes over time. Think of it as 'salts' vs bottled nutes, the major difference is water. There are similar US-based products out there, this one is Canadian. Search for 'Septic tank bacteria', there are RV black-tank ones as well. They're all made up of strains that consume fats, lignum, cellulose and proteins and turn them into fertilizer.

Lately, I've been using it on white powdery mildew (wpm). My go-to wpm treatment is a combination of tartaric, malic and citric acids from the winemaking shop. My grow lights have 385nm UV diodes that I'm trying on wpm control also. All I can say so far is that the acid combo absolutely kicks fungi to the curb because I've used it for almost 2 years in the garden. So far the 'zymes are keeping up, but it's only been a few weeks. I know I have wpm here, so I spray both preventatively and to eradicate any visually apparent hyphae - an issue I sometimes have in my attic mother-plant grow.

Vis a vis this 'drain cleaner', remember, I am only experimenting, not recommending. It appears to work very well cleaning dwc roots and might be a good preventative mixed into a soiless mix. Once I put two tablespoons (the provided scoop full) into a 27gal DWC rez and the thing turned into a giant root beer float. Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey Az

Here’s my experiment for DWC roots besieged by baddies or in need of a cleaning. Cost is 65$CAD for 2lbs. on TheNile. Best part is it arrives as a stable dry powder complete with all the good extra enzymes added. So really it's a bacterial culture with added enzymes - be careful with the stuff.

Dry powder means Loooong shelf life, and added enzymes mean powerful as hell. An absolutely screaming deal over all the canna-zymes. This makes over 100 gallons of a concentrate similar to the DWC 'zymes on the market, for the price of one gallon of retail canna-zymes. Plus, you get actual living bacteria that excrete more 'zymes over time. Think of it as 'salts' vs bottled nutes, the major difference is water. There are similar US-based products out there, this one is Canadian. Search for 'Septic tank bacteria', there are RV black-tank ones as well. They're all made up of strains that consume fats, lignum, cellulose and proteins and turn them into fertilizer.

Lately, I've been using it on white powdery mildew (wpm). My go-to wpm treatment is a combination of tartaric, malic and citric acids from the winemaking shop. My grow lights have 385nm UV diodes that I'm trying on wpm control also. All I can say so far is that the acid combo absolutely kicks fungi to the curb because I've used it for almost 2 years in the garden. So far the 'zymes are keeping up, but it's only been a few weeks. I know I have wpm here, so I spray both preventatively and to eradicate any visually apparent hyphae - an issue I sometimes have in my attic mother-plant grow.

Vis a vis this 'drain cleaner', remember, I am only experimenting, not recommending. It appears to work very well cleaning dwc roots and might be a good preventative mixed into a soiless mix. Once I put two tablespoons (the provided scoop full) into a 27gal DWC rez and the thing turned into a giant root beer float. Forewarned is forearmed.

That seems very important! Thanks, RezDog!
(By the way, did Lady Madonna get an anti-tank missile?? Haha. Or what happened?)

Also, @Azimuth , is there any way you could please translate into Noob?
(I checked Google Translate and DeepL, but they don't offer that service, haha.)

 

[Azimuth]

Hey Az

That seems very important! Thanks, RezDog!
(By the way, did Lady Madonna get an anti-tank missile?? Haha. Or what happened?)

Also, @Azimuth , is there any way you could please translate into Noob?
(I checked Google Translate and DeepL, but they don't offer that service, haha.)

Missiles? Translations? Madonna?

Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about. Put the bong down and back away slowly....

 

[CBDMed]

Missiles? Translations? Madonna?

Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about. Put the bong down and back away slowly....

R.O.F.L.
Too funny!! (I WISH I was that stoned!!)

I was just teasing bro RD about his new avatar (zoom in a little...haha. At first I thought she was carrying a great big water pipe, but me thinks it is "da bomb" in another sense, mon.).

RD is always laying down some super-heavy-duty stuff that goes wayyyy over my head, and flies by me at Mach 5. I found it on the Volga River, but didn' catch all instructions, mon! And I don' wanna hurt me plants more than me already has, mon! So was hopin' you could please take da spliff and help me translate inta da Noob!
Many thanks, mon!

 

[nick5311]

Leaf mold question - I'm wanting to experiment with leaf mold and wanted to harvest some locally. I'm scouting various wooded areas and have found various examples which leave me with questions. My first find was what I expected - leaves in advanced decomposition, almost soil like, but not as wet. Second location, right under the layer of this year's leaves, I find really rich looking black soil with earthworms, much more moist, but the texture is definitely different as well - muddier I guess. Is it leaf mold vs leaf compost? Is either better than the other?

 

[Azimuth]

R.O.F.L.
Too funny!! (I WISH I was that stoned!!)

I was just teasing bro RD about his new avatar (zoom in a little...haha. At first I thought she was carrying a great big water pipe, but me thinks it is "da bomb" in another sense, mon.).

RD is always laying down some super-heavy-duty stuff that goes wayyyy over my head, and flies by me at Mach 5. I found it on the Volga River, but didn' catch all instructions, mon! And I don' wanna hurt me plants more than me already has, mon! So was hopin' you could please take da spliff and help me translate inta da Noob!
Many thanks, mon!

Ah, ok. I didn't catch his new avatar. Your post makes more sense now. Maybe it's me that needs to back away....

ResDog was responding to a post in which I described how I used my LAB, one of which was to help clear clogged drains. He "saw my bet and raised me" with his industrial version of the clogged pipe solution. I'm actually going to look at that becasue I think the additional enzymes he describes could really boost the effectiveness.

 

[Azimuth]

Leaf mold question - I'm wanting to experiment with leaf mold and wanted to harvest some locally. I'm scouting various wooded areas and have found various examples which leave me with questions. My first find was what I expected - leaves in advanced decomposition, almost soil like, but not as wet. Second location, right under the layer of this year's leaves, I find really rich looking black soil with earthworms, much more moist, but the texture is definitely different as well - muddier I guess. Is it leaf mold vs leaf compost? Is either better than the other?

Hey Nick, good question. Here is a good video on the basics. And Here is a post from earlier in the thread where I described an experiment comparing leaf mold, CSPM, and coco.

Leaf mold is a cold, fungal breakdown process rather than a bacterial hot one. Generally it takes a couple of years to fully break down into a fine humus like material so you may just be looking at leaf mold in various states of breakdown.

The second source you describe is a great source of leaf mold soil that is used in Jadam to make various things including the JMS (Jadam Microbial Solution) and is a combination of leaf mold and the soil it rests on. The real magic is in the microbes that inhabit this layer. You found gold my friend.

You can read up on making the JMS from the links in my signature, which are also from earlier in the thread.

 

[nick5311]

Assuming this continues, I wonder if I would be able to feed my liquid KNF and Jadam extractions via the reservoir since the microbes needed for delivery will be in the soil sitting right there in the water. That will be something I'll test in the 1L version in the coming weeks.

I've been digging through your posts trying to get the big picture on how this experiment is going, unfortunately I have a hard time aligning your progress posts to this particular plant. How is it going with leaf mold at the bottom? Have you tried feeding into the reservoir and do you feel it successful?