My First Plant - Cookie Killer (Auto)

[Terrapin Station]

Well hell . . . In the last 24 hours I have watched my plant lose it's dark green color and it's shiny leaves. This morning I opened the door and almost all the leaves look diseased now.

I reread the comments about this and it has been suggested that this is a P & K deficiency. As well it has been suggested that this is too much P & K .

My plant is full of flowers but I'm feeling like it's not going to make it to harvest.

The experienced and successful growers here are focused on P &K. I would like more input please. I feel like I'm just watching her die rapidly in the last 24 hours.

@Bill284
@Azimuth
@con
@ThirdUncle
@Keffka

 

[Azimuth]

That looks like very early calcium deficiency to me. Are you giving cal/mag?

 

[Terrapin Station]

That looks like very early calcium deficiency to me. Are you giving cal/mag?

No I have not given cal/mag and after checking my soil mix and nutrients that I use I can see this plant has had zero access to either calcium or magnesium since it germinated.

Do you think she is a gonner, or is there anything I can do now?

 

[Keffka]

First, take a breath. It’s your first plant and an auto, and you made it to flower. That’s commendable on its own. Once a plant settles into flower it will begin taking leaves, unless you are pumping godly amounts of nutrients into it. This is okay. I prefer my plants to lose almost all their leaves before harvest, look at this one

That’s gonna be one powerful plant.

Second.. CalMag is your friend until you can build a soil with enough calcium in it. If you’re organic minded grab bush doctor CalMag, if you’re synthetic minded Advanced nutrients or calimagic both are good products.

Third.. At this point I would feed full strength and try to introduce a CalMag supplement with the next full strength feeding. Your plant is obviously running away, and at this point you can’t do much beyond slowing it down, so it won’t really hurt you to try full strength. The worst thing that can happen now is it won’t have any effect. If you’re locked out, you’re not gonna be able to overcome that in time, that auto is on its own schedule

That’s my opinion from my perspective. My advice is to take everyone’s opinion and look at your situation and go with your gut. Maybe that requires listening to half of what I say and half of what @Trump or @Azimuth says. Just remember, don’t follow advice blindly. Think about it and whether it makes sense for your grow

 

[Terrapin Station]

First, take a breath. It’s your first plant and an auto, and you made it to flower. That’s commendable on its own. Once a plant settles into flower it will begin taking leaves, unless you are pumping godly amounts of nutrients into it. This is okay. I prefer my plants to lose almost all their leaves before harvest, look at this one

That’s gonna be one powerful plant.

Second.. CalMag is your friend until you can build a soil with enough calcium in it. If you’re organic minded grab bush doctor CalMag, if you’re synthetic minded Advanced nutrients or calimagic both are good products.

Third.. At this point I would feed full strength and try to introduce a CalMag supplement with the next full strength feeding. Your plant is obviously running away, and at this point you can’t do much beyond slowing it down, so it won’t really hurt you to try full strength. The worst thing that can happen now is it won’t have any effect. If you’re locked out, you’re not gonna be able to overcome that in time, that auto is on its own schedule

That’s my opinion from my perspective. My advice is to take everyone’s opinion and look at your situation and go with your gut. Maybe that requires listening to half of what I say and half of what @Trump or @Azimuth says. Just remember, don’t follow advice blindly. Think about it and whether it makes sense for your grow

What you have just shared is so wild and jarred my memory on what has to be a big "piece" of the puzzle. Your photo reminded me of the catalog picture when I ordered seeds.

I wondered why it was in the pot with no leaves. This could be the nature of the plant!/? (see below)

I just ordered the bush doctor overnight I'll use is and a full strength feeding next, this sounds right.

You caused me to realize I have been looking at growing weed in a compartmentalized way, or looking at individual pieces of the entire puzzle as opposed to the big picture.

You were also correct to say take a breath, I have been freaking out since I saw significant further decline when I woke up.

Now genetics and the nature of the plant could be a huge factor. Actually, the worse the leaves look the better the flowers look. The flowers are progressing to the same degree as the leaves are regressing. The flowers seem like they are taking off quickly.

 

[Keffka]

What you have just shared is so wild and jarred my memory on what has to be a big "piece" of the puzzle. Your photo reminded me of the catalog picture when I ordered seeds.

I wondered why it was in the pot with no leaves. This could be the nature of the plant!/?

I just ordered the bush doctor overnight I'll use is and a full strength feeding next, this sounds right.

You caused me to realize I have been looking at growing weed in a compartmentalized way, or looking at individual pieces of the entire puzzle as opposed to the big picture.

You were also correct to say take a breath, I have been freaking out since I saw significant further decline when I woke up.

Now genetics and the nature of the plant could be a huge factor. Actually, the worse the leaves look the better the flowers look. The flowers are progress to the same degree as the leaves are regressing. The flowers seem like they are taking off quickly.

Yep you can see right at the bottom of that picture there’s dead vegetation on the top of the soil.

Typically you want the leaves to last until stretch has finished at least, preferably a little longer, but once the buds start really building you can expect a shift. This is also why I don’t normally bother with a heavy defoliation. She’s gonna take those leaves eventually unless you have an extremely powerful medium, or are feeding above the directed strength. So the more leaves she has left to take from, the better in my mind at least lol. That’s why I prune for air flow only.

Also, yes, growing requires a Birds Eye view. You want to look at the entire process and plant, not just the day to day or branch to branch changes. Try to think of where and how cannabis grows naturally, this will help guide a lot of your choices. Growing cannabis is all about preparation and proactiveness. The more you can do to prep before the plant grows the better. If you’re forced to react you’re already at a deficit. A plant only shows deficiencies or issues once it has become a full blown problem. By the time you see the signs manifest, the problem has already been exacerbating inside and you’re now reacting and playing catch up.

Preparation also removes a lot of the tail chasing you’re experiencing now. It’s hard to determine what the most effective route is because it could be anything. It could be the container, it could be the miracle gro, it could be a lockout, etc. so you’re stuck in a crappy situation with no clear way out.

Like I said before though, you’re already ahead of your experience level. Peruse the forums and you’ll see some horrific looking plants from people who’ve been growing for a while. You’ll see tons of dead journals where growers killed a plant before it even left seedling phase. You seem pretty intelligent and open to criticism and change which are traits that will serve you incredibly well in growing.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

this plant has had zero access to either calcium or magnesium since it germinated.

It's been able to get those from the soil so far, or it wouldn't have made it. Magnesium is essential for photosynthesis, and you would have seen a calcium deficiency much earlier if there hadn't been some there.
I've been trying to find a guaranteed analysis of that Morbloom stuff, but I haven't been able to find one online. There should be one on the bottle though. Could you post a pic?

 

[Terrapin Station]

It's been able to get those from the soil so far, or it wouldn't have made it. Magnesium is essential for photosynthesis, and you would have seen a calcium deficiency much earlier if there hadn't been some there.
I've been trying to find a guaranteed analysis of that Morbloom stuff, but I haven't been able to find one online. There should be one on the bottle though. Could you post a pic?

Here's everything on the bottle:

 

[Terrapin Station]

Yep you can see right at the bottom of that picture there’s dead vegetation on the top of the soil.

Typically you want the leaves to last until stretch has finished at least, preferably a little longer, but once the buds start really building you can expect a shift. This is also why I don’t normally bother with a heavy defoliation. She’s gonna take those leaves eventually unless you have an extremely powerful medium, or are feeding above the directed strength. So the more leaves she has left to take from, the better in my mind at least lol. That’s why I prune for air flow only.

Also, yes, growing requires a Birds Eye view. You want to look at the entire process and plant, not just the day to day or branch to branch changes. Try to think of where and how cannabis grows naturally, this will help guide a lot of your choices. Growing cannabis is all about preparation and proactiveness. The more you can do to prep before the plant grows the better. If you’re forced to react you’re already at a deficit. A plant only shows deficiencies or issues once it has become a full blown problem. By the time you see the signs manifest, the problem has already been exacerbating inside and you’re now reacting and playing catch up.

Preparation also removes a lot of the tail chasing you’re experiencing now. It’s hard to determine what the most effective route is because it could be anything. It could be the container, it could be the miracle gro, it could be a lockout, etc. so you’re stuck in a crappy situation with no clear way out.

Like I said before though, you’re already ahead of your experience level. Peruse the forums and you’ll see some horrific looking plants from people who’ve been growing for a while. You’ll see tons of dead journals where growers killed a plant before it even left seedling phase. You seem pretty intelligent and open to criticism and change which are traits that will serve you incredibly well in growing.

The stretch is about over now. From my more informed point of view now with this particular plant, it does look like a plant that is shutting down in preparation for death just like other plants in the fall do before they go dormant or die. It's also interesting to me that the next 4 leaves she is taking are all large fan leaves that will cause more light to shine on the buds below them as the die off.

I hear what you are saying about preparation. I will be smarter and more prepared next time.

Thanks so very much Man!

 

[Melville Hobbes]

So just P and K. Hmm.
High levels of potassium can interfere with calcium uptake.

 

[Azimuth]

No I have not given cal/mag and after checking my soil mix and nutrients that I use I can see this plant has had zero access to either calcium or magnesium since it germinated.

Do you think she is a gonner, or is there anything I can do now?

As @Keffka said, you'll get her to the finish line. Keep in mind that those leaves won't magically return to looking like new. They're damaged forever so what you want to look for after you add you new input is to not see the problem spreading to other leaves that were previously unaffected. But you're pretty late in the grow so issues that show up now really only affect the quantity and quality of the harvest, not whether or not you get one.

It looks like it will be decent as well. Way better than my first many attempts before I found this place.

 

[Terrapin Station]

As @Keffka said, you'll get her to the finish line. Keep in mind that those leaves won't magically return to looking like new. They're damaged forever so what you want to look for after you add you new input is to not see the problem spreading to other leaves that were previously unaffected. But you're pretty late in the grow so issues that show up now really only affect the quantity and quality of the harvest, not whether or not you get one.

It looks like it will be decent as well. Way better than my first many attempts before I found this place.

This is very encouraging! Thanks again!

 

[Terrapin Station]

So just P and K. Hmm.
High levels of potassium can interfere with calcium uptake.

Here's another one I have on hand. It's interesting to see what it is a rich supply of:

 

[Trump]

WHOA! What happened?

What looked like a tox is going deficient? @Keffka and @Azimuth brought up good points. It could be leaf senescence but I'm still looking at the MG soil and the unknowns.

My diagnosis came through the timing of the 0-10-10. Your plant was doing fine up until you started feeding it 0-10-10. With the uncertainty of the MG soil, making additions and then having issues tends to lean towards some sort of overabundance of what you added into the soil. That overabundance could be either locking something else out or it could have just raised what you put in the soil to tox levels. In this case, P and K.

@Keffka - Man, I don't know....adding more stuff after he's been adding stuff doesn't sound like a good idea. Cal/Mag yes. Maybe best to add only cal/mag for now and see what happens in the next 72 hours. If it is a cal or mag issue maybe a foliar spray would be faster in regards to seeing plant reaction and drilling down on the issue?

 

[Azimuth]

WHOA! What happened?

What looked like a tox is going deficient? @Keffka and @Azimuth brought up good points. It could be leaf senescence but I'm still looking at the MG soil and the unknowns.

My diagnosis came through the timing of the 0-10-10. Your plant was doing fine up until you started feeding it 0-10-10. With the uncertainty of the MG soil, making additions and then having issues tends to lean towards some sort of overabundance of what you added into the soil. That overabundance could be either locking something else out or it could have just raised what you put in the soil to tox levels. In this case, P and K.

@Keffka - Man, I don't know....adding more stuff after he's been adding stuff doesn't sound like a good idea. Cal/Mag yes. Maybe best to add only cal/mag for now and see what happens in the next 72 hours. If it is a cal or mag issue maybe a foliar spray would be faster in regards to seeing plant reaction and drilling down on the issue?

Good points @Trump . I lost the MG soil part. See that so rarely that I forget to add that to the equation.

My thoughts were based around what looked like early calcium spots, so cal/Mag is an easy suggestion there.

Maybe a better suggestion is a different, and canna friendly, soil mix for next round. Doesn't help him this round, but, yeah. Good catch by you.

 

[Keffka]

WHOA! What happened?

What looked like a tox is going deficient? @Keffka and @Azimuth brought up good points. It could be leaf senescence but I'm still looking at the MG soil and the unknowns.

My diagnosis came through the timing of the 0-10-10. Your plant was doing fine up until you started feeding it 0-10-10. With the uncertainty of the MG soil, making additions and then having issues tends to lean towards some sort of overabundance of what you added into the soil. That overabundance could be either locking something else out or it could have just raised what you put in the soil to tox levels. In this case, P and K.

@Keffka - Man, I don't know....adding more stuff after he's been adding stuff doesn't sound like a good idea. Cal/Mag yes. Maybe best to add only cal/mag for now and see what happens in the next 72 hours. If it is a cal or mag issue maybe a foliar spray would be faster in regards to seeing plant reaction and drilling down on the issue?

So to me, that MG is already done. He’s in a 3 gallon container filled with 70/30 mg and coco. Most soils, at 3 gallons, by this point, have already burnt off most of what they’ve got. The NPK numbers on the bag were also relatively low. No whole numbers, just percentages of one.

He doesn’t have myco and is attempting organic, so he’s already going to have to provide more to the plant than in an average organic grow. The issues he has popping up happened as his plant really began flowering and he’s feeding at half strength. So between a lack of myco, and a flowering plant in a 3 gallon container being fed half strength my thought is that plant doesn’t have what it needs.

Foliar spray with calmag is a good idea. I don’t foliar so I didn’t even think of it.

 

[Keffka]

It could be leaf senescence but I'm still looking at the MG soil and the unknowns.

I wanna address this real quick. While senescence is a thing that happens, that’s not what I was referring to. That was my fault for not being more explicit. You know what I’m getting ready to say but this is for OPs benefit,

Senescence is what happens to most plants at the end of the season. It’s when the leaves begin shifting to their fall colors before winter.

What Im referring to is cannabis’ cannibalizing of her leaves. Each leaf contains the nutrients cannabis uses. When she needs more than she has available she’ll take it from her leaves, starting with the least efficient or damaged leaf. She’ll pull everything she can from the leaf then it will fall off. So losing leaves isn’t the end of the world. If you still have leaves when buds are building then you’ll make it to harvest. It may not be the most quality or quantity you can get but you will still get a harvest.

 

[Terrapin Station]

So to me, that MG is already done.

I'm staying on the sidelines as a spectator so I don't interrupt this excellent flow that has developed here towards a possible conscenses.

But, I just want to mention this slow release fertilizer in the MG is supposed to be released over a 6 month period each time it's watered. In my mind it's not done but each time I water it is released into the soil and is available.

 

[Keffka]

I'm staying on the sidelines as a spectator so I don't interrupt this excellent flow that has developed here towards a possible conscenses.

But, I just want to mention this slow release fertilizer in the MG is supposed to be released over a 6 month period each time it's watered. In my mind it's not done but each time I water it is released into the soil and is available.

Did it say what size container? Most commercial soils that claim a specific amount of time are referring to something in the area of 1.5 cu ft (or it’s given bag size) of it will last that time frame. For instance, coast of Maine Stonington blend claims it has 120 days worth of nutrients but that’s only if you put the entire 1.5 cu ft bag into a larger container (around 15 gallons for one plant). Otherwise, 5 gallons gets you on average 30 days. So 3 is even less. I imagine it’s not much different with the miracle gro.

 

[Keffka]

I also can’t remember who, but I’ve come across growers that have grown in miracle gro with little problem. Definitely older members. Maybe @Roy Growin ?