Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[Bode]

Highya Azimuth,

Phosphorus is a slow moving nutrient. Takes a while to source it by the roots and microbes, plus it's slopw to move up the plant. My source says to add enough in the soil/medium at the start, than add monthly, if needed. Happy Smokin'

 

[scottreid1966]

I made and applied the comfrey salve to my lower back. It worked great! I noticed a marked improvement after a couple of days which I imagine is because the "cell regeneration" properties of the allantoin in the comfrey take some time to get regenerating.

I think it may have worked because of one of three reasons (or maybe some combination of them)
1. The Placebo effect. I wanted it to work, therefore it did.
2. The Time effect. My back was getting steadily better anyway, so maybe it was just healing on its own
3. The Allantoin effect. The allantoin compounds found in the plant worked their magic.

I think it was at least partially (3.) since it seemed to really accelerate my recuperation. I was able to get in and out of bed without excruciating pain after about 24 hours of my first application. Again, I attribute this to the fact that creating new cells to repair the damaged ones isn't an instant thing, but rather one that builds as cells divide, which occurs over time. I was getting better at a fairly slow and steady clip, but this seemed to have shaved several days to maybe a week off what seemed to be the pace of recovery I was on.

I will say that I am very pleased with the results and would highly recommend it to others interested in a healing salve rather than one just for helping with the pain as we might get from our favorite plant.

------

Here's how I made it:

- 4oz (by volume) of dried, crushed comfrey leaves (I needed 4 large leaves)
- 8oz (by volume) of organic coconut oil

I heated and periodically stirred this mix up for 5+ hours in the little warming pot that came with my crock pot for keeping chocolate and cheeses warm. I'm guessing it was well less than 212*. It's apparently important not to cook the herbs but rather just gently heat them with the carrier oil over many hours. I imagine a coffee mug warmer might work just as well.

Then I strained the mixture through a fine steel sieve into small jars and let cool.

That’s it. Really simple and easy.

When I applied it it went on smoothly and didn't leave any greasy feel once it absorbed into the skin after about ten minutes. It did leave my skin a bit itchy which I attributed to the smaller gritty particles that made it through the screen so I reheated the mix and ran it through a coffee filter which seems to have solved that minor annoyance.

I've got lots more leaves to harvest and I'm going to mix some of them with the plantain plant which is supposed to have great properties of its own in helping with any skin irritations (rashes, bug bites, poison ivy, etc.). I think that combination would make a great 'Hiking Salve' to help with the most common issues out on the trail from mosquito bites to twisted ankles.

Hello my friend Azi! Hope all goes well with you. Still fighting PM on my flowering girls, although I followed the recipe exactly. Dish soap is Dawn. The one they use to clean animals after an oil spill.

Just made my first batch of JMS (I know, about time) and you mentionned aloe or organic soap. Not familiar with the soap. Is it liquid? I have a couple of small aloe plants. How much would I need per 1 litre batch?

Also I would like to try that comfrey salve but don't have that particular plant. Do you know if it can be bought? Also, where does one buy organic coconut oil. The pharmacy?

Take care.

 

[Azimuth]

Hello my friend Azi! Hope all goes well with you. Still fighting PM on my flowering girls, although I followed the recipe exactly.

Have you tried Shed's Citric Acid Recipe for the PM? Or, @danishoes21 seemed to have really good results with willow extract on his plants this fall. I have to stir things up on that thread and see if growers had success or not.

Dish soap is Dawn. The one they use to clean animals after an oil spill.

But still a chemical detergent, not a true soap. Some have reported success with it though.

Just made my first batch of JMS (I know, about time) and you mentionned aloe or organic soap. Not familiar with the soap. Is it liquid?

The soap for foliar is, yes. Dr Bonner's soaps are soaps. But you're looking for "potassium salts of fatty acids" on the label of listed ingredients.

I have a couple of small aloe plants. How much would I need per 1 litre batch?

Try half an ounce or so (1T). Best to blend it up all together and omit the skins if you're going to run it through a sprayer. You're looking for a runny enough liquid to go through your sprayer but also use enough so it foams up a bit. I just cut off and use a chunk about the size of a tablespoon.

Also I would like to try that comfrey salve but don't have that particular plant. Do you know if it can be bought?

Yes, you can buy comfrey leaves and root. The root is more powerful but will be like a thick jelly when rehydrated and will dry to a consistency of dried fruit leather.

Also, where does one buy organic coconut oil. The pharmacy?

I get it at the grocery store near the olive oil. Comes in various forms from a clear liquid to the stuff that solidifies at room temps below 78*F. I use the solid stuff and just warm the container some when I want to measure it out.

 

[scottreid1966]

Have you tried Shed's Citric Acid Recipe for the PM? Or, @danishoes21 seemed to have really good results with willow extract on his plants this fall. I have to stir things up on that thread and see if growers had success or not.


But still a chemical detergent, not a true soap. Some have reported success with it though.


The soap for foliar is, yes. Dr Bonner's soaps are soaps. But you're looking for "potassium salts of fatty acids" on the label of listed ingredients.


Try half an ounce or so (1T). Best to blend it up all together and omit the skins if you're going to run it through a sprayer. You're looking for a runny enough liquid to go through your sprayer but also use enough so it foams up a bit. I just cut off and use a chunk about the size of a tablespoon.


Yes, you can buy comfrey leaves and root. The root is more powerful but will be like a thick jelly when rehydrated and will dry to a consistency of dried fruit leather.



I get it at the grocery store near the olive oil. Comes in various forms from a clear liquid to the stuff that solidifies at room temps below 78*F. I use the solid stuff and just warm the container some when I want to measure it out.

Thank you!
Book-marked it for future reference. Short-term memory not as good as it used to be. Hence, the bookmarks. lol

Thanks, buddy!

 

[Azimuth]

12/15 and moving day in Aziland.

I'm trying to reset my perpetual grow after changing from three plants in flower with a harvest every month, to two plants and a harvest every 6 weeks, so my Northern Lights 5 got promoted to flower after about 6 weeks in veg, and my ACDC CBD clone got up-potted into a 2G SIP to begin its veg cycle.

I've been having a bit of a P problem about 3 weeks into flower with these SIPS so I'm trying something different with these latest two. My soil seems to work great for about 6 weeks before it runs out of gas which wasn't much of a problem before I switched to SIPs since I used to up-pot right before flip with fresh soil, but since switching I've been vegging in the final container and just top dressing with new amendments at pot-up.

So with the NL5 I started in on the Jadam nutes about 2 weeks ago and with the ACDC I'll give it the nutes every week to try to keep the nutrient battery topped off and  hopefully I can postpone the P issues for at least 2-3 extra weeks, but well see how it works.

The NL5 got full Veg nutes plus half strength Fruit & Flower with which I pretty much filled the reservoir. It replaces the last one that had mite and thrip issues so I'll try to pay close attention this round.

For the ACDC I top dressed with my bug mix, some worm castings, and a mulch layer of my aged leaf mold, and misted everything down to get things started. I put just a little water in the reservoir but probably won't end up adding any more for another week or two to let the roots get established.

Finally, the SIP clones are almost a week in and I've filled the reservoirs a couple of times to keep them from drying out.

I'm seeing pistils at about 10 days after flip on the Northern Lights 5 if I look with magnification so the SIP's don't seem to transition to flower any quicker than a normal pot at least so far from my observations. My last plant transitioned in 3-4 days but I think that was an aberration.

The NL5 is the best looking plant I've ever taken into flower, but it's generally been about week 3 of flower where I start to see deficiencies so I won't know for a month or so if the changes I've recently made are working. But so far the color is great and it is stretching more than any previous plant so I'm optimistic.

The changes I've made are the new SIP pot structure of the dome from the false floor, having my soil mix all the way to the bottom of the pot and not suspended above it on a layer of hydroton, and the feeding of my Jadam fertilizers exclusively through the reservoir, although I am topdressing with my castings, bug mix and malted barley in a weekly rotation. The Jadam nutes themselves are also new as previously I was relying on my castings for most of my nutrient inputs.

I've also been playing around with the strength of the nutes as I try to find the level that is too much and then plan to ease off from there. My latest inputs are running at a dilution rate of 1:15 which is stronger than recommended by Master Cho. I'm ok with doing that since I've combined a few JLF's into one Veg Juice mix and the individual inputs are very complimentary towards each other with not a lot of overlap.

My last two SIP's had a bug issue and a P issue respectively so I'm hoping third time's the charm. I did notice some mites on the NL5 and sprayed with Safer's Soap a few days ago and will follow up with another probably today.

 

[scottreid1966]

Mini-Me JMS

(Jadam Microorganism Solution)

The recipes used in Jadam were all written using amounts suitable for small farms. Since we gardeners operate at a much smaller scale, we have to adapt them for our purposes.

The original JMS recipe starts with 500 Liters or 132 gallons of water. It then adds 0.5 kg (1.1 lb) of leaf mold soil, 1 kg (2.2 lb) boiled potato, and 0.5 kg (1.1 lb) of sea salt. The mix then gets diluted 1:10 with more water before use.

Here it is scaled down for 1L or 1Qt, which is then diluted into 10L or 2.5 gallons to give to your plants

**********
1 Liter / 1 Qt Non-chlorinated water (I use rain water)
1 Gram / 1/8 tsp Leaf Mold Soil or Red Worm Castings
1 Gram / 1/8 tsp Sea Salt
2 Gram / 1/4 - 1/2 tsp Dried Potato Flakes

Mix it all together, cover and let it sit near the plants you'll use it on so you will be culturing the microbes that will thrive in that environment. Depending on temperatures it will be done in anywhere from 2 days to a week or so.

**********

I sometimes heat the potato flakes and a small amount of the water in the microwave, maybe 1min on high. It seems to help the flakes dissolve, although it works fine without doing that. I also often make half the amount depending on how much I plan to use.

The reason you need so little of the microbe ingredient is because of their ability to multiply. According to Master Cho, the microbes will double every 30 minutes or so. So even if you have the world's worst leaf mold soil or the world's worst worms which make the world's worst castings, the Eighth Wonder of the World, compounding, will come to your rescue.

Here's the math for every 1 microbe:
1 million after 10 hours
1 billion after 15 hours

It is recommended to dilute it 1:10 for use as a soil drench. For a foliar application, filter and dilute 1:25 and add a small amount of a wetting agent like aloe or an organic soap.

Hello my friend Azi! I hope all is well with you.

I think I waited too long on my JMS because the bubbles formed a hard skin like gravey after it has cooled. I did manage to scoop up dome snow yesterday and am ready to start anew but have a few questions.

it will be done in anywhere from 2 days to a week or so.

How do you know when? Room temp. here during heating season is 71C.

Mix it all together, cover and let it sit near the plants

In my ignorance, I don't understand how they can culture the environmental microbes with a barrier/cover between them.

Lastly, my friend. When is the best time to spray whay type of filter would you use for foliar. I have fine cheese-cloth available for tinctures.

Thanks, Azi!

 

[Azimuth]

How do you know when? Room temp. here during heating season is 71C.

That's a bit of trial and error. You use it at the peak of bubbles. But how do you recognize the peak? You do it a few times and go past peak and you'll start to recognize the right time.

Reminds me of the joke of the traveler in a foreign city who asked a fellow bus rider how he would know which stop to get off at. "Oh, that's easy said the other. Just watch me and get off one stop before I do."

In my ignorance, I don't understand how they can culture the environmental microbes with a barrier/cover between them.

You cultivate them in a separate container from your plants and then pour them on or foliar them with a sprayer. I just use a metal sink strainer but anything that will filter out particles that are too big to go through the sprayer nozzle.

 

[Azimuth]

So, based on a discussion in Keffka 's Thread with @Keffka and @Gee64 , I'm implementing a new strategy in my grow.

Basically, we were discussing how important fungi is to an organic grow and how it takes time to initially develop without the interference from bacteria. Most growers are using myco's like Dynomyco or Great White, but I'm going to see if the stuff I get with my ALM (Aged Leaf Mold) will work similarly.

So, what I'm going to do for my new standard practice is set up my next pot 6 weeks before pot up of the next plant in the rotation and plant a sacrificial plant to give the myco some live roots to work with as they get established and then, when I pot up my next plant, I'll cover crop the sacrificial one. It was suggested that a canna or hemp plant might be best to use since the myco might specialize, so I'll just use some of the seeds I made from my pollen chucking experiment since I have many hundreds of seeds from that that I'll never use.

I'll plant one of those along with a bean seed to fix some nitrogen in my mix and see how it goes. I'll also build the mix around an empty 9oz cup so I can transplant the new clone without disturbing the myco in any appreciable way.

I never really understood the whole cover crop thing, but if the true reason for it is to build the mycelium in the mix, then that makes total sense to me.

Interesting stuff to be sure.

 

[Gee64]

So, based on a discussion in Keffka 's Thread with @Keffka and @Gee64 , I'm implementing a new strategy in my grow.

Basically, we were discussing how important fungi is to an organic grow and how it takes time to initially develop without the interference from bacteria. Most growers are using myco's like Dynomyco or Great White, but I'm going to see if the stuff I get with my ALM (Aged Leaf Mold) will work similarly.

So, what I'm going to do for my new standard practice is set up my next pot 6 weeks before pot up of the next plant in the rotation and plant a sacrificial plant to give the myco some live roots to work with as they get established and then, when I pot up my next plant, I'll cover crop the sacrificial one. It was suggested that a canna or hemp plant might be best to use since the myco might specialize, so I'll just use some of the seeds I made from my pollen chucking experiment since I have many hundreds of seeds from that that I'll never use.

I'll plant one of those along with a bean seed to fix some nitrogen in my mix and see how it goes. I'll also build the mix around an empty 9oz cup so I can transplant the new clone without disturbing the myco in any appreciable way.

I never really understood the whole cover crop thing, but if the true reason for it is to build the mycelium in the mix, then that makes total sense to me.

Interesting stuff to be sure.

I like this idea! I am in.

 

[scottreid1966]

So, based on a discussion in Keffka 's Thread with @Keffka and @Gee64 , I'm implementing a new strategy in my grow.

Basically, we were discussing how important fungi is to an organic grow and how it takes time to initially develop without the interference from bacteria. Most growers are using myco's like Dynomyco or Great White, but I'm going to see if the stuff I get with my ALM (Aged Leaf Mold) will work similarly.

So, what I'm going to do for my new standard practice is set up my next pot 6 weeks before pot up of the next plant in the rotation and plant a sacrificial plant to give the myco some live roots to work with as they get established and then, when I pot up my next plant, I'll cover crop the sacrificial one. It was suggested that a canna or hemp plant might be best to use since the myco might specialize, so I'll just use some of the seeds I made from my pollen chucking experiment since I have many hundreds of seeds from that that I'll never use.

I'll plant one of those along with a bean seed to fix some nitrogen in my mix and see how it goes. I'll also build the mix around an empty 9oz cup so I can transplant the new clone without disturbing the myco in any appreciable way.

I never really understood the whole cover crop thing, but if the true reason for it is to build the mycelium in the mix, then that makes total sense to me.

Interesting stuff to be sure.

I just saw a documentary on mushrooms and fungi today and was going to ask you if there was a thread about it!
Will read Keftas but will follow this on.

 

[Azimuth]

I just saw a documentary on mushrooms and fungi today and was going to ask you if there was a thread about it!
Will read Keftas but will follow this on.

There's some really good info in both of his threads, so be sure to check out his other one too.

 

[Azimuth]

Just did a rootopsy on the most recent harvested plant, the first of my dome style reservoir, although this one had the hydroton clay balls in the reservoir level keeping the soil out of the reservoir.

This was a beast of a plant and the roots show why. Only the fine feeder roots were present and they were well represented throughout, including fully populating the hydroton. There was even a matted strand of roots coming straight down the middle of the dome and connecting to the water. Pretty impressive.

The next plant looks even better and it has the reservoir dome but also has soil all the way to the bottom of the pot and draping over the dome except for a section surrounding the overflow hole. It's just beginning week two of flower so I have a ways to go to know if adding my Jadam nutes along the way will be enough to keep up with its nute needs. I am getting more stretch on it than I've ever gotten before and the color still looks good so, so far, things look promising.

I had to rearrange things a bit to fit the new extra bucket and haven't figured out how I'll reference it, but it's been planted with a bean seed and a canna seed temporarily.

Finally, I've been monkeying around with my bubble cloner as two of the four cuts had wilted over and I noticed I wasn't getting great bubble coverage on the water surface so I tried a couple of different configurations and hopefully have found that will work.

I'm trying to do it in one of my ubiquitous take out containers but that's a pretty small diameter to work with and finding airstones to fit and give good coverage is a challenge. If it doesn't work as I want I'll probably try to find a slightly larger container and try again as I can see where this setup has great promise.

I put the latest change in right before closing up, so I'll see how things look in the morning.

 

[Azimuth]

 JMS JFS(?)

I'm trying something new with my Jadam extracts. JMS (Jadam Microbial Solution) is made with water, microbes and some food for the microbes in the form of a starch, potato flakes in my case. It is used or applied at the peak of the expanded microbial population as suggested by peak bubbles.

@Gee64 has mentioned in another thread about how the myco fungus connects with the roots and helps with processing of phosphorus in flower but that it needs to be well established early otherwise it can easily get outcompeted by the bacterial microbes in which case it struggles to be as effective as it should be later on.

So, I've taken to watering my veg pots with my FAA (Fish Amino Acid) which is more fungal dominant than my other Jadam Liquid Fertilizers to help that process along.

In thinking about it, I wondered if I could jumpstart the fungal growth by making a fungal version of my JMS, so I've started a test to see.

I'm using water, a nugget of leaf mold from my leaf mold processing barrel in place of my worm castings, and my FAA as a food source in place of the potato flakes to see if I can propagate the fungal microbes to assist in proliferating them.

If it works I'll have a Jadam Fungal Solution loaded with extra fungi to give a fungal boost to early vegging plants, and then maybe I'll try it on my most recent leaf barrel to see if I can speed up the making of my leaf mold.

 

[Gee64]

 JMS JFS(?)

I'm trying something new with my Jadam extracts. JMS (Jadam Microbial Solution) is made with water, microbes and some food for the microbes in the form of a starch, potato flakes in my case. It is applied at the peak of the expanded microbial population as suggested by peak bubbles.

@Gee64 has mentioned in another thread about how the myco fungus helps with processing the phosphorus in flower but that it needs to be well established early otherwise it can easily get outcompeted by the bacterial microbes in which case it struggles to be as effective as it should be later on.

So, I've taken to watering my veg pots with my FAA (Fish Amino Acid) which is more fungal dominant than my other Jadam Liquid Fertilizers to help that process along.

In thinking about it, I wondered if I could jumpstart the fungal growth by making a fungal version of my JMS, so I've started a test to see.

I'm using water, a nugget of leaf mold from my leaf mold processing barrel in place of my worm castings, and my FAA as a food source in place of the potato flakes to see if I can propagate the fungal microbes to assist in proliferating them.

If it works I'll have a Jadam Fungal Solution loaded with extra fungi to give a fungal boost to early vegging plants, and then maybe I'll try it on my most recent leaf barrel to see if I can speed up the making of my leaf mold.

This is a very cool experiment.
Microbes generally will raise ph and fungal generally will lower ph, so if you get your soil loaded with both in a good ph range you probably have balance. Its not that you need tons of fungii its more that it needs to be established, and then fed the whole grow.

I start fish ferts in the seedling solo cup but usually no microbes until the veg pot, and thats only what the ewc in the global mix dictates, and topdressing starts.

Later in veg after I see good roots I will use a microbe tea and then again at final uppot just as stretch starts.

If the plant looks sluggish it may get a myco drench or another tea.

I think you could KNF/Jadam the crap out of that, just keep calcium and magnesium in mind. If you feed your plant and it starts to rev it needs more cal and mag to raise the current AND as nutrition. Just be gentle with it.

 

[Azimuth]

This is a very cool experiment.
Microbes generally will raise ph and fungal generally will lower ph, so if you get your soil loaded with both in a good ph range you probably have balance. Its not that you need tons of fungii its more that it needs to be established, and then fed the whole grow.

I start fish ferts in the seedling solo cup but usually no microbes until the veg pot, and thats only what the ewc in the global mix dictates, and topdressing starts.

Later in veg after I see good roots I will use a microbe tea and then again at final uppot just as stretch starts.

If the plant looks sluggish it may get a myco drench or another tea.

I think you could KNF/Jadam the crap out of that, just keep calcium and magnesium in mind. If you feed your plant and it starts to rev it needs more cal and mag to raise the current AND as nutrition. Just be gentle with it.

I've started adding my calcium water to my daily misting of the mulch layer/soil surface so that's a tiny bit of Ca, often. I've been doing it that way for about a week and so far, no ill effects (which is my opening standard for my tests in that I'm trying not to kill my plants ).

Then if no harm done, the next judgement is whether I note if there was any improvement.

I don't yet have a frame of reference for application amounts since these are all DIY inputs.

if you get your soil loaded with both in a good ph range you probably have balance.

I use my DIY leaf mold as the base (50%) of my mix, and I saw a video once of a commercial composting facility where the outputs for various mixes were tested. They had all kinds of combinations from kitchen scraps, to yard wastes, and the pile of pure leaf mold was tested to be about 50/50 fungal/bacterial, so I'm assuming my base is a fairly balanced mix from the jump.

-----

By the way, Gee's experiment thread The Gee Spot -You Finally Found It is a good follow for some great background knowledge on how the various elements of an organic grow work together.

 

[Azimuth]

Microbes generally will raise ph and fungal generally will lower ph, so if you get your soil loaded with both in a good ph range you probably have balance. Its not that you need tons of fungii its more that it needs to be established, and then fed the whole grow.

Maybe I should add both my FAA (fungal)  and my JLF nutes (bacterial) at each feeding in veg, using half strength rates of each and provide that balance each time.

I do something similar in flower as I give 2/3 veg mix plus 1/3 fruit and flower to try to up the P and K and reducing the others because of the ratios.

 

[Gee64]

I've started adding my calcium water to my daily misting of the mulch layer/soil surface so that's a tiny bit of Ca, often. I've been doing it that way for about a week and so far, no ill effects (which is my opening standard for my tests in that I'm trying not to kill my plants ).

Then if no harm done, the next judgement is whether I note if there was any improvement.

I don't yet have a frame of reference for application amounts since these are all DIY inputs.


I use my DIY leaf mold as the base (50%) of my mix, and I saw a video once of a commercial composting facility where the outputs for various mixes were tested. They had all kinds of combinations from kitchen scraps, to yard wastes, and the pile of pure leaf mold was tested to be about 50/50 fungal/bacterial, so I'm assuming my base is a fairly balanced mix from the jump.

-----

By the way, Gee's experiment thread The Gee Spot -You Finally Found It is a good follow for some great background knowledge on how the various elements of an organic grow work together.

Oh I think your base is pretty good yup

Thats a beauty carbon source. Lots of horsepower in there.

Your potions should show fairly quick effects.

Have you soil ph'd your fully finished mold?

Does it look like rich soil or still a bit more like a leaf mulch?

 

[Bode]

Highya Azimuth, guys,

Great discussion going on here! I'm interested in how the fungal aspect can aid plants grow, along with microbes. I was very surprised about 1 thing! Last year all my plants (cannabis and others) grew much better than before! The only difference was adding JMS weekly. So much more growth! Then I realized part way through, the growth was burning through nutrients way faster than before. I had to ammend the soil with organic supplements. Just surprised, because I've never supplenented before, and they seemed okay. This year, way more bud, more tomatoes, beets, etc. I'm wondering if the fungal aspect will improve even more! Happy Smokin'

 

[Gee64]

Azi, is there a potion in your repertoire that will help clones root? Root and excel until uppotting.

 

[Azimuth]

Azi, is there a potion in your repertoire that will help clones root? Root and excel until uppotting.

Seaweed, willow, and aloe are the ones I would/do use.