Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

scottreid1966 said:
The dandy-lion tea is a KNF sugar extract. It's why I calculate from my notes I took. The container I bought basically says that it will take 20 gal. of water to evacuate what's in the container.
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Ok, then yes, correct. 5-7 T for the 20 gallons. :thumb:

scottreid1966 said:
Sorry if I am making your head swim. Just trying to learn your specialty.
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Nope. No worries. I thought it was a Jadam extract, but you're good. Just wanted to be sure we were both on the same page.
 
Today, at about three weeks, I topped the new SIP seedling. I waited for the 5th node to start up, removed node #1 and topped just above node #2. The growth points on the second node were long enough to attach weights to so I started that training as well.

I found the stem to be hollow which is a new one on me. Like drinking straw hollow. I poked around this site and found generally positive comments on this condition so I'm not going to worry about it and I'll see how long the top opening takes to close up (I'm assuming it will?).

I stuck the top in a glass of water until I determine what I'm going to do with it, although I did chop 'n drop the leaves and grow points from the third node on top of the soil. This is a super healthy plant so I want to recycle those resources back to the plant. Kind of like my crumble idea just with fresh, as opposed to dried, material.

This will mess up my perpetual grow cycle as it won't be ready to be put into flower mid month to replace the plant I just harvested but, them's the breaks.

The growth on this plant has been a bit ridiculous compared to my previous plants, but lots of things are different so who knows what are the primary driving factors. It's a new strain, it's a seedling, and it's in a new version of my 2G SIP. Probably a bunch of factors all coming together.

Another good reminder for me though of why I like to grow from clones where the nodal spacing is tighter and the plants are a bit less robust. In my tight quarters tigher nodal spacing is important.

So, I'll take clones of it for sure but am still planning on flowering it next in my cycle.
 
013 said:
whoops meant to post in your bud rot & mold VS microbes thread….

i moved the post to the proper thread - sorry for early AM brain fart
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No worries @013 . Glad to have you here as well.
 
Just looked at the top I took off the seedling. Day 23 and I have pre-flowers at node 4. Never really paid any attention to them before but it seems pretty early for that. :hmmmm:
 
Azimuth said:
Just looked at the top I took off the seedling. Day 23 and I have pre-flowers at node 4. Never really paid any attention to them before but it seems pretty early for that. :hmmmm:
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Sí.
 
I decided to do a bit of a root autopsy on the side-by-side 1L SIP plants I recently harvested.

One was my "gravel bed" version, which was essentially the reservoir filled with hydroton clay balls to a bit above the drain hole, and the other, the "cave" structure which mimics the bucket-in-bucket design with the central connector pot and the larger reservoir.

I'm going to let them dry more to see if I can tease the soil out and better compare the root structure but I have some preliminary take aways I thought I share.

First the harvest weights were essentially identical so either design in the end worked very well. I did have an N issue midway through veg on the gravel version so that one stalled out for I think 2-3 weeks while I worked on a solution so that very well may have held that version back in harvest weight.

The gravel bed version had very dense and fine feeder roots essentially from maybe an inch below the top all the way through the hydroton to the very bottom, and looks like that's probably true of the interior of the pot as well. I may cut the rootball in half vertically and see.

The cave structure roots seem to be a mixture of feeder roots and water seeking roots and are no where as thick as the cave version. You'll recall early on in the grow I was surprised at how the initial roots found the connector pot ok but putzed around for a while before making their way into the water itself. The roots eventually populated that connector pot and short bits did sneak out of the drainage holes a bit into the reservoir area but did not extend much into it.

I was surprised by this as I kept the reservoir in both filled every day after the first three weeks or so and thought I'd see a bit of a hydro root-thing going on. But, not so much.

----

And now, for the larger 2G bucket versions that have now made it to flower, I modified the designs a bit.

The first two are the bucket-in-bucket design (cave structure) again albeit all within a single bucket because of height constraints (I built a false floor from a bucket lid to separate the soil from the reservoir and fed the connector pot down through it).

The next two are closer to the Commercial version that @Buds Buddy is using. For these I'm using either food storage containers or pasta strainers inverted to serve as a dome to keep soil out of the air and water reservoir. I have the fill tubes going right into these domes/voids.

The first plant in the second (dome) version is only in veg and I can't see the roots in these buckets like I can with my 1L take-out containers but I think I'm having the same issues with roots as I did before. The dome version plant seems to be drinking more and sooner that the bucket-in-bucket design, but I won't know until the current veg plant gets harvested, and that's looking like year-end at best.

The dome version is also easier to build with fewer parts and only needs a single bucket so is a more efficient design. On these, like the commercial version, the soil drapes down around the dome and sits in the water. I was concerned about my organic mix going anaerobic sitting in the water all the time so I built a version of this in a 1L version and I don't seem to be having any issues after a few weeks.

Assuming this continues, I wonder if I would be able to feed my liquid KNF and Jadam extractions via the reservoir since the microbes needed for delivery will be in the soil sitting right there in the water. That will be something I'll test in the 1L version in the coming weeks.

In conclusion, I am very pleased with the above ground results from both versions but think the dome version is where I'll probably stay. It is easier to build, gives a better feeder root structure and may give me the ability to feed with my extraction fertilizers.

But either way, these things rock!
 
Azimuth said:
I decided to do a bit of a root autopsy on the side-by-side 1L SIP plants I recently harvested.

One was my "gravel bed" version, which was essentially the reservoir filled with hydroton clay balls to a bit above the drain hole, and the other, the "cave" structure which mimics the bucket-in-bucket design with the central connector pot and the larger reservoir.

I'm going to let them dry more to see if I can tease the soil out and better compare the root structure but I have some preliminary take aways I thought I share.

First the harvest weights were essentially identical so either design in the end worked very well. I did have an N issue midway through veg on the gravel version so that one stalled out for I think 2-3 weeks while I worked on a solution so that very well may have held that version back in harvest weight.

The gravel bed version had very dense and fine feeder roots essentially from maybe an inch below the top all the way through the hydroton to the very bottom, and looks like that's probably true of the interior of the pot as well. I may cut the rootball in half vertically and see.

The cave structure roots seem to be a mixture of feeder roots and water seeking roots and are no where as thick as the cave version. You'll recall early on in the grow I was surprised at how the initial roots found the connector pot ok but putzed around for a while before making their way into the water itself. The roots eventually populated that connector pot and short bits did sneak out of the drainage holes a bit into the reservoir area but did not extend much into it.

I was surprised by this as I kept the reservoir in both filled every day after the first three weeks or so and thought I'd see a bit of a hydro root-thing going on. But, not so much.

----

And now, for the larger 2G bucket versions that have now made it to flower, I modified the designs a bit.

The first two are the bucket-in-bucket design (cave structure) again albeit all within a single bucket because of height constraints (I built a false floor from a bucket lid to separate the soil from the reservoir and fed the connector pot down through it).

The next two are closer to the Commercial version that @Buds Buddy is using. For these I'm using either food storage containers or pasta strainers inverted to serve as a dome to keep soil out of the air and water reservoir. I have the fill tubes going right into these domes/voids.

The first plant in the second (dome) version is only in veg and I can't see the roots in these buckets like I can with my 1L take-out containers but I think I'm having the same issues with roots as I did before. The dome version plant seems to be drinking more and sooner that the bucket-in-bucket design, but I won't know until the current veg plant gets harvested, and that's looking like year-end at best.

The dome version is also easier to build with fewer parts and only needs a single bucket so is a more efficient design. On these, like the commercial version, the soil drapes down around the dome and sits in the water. I was concerned about my organic mix going anaerobic sitting in the water all the time so I built a version of this in a 1L version and I don't seem to be having any issues after a few weeks.

Assuming this continues, I wonder if I would be able to feed my liquid KNF and Jadam extractions via the reservoir since the microbes needed for delivery will be in the soil sitting right there in the water. That will be something I'll test in the 1L version in the coming weeks.

In conclusion, I am very pleased with the above ground results from both versions but think the dome version is where I'll probably stay. It is easier to build, gives a better feeder root structure and may give me the ability to feed with my extraction fertilizers.

But either way, these things rock!
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Well described, my friend! Now get a freakin' camera.... :rofl: My addled brain do it alone. lol

My home-made doesnt seem to be drinking from the bottom but the girls are as robust as they can be.

Getting too busy to dick around with it. Already started the trim and cure of my 2 indoor girls and getting ready for the 4 monsters outside... Well, 2 are, the other 2 had less sun.:rolleyes:

Congrats on the success. Keep up the good works.

Cheers!
 
scottreid1966 said:
My home-made doesnt seem to be drinking from the bottom but the girls are as robust as they can be.
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That's because you didn't build a SIP. What you're doing is actually a bit cruel to your plants. You set up a water source they can look at, can smell, but can't taste. Like you set up a dessert shop next to a diet center and locked the door. :rofl:

In your design, you need a connector pot. Here's a video that shows what I mean.

My latest design is a bit different and easier to build. With your's the way it is you'll have to water with the wet/dry cycle to max out the grow.
 
scottreid1966 said:
My middle ring must be filled with dirt... I can do that! Yay! :yahoo:
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Make sure to pack it in well for the wicking action. Much denser than you would normally do. You don't want it slip sliding away every time you water.
 
I survived the move, haleluyah.
The light bulb is coming on that I should post advancements in my own thread... lol.
 
Azimuth said:
Congrats on the move!
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Thank you, Azi! Your help is great! I am so glad to hear your SIPs are working out! I hope I can get some time to understand your thoughts as to why the new version is so much superior to the old one.
Thanks again!
 
Azimuth said:
Make sure to pack it in well for the wicking action. Much denser than you would normally do. You don't want it slip sliding away every time you water.
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They seem to be doing fine but still aren't drinking from the bottom much too much, but drinking all the same.


IMG_20221018_183825_resized_20221018_063851082.jpg


At least now I can lift them onto my tray for a good bottom manicure. My last grow is way too bushy and larfy.

All in all, nice grow anyways.

Cheers!
 
scottreid1966 said:
They seem to be doing fine but still aren't drinking from the bottom much too much, but drinking all the same.


IMG_20221018_183825_resized_20221018_063851082.jpg


At least now I can lift them onto my tray for a good bottom manicure. My last grow is way too bushy and larfy.

All in all, nice grow anyways.

Cheers!
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My plants have all taken a couple of weeks to transition as the roots need to morph to work in a wetter environment. Are you watering from above as well?
 
You should let it be. Let it get its water from below.
 
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