Outdoor Organic Balcony Stealth Quadlining: White Widow/Gorgonzola

[Stunger]

It has been fairly hot these days and the stone tiles that the pots are sitting on heat up and radiate the heat back at the plants. I have been giving them a good watering daily, sometimes I top up in the late afternoon too when I see them beginning to wilt a little, especially 2-WW in the smaller 30 liter pot. Mostly using a light dilution of worm wee. That is one thing about Quadlining, it's a bugger getting the watering can nozzle into the pot with all the wiring and branches.

Yesterday I gave them another foliar feed, I figure as the bloom stage of flowering gets under way I will stop the foliar feeds but in the mean time I feel the plants seem 'lifted' from them.

There has been a bit of 'stretching' going on the last couple of weeks. I partially want it to stop so they don't get too high,and if they do I'll have to put the balcony rail herb planters up to shield them, but then hopefully that will mean that the colas will be longer and more produce bud, not too much to hope for is it.

3-WWG in 50 liter pot & 2-WW in 30 liter pot

• Stunger
• Jan 19, 2020

3-WWG & 2-WW

• Stunger
• Jan 19, 2020

 

[Emeraldo]

Hot tiles! Owch! I've had some experience there, pots sitting directly on hot tiles created stress leading to the worst hermie I ever had.

But the problem is solvable by lifting or the pot off the tile. I use one or more pieces of wood under the pot, allowing cooling air to flow under the pot. That's what I do. Always if plants will be standing in the direct sunlight for several hours.

Nice looking plants, Stunger! Heading into flowering, hehe!

 

[Emeraldo]

It has been fairly hot these days and the stone tiles that the pots are sitting on heat up and radiate the heat back at the plants. I have been giving them a good watering daily, sometimes I top up in the late afternoon too when I see them beginning to wilt a little, especially 2-WW in the smaller 30 liter pot. Mostly using a light dilution of worm wee. That is one thing about Quadlining, it's a bugger getting the watering can nozzle into the pot with all the wiring and branches.

Yesterday I gave them another foliar feed, I figure as the bloom stage of flowering gets under way I will stop the foliar feeds but in the mean time I feel the plants seem 'lifted' from them.

There has been a bit of 'stretching' going on the last couple of weeks. I partially want it to stop so they don't get too high,and if they do I'll have to put the balcony rail herb planters up to shield them, but then hopefully that will mean that the colas will be longer and more produce bud, not too much to hope for is it.

3-WWG in 50 liter pot & 2-WW in 30 liter pot

• Stunger
• Jan 19, 2020

3-WWG & 2-WW

• Stunger
• Jan 19, 2020

So this sounds interesting, your foliar feeding practices. You say the plants look uplifted or perked up right after the feeding, are looking droopy when they haven't had a recent feeding. Does foliar feeding exclude supplemental watering, or are you relying completely on the foliar feeding for water.?

 

[Stunger]

Hot tiles! Owch! I've had some experience there, pots sitting directly on hot tiles created stress leading to the worst hermie I ever had.

But the problem is solvable by lifting or the pot off the tile. I use one or more pieces of wood under the pot, allowing cooling air to flow under the pot. That's what I do. Always if plants will be standing in the direct sunlight for several hours.

Nice looking plants, Stunger! Heading into flowering, hehe!

Re the tiles, I tell myself that they don't get really hot, but yet when I step on them with bare feet when the sun's been out, then it is too hot to comfortably stay standing. I have thought (many times) about raising the pots with some small branches or whatever under them, just to raise them a centimeter or so. I did think that, and I continue to ask myself, whether that would be better, only yesterday I was again considering that, whether to raise them or let them continue to sit on the stone tiles.

But I keep coming back to this... Underneath the pots it is cool, or at least cooler, the tiles are cut from some of volcanic pumice stone (harder than the airy type of pumice that can float, here it is called Hinuera stone, the point is that it isn't a massive conductor of heat. Plus, my pots have been drilled out to buggery. The sides and even the bases have had many 2cm holes drilled in them. So the pots are really airy and they very easy draining, they are also much quicker drying.

After previous grows I have been surprised at how dry the soil has been when I have given the plant the chop and had the opportunity to evaluate the condition of the roots and size of the root mass and condition of the soil, I was very surprised at how dry the soil was around the outer pot surface, a normal 'undrilled' pot would stay moist to the base and sides but my drilled pots were practically dry in all that perimeter volume, it seemed a waste.

In hindsight I had been obeying too closely, the 'rule' to only water when 2 knuckles deep is dry type of thing. I found for my 'drilled out' pots that following that rule was too much, excessive for my conditions, I notice just watering once daily with such air drilled pots barely keeps up with the plant's water demands (I often do twice daily), to my mind there is no chance that these pots can become waterlogged with all the holes I have drilled in them. Plus too, I have a layer of volcanic Scoria on the bottom of the pot to, a) stop roots getting waterlogged but with drilled holes there should be no fear of that, b) provide the roots some minerals, slow release but presumably the microbes would like to hang out out in the aerations like they do in biochar, and c) maybe the Scoria helps give additional thermal buffering from any heat conduction from the tiles.

Quite possibly the tiles you had that hermie experience with, were very heat conductive. But good point, if I see any hermie development then I would have to do something, but so far growing in the same location I haven't had any hermies, yet, so hopefully that means that the heat stress factor is not breaching the hermie limits.

So with all that I am so far keeping the pots on the tiles as I am concerned that if I raise them that may make the bases dry out even quicker perhaps in an adverse way. This season I am watering to where I feel the plants are happy, they do often wilt at the end of hot days and when I water them at that point they quickly pick up again so it is clear to me that they dry out far quicker than 'undrilled' pots which often have a single hole in the base or maybe 4 holes, mine have multiples of that, so I have abandoned that 2 knuckle rule as I know how quickly these pots drain and dry out, experience has told me that. I now feel I am better in the Summer heat/sun to water daily and most days twice. The pots dry quickly and presumably pull in air/oxygen each time, so that is probably good as long as the the pots are rehydrated before drying out too much.

I think some of those rules are great the majority of times but there can be exceptions and at the end of the day, the main thing is just keep the plants happy. They seem reasonably content so far. Now if I can just keep them that way, that would be great!

 

[Stunger]

So this sounds interesting, your foliar feeding practices. You say the plants look uplifted or perked up right after the feeding, are looking droopy when they haven't had a recent feeding. Does foliar feeding exclude supplemental watering, or are you relying completely on the foliar feeding for water.?

I have used foliar spraying in addition to watering. I started foliar feeding for the first time this grow, I had read about folks talking about it, and then reading it in relation to High Brix gardening it seemed to come up more. I just did it because I wanted to align my grow towards this 'High Brix' idea, but I happened to notice without looking for it, that the plants just seemed, perhaps looking more 'zippy' after receiving a foliar feeding, at first I didn't think about it too much as I was busy carrying out the things needed. But now, I'm thinking that with all the days of straight sun beating down on them that perhaps a foliar feed with dilution of kelp concentrate and fish hydrolysate (and sometimes some humic/fulvic acids) perhaps that is helpful. It's just a subjective but I feel that they like it. I have been doing it once or twice a week, it only takes a few minutes and probably no need to worry if you are away and can't carry it out on occasion.

 

[DonkeyDick]

Your pants are looking lovely, Stunger. Any more stretch and you’ll be supercropping those tops. They’re gonna be great!

That is one thing about Quadlining, it's a bugger getting the watering can nozzle into the pot with all the wiring and branches.

I usually take off the ties when I feed because this gives me a chance to adjust them. Mind you, I’m only feeding once or twice a week not twice a day

 

[Emeraldo]

Regarding stealth, I would put up the herb containers on the railing. Your colas may get taller still. And as they do, you may also need supercropping to bend some of those down and away so people walking by don't notice.

 

[Emeraldo]

Re the tiles, I tell myself that they don't get really hot, but yet when I step on them with bare feet when the sun's been out, then it is too hot to comfortably stay standing. I have thought (many times) about raising the pots with some small branches or whatever under them, just to raise them a centimeter or so. I did think that, and I continue to ask myself, whether that would be better, only yesterday I was again considering that, whether to raise them or let them continue to sit on the stone tiles.

But I keep coming back to this... Underneath the pots it is cool, or at least cooler, the tiles are cut from some of volcanic pumice stone (harder than the airy type of pumice that can float, here it is called Hinuera stone, the point is that it isn't a massive conductor of heat. Plus, my pots have been drilled out to buggery. The sides and even the bases have had many 2cm holes drilled in them. So the pots are really airy and they very easy draining, they are also much quicker drying.
...
Quite possibly the tiles you had that hermie experience with, were very heat conductive. But good point, if I see any hermie development then I would have to do something, but so far growing in the same location I haven't had any hermies, yet, so hopefully that means that the heat stress factor is not breaching the hermie limits.

Yes, one terrace I grow on is east-facing and gets direct summer sun for about 10 hours a day in mid-summer. so by around 2 pm the tiles -- 4cm thick ceramic -- get so hot I cannot stand on them for more than a few seconds. Back when I was ignorant hehe I thought the plants would love all that sun. And they do, but the heat from the tiles is too much to put them directly on the tile, as you point out, the roots will be stressed. Sounds like you have that problem under control.

 

[Stunger]

As a future note to myself. Today I decided to give approximately a quarter cup of blood n bone to the 2 girls. Most of it to 3-WWG which is just a tiny bit lighter than 2-WW who got a top dressing of blood n bone 3 or 4 weeks ago (that allowed her to regain a good green color and told me that I had re-amended the soil too lightly). But with maybe 3 months still to go and 2 weeks before the budlets arrive, I thought I'd nip my concerns in the bud and give the lighter one (3-WWG) a little Nitrogen boost, without hopefully over doing it, I want just enough Nitrogen for the plants to reach harvest without going super light in the last 6 weeks of flowering. Other than that, the sun is beating down and they're looking good, hopefully they'll continue that way.

 

[Emeraldo]

As a future note to myself. Today I decided to give approximately a quarter cup of blood n bone to the 2 girls. ...

Now that you are approaching flowering, I would top dress them with maybe a bit more N (as you are thinking), but as you know cannabis needs more P (also a bit more K) in flowering. PK can also be top dressed at this point so that it is available when they need it in a few weeks.

Cheers

 

[Stunger]

Now that you are approaching flowering, I would top dress them with maybe a bit more N (as you are thinking), but as you know cannabis needs more P (also a bit more K) in flowering. PK can also be top dressed at this point so that it is available when they need it in a few weeks.

Re the Nitrogen, I am hoping the modest top dressing of Blood n Bone that I gave yesterday will be sufficient to keep them at Nitrogen happy levels for the next 3 months. Altho I am mildly questioning whether I should have added a little more. I will probably just 'sit' on yesterday's top dressing and see how that does for now.

Re PK, I am thinking of giving them a feed of Canna PK13/14 (which has been sitting unused for a couple of seasons) when they pick up the pistils growth in the next 2 weeks. Having said that, it was my intention that this grow would be a 'super soil grow' and everything they need would already be in the soil, maybe it is but maybe it isn't, there is guano phosphate and a lot of different rock dusts. As amending to the right levels comes down a lot to experience as I have found out with Nitrogen levels, which at least the plants now are looking a lot better than last season's grow in that regard.
Cheers

 

[Emeraldo]

Doesn't your blood & bone contain a nice amount of P? I was going to suggest adding bone meal, which is high in P, but then I remembered you have blood & bone, which I've not used.

 

[Stunger]

Doesn't your blood & bone contain a nice amount of P? I was going to suggest adding bone meal, which is high in P, but then I remembered you have blood & bone, which I've not used.

Yes I think you are right there about the Phosphorus in the Blood n Bone.
Mostly regarding nutrients, I am hoping my soil has what it needs, but the important thing I've learned is to act quickly is something appears out of balance. So far it has only been a bit of lightening from the Nitrogen level getting low. But I have amended for that, and so far they are looking good, so as long as they appear that way I presumably don't have too much to worry about, just carry on trying to keep them happy.

 

[Emeraldo]

Yes I think you are right there about the Phosphorus in the Blood n Bone.
Mostly regarding nutrients, I am hoping my soil has what it needs, but the important thing I've learned is to act quickly is something appears out of balance. So far it has only been a bit of lightening from the Nitrogen level getting low. But I have amended for that, and so far they are looking good, so as long as they appear that way I presumably don't have too much to worry about, just carry on trying to keep them happy.

Does the package it comes in have three numbers printed prominently on the label?

Dr. Earth's Flower Girl has NPK 3-9-4, and I not only use if for amending last year's soil at the start of a grow, I also top dress it at the start of flowering to prevent NPK deficiency. If Blood-n-Bone contains a good dose of P, it is probably good enough.

 

[Stunger]

Does the package it comes in have three numbers printed prominently on the label?

Dr. Earth's Flower Girl has NPK 3-9-4, and I not only use if for amending last year's soil at the start of a grow, I also top dress it at the start of flowering to prevent NPK deficiency. If Blood-n-Bone contains a good dose of P, it is probably good enough.

My intention for my container soil has been a super soil approach, I liked this idea as it took away the hassle and worry of nutrient schedules. But after reading warnings of excessively adding nutrients I then over reacted and amended too conservatively, the fault was mine, and so is the learning from the experience

Amendments to this season's soil were additionally bumped up a number of ways but obviously I was still too frugal with the Nitrogen component, altho it was caught it early and both plants now look pretty good to me. If they stay this way I'll fine, but with the plants still potentially having 2.5 months to go and ramp up of flowering I cannot be sure that the soil will be enough to support the plants all the way to harvest. It should do, but I can't be sure. I felt I re-amended quite generously with different Rock dusts including paramagnetic, scoria at the bottom, Guano phosphate. The rock dust and scoria only release slowly but I feel a good amount was added and mixed in.

The Blood and Bone I use is 'Yates Thrive Natural Certified Organic Blood and Bone', it's NPK is 10 4 0.2
The Guano Phosphate is said to have a Phosphorus percentage of about 10%

Interesting you top dress at start of flowering. I have just a few days ago shared a fairly meagre 1/4 cup Blood n Bone to both plants, a bigger share to 3-WWG who I felt was looking just a tiny bit lighter that her step sister 2-WW.

I saw an interesting chart that was posted recently, altho at this moment in typing I can't recall immediately whose thread it was in (my apologies). But the upshot is, that it showed the lab tests on about 3 different strains, in veg and flowering, and each plant's Nitrogen demands, in all of them the Nitrogen demand was nearly as high in both veg and flowering, which seemed surprising as I had always (probably overly) thought that the Nitrogen requirement of the plant in flowering was relatively low, but the chart showed it was not.

I am wondering whether I should perhaps give them both an additional quarter of a cup of Blood n Bone more, or is it enough what was given a few days ago.

It is a weed after all, it should be get along fine on what it has got available. I think that is true. But I think also, when a plant is nutrient deprived it'll still grow fine and can still make seeds to pass on it's progeny etc, but the resulting buds are probably more likely to be 'weedy', small and wispy. I have had some utterly potent fantastic small and whispy buds in the past, but if that same potency can be in the form of firm heavy buds that amount to a bigger yield then that's even better!

These plants get a reasonable amount of heat stress thrown at them from the stone tiles. I try to mitigate that by keeping them happy, multiple waterings for their quick drying pots with diluted worm wee, and foliar feeds. If I can keep them happy then presumably that will provide the best foundation for a good harvest.

I am also intrigued by the Mega Crop route of chelated nutrients where the plant can just take what it needs, but I still need to get into reading more on that. However a bit more Blood n Bone, a quarter of a cup per plant may be good.

This morning we have had some light rain, after days of heat, but here's a pic taken yesterday of the two enjoying the sunshine!

3-WWG & 2-WW

• Stunger
• Jan 23, 2020
• 1

 

[Emeraldo]

Your plants look like they are doing very well. Pre-flower looks like. See any pistils yet? The WWG on the left no longer has the yellow hue, I guess your amendment fixed it for now. Looks like that 1/4 cup did the trick.



10-4-0.2 is good on N but imho that is not really a great balance for cannabis, since cannabis needs more PK than that. It will work just fine as part of your soil ingredients, but I'd recommend adding other ingredients to make up what is lacking.

If they were mine, I would add, as I said, a good dose of P going into flowering. Maybe that's just my method, but you can't really harm them with a top dressing of organic bone meal or fish bone meal or other amendment high in P, maybe your guano phosphate would help. What does the guano phosphate package indicate as an NPK?

 

[Stunger]

Your plants look like they are doing very well. Pre-flower looks like. See any pistils yet? The WWG on the left no longer has the yellow hue, I guess your amendment fixed it for now. Looks like that 1/4 cup did the trick.



10-4-0.2 is good on N but imho that is not really a great balance for cannabis, since cannabis needs more PK than that. It will work just fine as part of your soil ingredients, but I'd recommend adding other ingredients to make up what is lacking.

If they were mine, I would add, as I said, a good dose of P going into flowering. Maybe that's just my method, but you can't really harm them with a top dressing of organic bone meal or fish bone meal or other amendment high in P, maybe your guano phosphate would help. What does the guano phosphate package indicate as an NPK?

Yes, there are pistils at most/all nodes but yet to gather into 'budlets' at the top of each stem. I imagine somewhere close to 2 more weeks for that, and then I'd guess the Bloom stage is underway.

Good point re the NPK of the Blood n Bone.
The NPK of the Guano Phosphate I am using appears to be 0 10.25 0.05 So there is P in that, as well as presumably all the rock dust I have in the mix already, plus the bone from the Blood n Bone.

I am wondering whether to combine a modest 1/8 cup of Blood n Bone and 1/8 cup of Guano Phosphate and give that to each plant as a top dressing. It shouldn't be too much to risk oversupply? Thereby they'd have a little more N for the 10 weeks ahead as well as some more P for the flowering bloom stage that they are entering.

 

[Emeraldo]

Yes, there are pistils at most/all nodes but yet to gather into 'budlets' at the top of each stem. I imagine somewhere close to 2 more weeks for that, and then I'd guess the Bloom stage is underway.

Good point re the NPK of the Blood n Bone.
The NPK of the Guano Phosphate I am using appears to be 0 10.25 0.05 So there is P in that, as well as presumably all the rock dust I have in the mix already, plus the bone from the Blood n Bone.

I am wondering whether to combine a modest 1/8 cup of Blood n Bone and 1/8 cup of Guano Phosphate and give that to each plant as a top dressing. It shouldn't be too much to risk oversupply? Thereby they'd have a little more N for the 10 weeks ahead as well as some more P for the flowering bloom stage that they are entering.

Exactly. Together with the N from Blood n Bone, that Guano Phosphate will supply the P they need in flowering. A quarter cup for each plant (1/8 cup Blood n Bone + 1/8 cup G Phosphate) is the flowering boost they need now.

That may well get them through bloom, keeping them healthy and nice and green all the way to harvest! There isn't any chance of "oversupply" in using organic nutrients at the levels we are talking about.

 

[Emeraldo]

Looks like a great supersoil ingredient! Guano Phosphate Fertiliser | Fertile Fields Ltd

Worth noting: this guano phosphate product has a pH value of 8+, so it is said to offer a "liming effect" of raising pH. The amount you are going to use in your 50 gallon container is not going to move the needle there, but it's good to know.

 

[Stunger]

Exactly. Together with the N from Blood n Bone, that Guano Phosphate will supply the P they need in flowering. A quarter cup for each plant (1/8 cup Blood n Bone + 1/8 cup G Phosphate) is the flowering boost they need now.

That may well get them through bloom, keeping them healthy and nice and green all the way to harvest! There isn't any chance of "oversupply" in using organic nutrients at the levels we are talking about.

This morning I top dressed with 1/8 cup Blood n Bone and 1/8 cup Guano Phosphate to the bigger girl in the 50 liter pot, and about 2/3 of that to the smaller girl in the 30 liter pot. It is always a bit of mission doing so stealthily, but it is done now, so hopefully the plants will be pretty good from here on.

I took a few cups of my own organic compost that has been composting away for 6 months or so which is complete with worms and looking really nice stuff to grow in, I mixed this with a few cups of worm castings and I sprinkled that over the pots and watered generously with some diluted 'Seasol' kelp extract.

There are so many training wires and Quad arm laterals branching out that it is quite difficult to reach thru the canopy and sprinkle amendments on. It is quite impossible to do any working in to the soil. Hopefully the watering 'washed' any amendments off any parts of the plants it landed on, so it will all go to work nicely.

The skinny future cola branches of the plants are starting to show thickening up with sugar leaf growth lower down which is gradually moving up. If all goes well they could be looking pretty nice with all their potential cola branches in 6 weeks or so. The folk who grow indoors, must get a bit blase about it, as all thru the year they'll have various plants growing nicely at different stages, but for the outdoor growers there is only one growing season a year and it's a bums rush to get it all happening, all the while hoping it comes together before waiting another year to start over again.