Making Your Own Nutrient Concentrates

Made it to the end... this is quite a book you are publishing :) Very insightful and interesting discussion going on here. Thanks to all
 
sid said:
Hey Sky!
A little advise here. I know you would recommend me to mix separate. But still :)
Thank you so much for keeping an eye out on my grow thread.

Today I noticed my A concentrate, comprising of
1. Calcium Nitrate
2. FeDTPA
3. Magnesium EDTA
4. Potassium Nitrate

Has crystals forming. I ask for your guidance please.

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My concern being if it could possibly be the potassium nitrate, not that I know any better, but it may explain the droopiness in the plants now that they have started to flower. Please read my post in the grow thread Sky, thanks a ton!

Just to note, I have a CalMag concentrate, which is still fully dissolved, comprising of :

Calcium Nitrate
Iron DTPA
Magnesium EDTA
Magnesium Nitrate
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Some sweet looking rock candy there ;) I only use sulfates for micros so I feel your pain. Limited solubility for creating concentrates.
 
I learned the lesson about metallic sulfates in a concentrated solution. The iron sulfate, which is the most concentrated micro element, turned into rust water in a little longer than a day and the contents became unusable. When making concentrated micro mixes, gotta use chelated micros with a food preservative to prevent bacteria from forming and consuming the organic acids (the chelators). My mixes last months.
 
I have found that the rust is already a part of the FeSO4 solids... my iron concentrate always looks like rust (zinc too) but a good shake to mix things up before creating my mix seems to be enough to solve any problems. Once completely diluted in my final solution the iron and zinc stay dissolved... they just won't stay dissolved in a concentrate. I use micros like you use macros... keeping each one in a separate concentrate prior to my final mix. That allows me to play with micros just as you would with macros.
 
I find little bits of rust mixed into the FeSO4 all the time... after several hours the rust will begin to dissolve which is what I think you experienced with your mix.
 
Diatomacious said:
My reasoning is that sulfur is a plant essential nutrient (required for growth) EDTA, DTPA are not.
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EDTA and DTPA are both toxic to plants at higher concentrations, but when paired with metalics below 5ppm, there's no concern. IDK what concentration you mix to, but I mix to 1000:1, and there was a lot of iron sulfate mixed in. When it turned to rust, I just threw it out assuming the Fe precipitated out.
 
Easy mistake... I still think it was rust already in the FeSO4 from my experience but at 1000:1 you will definitely have to go chelates.

I'm probably just overconcerned about chemical nutrients as I'm on an almost strict diet of organically grown meat and produce (local farms not the grocery store fake organic stuff). I had to quit eating chemically grown produce as it was causing me digestive issues, back trouble (bad back), skin rashes, light bladder leakage, general feeling of spaciness (sitting and staring at one thing for an extended period of time) which seemed to come from a general feeling of fatigue due to eating chemically grown food (water soluble nutrients) just to name a few symptoms. Not trying to scare you off just sharing my experiences.

I started growing chemically so I could determine which nutrient targets plants respond to best... once I figure that out I will switch back to growing organically (much better for the human body). It's easy to mix water and add it to the pot, you can even change your nutrient during the grow... with organic you add the nutrient to the soil (bone, blood), not easy to change during the grow. Growing organically is the same as growing chemically the nutrient is just not water soluble.
 
Diatomacious said:
Easy mistake... I still think it was rust already in the FeSO4 from my experience but at 1000:1 you will definitely have to go chelates.

I'm probably just overconcerned about chemical nutrients as I'm on an almost strict diet of organically grown meat and produce (local farms not the grocery store fake organic stuff). I had to quit eating chemically grown produce as it was causing me digestive issues, back trouble (bad back), skin rashes, light bladder leakage, general feeling of spaciness (sitting and staring at one thing for an extended period of time) which seemed to come from a general feeling of fatigue due to eating chemically grown food (water soluble nutrients) just to name a few symptoms. Not trying to scare you off just sharing my experiences.

I started growing chemically so I could determine which nutrient targets plants respond to best... once I figure that out I will switch back to growing organically (much better for the human body). It's easy to mix water and add it to the pot, you can even change your nutrient during the grow... with organic you add the nutrient to the soil (bone, blood), not easy to change during the grow. Growing organically is the same as growing chemically the nutrient is just not water soluble.
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You and I think a lot alike. I became a vegetarian about 4 months ago because I noticed my body dying from the inside out and it just felt very debilitating, so I watched The Game Changer on youtube and made thew switch. I now feel 1000 times better just eating oats, rice, shit ton of beans, fruit smoothies and some side veggies here and there. I'm not full on vegan, I just try my best to steer clear of animal products within reason.

As far as chemical ferts and organics, I too had the same misconception until I reverse engineered Dog Bud's Brix soil kit and found he used the same shit I use to make my nutes. Some further digging and PMing with Doc, I learned many of the salts we use are naturally produced, it's only shit like triple phosphate or other such exotic products that are chemically produced or is a byproduct of another manufactured product and must be chemically cleaned. Do some snooping on this and you'll see what I mean.
 
We learn from our mistakes lol.

I'm not sure exactly what fertilizer is causing me these problems... I just know when I stopped eating them and found a farmer who actually tries to grow organically they went away. Whether or not it's caused by contaminants from the manufacturing process or the chemicals themselves still eludes me.

One interesting thing I did learn is that smoking plants grown with chemical nutrients is nowhere near as hard on the body as eating plants grown with chemical nutrients so GOOD news I suppose lol. I was buying from a farmer who said he grew organically, had USDA certification but his produce still caused me problems like it was grown with chemical nutrients. There is literally no way to tell the difference between chemical and organic produce without eating it in my knowledge. Vegan alone would not be good enough for me I'm afraid, it would have to be authentic organic vegan lol.
 
Diatomacious said:
We learn from our mistakes lol.

I'm not sure exactly what fertilizer is causing me these problems... I just know when I stopped eating them and found a farmer who actually tries to grow organically they went away. Whether or not it's caused by contaminants from the manufacturing process or the chemicals themselves still eludes me.

One interesting thing I did learn is that smoking plants grown with chemical nutrients is nowhere near as hard on the body as eating plants grown with chemical nutrients so GOOD news I suppose lol. I was buying from a farmer who said he grew organically, had USDA certification but his produce still caused me problems like it was grown with chemical nutrients. There is literally no way to tell the difference between chemical and organic produce without eating it in my knowledge. Vegan alone would not be good enough for me I'm afraid, it would have to be authentic organic vegan lol.
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High Brix soil proudly produces high brix pot which I'm lead to believe tastes so damn good to smoke. And I have absolutely no reason to doubt that claim, I was just unsuccessful in reproducing the result, but MANY others swear by it. I'm just a cheap skate and couldn't justify the expense. My studies about high brix leads me to believe that nutrient dense foods are better to consume and last a lot longer on the shelf or in storage than regularly grown organic foods. I just started outdoor gardening last year, but coming years I plan to try to work all that knowledge into soil building, but the long and short of it is the soil microbes. They eat the sugars that the roots exude and give back specific concentrations of elemental ions making the plants and the microbes beneficiaries in common as they feed each other what each needs to thrive. So just as long as the soil has the native materials and the microbes get a head start to break all that shit down, the plants can chemically communicate with the microbes and tell them which elements is desired for the next exchange and the microbes serves that shit right up for that sweet root exudates.
 
I'll have to check that out when I get some time... took me near all day just to read through this post lol. All I know is you grow organic just like you grow chemical. Monopotassium Phosphate fertilizer contains 52% Phosphorous and 34% Potassium and is water soluble. (cut and paste lol) whereas As a fertilizer, the N-P-K (Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium) ratio of bone meal can vary greatly, depending on the source, from as low as 3-15-0 to as high as 2-22-0,, although some steamed bone meals have N-P-Ks of 1-13-0. So it's always best to have a waste analysis done by your local agricultural department before using an organic nute on your soil (waste analysis will tell you all elements in an organic nutrient which you can then plug into your fertilizer calculations). With soil though, you have to get the soil tested at least once a year as some P and K will remain from previous years fertilizer application (soil test at Ag dept). Once you know what's in the soil you can calculate how much more of each element to add and from that how much blood, bone or whatever you are using to feed the soil with from percent composition (depending on whether you need phosphorous, potassium or whatever). Most soils have all the trace elements already there as soil is just crushed rock and rock is full of minerals... just the N, P and K wash out (depths beyond small plants reach), trees usually bring these back up and deposit them on the surface as leaves and twigs in a forest situation (that's why forest top soil is so rich) but without trees you could always use yard waste on a organic garden (as long as you don't use chemical nutes on the lawn).

Anyway what I'm trying to say is MKP is 0-52-34 whereas bone is say 3-15-0 but for agricultural you use the same equations for both to arrive at your elemental targets. You would of course need more than just those two for a complete elemental analysis.
 
ppm is actually mg/kg (ie dirt farming) it's just that for hydro and because 1 liter of water weighs 1 kg you can say ppm is mg/liter... same equations though.
 
Just don't grow organic inside your home (in which you or someone else lives)... the smell can be somewhat overwhelming from the decay of dead animal or even plant tissue... I guess it's actually the microbial life you smell but it's still pretty nasty to breath all the time.
 
Soluble salts are ionic and available to roots immediately. Soil amendments are not ionic and require soil microbes to liberate the ions.
 
Skybound said:
You and I think a lot alike. I became a vegetarian about 4 months ago because I noticed my body dying from the inside out and it just felt very debilitating, so I watched The Game Changer on youtube and made thew switch. I now feel 1000 times better just eating oats, rice, shit ton of beans, fruit smoothies and some side veggies here and there. I'm not full on vegan, I just try my best to steer clear of animal products within reason.
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I forgot to mention that most animal products grown in todays market contain lots of antibiotics, keeps the animals from getting sick, and growth producing hormones to make them fatten up on chemically grown feed. What farmers don't realize or are not taught is that the animals are sick and won't beef up because of the chemically grown feed. Those same soil microbes that you hear so much about in organic growing are still in the veggies when you eat them and they fight off illnesses when taken on a regular basis. Chemicals don't seem to have the nutrition the body needs in them either which is why the cattle won't grow and growth must be chemically induced. The meat you were eating before becoming vegan was probably laced with antiobiotics and hormones which is why you feel so much better. True organic meat has none of these side effects.
Skybound said:
Soluble salts are ionic and available to roots immediately. Soil amendments are not ionic and require soil microbes to liberate the ions.
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From my experience most organic ammendments are available almost immediately, at least enough for plant growth. Simply broadcast spreading them on the lawn has taught me a lot. The longer you give them the more available they become so there is some truth to what you are saying, nitrogen, however, is supposed to turn back into gas over time so is lost due to microbial activity. I usually just mix the soil and organic ammendments in a small cement mixer until well homogenized and plant right in that. The plant will grow as the organics break down. It's hitting your elemental targets with organic matter that can be troublesome, too much and you will never get it back out, too little and you will have to topdress with additional nutrient which will take time to work down through the soil and to break down due to drying on the soil surface.
 
I think chemical nutrients kill off most of the beneficial microbes that would normally be breaking down the organic matter leaving you with a dead soil full of nothing but chemical salts... unhealthy for you unhealthy for the environment.

I'll stop now I hope.
 
Diatomacious said:
I think chemical nutrients kill off most of the beneficial microbes that would normally be breaking down the organic matter leaving you with a dead soil full of nothing but chemical salts... unhealthy for you unhealthy for the environment.

I'll stop now I hope.
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microbes do just fine in salty environments, just as long as there's food to eat and media to colonize, they'll do fine. If we had more laxed site rules for oof board links, I'd go find a couple to support my claim.
 
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