Outdoor Organic Balcony Stealth Quadlining: White Widow/Gorgonzola

[Stunger]

Looks like a great supersoil ingredient! Guano Phosphate Fertiliser | Fertile Fields Ltd

Worth noting: this guano phosphate product has a pH value of 8+, so it is said to offer a "liming effect" of raising pH. The amount you are going to use in your 50 gallon container is not going to move the needle there, but it's good to know.

Yes, that is exactly the one I'm using. And as you say it isn't a huge dose I have used. 1/8 cup is 2 tablespoons (30ml), plus 2 tablespoons of the Blood n Bone, with slightly less for the smaller pot.

 

[Emeraldo]

Looking forward to seeing your newest photos!

 

[Stunger]

Looking forward to seeing your newest photos!

Cheers Emeraldo. I'll put some up very shortly, as soon as I stealthily can.

 

[Stunger]

Lets start with an update on the 420 Gorilla Glue Auto who is now 4 week old. I have never grown an Auto before so I hope I don't screw it up.

My original intention was to Quadline her, but then I read InTheShed's tutorial on LST and thought that given the limited life of an auto that training the plant with his approach would save the cutting/topping of her in order to Quadline. I had LST'ed plants before but always after they have grown 'wild' (after the horse had bolted) and consequently bending down the main stem and using lots of ungainly ties to pull all the limbs down, I found it messy. His approach was very sensible and straight forward, especially for an auto. And trying it out on this auto seemed a great approach. The link to his tutorial is @InTheShed How I perform LST, low stress training, on my plants: lots of pics! Sorry I need to work out how to add a link properly.

I initially pre-soaked the seed for about 12 hours and planted it without doing the paper towel step and waiting for a tap root. It sprouted from the soil 3 days later. For clarity, I am counting the day of sprouting from the soil as day 1.
1-GGa - day 1

1-GGa

• Stunger
• Jan 1, 2020

420: Gorilla Glue Auto

1-GGa - day 14 prior to beginning LST training

Gorilla Glue Auto (1-GGa) 14 days since sprouting from the soil

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 14 LST training commenced

1-GGa LST training begins at 14 days

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• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 17

1-GGa - 17 days

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• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 17 small split occurs when too much pressure applied

1-GGa small split developed at 17 days

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• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 19

1-GGa - 19 days

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• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 22

1-GGa - 22 days

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• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 28

1-GGa - 28 days, main stem trained towards the pot rim.

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

1-GGa - day 28

1-GGa - 28 days

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

Pistils developed in 4th week, showing on 5th and 6th nodes
1-GGa - day 28

1-GGa - preflowers on 5th and 6th nodes developing pistils

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

At 28 days 1-GGa has 6 nodes + the growth shoot of the 7th, and pistils

I am very pleased with it's progress so far, it appears to be growing very strongly, more virulently than my photoperiod plants have done in their first month (altho I did start the photos off in colder Spring weather). And now after 4 weeks the auto has started flowering. I am hoping that the plant can grow plenty more so there is enough foundation growth for a good amount of bud. I am wondering if, say, there is only 8 - 10 weeks to go how much bud will develop. It's just wait with fingers crossed and see what happens I guess.

 

[Stunger]

My 2 Quadlined photo girls have really been putting on the stretch. I am guessing the stretching will finish in the next week and the real bloom period will begin any day now where budlets develop and show at the top of the branches on what will be future colas. In fact they are stretching so much I've had to reinstate the herb planters on the balcony rails to hopefully obscure their growth from the neighbor's line of sight, especially the bigger girl (3-WWG) in the larger 50 liter pot, it's top growth is now threatening to exceed the balcony rails. I am wondering whether to employ some super cropping which so far I haven't done in a grow before, except last season when I experimented on supercropping a male the day when I gave it the chop just to get some hands on experience in bending the branches in a supercropping manner. I need to look into whether there is still time to do that or whether now is a good time for that, or simply let them go and hope they don't get too much taller.

I am still watering them with diluted 'worm wee' at least a couple of times a day (I do so because of how aerated the pots are with their drilled out holes), I have also given them foliar feeds weekly, I may do one more and if so I will probably then stop doing any more foliar feeds. Other than that, they continue to appear happy and healthy.

Here are the Quadlined girls, hopefully positioned well for the blooming to come!

Foreground 2-WW, background 3-WW

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

From L - R; 2-WW & 3-WWG

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

3-WWG she has stretched a lot in a week

• Stunger
• Jan 30, 2020

3-WWG & 1-GGa

• Stunger
• Jan 29, 2020

 

[Emeraldo]

All are looking really good Stunger. That auto is coming along nicely. And the photoperiods are stretchingggg! If you are concerned about stealth, I wouldn't hesitate to supercrop. Just squeeze & roll the stems between two fingers at the point where you want to bend them and slowly bend them over, they will recover in a matter of hours.

 

[Stunger]

All are looking really good Stunger. That auto is coming along nicely. And the photoperiods are stretchingggg! If you are concerned about stealth, I wouldn't hesitate to supercrop. Just squeeze & roll the stems between two fingers at the point where you want to bend them and slowly bend them over, they will recover in a matter of hours.

Thanks Emeraldo!

The Auto is powering along, from day to day I can see the growth from overnight. I have had no prior experience with Autos but so far it is looking very promising. My original thoughts were to force a branch to produce pollen, but I will now leave that for another time so I can get the best result first with this one, rather than stuff it up and wonder what might have been.

The stretching. Hmmm.... These 2 Quadlined girls are going better and more virulently than all my previous grows. I made a point this season to train their laterals right to the pot rim and the main 4 Quad arms I have even train to curve around the rims some way before allowing them to go vertical. However, in spite of that they have still grown and stretched much further than last season's grow. I think your observation is right re the stretching, they are gaining an inch or two every day, I am not sure when they will reach the point that they will stop. But they have already got so far that it looks like they'll be poking over the top of my 'stealth barrier'. Hmmm... again, I am a bit concerned about that. I feel I will have to resort to Supercropping, something I haven't yet had real experience on. The trouble is how far down shall I go to apply the 'supercropping bend'. There are several branches that I deem too tall, but maybe I need to supercrop most of the tall tops and do so perhaps 8 - 10 inches (20 cm) or so.

I am having to consider this because of my need for some semblance of stealth.

1) Is the end or near end of stretching considered to be a good time to apply supercropping? As it would be handy to know that while I am more or less forced to do supercropping now, that it is still considered a good time to do so.

2) Would you imagine that 8-10 inches/20cm or so would be the appropriate measure to apply supercropping or would you think do even further down?

OK, back to vacuum cleaning

Today I going flat out, busy cleaning the house, baking a cake, and have to pick the wife up from the airport later. I don't want to stuff up my potential colas at this point by being too rushed.

 

[Emeraldo]

1) Is the end or near end of stretching considered to be a good time to apply supercropping? As it would be handy to know that while I am more or less forced to do supercropping now, that it is still considered a good time to do so.

2) Would you imagine that 8-10 inches/20cm or so would be the appropriate measure to apply supercropping or would you think do even further down?

Supercropping is obviously done at a point where the plant could get too tall. By crushing branches (actually you "injure" the plant so that it will strengthen the branches and increase its flowering efforts). This can be done well into flowering, no problem, they say flowering is intensified. I've done it even 5 weeks into flowering.

In your situation, I would go for 10 inches below the top of the space. The bent branches will curve back up and maybe continue to grow up. It can turn out that supercropping alone may not be enough for your needs. I would also tie branches back, or down, just enough to keep them within the stealth space.

 

[Stunger]

Supercropping is obviously done at a point where the plant could get too tall. By crushing branches (actually you "injure" the plant so that it will strengthen the branches and increase its flowering efforts). This can be done well into flowering, no problem, they say flowering is intensified. I've done it even 5 weeks into flowering.

In your situation, I would go for 10 inches below the top of the space. The bent branches will curve back up and maybe continue to grow up. It can turn out that supercropping alone may not be enough for your needs. I would also tie branches back, or down, just enough to keep them within the stealth space.

Thanks Emeraldo,

I had a quick think and just decided to go for it after posting the previous post. I ended up bending back all the growth tips that were above the balcony rails. The majority of them were on the bigger girl (3-WWG). I did the 'squeeze' and gentle back and forth till they 'gave' a little. As I picked up the pace, some I just straight away bent without mucking around with foreplay. I had no 'snaps' occurring which was good, the bend points just slightly squashed out to accommodate the bending, probably some will have some mild splits, but nothing severe so I am not bothering with tape or anything.

They were all bent to 90 degrees but of course, as they recover they will 'rise up' somewhat. My feeling is I should not bend them back down again so I can let the plant recover at the injury points. However I wonder whether some sort of 'tape or wire brace' to keep them close to 90 degrees so the plant can heal to that position might be good, perhaps if I cut some very thin strips of electrical tape that after a few days I could peel them off without upsetting the plant once the injury has 'healed'?

Just a further thought, presumably once a branch is supercropped you don't really want to 're-bend' the same supercropped bend point, so if the branch recovers from a 90 degree bend to, say, a 45 degree bend, then it would presumably be better to choose a new point to supercrop to get the end of growth lower again?
Here's a pic of the bigger who got the most supercropping

3-WWG after a first go at supercropping

• Stunger
• Jan 30, 2020

 

[Emeraldo]

That's a fantastic looking plant!

Just at the beginning of flowering. A beautiful sight, ahhh...

As for supercropping going forward, I would continue to bend the branches down as soon as they exceed the allowed space. I guess you'd have to pinch a new crush at another point, right at the neighvbor's visibility line.

I suspect you'll want to use string to support the resulting long lanky branches when you get towards harvest, heavy with sotting bud. You can devise a string and a stake or whatever to support them up to a decent level, for light's sake, then hold them down again when they get too far. So there's a ceiling and a floor, you can use strings and supercropping to keep within the keep. Out of the snoopy neighbor's line of sight, but not hanging down to the ground, either.

 

[Stunger]

Thanks, I am rapt with the improvement over last year's grow, I am hoping if they can stay happy then hopefully flowering will produce some really happy buds and happy bud yields.

Last year my bigger plant was the Widow which grew in the larger 50 liter container, while the smaller plant was the Gorgonzola growing in the smaller 30 liter container. I thought at the time it was just because one was a bigger variety than the other. This year's Widow is growing in the smaller container and looking smaller while the Widow/Gorgonzola cross is looking big in the larger 50 liter container. I'll be really curious how the high of the cross will turn out, and how it will compare to it's step sister the Widow.

By this afternoon the supercropped limbs were mostly turning up at the ends, some had recovered to a lesser angle, others were still close to 90 degrees. The wind was 'jostling' them a bit, perhaps that would cause the plants a bit of stress as they tried to heal their crushed supercropped bends.

We've had a run of hot weather so far this Summer, or at least what we call hot in NZ. I think today was about 26C, but outside on the balcony even though there was a gusty summery wind it felt quite baking, like it normally does at this time of the year, where the stone tiles that the pots sit on, absorb and radiate out the heat. I thought to put the thermometer on them and then I forgot about it until it happened to be 6:34pm, at that time even though the sun's heat had lessened the thermometer was still 34C. I was quite surprised it was this high. But obviously that is usual because it was a normal hot/warm summer day here.

The auto seemed noticeably stronger day by day. Interesting my friend's grow of the same strain, both started on the same day, his one seems to have far longer inter nodal distances, altho mine is LST'd and mostly horizontal, his is a lot taller than mine is long, but mine has noticeably tighter node distances, it is possible my one has an extra node over his.

I gave them a late watering in the evening, I imagine they will have perked up a lot by the morning. I do a lot of imagining when I grow.

 

[Emeraldo]

Thanks, I am rapt with the improvement over last year's grow, I am hoping if they can stay happy then hopefully flowering will produce some really happy buds and happy bud yields.

Last year my bigger plant was the Widow which grew in the larger 50 liter container, while the smaller plant was the Gorgonzola growing in the smaller 30 liter container. I thought at the time it was just because one was a bigger variety than the other. This year's Widow is growing in the smaller container and looking smaller while the Widow/Gorgonzola cross is looking big in the larger 50 liter container. I'll be really curious how the high of the cross will turn out, and how it will compare to it's step sister the Widow.

Yes -- if I may state the obvious -- you have made a quantum leap from your 2019 grow. I guess 50L is about the same as a 15 gallon, it's a goodly amount of soil and the plants can get big. Plants in a 20 L container (or less) would tend to stay smaller, all things being equal. Less bud, better stealth.

Gorgonzola is a sativa dominant strain, WW a mostly indica, so it's not surprizing that the WW/G cross is the larger plant. The question is why the plants were so much smaller last year, but you figured that out: soil pH and nutrients are what you've changed, and you can see the results already.

My guess is the WW/G high would probably have more body than G, and also more of a head high than the WW. Best of both worlds...

By this afternoon the supercropped limbs were mostly turning up at the ends, some had recovered to a lesser angle, others were still close to 90 degrees. The wind was 'jostling' them a bit, perhaps that would cause the plants a bit of stress as they tried to heal their crushed supercropped bends.

Nah, these weeds are tough. Supercropping isn't "stress" like heat stress or stress from over- or underwatering. My experience is the plants will heal in a matter of hours.

Going forward (thinking again about heavy buds at harvest time), you might consider spreading out a nylon bird netting over the tops of your plants to hold up the heavy buds and at the same time give you something to tie the colas down to, to keep your stealth cover. You could stretch the netting across the top of both plants at the level of the balcony railing and below the "snoopy neighbor line of sight".

We've had a run of hot weather so far this Summer, or at least what we call hot in NZ. I think today was about 26C, but outside on the balcony even though there was a gusty summery wind it felt quite baking, like it normally does at this time of the year, where the stone tiles that the pots sit on, absorb and radiate out the heat. I thought to put the thermometer on them and then I forgot about it until it happened to be 6:34pm, at that time even though the sun's heat had lessened the thermometer was still 34C. I was quite surprised it was this high. But obviously that is usual because it was a normal hot/warm summer day here.

26 C is wonderful cannabis weather, doesn't get much better. If you are concerned about the hot tiles, why not cover the tiles with something that keeps the tiles around and under your containers in the shade? Other pots, wood, boxes of some kind, even a chair or table, to keep the sun off the tiles and reflect the heat away.

The auto seemed noticeably stronger day by day. Interesting my friend's grow of the same strain, both started on the same day, his one seems to have far longer inter nodal distances, altho mine is LST'd and mostly horizontal, his is a lot taller than mine is long, but mine has noticeably tighter node distances, it is possible my one has an extra node over his.

I gave them a late watering in the evening, I imagine they will have perked up a lot by the morning. I do a lot of imagining when I grow.

Gorilla Glue Auto (who is the breeder of this seed? there are several versions of this) has ruderalis, indica and sativa genetics as far I can tell from seedfinder.eu. I guess there could also be phenotypes. Maybe your particular plant is more indica- or ruderalis-leaning than your friend's.

Or -- lol -- maybe the seller got the seeds mixed up AGAIN!

Why the late watering? Did they suffer from the heat again today, too dry?

 

[Stunger]

Yes -- if I may state the obvious -- you have made a quantum leap from your 2019 grow. The question is why the plants were so much smaller last year, but you figured that out: soil pH and nutrients are what you've changed, and you can see the results already.

My guess is the WW/G high would probably have more body than G, and also more of a head high than the WW. Best of both worlds...



Nah, these weeds are tough. Supercropping isn't "stress" like heat stress or stress from over- or underwatering. My experience is the plants will heal in a matter of hours.

Going forward (thinking again about heavy buds at harvest time), you might consider spreading out a nylon bird netting over the tops of your plants to hold up the heavy buds and at the same time give you something to tie the colas down to, to keep your stealth cover. You could stretch the netting across the top of both plants at the level of the balcony railing and below the "snoopy neighbor line of sight".



26 C is wonderful cannabis weather, doesn't get much better. If you are concerned about the hot tiles, why not cover the tiles with something that keeps the tiles around and under your containers in the shade? Other pots, wood, boxes of some kind, even a chair or table, to keep the sun off the tiles and reflect the heat away.



Gorilla Glue Auto (who is the breeder of this seed? there are several versions of this) has ruderalis, indica and sativa genetics as far I can tell from seedfinder.eu. I guess there could also be phenotypes. Maybe your particular plant is more indica- or ruderalis-leaning than your friend's.

Or -- lol -- maybe the seller got the seeds mixed up AGAIN!

Why the late watering? Did they suffer from the heat again today, too dry?

Yes, this year's grow I believe the soil quality is a lot improved with additional amendments and amendment quantities, previous seasons I thought I was doing the right thing being very conservative. My 'bench mark' very first grow was fantastic, using bag soil which I never amended or fed. However, it wasn't until Summer when I germinated that plant so the plant thus never had a lot of time to grow and use up the soil nutes.

I have drilled many 2cm holes in the bottoms and sides of the current plants pots, they dry out quickly, and at this size, the plants if watered in the morning can show wilting by midday. If letting them wilt is good for the bud, then I gave them a severe wilting late December! Now, I just aim to keep them happy. The pots are so free draining there is no chance of them ever getting sodden with moisture, and at this size the plants have quite a thirst

It is very likely I will have to do something to support the colas when they get heavy. Especially now with the supercropped branches.

I am not concerned about the hot tiles, I just see them as part of the plant's environment. I always wondered whether the heat stress helped the first grow. Subsequent grows were started earlier and without amendments so that one grew a bit nutrient starved. I have never had a plant turn hermie so I feel the hot tile heat is not a negative but I am hoping it is a positive stress thing?!

My Gorilla Glue Auto is from 420. It is hard to know it's genetics, or indeed I feel any seller's genetics, it is so easy to give them 'good' name that doesn't reflect their actual genetics. I feel you can probably only go with experience. This is my first 420 plant, it is looking great so far.

Similarly with the Gorgonzola I grew last season, it was supposed to be more sativa, and it leaves looked to me more sativa (thin) but the White Widow also has very similar looking thin leaves which was supposed to be more Indica, yes maybe it is all down to the phenotype that the seed's genetics happen to express. So the Widow and the Widow/Gorgonzola cross both have very similar leaves. And yes I am hoping there will be a different quality to the 2 resulting harvests. The Gorilla Glue Auto has much wider and presumably Indica dominant leaves.

 

[Emeraldo]

...
I am not concerned about the hot tiles, I just see them as part of the plant's environment. ... I have never had a plant turn hermie so I feel the hot tile heat is not a negative but I am hoping it is a positive stress thing?!

Well, ye be warned... "supercropping" is "positive" stress, but I really can't think of any other kind of stress that you'd want. Hot tiles... yeow, hurts my feet just thinking about it.
But maybe your tiles are not as hot as mine. I did have a hermie, and I'm pretty sure it was the hot-hahaha-hot tiles!

 

[Stunger]

Well, ye was warned... "supercropping" is "positive" stress, but I really can't think of any other kind of stress that you'd want. Hot tiles... yeow, hurts my feet just thinking about it. But maybe your tiles are not as hot as mine.

Underneath the pots seem cool, the stone is very porous and not very heat conductive, not like some tile materials that can be absolutely scalding. I think in the past my growing results have been mostly down to poor soil, poor nutrition and poor pest management. I could be wrong but I haven't felt the heat has been an issue unless I let the soil dry out excessively for my 'aerated' pots.

Re Supercropping; Each time I walk over to observe and admire the plants, I find myself looking for which is the next branch I can supercrop. I wonder is it best to do this after the majority of stretching has been done (like now) or if it was done throughout the stretching whether that would have perhaps held the plant back a little, or whether that would have been fine too. If so, now I wonder if I should have kept the height lower and supercropped much earlier and more densely packed out the canopy. Having squeezed crushed and bent, I have no fear now!

 

[Emeraldo]

You can get into it, crushing their cellular material to make them stronger. Especially if it helps your stealth. But quadliners are really good at this, right? hehe

I think the timing of supercropping is up to you, to each his own. But it's usually during stretch that you can start. I think you will have to continually keep your eye on them to make sure they don't wave to the neighbor.

You might try LST'ng the longer branches to the exact direction you want. Supercropping is a form of LST, isn't it? Topping = high stress. Supercropping is maybe midland stress.

 

[GardeningGnome]

Lovely plants @Stunger ! Now you got my attention regarding Quadlining, they look fantastic!
The "supercropping" looks like you gave a good LTS. I have nimble fingers so the squishing of the stems almost always gives me a crunch. However, I think that could be because I'm used to indoor plants which might have a bit thicker stems.
If you need a solution for your hight problem, LTS will do the trick for you, even quite late in the life of the plant. Looks like you got busy with the 3-WWG!

so if the branch recovers from a 90 degree bend to, say, a 45 degree bend, then it would presumably be better to choose a new point to supercrop to get the end of growth lower again?

Yes, that is at least how I do it, find another place to bend just a bit more. I've also re-done the same bend, and after the third time or so, the "scar" becomes so hard that it is difficult to crush it again.


All the best! Will continue to follow.

 

[Emeraldo]

It is very likely I will have to do something to support the colas when they get heavy. Especially now with the supercropped branches.

In my semi-guerilla grow (balcony grow where I am absent much of the time), I set it up with a 4x6 foot horsefence screen over the plants. When they are tall enough, they pass through the fencing and get support from it. You can see this in my 2019 semi-guerilla sinsemilla grow if you scroll through. I was thinking that idea might help you with the stealth and supercropping. All you need is enough fencing to cover the two plants, and some way of holding it over them, maybe attaching it to the railing of the balcony.

 

[Stunger]

Caterpillar alert

A month or so ago I found a future flower head was sort of gummed up and stuck, which I unstuck and opened the leaf growth out and I wondered what had caused that. A few days ago I found a second such glued up flower head and as I unpeeled that, a little brown caterpillar came out which was duly squashed. Today while conducting a regular scheduled appreciation gaze for the harvest yet to come I spotted a light yellow looping caterpillar which was duly squashed too

I then gave the 3 plants a good spray of BT. This worked well last season when a caterpillar infestation occurred to my grow. Luckily it is only the start of flowering with no real bud development having happened yet, unlike last season when it occurred the buds were quite developed. Last season it was White butterflies, but today's looping one was different, as were the 'glue leaf' variety I saw twice. Anyway I will be monitoring for further incursions to my future harvest!

They have settled nicely after the recent round of emergency Supercropping to maintain a semblance of stealthiness to their hiding positions from the neighbors. But I am considering doing further Supercropping to perhaps reduce the canopy height a little bit further. Now in hindsight I feel I would have preferred to start Supercropping at about the half way point of the stretching. Nevermind, it is something to learn from

In my semi-guerilla grow (balcony grow where I am absent much of the time), I set it up with a 4x6 foot horsefence screen over the plants. When they are tall enough, they pass through the fencing and get support from it. You can see this in my 2019 semi-guerilla sinsemilla grow if you scroll through. I was thinking that idea might help you with the stealth and supercropping. All you need is enough fencing to cover the two plants, and some way of holding it over them, maybe attaching it to the railing of the balcony.

Yes I noticed from your journal how you did that. I will most likely have to rig some support assistance for when the bud development occurs, especially with the greater angles that the Supercropped branches now lean on.

The girls this afternoon

Front: 2-WW Back:3-WWG

• Stunger
• Feb 1, 2020

From L to R: 2-WW & 3-WWG

• Stunger
• Feb 1, 2020

1-GGa day 31 from sprouting

• Stunger
• Feb 1, 2020

 

[DonkeyDick]

Oh you have a nice view from on your balcony!
The canopies on those girls are so thick!
Nice work on the supercropping. You’re going to have a super crop!