Outdoor Organic Balcony Stealth Quadlining: White Widow/Gorgonzola

[Stunger]

That's how I see it too, the timeline should be the same but opposite between northern and southern hemispheres, I would assume they would be fairly similar.

Previously I have only ever noticed the first pistils showing in January, about 2 months after the summer solstice. These were 1 month before! A friend has told me his girls are also flowering now too, he only saw this the first time today and from their development we figure they probably also kicked off close to a month before the summer solstice! Also, he is trying some new and different strains to mine.

But if all goes well it would presumably mean a welcome early harvest. Altho, I hadn't been expecting such an early start to flowering and I thought my plants would develop much more impressively if they were to still have 6 weeks of veg ahead! Never mind, the main thing now is to just keep them happy.

 

[Stunger]

I did some checking. AMS still carries White Widow XTRM (regular, 60% indica/40% sativa) and Gorgonzola (only in feminized, but 25% indica/75% sativa), both are said to need 8/9 weeks flowering and would be harvestable "September/October". These are very common ranges. If we assume, reasonably, that harvest might be at the second week of October, then count back 8/9 weeks. Flowering might start around beginning of August, which would translate generally to February in the southern hemisphere.

If my math is correct, your crossed plant (WW/GG) is about 42.5% indica / 57.5% sativa, which ought to be very close to my Jack Herer this year (45/55), and I can tell you that is a great balance in the effect. Your straight WW will be a nice complement to that.

However, is it correct that your Gorgonzola plant was from feminized seed? If that is so, I'd suspect that the seed resulting in your WW/GG might have been genetically unstable, and for that reason I'd be on the lookout for hermies. If you have any hermies/nanners, that might explain early flowering (but hermies don't usually show up this early).

Maybe you just didn't see the pre-flowering changes in the plants last year?

I think you started your grow quite a bit earlier this year as well. Maybe that is a factor.

Anyway, I still don't get why either strain would start flowering in November (while the days are still getting longer!), unless it is just a mature plant putting out an early pre-flower. It may be that the plant is just getting its ducks in a row, preparing, and will not yet go into full blown flowering mode. However, a potentially long flowering time is a blessing as you may be able to harvest early or, at least, you won't be under stress because winter is coming on (like my own situation last month).

Yes the Gorgonzola was sold as feminized.

This season I soaked the seeds for germinating on the 16th September. Last season's was early/mid October, 3 - 4 weeks later. But even so, the plants this year are probably 6 weeks ahead on their development to last year which I'd put down being topped only once and just LST'd. Last season in comparison I think I overly hard pruned, which in hindsight probably stunted the growth a little.

It is unexpected for flowering to occur when the days are still getting longer. However, today a growing friend has reported the same happening to him, different strains too. Hopefully it all progressing as usual and I escape the wet start to Autumn as well as the benefits of an early harvest.

 

[Emeraldo]

Strange days have found us. Photoperiod plants that flower whilst the daylength grows longer? The shortening days of fall are what is supposed to trigger flowering. That's fundamental to what we know. There must be something else going on here. If there are other growers down under who see that happening, then it is a huge mystery.

I doubt the last word has been spoken on that.

 

[Stunger]

That the plants have begun flowering when the days are still getting longer, i.e. starting nearly 4 weeks before the Summer solstice is very hard to explain. But as a completely 'out there' suggestion, this Spring/Summer has resulted in our neighbor, Australia, having severe bush fire problems, so much that the smoke and ash is blowing 2000 plus kilometers across the sea to NZ and turning some of the NZ glaciers and snow on the mountains pink. Surely these events didn't cause the plants to freak out and go into flowering mode earlier than usual - did they??!? Other than that, it is a mystery to me.

This morning I did another foliar feed, using the spray on the vegetable garden too.
1.5 liters de-chlorinated water
2ml 'Seasol' seaweed liquid concentrate
2ml humic/fulvic acids
2ml fish hydroslate
3 drops organic dish soap as a surfactant

The plants are still looking good, I am still waiting for multiple 'balls' to show on 1-WW and 4-WWG to confirm that they are males.

 

[Stunger]

After the foliar feed this morning I did another Brix reading this afternoon, which confirmed a similar result to last time. The scale of my refractometer only goes up to 20% and today's reading is very close to the limit of the scale as the blue color was only just showing at the very top of the scale.

I bought the refractometer second hand for only a few dollars ($7.50 NZD) which was a bargain, I knew that Brix levels over 12% is considered ideal and if they can get up to 18% that is really good. So I thought a refractometer with a scale going up to 20% was all I would need. I can now see having a scale that goes to 32% would be better for these plants.

My 3 Quadlined plants in the pic are still looking really healthy and happy to my eye, the leftmost 2 plants (3-WWG & 2-WW) are female. The right most one (1-WW) is a suspected male, which is a shame as it looks great too, but as soon as it shows multiple balls I'll chop it and kick off a Gorilla Glue auto in it's place. If it is a boy I wish it would just hurry up and show it's balls so I can replace it!

Brix reading 11 December 2019

• Stunger
• Dec 10, 2019

Refractometer only goes to 20%, almost off the scale

11 dec.jpg

• Stunger
• Dec 10, 2019

 

[Emeraldo]

Your plants are looking good. Can you post a photo or two showing the pistils closer up? Just wondered what these super early flowers look like at this early stage.

I have to say I am still a bit puzzled about the science of measuring brix in cannabis, I mean, how does this information help? What does the plant do with the sugar? Is high brix more inducive to producing THC or other cannabinoids? How would high brix affect the recreational effect or the medicinal qualities? Would high brix tend to raise potency? Do you have any studies, info or sources on this subject?

 

[Stunger]

Re gardening for high Brix; I am not 100% clear on it myself. I understand the levels are commonly measured using a refractometer which I happened to buy when I spotted one going cheaply (nothing to lose). However, my soil was last years super soil that had been grown in and re-amended. I think it is fair to say that traditionally when it comes to amending soil it is primarily along the lines of NPK. I understand that gardening for Brix levels places a lot of importance on Calcium levels and 'mineralized' soil. After last seasons grow I bought some lime/mussel/oyster shell mix that was sold as a Brix type amendment.

The question about whether high Brix cannabis is more potent, I really don't know but I have seen a number of posts and threads by people seemingly swearing to it taking organic grown cannabis to the 'next level'. DocBud has threads with a lot of posting about growing cannabis for high brix levels and Icemud as well, I was a bit overwhelmed by the hundreds of pages of posting and have only read little bits and pieces. I understand that often in high Brix that people advocate foliar feeding which I have done these past 3 weeks. The idea of getting the Brix level up, or at least over 12% is that the plant is then considered to become more pest resistant over that level. So far it does seem that my plants are devoid of any aphids and bugs that I would probably normally be seeing, but the real test to me, will be how they go from now to harvest, as in the past it is in the flowering period that my grows have shown problems.

Last season I never used any lime amendment and experienced extreme paling of my plants during flowering. I also took on board your thoughts about the usefulness of amending with some dolomite lime which the above ground shell mix had included. I didn't start from a Brix base because I re-used last season's soil. But I did further amend it with additional mineral/scoria/rock dust/gypsum with the view to supply some Brix type amendments. I did this very much by gut feeling and guesswork. I have to say, I am quite surprised with how well my plants are progressing (at least to my eye they appear to be going very well). I think it is fair to say that so far they look better than my previous grows. But I am well aware it is early days yet, and still so many things can go wrong, but if they are flowering now, and continue to do so at a normal rate of progression then it is possible that an early harvest could be obtained by end of February. From the pics below, there are no clusters of pistils on the top of the flowers yet, the pistils are just amongst the nodes at this point, which I think is fairly normal, I am expecting clusters of flowers to be showing in another 2 or 3 weeks on the cola sites.

Here is a pic of each pistil showing plant (2-WW & 3-WWG) and a couple of pics each of the pistils at their nodes.
2-WW

2-WW

• Stunger
• Dec 12, 2019

2.5 weeks since showing first pistils

2-WW - pistils visible

• Stunger
• Dec 12, 2019

2-WW - pistils visible

• Stunger
• Dec 12, 2019

3-WWG

3-WWG

• Stunger
• Dec 12, 2019

2.5 weeks since showing first pistils

3-WWG

• Stunger
• Dec 12, 2019

3-WWG

• Stunger
• Dec 12, 2019

 

[Emeraldo]

Nice pistils. Yes, I think by the end of February you should be getting ready to harvest. That is a fairly early harvest, but by no means unheard of, I would think. How many days "from seed" is your auto strain said to be ripe?

 

[Stunger]

I don't know how many days from seed. The seeds are 420 Gorilla Glue Auto, they describe the plant as reaching full flowering in 6-8 weeks, and flowering to last 8 weeks. From that, I am imagining maybe 3.5 months give or take.

Something to add re Brix. High Brix levels can be arrived at via organic or non organic means, apparently a lot of organic grown produce may have fairly low brix levels. Personally, I take a living organic soil approach.

Usually you see Brix mentioned about fruit and vegetables, where plants become more pest and disease resistant and how they taste nicer/sweeter with better flavor. And also how fruit and vegetables will tend to rot at low Brix levels but at high Brix levels they instead tend to just dehydrate. With fruit and veges it is about taste and nutrient density/nutrition. So I have no idea how that translates to THC/cannabinoid levels/potency in cannabis. Altho some people are quite passionate in their belief it improves the quality, I have yet to verify that.

 

[Emeraldo]

I don't know how many days from seed. The seeds are 420 Gorilla Glue Auto, they describe the plant as reaching full flowering in 6-8 weeks, and flowering to last 8 weeks. From that, I am imagining maybe 3.5 months give or take....

I checked 420 and you're right, they don't say how many "days from seed". Often, I've seen autoflowering seed said to be ready to harvest within so many "days from seed". This fits with autoflowering because they are on their own clock and do not depend on shortening of daylength.

I am not sure 420 really mean a full 8 weeks "flowering time" (in addition to veg), that sound like regular photoperiod plants. But I've not grown auto, so it will be interesting to see how yours flower and when.

 

[Stunger]

I checked 420 and you're right, they don't say how many "days from seed". Often, I've seen autoflowering seed said to be ready to harvest within so many "days from seed". This fits with autoflowering because they are on their own clock and do not depend on shortening of daylength.

I am not sure 420 really mean a full 8 weeks "flowering time" (in addition to veg), that sound like regular photoperiod plants. But I've not grown auto, so it will be interesting to see how yours flower and when.

I wasn't quite sure what 420 meant, but they described their Gorilla Glue Auto as reaching full flowering in 6-8 weeks, and flowering to last 8 weeks. I had assumed full flowering to mean when the pistils are seen to be underway, from which point harvest would be 8 weeks later, while the period from seed to finishing veg and reaching flowering to be 6-8 weeks, on those assumptions I was guessing they mean about 3.5/4 months from seed to harvest.

I have been reading that link you mentioned previously on Canna Boost Vs Molasses. I am only up to page 51 currently just where she's discussing the results. It is very interesting. Altho like many really interesting threads there is so much filler of other poster's well meaning comments that can result in them being somewhat long reads. I felt that way when reading praise of a thread by DocBud about High Brix, it was over a thousand pages long if I recall correctly, it was so long and slow going, that I haven't yet returned to it unfortunately.

However, the comparison grows of Canna Boost and Molasses was interesting. Currently, touch wood, my Quadlined plants seem to be really healthy. The last 2 seasons I have been taking a living organic soil approach with mixed results. Last season, my plants developed severe paleness early in flowering. This season my Quadliners are looking seemingly great which I put down to taking your advice on adding Dolomite Lime and the additional Brix inspired amendments that I added. Plus, I tried foliar feeding for the very first time this grow, twice a week, now for almost 3 weeks, they seem to be good with it, and my amateur testing of Brix levels seems to suggest that they like the foliar feeds, so I will probably continue them for maybe another 2 weeks or so, as long as they seem to be benefiting from them and I am not creating a budrot/mold risk, only foliar feed them on windy sunny days. But the Canna Boost/Molasses discussion has caused me to wonder whether I should give the plants something like that too? Did you try it? I have some Canna Bio-Vega and Bio-Flores and PK 13/14, from an earlier grow. I realize my plants are probably right at that point in early flowering for such additives to be given. I know molasses would still be considered organic, but now I wonder with a sense of greed whether I should give them a small amount of PK 13/14 too which is supposed to create a boost, or even get some of that Canna Boost as well because about now is the time to dish it out if one is going give it. I don't really want to use anything that could 'chemicalize' the bud, but I tell myself that it may be pretty minimally adverse the effect on my otherwise organic soil grown plants. But the greedy attraction is the mention of resulting buds that are bigger fatter heavier and laden with far more trichomes. Any thoughts?

 

[Emeraldo]

As for the severe pale color (I assume pale green and not yellow) in early flowering last year, I guess we don't know how that happened. It may have been a deficiency. You need to diagnose that this year if it happens.

But as you know, the nutrient needs change when flowering starts. They need less N, so don't add any more! They also need more P in the form of additional fish bone meal or whatever you use, just top dressing is what I do. If you see yellow streaks in the leaves during late veg / early flowering, it can be a calcium deficiency.

 

[Stunger]

This morning I did another foliar feed, I have done 3 weeks bi-weekly and this is now the 4th week of foliar feeding. I used the leftover spray on the vegetable garden.
1.5 liters de-chlorinated water
2.5ml 'Seasol' seaweed liquid concentrate
3ml humic/fulvic acids
3ml fish hydroslate
3 drops organic dish soap as a surfactant

I feel so sure that 1-WW and 4-WWG will turn out to be males, but real confirmation to me is when they show multiple balls. I'd really like to skip the waiting and kick off a Gorilla Glue Auto to make use of their containers while I still have time before Christmas to do so. But I really want that confirmation as then in the future I should be able to confidently identify such males from their early pre-flower appearance.

Of my 3 Quadlined plants, the confirmed female 2-WW is a little bit lighter that the other two. Still looks great but not as dark green in the leaves as the other two, it is in the smaller container (30 liter/7.5 gallon) so maybe it has less Nitrogen(?) in the soil reserves than the 2 larger 50 liter/12.5 gallon containers of her brother and sister. I'll have to be careful in case it worsens, I hope not as I don't want a repeat of last season's progressive paling to yellow.

2-WW it is still looking good but distinctly paler now

• Stunger
• Dec 15, 2019

 

[Stunger]

It is a bit of windy blowy night out there tonight and I am reflecting on the soil and amendments I have given to my 4 main containers. Two of them are 30 liter/7.5 gallon pots and two are 50 liter/12.5 gallon pots. I mixed up a batch of 'super soil' for last season's grow. It was based on the various super soil recipes out there but I ended up creating a mixture that was my own best stab at putting it together with what I could source locally. I was always mindful on not being too heavy handed on the amendments. After last season's grow, I re-amended the containers several months ago and they have had, I think, a fairly generous several months to cook/settle. Shortly before kicking them off with this season's grow I tipped the soil out again and re-mixed with further amendments, in particular adding additional gypsum and dolomite and ground oyster/mussel shell and rock dust/scoria. Of the 4 plants from regular seeds;
1-WW (quadlined white widow - 50 liter pot - suspected male)
2-WW (quadlined white widow - 30 liter pot - confirmed female)
3-WWG (quadlined white widow/gorgonzola - 50 liter pot - confirmed female)
4-WWG (up-topped white widow/gorgonzola - 30 liter pot -suspected male)

I would like to get absolute confirmation of the 2 suspected males before I give them the chop. But what I am reflecting on tonight is the appearance of them. They have now been growing 3 months from seed.

The 3 Quadlined plants are looking really good, altho I have noticed in the last week that the middle one in the pic (2-WW) appears a little bit lighter than a week ago. It is in a smaller container too (30 liter), compared to the 2 plants on either side in 50 liter containers. So there is less soil and therefore less quantity of amendments available to the plant compared to the other 2 plants in bigger pots on either side of it which are a nice deep green which appears to me as indicating that they happy and healthy. I hope the middle one is also happy and healthy, maybe the slight lightening of color is just because the plant has started flowering, the plant to the left of it in the pic has also started flowering but so far is a little behind it.
The un-topped suspected male (4-WWG) doesn't look too great, it looks below the healthy range of color, paler than ideal I feel, but I think it is a male and I will chop it as soon as that is confirmed so I am not bothered with dealing with it.

I would say that thus far I have amended the soil conservatively, as many folk have advised to be careful not to overdo the amendments, which I think is good advice too. I have foliar fed bi-weekly for the last 3.5 weeks, I have watered the plants with diluted worm wee. My feeling is the 2 quadlined plants on the left and right sides, appear perfect in coloration. The one is the middle looks good but I am mindful that it appears to have lightened a little this week.

So the 2 plants growing in the bigger 50 liter containers look great, but the 2 plants growing in 30 liter containers are less so. Which makes me think that I could have increased the amendment quantities a little bit more and will consider doing that when planning for next season's grow.

This weekend just gone I visited a friend to see how his grow was going. His cannabis plants, as well as his vegetable garden plants too, all appeared to be growing really well, everything was a nice deep green color. He had buried fish and fish guts into his soil some months ago, and also he had amended with far more generous quantities of sheep manure and blood and bone than I had. So I am now thinking in future I probably need to be a little more generous when re-amending next time.

I have read some interesting posts on using Canna Boost as well as molasses for the flowering stage. And CalMag gets mentioned a lot. I have found a shop nearby selling Flairform CMX (Calcium/Magnesium & Iron) as well as the Canna Boost, altho when I read the symptoms for using Flairform CMX it didn't seem to apply to my female 2-WW (altho could be worth trying on 4-WWG as a guinea pig to see how it goes). My soil thus far has been a living organic soil with earthworms happily living in it, so I am not sure about adding the Boost product to it, altho if it greatly increases bud yield and potency it would be rather compelling to use it, and if so probably sometime very soon. The 4 plants photographed are below.

from L-R; 3-WWG(f), 2-WW(f), 1-WW (suspected male)

• Stunger
• Dec 16, 2019

4-WWG

• Stunger
• Dec 16, 2019

untopped White Widow/Gorgonzola

 

[Emeraldo]

Stunger, you might explore whether or not your pale plants need a bit more nitrogen. Obviously you do not have a severe N deficiency, but paleness is a signal that nitrogen is needed. Did you add a generous amount of nitrogen in making your amendments? Organic sources include cottonseed meal and horn meal (slow to deliver), blood meal, bat guano (quick delivery), also chicken poop (very hot so watch out).

Contrary to what some folks think about manure, my research led me to conclude that just straight manure does not add much N, it's like less than 1% so there are better N sources. I'm not knocking manure as a soil component, but it isn't really nitrogen rich. Adding a small amount of manure will not provide enough.

You might check out this page: How to fix Cannabis Nitrogen Deficiency (N) Pics & Symptoms -- scroll down to the third picture. Is that what your middle plant looks like?

Looking at your last photo, the untopped "male", I would say that is a nitrogen deficiency. You can see the mid-range leaves need nitrogen because they are turning yellow.

 

[Stunger]

Stunger, you might explore whether or not your pale plants need a bit more nitrogen. Obviously you do not have a severe N deficiency, but paleness is a signal that nitrogen is needed. Did you add a generous amount of nitrogen in making your amendments? Organic sources include cottonseed meal and horn meal (slow to deliver), blood meal, bat guano (quick delivery), also chicken poop (very hot so watch out).

Contrary to what some folks think about manure, my research led me to conclude that just straight manure does not add much N, it's like less than 1% so there are better N sources. I'm not knocking manure as a soil component, but it isn't really nitrogen rich. Adding a small amount of manure will not provide enough.

You might check out this page: How to fix Cannabis Nitrogen Deficiency (N) Pics & Symptoms -- scroll down to the third picture. Is that what your middle plant looks like?

Looking at your last photo, the untopped "male", I would say that is a nitrogen deficiency. You can see the mid-range leaves need nitrogen because they are turning yellow.

I feel now that I probably erred too much on the side of caution when I mixed up and amended my soil. That was possibly the problem last season that my supersoil just wasn't "super" enough on it's own, next time I will add more. Also too, I was uncertain about adding nitrogen at the flowering stage. But the pale untopped plant I believe will soon confirm itself to be a male. Today, I added about half a cup of blood and bone to it's container and watered it in. I wasn't necessarily wanting to continue with using blood and bone but the untopped plant I am sure will turn out a male so it will be no loss to see how it responds in the coming days and then I can learn from it.

Comparing my middle plant to the third pic down in that link, I think my plant is a little darker than that, and it is more new growth at the top where the flowers develop where it is a little lighter. Hopefully it will continue fine, but if it shows further lightening then to me it would suggest the smaller 30 liter pots don't contain enough nutrients, Nitrogen being one of them.

 

[Emeraldo]

If you think you need a quick fix to this problem, you might try top dress, sprinkling some nitrogen rich nutrients into the soil and working them in a bit, then watering. I don't think adding nitrogen during flowering is a problem if you have a deficiency. The lower range leaves are pale because the plant is moving N (a mobile element) away from the lower range of leaves up to the growing points. Nitrogen is also needed during flowering, albeit not as much as in veg.

 

[Emeraldo]

As for the severe pale color (I assume pale green and not yellow) in early flowering last year, I guess we don't know how that happened. It may have been a deficiency. You need to diagnose that this year if it happens.

But as you know, the nutrient needs change when flowering starts. They need less N, so don't add any more! They also need more P in the form of additional fish bone meal or whatever you use, just top dressing is what I do. If you see yellow streaks in the leaves during late veg / early flowering, it can be a calcium deficiency.

I wrote that thinking that you had added enough N when amending this year. But I now think your plants need more N because of the yellowing leaves on your untopped plant. I hadn't seen that yellowing so clearly before, but the latest picture is very clear. Cannabis needs a lot of N, particularly in veg, so I add various sources of N (cottonseed meal, horn meal, bat guano, blood meal, alphalfa, etc.) when mixing the soil and then I don't need to add more N later for flowering. I think if you act now and do a generous top dressing, your N deficiency will disappear.

 

[Stunger]

Yes, I see now that I was too conservative in mixing my soil. I went with the less is more approach, which I gather works really well when there is lots of soil biology to help release the nutrients and make them available to the plant's roots. My mix was organic but it wouldn't have had anything much established in the soil biology. Last year's grow started off great then I think, as you say, they ran out of available Nitrogen, and went on to pale and yellow off quite badly, terminally, they were more or less dying as I was holding off chopping while trying to will the trichomes to make it to amber, few did.

This grow, I re-amended the containers once, and then again shortly before planting in them this time, the green pot with the tall pale un-topped plant might have missed the second round of amendments that the 3 Quadlined pots got, and hence could be the reason it is noticeably pale.

I am guessing my Widow female (2-WW) is not too bad, almost fine, I am hesitant to risk giving her a handful of blood and bone if she doesn't not need it. I read somewhere warning too much Nitrogen can be counter productive to bud yield. Of course no one is talking about wanting to give too much, and I am considering sprinkling a handful of blood and bone on her container, which being Quadlined it is covered in a lattice of branches which makes it rather hard to work any of it into the soil, but I imagine a handful wont be negative, maybe even prudent, it's flowering period is still at a very early stage. I'll see what the tall plant (4-WWG) looks like in the next day or two, see what effect if any it shows. It probably looks better already as I picked off it's yellowed/dead leaves today. But it is hard to say if I noticed any difference after giving it a handful of Blood and Bone 1 day ago.

I gave them all each a 2 liter thick worm wee dilution today. The other female (3-WWG) continues to look fully 100% green altho it seems slower in pistil development than it's step sister (2-WW) who is maybe 95% green and still looks good, I think.

I will definitely look to increase amendments by a percentage in the future. Besides, my soil gets to cook/settle for months which presumably would help smoothing out any inadvertent nutrient spikes before it is re-used again. I am very interested in adding soil biology inoculants, I don't know if this is the same or similar to Boost products, what I have seen locally has a similar amount of molasses and soil inoculent mixed in warm water, and ideally kept warm for 24 hours then use after that.

 

[Emeraldo]

It can be easy to get carried away with N. Nute burn is quite common when using bottled nutes. Canna, or whatever. It is so easy to give too much of that strong concentrated stuff. But at some point you have to face the fact that giving more N than the plant needs doesn't make the plant grow faster and in fact blocks the plant from uptake of what it needs.

That isn't your situation. I'd say you've not given enough. It's the other end of the spectrum. Looks like N deficiency.

Maybe it's just the one pot of soil with the untopped male, but the middle one in the trio is also a bit pale. I would worry about not having enough N with those two. With organic growing, it's actually hard to overdo it, you don't have the same problem as with bottled nutes. The plants can handle a nitrogen-rich soil environment and they just take what they need. Chicken manure pellets can burn, it's true. However, some of the other sources I listed are slow release (horn meal, cottonseed meal, alfalfa meal) and in moderation are not going to burn.

I use 1 cup of each of those three (horn, cottonseed, alfalfa meal) per 30 L container, plus I also add 1/4 cup each of bat guano and blood meal. I use no more than 1/4 cup of chicken manure pellets per tub.