Pheno's Perpetual: Ocean Grown Dark Plasma, Other Top Shelf TBD, Breeding For THC-V

PSI in AA is who I've used. I was doing some vending with one of the dispensary in that area and it was a requirement. Anyway the garden is looking great! Kickflip is kickin butt :)
Thanks! Ya thats who I planned to use also, thats awesome. They just said drop on by lol. (can't mail it) im only 1.5 hrs away. Im right on the river at Jefferson, Wyandotte.
 
Pheno some nice looking plants you have there. Getting to be monsters.

I like a little more node spacing and a taller plant but thats just me. I've found more space is better for air flow and light penetration. Yields are of course lower somewhat but I'll take that when I'm at the trim table. That node spacing is GREAT when I'm trimming. Some of my best weed I've ever grown had lots of space between the nodes.


The question is on flush, dawned on me after a 3 week flush and still needed months to cure for some, what the heck is the problem.

Not a hydro expert. I thought you hydro guys flushed to clean out your pipes and buckets??

The way to smoother taste is getting the plant to use up all the chlorophyll she has stored up in the leaves. I'm GUESSING that in a hydro setup you stop with the nutrients and use water only for several weeks prior to harvest??

The plant will use up stored energy going down the stretch. In hydro I can see that working. The only effect I see it having on taste is that the plants are using up chlorophyll in the plant. That I could see helping with a smoother tasting smoke.

In soil, the nutrients bond with the soil medium on a chemical/atomic level and the roots uptake as needed. Cation exchange is the process.

AS soon as some sort of soil medium is used that's when the chemical bond takes place with fertilizers and soil, flushing with water wont change those chemical bonds. And it wont have any effect on nutrients already in the plant itself. Roots will still have access to those chemically bonded nutrients in the soil medium.

Translocation only happens INSIDE the plant. A plant will not translocate stored nutrients from inside the plant out its roots and into the soil. The plant will output plant root exudate to help the microbes that are in the rhizosphere.

Root exudate and translocation are 2 different plant processes.

I think the question now is; what amount of plant root exudate can the plant output using up stored energy. What effect does that have on the plant (in question).

It MAY get down to:

"Relationships between leaf and root traits in shaping plant resource‐use strategies"


We just entered into the realm of the unknown and un-studied as it relates to cannabis and way way above my pay grade.

Lets just got with there's no science to back up any benefit to flushing growing medium (even in hydro).

Here's a fairly sciencey read on some research done on plant exudate as it relates to plant energy use.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.4383

I found section 4.2 to be of particular interest.

Flushing/starving/soil/soil-less/roots and leaves and how plants use energy. This is the real question.

How does what we do in the grow room affect the plants use of energy?

I try and mimic nature as close as I can, hope for the best and LITFA. :cool:

Oh and wait for the pest onslaught, becuase if it hasn't happened it's about to.
 
Pheno some nice looking plants you have there. Getting to be monsters.

I like a little more node spacing and a taller plant but thats just me. I've found more space is better for air flow and light penetration. Yields are of course lower somewhat but I'll take that when I'm at the trim table. That node spacing is GREAT when I'm trimming. Some of my best weed I've ever grown had lots of space between the nodes.




Not a hydro expert. I thought you hydro guys flushed to clean out your pipes and buckets??

The way to smoother taste is getting the plant to use up all the chlorophyll she has stored up in the leaves. I'm GUESSING that in a hydro setup you stop with the nutrients and use water only for several weeks prior to harvest??

The plant will use up stored energy going down the stretch. In hydro I can see that working. The only effect I see it having on taste is that the plants are using up chlorophyll in the plant. That I could see helping with a smoother tasting smoke.

In soil, the nutrients bond with the soil medium on a chemical/atomic level and the roots uptake as needed. Cation exchange is the process.

AS soon as some sort of soil medium is used that's when the chemical bond takes place with fertilizers and soil, flushing with water wont change those chemical bonds. And it wont have any effect on nutrients already in the plant itself. Roots will still have access to those chemically bonded nutrients in the soil medium.

Translocation only happens INSIDE the plant. A plant will not translocate stored nutrients from inside the plant out its roots and into the soil. The plant will output plant root exudate to help the microbes that are in the rhizosphere.

Root exudate and translocation are 2 different plant processes.

I think the question now is; what amount of plant root exudate can the plant output using up stored energy. What effect does that have on the plant (in question).

It MAY get down to:

"Relationships between leaf and root traits in shaping plant resource‐use strategies"


We just entered into the realm of the unknown and un-studied as it relates to cannabis and way way above my pay grade.

Lets just got with there's no science to back up any benefit to flushing growing medium (even in hydro).

Here's a fairly sciencey read on some research done on plant exudate as it relates to plant energy use.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.4383

I found section 4.2 to be of particular interest.

Flushing/starving/soil/soil-less/roots and leaves and how plants use energy. This is the real question.

How does what we do in the grow room affect the plants use of energy?

I try and mimic nature as close as I can, hope for the best and LITFA. :cool:

Oh and wait for the pest onslaught, becuase if it hasn't happened it's about to.

Very good information!

Thank you so much!
I love learning this stuff and learning more about ppl and their drives.

I have dealt with the bugs a bit, the current IPM is OK.
I do a weekly neem/detergent in veg, if I see pests before flower, I have twice alternated between alcohol and water then 2 days then neem/detergent for about 1.5 to 2 weeks before flower and knock on wood.
I've heard a long time indoor grower whom I respect very much say there is no excuse for bugs indoors unless you want them there...which in my case I would say is true in only that I could be more cautious with the pets, stop growing entirely until they aren't by the tent...or build out a grow in numerous places.
It will happen but is on hold till spring as I'm tapering from an opiate pain killer at a rapid rate that i've taken for 10 years, my goal is to be on Cannabis only come March 21.
Makes my time right now, all 6 hrs a day so valuable lol.

I am slightly a hypochondriac so switching to hydro was in part due to that.
Im slowly accepting microbes :) but imagine that I will run both an organic outdoor / greenhouse with my indoor hydro. I imagine it will be a sight to see, some big ass tattood goon screeming like a sissy, gloves on and all :) No it's the ones I cannot see that scare me. Worms, bigger bugs etc no worries.

Nature is outside, so my thinking is I brought them into my environment, lemme do my best to see how well they perform without outside pressure.
Since we have no natural environment where the universe is not trying it's best to kill my plants, most ppl look outside of course to nature, the danger is in the assumption nature can do it better.

Evolution is proof a Nature's fallibility, and that it KNOW'S it's fallible! -Me 2018

I'm a tree huggin pagan, but if a spider wants to share my space he's mistaken.

I truly appreciate the information as I'm trying to better understand how to achieve the smoothest smoke!

Edit: Wanted to add, please anyone coming across this thread take a few minutes to explore the linked article. Very informative indeed!
 
Man this Kickflip by SquareOneGenetics is killing it in my garden.

Look at this number 3, The first three popped were girls I have 2 more, let's look first at the frost on the number 3 then compare leaves, later comparing taste/effect/frost of the three distinct leaf types.

In order it's frosty 3 bud then 3 clone leaves, super serrated. Then 4 then 5 each progressively getting more indica looking.
The number 1 in flower is hybrid in appearance just like the number 3.




 
Oh and all three side by side, I hope it wasn't cropped out on the edges too much.
 
Well the guy I got those cuts from kept flaking out on me - he was going through some things, lost his dog around the time my neice from my Sister upstairs passed and I was very understanding for quite a while, brought him prerolls to his work, gave him meds when he was out and I took those cuts in exchange to return him a copy but he would never come get them... Started to completely ignore me and I don't play that game. I am sorry and know I should be the bigger person but respect is huge. Just tell me you can't talk. Don't ignore me, cmon.
... and long story long, I just couldn't take on more depression/drama and get outta mine so cut ties with him for now.
I hope he gets better. When he does I can take him a cut of whatever he likes.
... To keep things on the up I'm about to cull 12 plants and fill the cloner with cuts... But the last couple rotted in the collars so I'm paranoid a bit. I do have my bigger copies too but I finally have a perpetual system in place after 20 pages lol.
They are getting rootbound in cups, my keepers are all upotted to 1gals, full and going up to 3 gallon this afternoon hopefully, they will have 30 days to veg in the garage where it's a bit colder at night. High 60s. Day temps are low 70s so not the best veg scenario... Space heater keeps them alive. This will work out so they aren't too big come flower time in 4 to 5 weeks.
I kept one of everything and the next run will be like my autoflower run, many strains and breeders, rope and ride em mayhem in the cold dry winter... Man, I gotta try for another tent/ballast.
We have a drying tent on the way. I would love to make the 5x5 a veg tent and get a 4x8 for flower. Makes more sense trying to pheno hunt and breed to have the room.
Maybe I should take a trip and give the cuts away to someone mmmp? Well anyone close enough by is welcome of course to a cut of anything I have right now. Just quarantine and inspect well would hate for anything bad to come from me.

Anyway, hope you all have a great Sunday. Gotta get going on these girls lost an hour.
 
So happy I subbed up to this thread a while back. Awesome info on flushing bobrown! Im getting ready to harvest my first perlite hempy plants and was thinking a 2 week flush would do. I've always thought in soil the length and quality of the curing process would have a bigger affect on the taste of the buds tho. Amazing garden phenoman! Super crazy frosty! I'll definitely be tuning in more often!
 
So happy I subbed up to this thread a while back. Awesome info on flushing bobrown! Im getting ready to harvest my first perlite hempy plants and was thinking a 2 week flush would do. I've always thought in soil the length and quality of the curing process would have a bigger affect on the taste of the buds tho. Amazing garden phenoman! Super crazy frosty! I'll definitely be tuning in more often!
Hey glad to here from you my friend! Yes there is a lot going on in an organic "flush" so glad he dropped that on my thread.
In nature I have heard the cold weather slows metabolic rate in microbes in the earth which is what signals the fall fade type process of cannabalization. Sounds like I was almost there.
 
Temps have an effect on microbes but prolly not how we think they do. You would think they go slower. Likely just different microbes live better at certain temps. Microbes are literally everywhere on earth. Tops of the highest mtns and btm of the deepest oceans and everywhere in between.

Ratio of microbes to human cells in humans is 10:1 for every 1 human cell there are 10 microbes.

Drama sucks.... try to avoid.

Your fans look like Indica leaning hybrids. Mighty healthy looking ones at that.
 
So happy I subbed up to this thread a while back. Awesome info on flushing bobrown! Im getting ready to harvest my first perlite hempy plants and was thinking a 2 week flush would do. I've always thought in soil the length and quality of the curing process would have a bigger affect on the taste of the buds tho. Amazing garden phenoman! Super crazy frosty! I'll definitely be tuning in more often!

With Hempy I would do just plain water for a couple weeks? man....so want to try a hempy bucket. soon as I can spring for the perlite (after a new bulb etc) I will do it, promise. How'd it go? I'm heading over to see...

Temps have an effect on microbes but prolly not how we think they do. You would think they go slower. Likely just different microbes live better at certain temps. Microbes are literally everywhere on earth. Tops of the highest mtns and btm of the deepest oceans and everywhere in between.

Ratio of microbes to human cells in humans is 10:1 for every 1 human cell there are 10 microbes.

Drama sucks.... try to avoid.

Your fans look like Indica leaning hybrids. Mighty healthy looking ones at that.

Thanks! ,
Ya these are more Indica leaners compared to the 2 in flower by a long shot, will be interesting to see them through and if ones a girl of course, though one looks...wait for it. Male! but we know I'm 0% correct predicting males so it's likely a tall lanky fire ass female that is hell to grow and heaven to smoke lol...

I love that way of looking at microbes bobrown, they are everywhere and unless you run bleach or H202 (even then likely something) there are microbes. I've heard some microbes change morphology due to temp but not metabolism, others die, some thrive in either spectrum.
I've KNOWN this forever, but for whatever reason refused to consider it that way in gardening. Don't get me wrong in a general way I know a temp of 68f in hydro is good for oxygen content and keeping anaerobic bacteria at bay by disallowing an overgrowth of the baddies over the bennies. Hugely oversimplified. But it's the fade and dying process that I harbored a misunderstanding.
It's easier to say, in the fall the microlife dies out, causing fade than to explain to the layman what is going on but I think it's important that we do take a little time and explain because what we are doing in a living soil isn't adding only what we want, shit get's in there regardless. The goal is to keep the ones we like happy and abundant and the ones we don't at bay.
They are always there.
Same in us.
We can bacterial and fungal overgrowths in our digestive systems of bad bacteria that cause all sort of mayhem like H.Pylori for example.

BTW MICHIGAN LEGALIZED IT LAST NIGHT!!! Wooot Woot!! I'm so glad to be home:)
We can carry 2.5 oz freely, sell to each other freely and everyone can grow 12 plants. Starts in about 10 days but storefronts won't be open for about a year so that gives me time to line up a business and without care get rid of overage to ppl without a card. I'm doing it guys...full steam ahead.

Try my own hand at first order, high end, cannasour, hard to find, Dr. Grinspoon type strains. Just like ppl pay for great spirits, so shall they for great weed:)
 
Congrats Pheno on going legal!
Thanks! This opens many doors for us here!
Instead of a ServiceNow Software Consultant I could consult to all the new growers that will be emerging, or run a grow if my business fails.
I am obsessive and when I spent my day coding if I hit a block, I was researching cannabis and on this forum. Like 40+ hrs a week research and 6 grows under my belt. I think i'm qualified?
Besides in my other day job I was required to always answer an unknown with something like, "I haven't dealt with that issue before, Let me grab so and so, a Subject Matter Expert to get his opinion and get back to you tomorrow". Or something like that. Transparency is key and in today's world you cannot know everything. We've shifted our brains from Memorizing animals to Routing animals :) It's more efficient to know where to find the data and how to manipulate it than it is to memorize it and Google is making a huge jump in the way our minds work....Damn introspective...got off track lol.

PW, YOU would be the man for that job actually!
Sheesh, you would likely be the SME that I would contact anyway :rofl:

If I could quantify your help in money I'm sure i'd owe you big, but in the medication saved alone I owe you for the mitigation of my pain and the ability to finally dump the pharmaceuticals...priceless.

So ya,
Everyone gets 12 plants??!
Loosest law in the country I think.
I have plans to do some outdoor, need to research the law but at least here in Wayne it looks to be pretty loose. this was also a county that voted heavy on the yes side.
I was worried for a minute!
I'm going to do autos outdoor starting in spring for sure, plan to run at least a few photos this year either outside or in a cheap greenhouse type thing.
Man PW I want you to be able to enjoy this but you have some awesome project going on that I'm hugely envious of so I'm sure you are plenty busy my friend.

Sorry for the book, been meaning to ask how those 2 quantum boards worked out and how much room they cover? Trying to outfit a 4x8 and running multiple strains maybe the HLG550 isn't the way to go...

Thanks again! Have a wonderful day!
 
Times are changing for the good here in Michigan! Hopefully you are having a good day pheno
It's awesome, state will be in much better shape soon enough!
Thanks and I know it's late but hope your day went well also!
 
Hey I'm thinking Cobs would be cheaper fro a larger area. It takes 3 of the HLG 260w kits to cover my my 4x4. Maybe 2 of the HLG 550's would cover the 4x8.
Ya that may be better, haven't heard much
In fact, likely the ChilLED Puck Cob replacement type thing from ChilLed tech and sold at RapidLed with the substrate for a 4x4. Chilled Logic 4' x 4' LED Grow Kit
Ya 2 -550s and call it a day was the original plan but now with all these mismatched size genetics... considered the boards was having multiple height adjustment per 4x4 square, but for the cost i'll guess we'll see where we end up.
I consider right now a 550 the very baseline of a proper "pro" space 4x4-5x5 LED light in 2018 and for the kits they are cheap really.
 
Ya I have been drooling over the 550 a while now.

Man, so some possible bad news. Im still 30 days from harvest and think I got root aphids.

I thought originally some seriously hearty fungus gnats but saw the larvae and crawlers today. This would explain the odd growths, and possibly my stubby plants aren't stubby... Just under attack before I treated with BTI (Misquito Bits) which relieved pressure enough to get me this far.

My concern is that there are a lot of crawlers all of a sudden and an infestation now could hurt bad I think? They don't hurt the buds directly but munching the roots ain't good.

What's the best treatment? Azamax or botanicide? Any ideas are appreciated. I am getting traps to interrupt adults.

Thanks in advance!!
 
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