Making Your Own Nutrient Concentrates

[Skybound]

.............Veg.................Bloom
NO3....152...............same
NH4......6.6...............same
P.............60...............50
K...........215...............230
Ca.........140...............same
Mg...........60...............same
Si.............20................40

For micros, my next blend will be as follows. I can't remember how much different my current mix is as I made it months ago and lost my saved settings, but this time I'm upping the Fe a bit to compete with the 3.x that's in MC with CM.

Fe........2.5
Mn......1.2
B..........1
Zn.........1.2
Cu.........0.5
Mo........0.1

I also might re-embrace using 65ppm of P, I remember that being a great target for P, but I've since been investigating the low P theories and though I don't see it as bad, conversely I remember seeing elevated performance with the raised P. My only concern is what affect will upping the P throughout to 65 have on Ca uptake.

I'm also chasing out a wicked Mg deficiency I caught from reusing the fuck out of my faux mix. I blame that on the Rona screwing up availability to pete and perlite, but once I get all of my soil rotated out, I will resume screwing with my ferts again. I find the Faux Mix can be reused upwards of 5 times before the chemistry is too screwed up to reuse again, but since it's only about $30 to make when Home Depot's supply chains aint disrupted, it's not a bad setup at all. Buy nutes once a year, buy soil twice a year, I got my overhead waaaaaaaay down and production waaaaay up.

Edit, might as well add my cloning juice recipe too. Just a quart of RO, 1ml (or more) Clonex, 0.7 grams MKP, moderate dose of Humic&fulvic and PH to 5.5. Soak the RW cubes in it, soak the cuttings in it before putting them into the cubes, then after about 7 or 8 days, or just when the cube is between damp and dry, add just 5ml of the juice to the center of the cube and usually by the next day, there's roots. Constant 85º from underneath will ensure the success and rapid rooting, but I'm 100% success in mostly under 10 days with the occasional 11 dayer.

 

[Diatomacious]

Looking pretty close to what I'm seeing on the numbers. I've just started toying with 350 ppm K2O (about 290 elemental) as per Howard Resch's book on hydroponics. Still not sure if he means oxide or elemental as he does not specify so I went with oxide numbers. Seems to be looking better to me. Your a little rich on nitrogen from my experience, especially for bloom, so watch for burnsign. Anywho just a heads up.

 

[Skybound]

Looking pretty close to what I'm seeing on the numbers. I've just started toying with 350 ppm K2O (about 290 elemental) as per Howard Resch's book on hydroponics. Still not sure if he means oxide or elemental as he does not specify so I went with oxide numbers. Seems to be looking better to me. Your a little rich on nitrogen from my experience, especially for bloom, so watch for burnsign. Anywho just a heads up.

I've been using this recipe for months and months, maybe more than a year. I stole these targets from Megacrop with Calmag @ 5 grams each. I too thought the elevated N would give me grief, but it didn't. I've even been contemplating nudging up the NH4 in veg, just to load in a bit more N going into bloom. I also read that NH4 in bloom can stimulate resin production and flower site production, so of course my crash test dummy ass wants to flesh that out.

 

[Diatomacious]

He does seem a little off on his trace elements... so hard to tell when moving at the speed of a plant.

I've been using this recipe for months and months, maybe more than a year. I stole these targets from Megacrop with Calmag @ 5 grams each. I too thought the elevated N would give me grief, but it didn't. I've even been contemplating nudging up the NH4 in veg, just to load in a bit more N going into bloom. I also read that NH4 in bloom can stimulate resin production and flower site production, so of course my crash test dummy ass wants to flesh that out.

I hear ya.. it is looking a little hot here so nevermind me lol. You got any pics online (journal or something) I could check out?

 

[Skybound]

He does seem a little off on his trace elements... so hard to tell when moving at the speed of a plant.

I hear ya.. it is looking a little hot here so nevermind me lol. You got any pics online (journal or something) I could check out?

I just closed my journal a few days ago for lack of updating, but HERE it is. Who is "he" that seems off on his trace elements and what are you comparing to?

 

[Diatomacious]

I just closed my journal a few days ago for lack of updating, but HERE it is. Who is "he" that seems off on his trace elements and what are you comparing to?

Hell yea... those some nice looking buds in there. Nevermind about the "he"... just a book on hydroponics I was reading... didn't pan out though.

 

[Diatomacious]

Here's another good book

Hydroponics - A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower
by J. Benton Jones Jr.

lot's of different nutrient formulations in there.

 

[Skybound]

Here's another good book

Hydroponics - A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower
by J. Benton Jones Jr.

lot's of different nutrient formulations in there.

I have that one, I only ever looked in Chapter 5, lol.

About toxic N, week 9 in the middle is fading nicely. Still a lot of Mg def in the back row with 3 or 4 stunted plants, but the front row lets me know changing out the soil did the trick.

 

[Diatomacious]

I have that one, I only ever looked in Chapter 5, lol.

About toxic N, week 9 in the middle is fading nicely. Still a lot of Mg def in the back row with 3 or 4 stunted plants, but the front row lets me know changing out the soil did the trick.

They look nice and green in the front... nice looking nugs on the older ones.

 

[Skybound]

Though the previous feed targets produced very good and stable results, I felt the higher P regimens I ran years back had a more aggressive result in bud fattening, so I'm revisiting that idea with the following targets. I plan to stay with this regimen for roughly 3 months to observe any improvements.

------------Veg-------------Bloom
NO3----165.5--------------152
NH4--------8.5---------------6.6
P--------------65---------------60
K------------215--------------240
Ca----------140--------------140
Mg-----------60----------------60
S------------(62)---------------(74)
Si-------------20----------------40

I just noticed my N for bloom isn't expressed correctly according to the NO3/NH4 scheme Megacrop uses, where NH4 accounts for 5% of total N as is the case with N for veg. I don't have OCD enough to correct it and believe the difference to be very negligible. HydroBuddy doesn't permit the targeting of Sulfur (which I dislike), so the numbers in the parentheses are just the result of the targets and the salts that I use. FWIW, the more sulfur, the sweeter the smoke.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I’ve been wondering about trying higher P as well- especially in later flowering.

I might bite the bullet and try some side-by-side experiments this winter,. Different levels of P and whatnot. It’s really the only way I’m going to have a chance of figuring out issues.
Since I switched to the mega crop I have not yet harvested a plant that really stood out and impressed me with its stickiness- whereas I used to get them often enough before.

I’ve also had a fair amount of what looks like calcium deficiency, but am never really sure wtf to think of these deficiencies as I don’t have the time or interest to focus very anal retentively on the details. It’s difficult to spot differences when all your changes are linear over time, with a hundred other variables in the mix. A side by side may tell the story.

I’d sure love to find a way to straighten my P Chunk out. I’m pretty sure it just has special needs because it always goes weird In late flowering. I figure if it can make it to mid flower looking healthy, then there should be no good teason it can’t go the rest of the way.

 

[Skybound]

I’ve been wondering about trying higher P as well- especially in later flowering.

I might bite the bullet and try some side-by-side experiments this winter,. Different levels of P and whatnot. It’s really the only way I’m going to have a chance of figuring out issues.
Since I switched to the mega crop I have not yet harvested a plant that really stood out and impressed me with its stickiness- whereas I used to get them often enough before.

I’ve also had a fair amount of what looks like calcium deficiency, but am never really sure wtf to think of these deficiencies as I don’t have the time or interest to focus very anal retentively on the details. It’s difficult to spot differences when all your changes are linear over time, with a hundred other variables in the mix. A side by side may tell the story.

I’d sure love to find a way to straighten my P Chunk out. I’m pretty sure it just has special needs because it always goes weird In late flowering. I figure if it can make it to mid flower looking healthy, then there should be no good teason it can’t go the rest of the way.

The thing that's really bad about Megacrop is that everything is in one bag and even though chelated with amino acid, the addition of moisture will make everything react and relentlessly try to break free from the chelate to pair with a favorite opposite. That is why I keep everything (except trace elements) separate until use, to prevent that in the slightest. Now I'm not saying that all of the contents in the bag are doing that, but I suspect that enough of it is bonding and becoming a colloid and no longer soluble (ionic). I wish it was practical to also keep the micros separate, but the fact that they're called "trace elements" would mean that a reasonably accurate dose would still be much smaller than I could draw into a syringe, so I just mix up my own Micro blend, and it remains dissolved, also because I add a drop of polysorbate, it keeps the water really wet. IMO, you should consider getting individual salts and make your own everything, use it, watch what it does and make adjustments as your wisdom and our help guides you.

Another big factor I found is that PH of the medium is highly important. I make my own remix of Farside's Faux Mix. Because I'm too lazy to portion it out, I just mix a 2 gallon bag of perlite (drainage assistance) to a 3cubic foot bag of peat moss. I think Farside mixes in (5 cups?) of dolomite lime (garden lime) to that, but when doing brix research last year, I learned to use calcium carbonate as well as dolomite as the dolomite has maybe too much mag in it, so I go with 3 cups of each, wet up the peat, add the buffer, mix it thoroughly and use it 3 days later. This generic soil mixture has roughly a 4:1 Ca:Mg ratio and if beneficial bacteria is introduced, the colonies can liberate all that good calcium for your girls. If getting perlite is an issue, I would use tiny rocks found in the driveway or wherever, just classify with like a 1/4" screen or smaller.

My P Chunk was having difficulty with the vastly overused soil I have/had them in, but the newer generation in veg seems to be coming through that with the new Faux Faux Mix and are even beginning to show shiny leaves again which I haven't seen in my grow in over a year. I gave the low P argument a fair shake, and now I'm reverting to mid P for a reason. I would really consider high P to be around 90, but that's just a guestimate.

Calcium is the trickiest element to work up through the plant with many reasons that can inhibit it and it seems like Megacrop is rolling the dice on that one. That's why I gave up hope on brands. You can scale your way into buying salts, just get what ya need to fix your Megacrop, then next time get a couple of the others. It's all on the top of page 3 and totals roughly $200 USD I think, maybe $300, but still a fantastic deal considering what's possible with it all.

 

[Diatomacious]

Since I switched to the mega crop I have not yet harvested a plant that really stood out and impressed me with its stickiness- whereas I used to get them often enough before.

What were you using before (that gave such nice results)... I would love to analyze both formulas for differences.

I’d sure love to find a way to straighten my P Chunk out. I’m pretty sure it just has special needs because it always goes weird In late flowering. I figure if it can make it to mid flower looking healthy, then there should be no good teason it can’t go the rest of the way.

I've found they seem to like a good dose of phosphorous... problem I think is they only really need ferts up until about the fourth week of bloom... much beyond that becomes too much for the plant to handle in flower. It all depends on how you grow and care for it really.

 

[Diatomacious]

Another big factor I found is that PH of the medium is highly important. I make my own remix of Farside's Faux Mix. Because I'm too lazy to portion it out, I just mix a 2 gallon bag of perlite (drainage assistance) to a 3cubic foot bag of peat moss.

Straight peat is difficult to work with for a first timer (and even experienced gardeners)... unless you have experience pH'ing a particular moss it is almost impossible to determine what the exact pH will be for a given amount of lime. Might be why your mix went funky after a certain amount of use... pH drift.

 

[Weaselcracker]

What were you using before

Before I switched to mega crop I was trying to match Skybound’s numbers, more or less, using a few bottled nutrients and odds and ends from the shelf. Not to say I wasn’t complaining about my plants back then too but I think overall they were better.

The one P Chunk pheno has always been a problem plant.

When I crunch the numbers for mega crop used alone -some elements come in very low. Skybound is usually quoting numbers based on adding calmag to the MC.

For the last few weeks I’ve been using mega crop along with low nitrogen calmag, and that seems to have greatly improved the situation. There’s one strain (besides the pineapple chunk) that is still having some issues but overall they’re way better and so I’m gonna keep tweaking the numbers.

I ran the plants on only mega cop for several months because that’s how a lot of people said it should be done. It didn’t seem to work that great for me.

 

[Diatomacious]

I ran the plants on only mega cop for several months because that’s how a lot of people said it should be done. It didn’t seem to work that great for me.

From what you are telling me those people probably had higher concentrations of calcium and magnesium in the soil already (probably from the addition of lime). The nutrient solution adds what it has in it to the soil... if the soil already has some plant essential nutrients in it then what is in the solution becomes "additive" to what's in the soil as the plant sees it. That's why soil testing is necessary for commercial agriculture... once the farmer knows what's in the soil he simply has to add enough more in order to hit his NPK targets. Outdoor dirt has a ton of plant essential nutrient in it naturally... those levels of nutrient do not simply drop to zero at the start of the growing season. Does this make sense lol?

 

[Diatomacious]

Almost forgot to mention @Skybound if you are not pH'ing you nutrient solution then it will cause the soilless medium to drift toward the pH of the solution. This may be a minimal impact compared to the amount of lime in the soil and why it took so long to present itself. Thought it maybe worth mentioning.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Does this make sense lol?

It does make sense as far as nutrients go, but actually the guy who is one of the main promoters of using mega crop by itself, and supposedly getting perfect results, is growing in perlite, and it is some of the soil growers having issues. I actually haven’t dug too deep to see how everybody’s plants are looking with it.

There’s a thread called the mega crop thread which I haven’t read but skimmed some of.
The forum management has an uneasy relationship with MC because they don’t want to make the effort to be a sponsor here- so obviously 420 doesn’t want large amounts of the forum dedicated to discussing their product. Seems like a weird decision on MC’s part because there’s a lot of demand here for it, but whatever...

From what I can see the MC plants look good at least up till mid flowering. Beyond that I’m not sure.

Anyway the stuff has potential- it is getting me most of the way there, and I’m only just now starting to play around with with the mix.

 

[Skybound]

Straight peat is difficult to work with for a first timer (and even experienced gardeners)... unless you have experience pH'ing a particular moss it is almost impossible to determine what the exact pH will be for a given amount of lime. Might be why your mix went funky after a certain amount of use... pH drift.

My soil got funky because the rona caused the world to halt which f'ed up supply chains and forced me to reuse already thoroughly used peat and not being able to get new peat or new calCarbonate/lime. Now that the supply chains are reforming and I was able to get new peat and the rest of it, mixed a batch and have been slowly changing out my entire grow, the new stuff is looking 6000 times better. As I understand peat, it has a very low PH (near 5.0) and the lime and/or calcium carbonate is what raises the PH of the volume of peat if mixed in a range of proportion, it will stabilize the PH of the soil to an ideal range acceptable to the plants regardless what the PH of the ferts is. This is why I am now running double the silica I was 2-3 years ago. Once I witnessed the success Farside was having with his Faux Mix with Megacrop/Calmag/ProTekt (5/5/5), I emulated his entire system and adding my own tweaks of course, I have now been doing it this way for roughly 2 years now and the only time I use my PH meter is when mixing clone juice. It is now my experience that the peat can be reused a lot (within reason) and the buffer should be updated between uses, but other than that, it's a brainless operation. The buffer enforces the PH, and optimal ferts regardless of their PH will conform to the PH of the media once it is added.

When I crunch the numbers for mega crop used alone -some elements come in very low. Skybound is usually quoting numbers based on adding calmag to the MC.

My baseline is Farside's mix of Megacrop-5, Botinicare or Greenway Calmag-5, and ProTekt-5, though I do use less silica. He uses 50ppm throughout, I use 20 in veg and 40 in bloom. I also have changed how I make my Faux Mix to convenience my access to supplies. It still works great and more drainage never hurt nobody. The ferts I also model after, except I'm obviously moving numbers around, but I do adhere to MC's practice of using 5% of total N as NH4. My past tests during High Brix Hydro revealed that 10% of N as NH4 was just a bit too much. In a couple of months I intend to begin testing increased NH4 in veg at least, but maybe bloom too. DB's soil method have revealed that NH4 stimulates resin production (cationic drink) during week 4, so maybe I'll think up a mid bloom regimen for it or something to that effect, but when using 10% NH4 in veg, I remember the greenery being so lush and perfect colored that I hope to one day reclaim that result. IMO, 555 in Faux Mix is a fantastic starting point and as the need to correct anything arises, it's already very close and should only need a minor adjustment to this or that, and most likely it involves calcium in one way or another.

Almost forgot to mention @Skybound if you are not pH'ing you nutrient solution then it will cause the soilless medium to drift toward the pH of the solution. This may be a minimal impact compared to the amount of lime in the soil and why it took so long to present itself. Thought it maybe worth mentioning.

Until only about 2 years ago, I grew in strictly potted rockwool cubes which is as soilless as it gets. All of them years I had to correct the PH of the ferts, but when I switched to peat with buffered soil, all the rules changed. The lime and carbonate in the soil took those responsibilities away as the buffer wins the PH argument with the nutes 11 out of 10 times. It's like the wife of that relationship and it is never wrong. I wonder if anyone ever tried to buffer coco? But I love having a buffered medium it allows me to capitalize on the pros of hydroponics while mitigating the cons of hydroponics.

Here's a pic of a week 2 plant. IDK why my pics are so yellow, maybe there's a macro or cam setting I can use to fix that, but the Mag deficiency gotten in early veg is all but gone, the leaves are beautiful and all praying, the purpling in the stems is retreating she is growing thick stems up top again indicating that the calcium is flowing good again. After tomorrow's chop, I will have to endure 5 more weeks of the Mag def chops and then it should be smooth sailing for a few months with heavy chops every week. I'm even considering opening a 10th flowering site so I can incorporate more sativa leaners into the grow and give them enough time to finish which would help me tremendously.

 

[Diatomacious]

It does make sense as far as nutrients go, but actually the guy who is one of the main promoters of using mega crop by itself, and supposedly getting perfect results, is growing in perlite, and it is some of the soil growers having issues. I actually haven’t dug too deep to see how everybody’s plants are looking with it.

From what I can see the MC plants look good at least up till mid flowering. Beyond that I’m not sure.

Well there goes that theory... looks like they have a 1 part and a 2 part so I'd have to know which he used and in what proportions. That's odd that the plants only do well til mid flower... what dosage are you running up til mid bloom?