Outdoor Organic Balcony Stealth Quadlining: White Widow/Gorgonzola
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- #102
That is a bummer when jar/s of bud go moldy, can't let up eh, so many steps along the way to trip on and mess up the result.
Great you had a positive experience growing out the S-1 seeds, that is good to know. I guess if the genetics did happen to degenerate over successive breedings it probably could be avoided with using just a couple of colas to pollinate and the resulting several hundred seeds would/should last many years.
Yes, seedbanks have vested interest in saying that, so I am naturally cynical on those claims.
That seems really brave of you ordering regular seeds this year when having the choice of feminized. Mine are only regular as that was all I had, seeds saved from previous grows. Altho now, I do have some feminized seeds for the next season. From reading though, it does sound like regular seeds are more stable/reliable, but you have to accommodate the unwanted males on your resources until you can identify them to get rid of them. From this season's grow where I have closely watched the development of the preflowers on my regular seeded plants (via a few thousand node closeups), I could be pretty certain I think from 1 month - 6 weeks, of the gender, but that requires lots of node closeups that are sharp and clear, because on some nodes the preflower is more advanced and is clearer to see than other preflowers on the same plant which if you only looked at a couple it may not be so evident if time is of the essence. But that is interesting you choosing to go with regular seeds.
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- #103
I have only Quadlined this season, last year I was Fluxing, but I am enjoying the increased growth that I seem to be getting over last year's outdoor Fluxing grow. So, you doing 8 arms, that will be very interesting how that goes. I presume the more horizontal you can train her the more cola heads you will get.I have taken a fancy to this training. 20+ main colas! Yes please
I'm new to this so hopefully you don't mind... what do you think?
OCTOLINE
Hexaline
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
To me the quadlining/fluxing is too much work, especially if I pop regular seeds. My grow is a stealth grow like yours but the height restriction is not as limiting. I can have plants up to 1.5 or even 2 meters, provided I plan ahead of time where in my grow space they will be located. I prefer about 1.3 meters, that makes the perfect grow.
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
That seems really brave of you ordering regular seeds this year when having the choice of feminized. ...
For me it is a lot simpler now to grow out regular seed than it used to be.
Why was it complicated? I used to take my outdoor seedlings (regular seed) at about 6 weeks when they were mature enough and bring them into a light-tight dark room for 12 hours each day, just to force them to flower. This was a lot of work, toting the 15 gal pots in and out of the house at the appointed hour on the minute. The first time I did that, after the girls were identified, I then stupidly left the males standing around at the other end of space, about 30 feet away, for a week or two before I got around to physically removing them. During which time they sent out their pollen... So I had lots of seeds after all... and thus I, Emeraldo, defeated my own plan of growing sinsemilla.
So you are right, there are reasons to consider it brave. Or stupid, haha. Good reasons to go with feminized seed. If you are not brave (or stupid) enough, haha. I guess I just like to feel in control, and with fem seeds the mother has always been stressed, always a lingering feeling like something unexpected can happen because of the intervention into the normal natural seed growth. Maybe that's all in my imagination. I admit I worry about the possibility of hermies happening, so for me it's less a matter of being brave with regulars than trying to avoid the instability that you know might be there. Maybe it's just ignorance on my part, I don't know enough about how they make feminized seed even though I've been growing them for years.
Now I don't get stressed about regular, and I don't do all that toting work, it is just a matter of watching them develop and interceding at the right moment. I guess I just like the knowledge that I am growing a regular healthy female that can produce normal seed and that most likely won't herm on me unless she gets lots of stress. Some strains, like most of what GHS sells, are only feminized, like Arjan's Haze #1 and Arjan's Strawberry Haze, so since I wanted those strains I had to go with feminized. Also I like the opportunity regular seed give to dabble in "breeding" and growing a few seeds.
Also, it's nice to keep those regular skills active, not getting too complacent with these feminized seed. A real farmer, not some femmy balcony grower, hehe. Seed machismo.
MrX
Well-Known Member
coming along as good as it gets, you are doing it right by those plants!I decided to do another foliar feed today, I didn't include worm wee this time. In 1 liter of dechlorinated water I added 2ml of seaweed kelp concentrate and 2ml of fish hydroslate. I also added 3 drops of organic chemical free dishwashing liquid to act as a surfactant. After about 3 hours I took a Brix reading from 1-WW of about 13%. Unfortunately my camera doesn't capture the refractometer image with full contrast between the white and blue so it is a little washed out. However, I am encouraged with the reading as it has increased from 4 days ago when I did the first foliar feed and then got a Brix reading of about 10%. The 3 quadlined plants continue to look good to my eye, altho these are early days.
MrX
Well-Known Member
its possible the smoke as well as cloudy weather have effectively shortened the daylight hours to initiate flowering in your plants! the dust storms in my zone badly disrupted most of the budding plants i had going, only a few formed proper buds
MrX
Well-Known Member
its a bummer going to all that work & time to have it go male...thats reg seeds!Today is a real rush. I have given the chop to 1-WW, see pics below showing the Quadlined training structure.
Re the Auto, I have gently given a 420 Gorilla Glue Auto seed a light sanding and put in some water to soak.
I have added some Molasses and worm wee to a large water can to sit for a few hours then I will give a good watering to the 2 females and the now empty former container of 1-WW. I had to rush to chop all the leaves off and pull it out of the pot because there wasn't much time to do so without family noticing, altho my wife came in to scold me to close the balcony doors as the 'whole house smells of the plant', she has a very sensitive nose.
I intend to let the Gorilla Glue Auto seed soak for a few hours in water then I will plant it in 1-WW's former container, I will probably fix some bird netting over the top of the container to ensure birds wont peck and dig up the soil looking for worms/grubs and endanger the germinating seed. Hopefully by giving the container a good worm wee watering will allow it to keep sufficient moisture for the week ahead to germinate while I am not there to keep an eye on it.
The remaining suspected male, 4-WWG, I will most likely leave in it's pot and hide it amongst the hedge. I am sure it is a male too but I haven't yet had 'final confirmation', but I am interested to see what if any change will occur over the coming week. As I need to experience to learn how to correct deficiencies like the current Nitrogen deficiency that it has been showing. I'll give it the chop in a week, when it will be nice to check and find out if the top dressing with Blood and Bone helped or not. It is now 3 days after top dressing with Blood and Bone and it does look a tiny bit improved I think. We'll see in a week.
MrX
Well-Known Member
any splits or open wounds on your plants can be effectively sealed using this Bitumen Spray especially made for the task, it will keep infections/ants etc out, can be purchased from ebay.com.au or some Agri supply placesA split in 3rd node Quadlining knuckle of 3-WWG
Today, I thought maybe I would see if I could adjust the training ties a bit and attempt to level out the canopy of the 2 girls, which in my opinion aren't really too bad. But as I looked down on the task I noticed the bigger girl, the White Widow/Gorgonzola (3-WWG) in the larger 50 liter pot had split down it's 3rd node Quadlining knuckle. Looking back over my pictures, I can see now that there was a split appearing at that location yesterday.
Aside from the split, the plant appears uneffected. To me it is looking quite good, all things considering.
But now, what to do?
These plants are very hardy and currently it appears unaffected, quite happy, but the plant probably still has another 3 months to go until harvest. Do I leave it to heal naturally as I am fairly sure it would. Or attempt to bind up the split. If I bind it up, often people say to use Duct tape which to me is awfully sticky and when it is time to remove it I would be concerned of adhesion of the tape ripping the skin of the plant. However in this case I would imagine that any binding done would be left on for the life of the plant. The other alternative thought I had was to use a length of the plastic coated garden wire that I use for training the limbs, and wind that in a crisscross manner around and across the wound site to draw the 2 split sides partially or completely together and leave it on for the life of the plant.
If I bind it, I am wary about using any material that causes the stem to 'sweat' or hold water (like cloth ties) as when the buds come on I don't want any chance of it holding water and contributing to mold or budrot. For binding I would incline to choose the plastic coated garden wire.
If I don't bind it, the split shouldn't open too much more, as the branches are somewhat supported by the rim of the pot. Also, if I don't bind it, is it worth applying any 'medicine' to the split, not sure what??
It's step sister 2-WW is continuing to regain a healthier color after the Nitrogen amendment .
And the baby, 1-GGa appears fine at this early stage.
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- #110
Very interesting your thoughts around using regulars, and good points too. For me till now, I've had no choice. But in growing regulars, for me it is the limitations of space that make it a bit of a pain in having to kick off, say, twice as many seeds to allow for males. That is one thing, the other is once the genders can confidently be decided, for the outdoor season the 'prime' starting time of the season has come and gone. I had said previously that going on my experience with taking closeups over the plant's I felt I could tell this by 4 - 6 weeks. I should have said 6 - 8 weeks. So even after that amount of time has gone by, it is still possible to kick of late stage plants. There is a certain convenience to feminized seeds however I can appreciate now there are potential stability qualities that regulars bring.For me it is a lot simpler now to grow out regular seed than it used to be.
Why was it complicated? I used to take my outdoor seedlings (regular seed) at about 6 weeks when they were mature enough and bring them into a light-tight dark room for 12 hours each day, just to force them to flower. This was a lot of work, toting the 15 gal pots in and out of the house at the appointed hour on the minute. The first time I did that, after the girls were identified, I then stupidly left the males standing around at the other end of space, about 30 feet away, for a week or two before I got around to physically removing them. During which time they sent out their pollen... So I had lots of seeds after all... and thus I, Emeraldo, defeated my own plan of growing sinsemilla.
So you are right, there are reasons to consider it brave. Or stupid, haha. Good reasons to go with feminized seed. If you are not brave (or stupid) enough, haha. I guess I just like to feel in control, and with fem seeds the mother has always been stressed, always a lingering feeling like something unexpected can happen because of the intervention into the normal natural seed growth. Maybe that's all in my imagination. I admit I worry about the possibility of hermies happening, so for me it's less a matter of being brave with regulars than trying to avoid the instability that you know might be there. Maybe it's just ignorance on my part, I don't know enough about how they make feminized seed even though I've been growing them for years.
Now I don't get stressed about regular, and I don't do all that toting work, it is just a matter of watching them develop and interceding at the right moment. I guess I just like the knowledge that I am growing a regular healthy female that can produce normal seed and that most likely won't herm on me unless she gets lots of stress. Some strains, like most of what GHS sells, are only feminized, like Arjan's Haze #1 and Arjan's Strawberry Haze, so since I wanted those strains I had to go with feminized. Also I like the opportunity regular seed give to dabble in "breeding" and growing a few seeds.
Also, it's nice to keep those regular skills active, not getting too complacent with these feminized seed. A real farmer, not some femmy balcony grower, hehe. Seed machismo.
BTW, Last season I grew a 'feminized' Gorgonzola seed gifted from a friend (from AMS), the grow was less than spectacular, for which I take the blame for that. I pollinated a couple of it's colas with AMS White Widow Xtrm and this season one of my girls (3-WWG) is the cross between those plants. The interesting thing is, this season my friend is again growing one of that original order of 'feminized' gorgonzola seeds, it is a nice looking plant but it appears totally a male. The same thing happened to his 'feminized' WWX plant from seeds in the same order which was a total male from where I got the pollen from. So were the seeds unstable or maybe the person picking the order was sloppy and selected regulars instead of feminized, who knows.
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- #111
Thanks for that, it looks interesting and good to know it comes recommended.any splits or open wounds on your plants can be effectively sealed using this Bitumen Spray especially made for the task, it will keep infections/ants etc out, can be purchased from ebay.com.au or some Agri supply places
I wrapped the split in electrical tape over a week ago, the plant has not appeared to be affected by the spilt in any way. At this point as it is just entering flowering stage, I am inclined to leave it as it is because it continues to look well and at least now I know the spilt should not open up because of the support of the electrical tape binding the spilt.
MrX
Well-Known Member
its all good, ive had a number of plants have split stems etc & offered them no treatment, most the time they come through ok, i mostly have used the Steri Prune when i cut an entire top off a budding plant & just leave a few small lower buds to regrow, like it were cut down to a stump, then i spray the raw stump to seal the deal, havnt gone down that path for over a decade now, seemed to get inferior plants regrowing like that, yet other people swear it works well?
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- #113
The 2 girls (2-WW & 3-WWG) continue to truck along seemingly well. They have been doing some 'stretching' and showing the first signs of 'thickening up' with pistils about the nodes, but they haven't yet displayed the gathering of pistils at the top of the flowers which I correctly or incorrectly think of as the 'budlet' stage.
Viewed in the sunshine from side on gives combined 2 plants a bit of a 'sea of green' appearance.
2-WW from above
3-WWG is more expansive than her step sister, but then again she is in a bigger 50 liter pot.
I have continued to give the plants waterings of diluted worm wee, last time I included some 'Seasol' kelp concentrate with that. I give the worm wee perhaps every second or third watering.
I haven't given them any more foliar feeds for just over a week now. I may give them one more before I stop and let them get on with flowering, but I am not sure yet. They look well to me and I feel that they equally may not particularly need further foliar feeding. Similarly with training, there is nothing really further to do. The accidental split that occurred to 3-WWG I feel probably happened when I was doing a rushed (stealth) watering that caused me to clumsily blunder into the plant and give it a couple of hard knocks to the uppermost larger Quad arms, I think with the tension that the plant is under from the training that the unfortunate knocks probably caused it to split.
The little Gorilla Glue Auto appears well at this early stage. I was impressed with IntheShed's LST work that he presented in his tutorial, so I may try that approach on it rather than Quadlining, but I'm not sure yet, need to deliberate more.
Viewed in the sunshine from side on gives combined 2 plants a bit of a 'sea of green' appearance.
2-WW from above
3-WWG is more expansive than her step sister, but then again she is in a bigger 50 liter pot.
I have continued to give the plants waterings of diluted worm wee, last time I included some 'Seasol' kelp concentrate with that. I give the worm wee perhaps every second or third watering.
I haven't given them any more foliar feeds for just over a week now. I may give them one more before I stop and let them get on with flowering, but I am not sure yet. They look well to me and I feel that they equally may not particularly need further foliar feeding. Similarly with training, there is nothing really further to do. The accidental split that occurred to 3-WWG I feel probably happened when I was doing a rushed (stealth) watering that caused me to clumsily blunder into the plant and give it a couple of hard knocks to the uppermost larger Quad arms, I think with the tension that the plant is under from the training that the unfortunate knocks probably caused it to split.
The little Gorilla Glue Auto appears well at this early stage. I was impressed with IntheShed's LST work that he presented in his tutorial, so I may try that approach on it rather than Quadlining, but I'm not sure yet, need to deliberate more.
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
Very interesting your thoughts around using regulars, and good points too. For me till now, I've had no choice. But in growing regulars, for me it is the limitations of space that make it a bit of a pain in having to kick off, say, twice as many seeds to allow for males. That is one thing, the other is once the genders can confidently be decided, for the outdoor season the 'prime' starting time of the season has come and gone. I had said previously that going on my experience with taking closeups over the plant's I felt I could tell this by 4 - 6 weeks. I should have said 6 - 8 weeks. So even after that amount of time has gone by, it is still possible to kick of late stage plants. There is a certain convenience to feminized seeds however I can appreciate now there are potential stability qualities that regulars bring.
BTW, Last season I grew a 'feminized' Gorgonzola seed gifted from a friend (from AMS), the grow was less than spectacular, for which I take the blame for that. I pollinated a couple of it's colas with AMS White Widow Xtrm and this season one of my girls (3-WWG) is the cross between those plants. The interesting thing is, this season my friend is again growing one of that original order of 'feminized' gorgonzola seeds, it is a nice looking plant but it appears totally a male. The same thing happened to his 'feminized' WWX plant from seeds in the same order which was a total male from where I got the pollen from. So were the seeds unstable or maybe the person picking the order was sloppy and selected regulars instead of feminized, who knows.
Space limitations are the main "negative" about regulars, I agree. Apart from that, however, once you know what you've got (a male or a female), you don't need to be much concerned about recessive instabilities. With feminized, you still have to pay attention, like your friend with the "feminized" seed that consistently puts out males. Go figure.
Your grow is looking good. So it's down to the two girls and the auto? Did you chop the suspect? Or was there proof?
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- #115
Good points around the positives of regular seed. I feel a heartened about growing them now, previously my mindset was more about making do as I didn't have any option of feminized seeds to grow. Next season of course, I have several feminized options of 420 seeds that were received too late to kick off this season.
The last remaining male 4-WWG, I chopped maybe a week ago as I quite possibly will use that pot to kick off another auto soon. But I felt it was 100% male, based on the close up pictures I took for that purpose and their developmental progression over time. I didn't wait for the multiple balls stage that would have absolutely confirmed it as I wanted the container it was in, but the development of the preflower structures had me feeling it was clearly a male, see pic below for what I mean, from the chop day.
So far, touch wood, my girls appear really well. Heaps better than last year. I am curious that if they remain looking so well to harvest, will the resulting bud be improved/more potent over last year? Also too, the cross of the Gorgonzola/WW has me curious on what it's high will be like. I feel it will be better than pure Gorgonzola and I'm hoping the WW adds something special to it. I am also thinking I might pollinate a cola or two or possibly each plant just to harvest a few hundred more regular seeds since I am feeling better about growing regulars now
, as I have a jar of saved WW pollen from last year, it has just been stored on a shelf and not in the fridge where I intended to get around to storing it, but there a lot in it and it's remained dry and powdery so I imagine it will still mostly be potent.I'm thinking if the grow stays good, and the result is potent, and I am feeling good about growing regulars, then I'd be silly not to selectively pollinate and harvest a few seeds just in case they're especially good.
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- #116
I feel now with each Summer day that the girls are wanting daily watering, certainly 2-WW in the 30 liter pot will start to wilt if she is not watered on the second day. It isn't necessarily that they're especially thirsty probably more from me drilling lots of holes in the containers in an attempt to create an air pot effect for the roots.
Color wise, I note that 3-WWG is now a little lighter in comparison to 2-WW who got a nitrogen top up a month or so ago with Blood n Bone. Overall I am not thinking that 3-WWG warrants Nitrogen supplementation at this stage, she still seems to me to have good color and the lower leaves remain a nice full green no lightening there, plus the beginning of the bloom stage is only a week or two away
.
Today I gave both girls a dilute worm wee watering after a foliar feed, which was my usual mix of Humic/Fulvic acids, Kelp extract and Fish Hydrolysate. I couldn't help thinking how perked up they were when the sun hit them later, it seemed like it's a response to the foliar feeding, the leaves seemed to especially stand out, like there is a bit of current zapping thru them. Perhaps now I am encouraged to do a further, one more foliar feed, before stopping for the remainder of flowering
The little Gorilla Glue Auto is looking good. I am looking forward to seeing how she progresses. I started LST training her today, and will post some pics once that's underway.
Color wise, I note that 3-WWG is now a little lighter in comparison to 2-WW who got a nitrogen top up a month or so ago with Blood n Bone. Overall I am not thinking that 3-WWG warrants Nitrogen supplementation at this stage, she still seems to me to have good color and the lower leaves remain a nice full green no lightening there, plus the beginning of the bloom stage is only a week or two away
.Today I gave both girls a dilute worm wee watering after a foliar feed, which was my usual mix of Humic/Fulvic acids, Kelp extract and Fish Hydrolysate. I couldn't help thinking how perked up they were when the sun hit them later, it seemed like it's a response to the foliar feeding, the leaves seemed to especially stand out, like there is a bit of current zapping thru them. Perhaps now I am encouraged to do a further, one more foliar feed, before stopping for the remainder of flowering
The little Gorilla Glue Auto is looking good. I am looking forward to seeing how she progresses. I started LST training her today, and will post some pics once that's underway.
Emeraldo
Well-Known Member
...
So far, touch wood, my girls appear really well. Heaps better than last year. I am curious that if they remain looking so well to harvest, will the resulting bud be improved/more potent over last year? Also too, the cross of the Gorgonzola/WW has me curious on what it's high will be like. I feel it will be better than pure Gorgonzola and I'm hoping the WW adds something special to it. I am also thinking I might pollinate a cola or two or possibly each plant just to harvest a few hundred more regular seeds since I am feeling better about growing regulars now
I'm thinking if the grow stays good, and the result is potent, and I am feeling good about growing regulars, then I'd be silly not to selectively pollinate and harvest a few seeds just in case they're especially good.
Yes, they look good in the photos you've posted today. I wouldn't worry yet that the WWG is a bit lighter. She might just be a pheno that has lighter green. So long as she looks healthy, vigorous.
You really think the pollen from last year will be viable?
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- #118
Well I am purely guessing that it will be viable, it has been kept dry altho at room temperature for 4 seasons over a year. But my guess is it will be. I know it is often said it wont, or at least it needs to be in the fridge but I've read postings of folk who've had success with long stored pollen. I do also have some older 2 year pollen stored in the fridge, but I think I'll dust a cola or two with the room temperature pollen when the time comes and see what happens.
They really do look electric don’t they?!
Got me excited to try foliar feeding on my next run.
Got me excited to try foliar feeding on my next run.
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- #120
I have always been 'fuzzily' aware that the plants seemed happier after a foliar feed, but only after this last one did it strike me more clearly. Maybe I should simply time the foliar spraying with whenever I see them lose their 'zip', but twice a week seemed to go fine.
Today, I saw a white butterfly flutter guiltily past the plants, I might have to give them a pre-emptive spray of BT if I see any further interest from the little feckers.