Outdoor Organic Balcony Stealth Quadlining: White Widow/Gorgonzola

[Stunger]

With a tear in the ol' eye, no doubt, after all that work! Look at all that! Just gone in a jack flash!

Yes, but it had to be done unfortunately. I have the Gorilla Glue (1-GGa) growing in it's pot now. Instead of giving it the chop from the base I wanted to take greenery off first to show the underlying limb structure.

My un-topped suspected male (4-WWG) which is looking pretty good now, it will also be given the chop in the coming days and possibly kick off another Gorilla Glue auto in it's pot. There is a wee temptation to let it live longer to harvest some -White Widow Xtrm x Gorgonzola pollen from it, but I already have a good amount of regular seeds of that cross from last season, I can first see how the buds of 3-WWG turn out and grow more of the same seeds if it is given a thumbs up.

 

[Stunger]

I gave a nice diluted worm wee soil drench to the plants followed by another foliar feed this morning, spraying leftover to vege garden.
1.5 liter dechlorinated water
2.5ml 'Seasol' seaweed/keep concentrate
2.5ml humic/fulvic acids
2.5ml Fish Hydrolysate
5 drops of organic liquid soap as surfactant

Plants all appear well, the suspected male seems to be getting greener by the day from it's recent Blood n Bone supplementation. Probably cull it soon and re-use it's pot.

 

[Emeraldo]

Stunger, I saw this on the Sensi blog page. Good summary of the most common deficiencies. Have a look at the first paragraphs, pretty much describes your untopped male.

Sensi states: "In the early stages of nitrogen deficiency, leaves appear to be too light in colour—almost yellowish-green—compared to the desired deep green of healthy leaves." They also point out: "The larger leaves on the lower and outer parts of the plant are often the first to be affected and the first to die." 7 Common Cannabis Plant Deficiencies & Leaf Symptoms - Sensi Seeds

This is just a confirmation of the diagnosis we made, congrats for reacting in time! ...Not that you wanted to keep this male headed for the compost, but it's satisfying to be able to solve this problem! -- lol.

Good job, Stunger!

 

[Emeraldo]

I shared a friend's 420 order. No, it wasn't straight forward. 2 attempts got stopped, the third one made it.
Previously the 'friend' had also used AMS for 2 orders, of the first order the first attempted delivery failed and the second succeeded, and on the next AMS order both attempted deliveries failed. He also achieved a double failure with Herbies. I don't believe it is the fault of the seed companies, it is all down to the pettiness of Customs and repressive NZ rules unfortunately. I sure hope that changes when the Referendum comes later this year.
...

Wow, NZ customs really has it locked up! How do you think the good folks of NZ are going to vote? Is media coverage favorable?

California went legal almost 3 years ago, and I can tell you it will still require major change to integrate cannabis into the mainstream of life after years of prohibition. As of now, the black market persists, dwarfing the much-touted tax revenues by 75%, as well as undercutting licensing requirements and regulations intended to protect the public. It will take some serious effort to enforce the new legal rules.

 

[Emeraldo]

Yes, but it had to be done unfortunately. I have the Gorilla Glue (1-GGa) growing in it's pot now. Instead of giving it the chop from the base I wanted to take greenery off first to show the underlying limb structure.

My un-topped suspected male (4-WWG) which is looking pretty good now, it will also be given the chop in the coming days and possibly kick off another Gorilla Glue auto in it's pot. There is a wee temptation to let it live longer to harvest some -White Widow Xtrm x Gorgonzola pollen from it, but I already have a good amount of regular seeds of that cross from last season, I can first see how the buds of 3-WWG turn out and grow more of the same seeds if it is given a thumbs up.

Ah, but did your males from last year look as good as this guy? I'm thinking it's a shame to chop him when he might provide some good genetics.

 

[Stunger]

Wow, NZ customs really has it locked up! How do you think the good folks of NZ are going to vote? Is media coverage favorable?

The most important thing is that the Referendum is given the Yes vote by the public. I don't know what will happen is the Referendum is lost, as what say in the event of a loss that there is only a few points difference between the Yes and the No. Surely then some consideration must be made for the democratic vote showing a large number of people want it, surely if 51% votes that folks can't enjoy an edible, a vape, tincture, a bong etc, and 49% wanted that then that wont seen right.

The post legalization issues of California and Canada also, I presume are all issues which they will have to address here too. Hopefully, the experience of those places will be helpful in making it smoother in NZ. Although in saying that, as much as I'd love the option for there to be dispensarys to be able to walk in and choose some bud from a choice of strains, for me, I much prefer to grow my own as then I know what went into it, that it is organic, with no 'dodgy for my health' sprays or nasty growth enhancer chemicals etc. In addition to that I would like to be able to purchase from the choice of good genetic seeds that are available out there, that would be great.

The Government seems supportive if that is what the people vote for. In fact one of previous Prime Ministers, Helen Clark, as said it should be legalized and regrets not doing so in the 3 terms she had as Prime Minister. They have said they will clamp down on any false scaremongering put forward from the 'No' camp. So if it all unfolds like that then it'll all be down to how the people vote.

 

[Stunger]

Ah, but did your males from last year look as good as this guy? I'm thinking it's a shame to chop him when he might provide some good genetics.

Well his father, who I grew out for pollen last season was a very handsome and vigorous male plant and I still have a jar of his pollen and lots of his progeny by way of seeds crossed with both White Widow and Gorgonzola mothers. The 2 males this season are step brothers of his.

If only I just had the comfort of being able to grow more plants, but I am restricted by stealth, growing area and bud smell.

The male Quadlined plant that I chopped a couple of weeks ago I felt looked even better but that was his boy too. Now, if I could do the same with the Gorilla Glue Auto I'd be very pleased.

 

[Emeraldo]

I don't know how well autoflowering plants will take to pruning.

And when will the Referendum take place?

 

[Stunger]

I don't know how well autoflowering plants will take to pruning.

And when will the Referendum take place?

The expectation is that the referendum date would be somewhere close to the year end and be carried out on the same day as a general election which is yet to be announced. They will also at the same time hold a referendum on Euthanasia.

I have no experience whatsoever with Autos. I am aware of various differences that accepted wisdom says are important. The pruning, I too have read it is not good when done to an Auto, but recently I read on a site, Autoflower.net that many there claimed to have no problem mainlining or manifolding their plants. My own Quadlined plants were very minimumly cut. Accepted wisdom seems to say you have to grow out the plant to 5 or 6 nodes and then top above the 4th losing in the process what seems to be a lot of plant growth. I only grew them to the 4th and only to where the growth shoot of the 4th node was big enough to 'wiggle/waggle' back and forth to break off (about less than an inch), I carried out this single (micro) topping and grew out the 2nd and 3rd nodes, the 2nd node is the one that initially only produces a single 3 blade leaf. But this way a very minimum of the plant's growth is wasted, the 'micro topping' that is carried out then heals amazingly well compared to when topping on greater growth. Many times I hear that always the 1st and second nodes need to be pruned off, but I have found, at least to my eye, that the 2 node grew out very strongly, especially on 2-WW, as soon after it was micro topped a slug chomped into it's 3rd node growth shoot and I wasn't sure if that node's growth would survive, it slowed it initially and the 2nd node grew out correspondingly very strongly but after a while the 3rd node recovered from the slug attack to eventually become the dominant node. Both my Quadlined plants (2-WW & 3-WWG) appear to my eye to be looking vigorous and healthy, they don't appear stunted, or having impeded growth. I just have to keep them happy now!

It was from reading Light Addict's fluxing threads last year that caused me to change my topping timing from allowing the plant to grow out more to instead saving wasted growth by micro topping it. He also claimed he had no problem doing this with Autos. I think that if this approach is done with Autos it may make it work, whereas when allowing the plant to grow out so much only to prune it off like many people would do with a Photoperiod plant, then perhaps doing it like that has caused the accepted wisdom to be where Autos can't be pruned like that. I mean, that also makes sense to me, as the Auto is quick growing on a finite time line, so that traditional topping approach quite possibly would waste too much growth, time and recovery. I think if the Auto is a known very small sized strain then perhaps it would be too much to attempt, but if the Auto is known to grow to a reasonable size, then I can't see why it wouldn't work fine. But unless I read anything prior to that point that causes me to change my mind then I'll probably attempt to Quadline the Gorilla Glue (1-GGa). The only consideration against it that I currently have, is that I also wanted try to force one or two limbs of the plant to produce female pollen sacs, maybe there is a small reason there to do no pruning because of the time that changing the gender on these limbs could take. But right now, my plan is to micro top and Quadline it, and learn from the experience.

As an aside, right now, the air and sky outside has taken on a distinct 'orangery' tint, it is like looking thru a colored filter whether indoors or outdoors, it is all from the bushfire smoke that has drifted across the sea to NZ from Australia. I am sure my plants were hoping for a nice sunny day which it should have otherwise been. Even as I have been writing this the sky is covered in a dense thick orange plume of smoke, it has darkened a lot now, like a massive sunset, the air smells really dirty too, I have never seen it like this before. Must be quite terrifying in Australia now.

 

[Emeraldo]

The expectation is that the referendum date would be somewhere close to the year end and be carried out on the same day as a general election which is yet to be announced. They will also at the same time hold a referendum on Euthanasia.

So... if the stinky weed referendum falls through, maybe there is still hope that at least suicide will be legalized.

Sounds very bad, Stunger. Is that the mood out and about in the growing community?

Is there any organisation behind the referendum?

 

[Stunger]

In the current climate, there is a call for a change of emphasis from criminalizing it, to making it more of a health issue (for those who aren't able to keep their lives in balance), I think for the majority of people that it is perfectly fine, like I'd imagine for most alcohol users, that most people enjoy a drink whilst acting responsibly and for them it is never a problem to themselves or others. I want the same for cannabis.

 

[Stunger]

A split in 3rd node Quadlining knuckle of 3-WWG
Today, I thought maybe I would see if I could adjust the training ties a bit and attempt to level out the canopy of the 2 girls, which in my opinion aren't really too bad. But as I looked down on the task I noticed the bigger girl, the White Widow/Gorgonzola (3-WWG) in the larger 50 liter pot had split down it's 3rd node Quadlining knuckle. Looking back over my pictures, I can see now that there was a split appearing at that location yesterday.

3-WWG

• Stunger
• Jan 5, 2020

Third node Quadlining knuckle split

Aside from the split, the plant appears uneffected. To me it is looking quite good, all things considering.

3-WWG with split in 3rd node knuckle

• Stunger
• Jan 5, 2020

But now, what to do?
These plants are very hardy and currently it appears unaffected, quite happy, but the plant probably still has another 3 months to go until harvest. Do I leave it to heal naturally as I am fairly sure it would. Or attempt to bind up the split. If I bind it up, often people say to use Duct tape which to me is awfully sticky and when it is time to remove it I would be concerned of adhesion of the tape ripping the skin of the plant. However in this case I would imagine that any binding done would be left on for the life of the plant. The other alternative thought I had was to use a length of the plastic coated garden wire that I use for training the limbs, and wind that in a crisscross manner around and across the wound site to draw the 2 split sides partially or completely together and leave it on for the life of the plant.
If I bind it, I am wary about using any material that causes the stem to 'sweat' or hold water (like cloth ties) as when the buds come on I don't want any chance of it holding water and contributing to mold or budrot. For binding I would incline to choose the plastic coated garden wire.
If I don't bind it, the split shouldn't open too much more, as the branches are somewhat supported by the rim of the pot. Also, if I don't bind it, is it worth applying any 'medicine' to the split, not sure what??

It's step sister 2-WW is continuing to regain a healthier color after the Nitrogen amendment .

2-WW

• Stunger
• Jan 5, 2020

And the baby, 1-GGa appears fine at this early stage.

1-GGa Gorrila Glue Auto

• Stunger
• Jan 5, 2020
• 1

 

[Emeraldo]

I had that happen to a plant 2 years ago. I had topped the plant, and the split occurred during late flowering at the same node where I'd topped, with one of the two main branches pulling away, splitting the mainstem. I thought it was because of the weight of the bud. The plant was unharmed and produced great weed, but I did wonder later if that stressed her, causing hermies (I never saw any nanners but found lots of S1 selfed seeds in her bud).

I would bind tape around the stem there just for support. Not sure that is necessary, since the quadlined plant is lying flat, as it were, and it won't continue to split from the weight of the plant above it. Support for your bud will be along the rim of the pot. No medicine needed, I would think.

They're all looking very good.

 

[DonkeyDick]

Wow, NZ customs really has it locked up! How do you think the good folks of NZ are going to vote? Is media coverage favorable?

Hi. I know Stunger spoke to this. Here’s my tuppence. Political pressure against legalisation is not overt. ACC have increased premiums for employers who don’t do random drug testing. My firm is bringing it in in a cpl months because they’ll save money.
I’m optimistic because Canberra has legalised (mind you, they did 30 yrs ago and it got changed back). I’m optimistic because even the most entrenched right wing NZer takes a bit of a pause when they think Australia is getting one up on them.
Try asking that person if we should change the name of our country to Aotearoa. You can hear the garbage and grumbling already, right? Then explain to that person our national anthem will be played before Australia’s at Olympic and Commonwealth Games. Watch their half dead eyes glaze over. Sad.

I much prefer to grow my own as then I know what went into it, that it is organic, with no 'dodgy for my health' sprays or nasty growth enhancer chemicals etc. In addition to that I would like to be able to purchase from the choice of good genetic seeds that are available out there, that would be great.

I carried out this single (micro) topping and grew out the 2nd and 3rd nodes, the 2nd node is the one that initially only produces a single 3 blade leaf.

I’ve not grown an auto yet. It sounds like you cut lower than with a photo period. Your keepers on the auto are the ones I take for clones on a photo.

Garden’s rocking

 

[Stunger]

Knuckle split repair
I was evaluating the spilt in the knuckle of 3-WWG today. It had opened up a bit further overnight and split down the main stem a little deeper. If I had 10 plants growing I would have certainly left it alone and just let nature take care of it, as I am pretty sure the plant would repair itself fine, and perhaps even, if the rumors and theories are true, give an increase in yield/potency.

In the end I relented and decided to bind the split with electrical tape that can easily be removed if need be. Duct tape would have been stronger but more difficult to remove and could potentially damage the skin of the plant if trying to remove it. It was tricky to do on my own, especially with so many obstructing Quad trained branches and wiring. I was able to squash the split together with 2 hands but I was unable to apply the tape and successfully fully close it with one hand, there is still close to a 3mm gap. I left an air gap at the top of the taping, so I could see what size gap was left and also so the wound could continue to breathe. I did try a pencil like DD suggested, along the top Quad arms and also opposing at the split to give the tape more purchase to pull on, but I was unable to fully close the gap and removed the pencil so I could at least continue to monitor the gap.

To further close it, I could wind some wire really tightly around it but that would bite into the stem quite a bit even though there is tape around it. I could even apply a light clamp to the split. I am just not sure it is really worth worrying about further. The plant should heal the exposed surface of the split and the binding of the tape should hold it in place and stop any further splitting.

3-WWG, 2 days after knuckle split

• Stunger
• Jan 6, 2020

3-WWG, supportive binding with electrical tape

• Stunger
• Jan 6, 2020

3-WWG, supportive binding with electrical tape showing small gap still there

• Stunger
• Jan 6, 2020

I wont post another pic of the 2 girls (2-WW and 3-WWG) as at the moment as they're both looking the same, my eyes are going these days but they seem great to me, and 3-WWG in spite of her split is looking almost perky.

Of 4-WWG; Here's a close up a node showing a pre-flower, I have been have been calling this plant a suspected male for a while now, altho in the beginning I mistakenly thought it was a girl. But surely this pic confirms 4-WWG to be a male?

4-WWG

• Stunger
• Jan 6, 2020

 

[Stunger]

I had that happen to a plant 2 years ago. I had topped the plant, and the split occurred during late flowering at the same node where I'd topped, with one of the two main branches pulling away, splitting the mainstem. I thought it was because of the weight of the bud. The plant was unharmed and produced great weed, but I did wonder later if that stressed her, causing hermies (I never saw any nanners but found lots of S1 selfed seeds in her bud).

Hi Emeraldo, in that event of what happened to your plant 2 years ago, assuming that plant gave you a high quality bud yield, would you view those resulting self seeded seeds as being fine to grow out? Is the risk of hermie offspring high risk or still a relatively low risk?

 

[Stunger]

Hi. I know Stunger spoke to this. Here’s my tuppence. Political pressure against legalisation is not overt. ACC have increased premiums for employers who don’t do random drug testing. My firm is bringing it in in a cpl months because they’ll save money.
I’m optimistic because Canberra has legalised (mind you, they did 30 yrs ago and it got changed back). I’m optimistic because even the most entrenched right wing NZer takes a bit of a pause when they think Australia is getting one up on them.
Try asking that person if we should change the name of our country to Aotearoa. You can hear the garbage and grumbling already, right? Then explain to that person our national anthem will be played before Australia’s at Olympic and Commonwealth Games. Watch their half dead eyes glaze over. Sad.



I’ve not grown an auto yet. It sounds like you cut lower than with a photo period. Your keepers on the auto are the ones I take for clones on a photo.

Garden’s rocking

Hi DD,
I didn't realize that about the ACC, that is good news for the Yes vote. I hope people wake up to Helen Clark saying it would be better to legalize it too. I would love to be able to legally grow a few plants a year.

Previously with topping I went the Fluxing route and I followed Light Addicts recommendation on micro topping, hence no 'stub' is left as it breaks off clean. This season I only went into Quadlining as an afterthought, which by then I had topped above the 3rd node but I hadn't yet got around to cutting off the 1st and 2nd node growth, so when it occurred to me I could Quadline these I then only cut off the 1st node and grew out nodes 2 and 3 for Quadlining training. This season I have trained the main arms to curl around the pot some way before letting them go vertical, it is my attempt to limit the overall height these plants get to, because for the plants last year the I had to get balcony rail herb planters to cover the plant's height from the neighbors. With an Auto if it is one that will grow a bit, then I am thinking a similar topping above the 3rd node in early growth might be the ideal time to do it if all things look good.

 

[DonkeyDick]

Morning Koro
Love the strapping on the split! You shoulda been a physiotherapist
That’s going to heal nicely.

4-WWG

One of those modern kids; gender fluid. Follow it to see which bathroom it uses

Hi Emeraldo, in that event of what happened to your plant 2 years ago, assuming that plant gave you a high quality bud yield, would you view those resulting self seeded seeds as being fine to grow out? Is the risk of hermie offspring high risk or still a relatively low risk?

I understand* that the hermie gene is recessive. Self seeded S1 fems are what we’re after.
(*that said, I am a donkey).

Hi DD,
I didn't realize that about the ACC, that is good news for the Yes vote. I hope people wake up to Helen Clark saying it would be better to legalize it too. I would love to be able to legally grow a few plants a year.

Previously with topping I went the Fluxing route and I followed Light Addicts recommendation on micro topping, hence no 'stub' is left as it breaks off clean. This season I only went into Quadlining as an afterthought, which by then I had topped above the 3rd node but I hadn't yet got around to cutting off the 1st and 2nd node growth, so when it occurred to me I could Quadline these I then only cut off the 1st node and grew out nodes 2 and 3 for Quadlining training. This season I have trained the main arms to curl around the pot some way before letting them go vertical, it is my attempt to limit the overall height these plants get to, because for the plants last year the I had to get balcony rail herb planters to cover the plant's height from the neighbors. With an Auto if it is one that will grow a bit, then I am thinking a similar topping above the 3rd node in early growth might be the ideal time to do it if all things look good.

That LA is one inspirational guy! I’d love to have the space to grow an enormous fluxed plant.
I do the same thing with training around the pot to try to reduce the footprint while increasing yield.

 

[Emeraldo]

Hi Emeraldo, in that event of what happened to your plant 2 years ago, assuming that plant gave you a high quality bud yield, would you view those resulting self seeded seeds as being fine to grow out? Is the risk of hermie offspring high risk or still a relatively low risk?

I did grow out two S1 seeds from the 2017 Purple Maroc the next year, in 2018. The plants grew vigorously in veg and I even harvested one of them (the other I chopped before going on vacation because I didn't trust it wouldn't go hermie, just the way she looked). The one I kept until harvest was a beautiful plant, and I did not see any nanners on her. However, after harvest I went traveling and unfortunately the weed got moldy in the jars during drying. So it was a positive growing experience, hehe, if you just focus on the growing part. I took good care to avoid stress, and the harvest went well. Then I, Emeraldo, duly fucked it up by not drying correctly.

To your general question: You never know for sure what plant is going to come up, even with "new" seeds. There are variations that will express themselves unless the strain has been back-crossed multiple times to stabilize. For my 2019 semi-guerilla balcony grow I bought Spliff's Jack F-1 seeds from Cannapot, which Spliff's says "grows like an indica but is sativa". I got two phenos, both excellent weed, but the point is what Spliffs had selected for (indica looking) may be dominant but my second plant was a variation they didn't mention: a huge sativa looker. The only difference is the bud on the sativa looker is a bit fluffier, and the bud on the indica are hard.

Seedbanks would say that selfed offspring from a feminized plant are prone to self-pollination. I don't really have enough experience to say to what extent that is true. In fact, my 2018 experience with growing S-1 seeds suggests it was totally ok to grow out that first generation of selfed seed. I assume (from reading) that doing this over many generations could lead to instability in the characteristics you might like about the first generation, which makes growing S-1 seeds less promising. Imagine making all the effort to grow and finding you harvested crap.

Seedbanks sometimes say you're "polluting the gene pool" by growing out those S-1 seeds. I think that is a "self-serving" (pun intended) statement. After all, the seedbanks want to you just buy more feminized seed.

This year I've ordered regular seed from several strains. I have to remember to watch out for the males. Apart from the breeding opportunites, I like knowing that any females will have less risk of hermaphroditism.

 

[Stunger]

That LA is one inspirational guy! I’d love to have the space to grow an enormous fluxed plant.
I do the same thing with training around the pot to try to reduce the footprint while increasing yield.

I agree on LA. I really liked his Fluxing the plants. This season is only the first time that I have Quadlined and I haven't got to harvest yet, but I think I'll favor Quadlining for all future height restricted outdoor grows going on this so far.