Landrace Genetics 101

[yesum]

On the getting old seeds to pop. Wear nitrile gloves. I use magnification for the old eyes and a sharp knife or razor wiped down with alcohol. Scrape the seams on the sides of the seed and the pointed end. Take a pinch of earthworm castings and put it into a couple ounces of distilled water. Swirl it and let it set a day. Use that water to soak a paper towel and put the seeds into that keeping them at 80 to 85 degrees F. Inside a baggie of course.

 

[TorturedSoul]

^^ Yeah, at the last week or so I drop a Reptisun 10.0 lizard cfl in the middle of the canopy of plants.

That reminds me, I need to pick up an 18" Reptisun 10.0. The LED panel over my plants has one down the center, but it's burned out (I hope!).

I also use a 'Finisher' 10,000 K fluorescent lamp the last few weeks instead of the LED. Not sure if all this extra stuff works as I have not done a side by side with any strain, but I do it as the Kelvin scale of light at say 8000 feet elevation, is quite high or bluer than at sea level. Higher than 6400 K, so I am mimicking things as best I can.

I've seen high-kelvin metal halides before, primarily mentioned at "reefer" aquarium forums. I'd like to have a set of 7,200K(?) 10,000K
bulbs in both 250- and 400-watt versions to play around with, but money is kind of a thing.

I turn the uvb light on after I close the tent and the other finisher light I stay above the light so it is not shining down on me. It has some uva to it or so says the manufacturer.

Good idea! My skin appears to have aged, IDK, 10 or 20 years very recently. I mean like in the last few (at most) months. I never even thought about the fact that I've been hanging out around sources of intentional UV radiation. Oh... sh!t.

You are the guy that inspired me to register and post here, hehe.

Thanks, I feel honored.

Felt bad about you pining for the old Michoacan, I can relate. hehe Big Sur with his stories too and conradino23. Been lurking on this thread for a long time. Oops I guess it was the Oaxacan you wanted, just looked again.

Seems like all of those landraces were pretty special but, yes, the old Oaxacan sativa captured my heart (and ran away with my head ) and never gave it back.

I have a Mextiza going which is '79 Oaxacan with Jamaican and Nepalese.

Nice.

Strange how those old Mexican strains which always had loads of seeds end up so hard to find now eh?

Between my brother and myself, we probably dumped thousands of seeds out the bedroom window back in the day. I'd consider trading a finger (okay, one of the mangled ones) for any random handful of those seeds in viable condition. And the sad thing is, with all those seeds, some of the bud was still top-shelf. Imagine what it would have been if it had been sinsemilla. Speaking of which, all those years... killing every male cannabis plant in sight. <SIGH>

 

[Graytail]

I have thousands of old brickweed Mexican seeds from the 90s, poorly kept, and they'll crack just fine. But they won't sprout. I haven't tried many methods and I already have more strains than I can grow, but someday I'll find a way to get 'em that extra oomph they need to put out a root.

Heheh, I probably just need to toss a bunch out the window, right?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Heheh, I probably just need to toss a bunch out the window, right?

Yes, but... Mexican sativas... you're going to have to pour them out of the window from a good psychedelic rock double-album. And maybe you better light a stick of Gonesh #8 Perfumes of a Spring Mist about 15 minutes before doing so, to ensure that they're properly pre-treated.

 

[gato]

Imagine what it would have been if it had been sinsemilla. Speaking of which, all those years... killing every male cannabis plant in sight. <SIGH>

Maybe people don't remember Al Goldstein? He called sinsemilla "the surfer girl of pot" and that he "would rather smoke ditch weed".

 

[yesum]

^^ I think he was referring to the California sinse which seemed to lack that something special the better imports had. I had Mexican sinse in '85, the same as the seeded Michoacan as in '75. I think it lacked nothing the other had, other than seeds.

I have a old issue of High Times where 'R' laments the demise of Mexican weed. At that time I was taken with the new domestic hybrid stuff and did not really grasp what had been lost.

New is always better at first. Later you find out if that was just the novelty aspect of it making it seem great.

 

[TorturedSoul]

^^ I think he was referring to the California sinse which seemed to lack that something special the better imports had. I had Mexican sinse in '85, the same as the seeded Michoacan as in '75. I think it lacked nothing the other had, other than seeds.

Well, seeded cannabis tends to finish quicker (unless it was fertilized late enough that it wouldn't matter). So if what he'd been encountering was harvested when it was still immature, but the seedy buy was finished, that'd make a difference.

 

[Graytail]

New is always better at first. Later you find out if that was just the novelty aspect of it making it seem great.

Bells 'n' whistles ... shiny objects ... the curse of the 21st Century,

 

[gato]

^^ I think he was referring to the California sinse which seemed to lack that something special the better imports had.

Yes...if I remember correctly...think he was also making the case that seeded MJ had qualities just from being seeded. That got lost by it being made sinse. Think that was what he said...maybe memory fades.....been a long time ago though.
--
A small correction on you saying quality imports? He said ditch weed and he really meant ditch weed. The debate at the time was sinse vs seeded and he believed that even seeded ditch weed was superior to "surfer girl". That the plant was imparted qualities from fulfilling it's natural cycle that got lost by female only. At least I believe that was his thoughts.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Yes...if I remember correctly...think he was also making the case that seeded MJ had qualities just from being seeded.

That's a new one on me. I won't discount it out of hand, but I can't think of what he might have meant by such a statement. Hmm...

 

[gato]

That's a new one on me. I won't discount it out of hand, but I can't think of what he might have meant by such a statement. Hmm...

LOL...don't ask me. HE said it!

 

[Big Sur]

Yes, but... Mexican sativas... you're going to have to pour them out of the window from a good psychedelic rock double-album. And maybe you better light a stick of Gonesh #8 Perfumes of a Spring Mist about 15 minutes before doing so, to ensure that they're properly pre-treated.

The Mexican seeds prefer to be sorted and poured out the window on/from a fold open Santana album cover. If you can fund one these days... Santana is still around though. Maybe he can do it for you by hand?

With popping old seeds, they only really need to be scraped with a nail file to remove some of the hardened resin so that water will permeate the seeds. They may also need help popping the seed hinge to release the cotyledon leaves. The sativa strains have little issue with dampening off as well (Mexican, Colombian, and South African). I have a hard time with any indica seeds here, and half of them get dampening off when they are an inch tall. Even in sterile soil. So I am going to go with sterile perlite and sand next time. File seeds lightly, let soak for 2 hours in H2O2, then a day or two in a baggie with a damp paper towel at 75 F., then into perlite/sand, points up under T-8 daylight spectrum bulbs on a heat mat set to 75 F. My plan anyway. Enter the cat, mice, grandkids, and the dog to upset things.

 

[TorturedSoul]

let soak for 2 hours in H2O2

I've added a few drops of "regular" 3%-strength H₂O₂ to the water I was soaking seeds in. My motivation was for the extra boost of oxygen when the H₂O₂ decomposed (and, I suppose, for any anti-microbial effects that adding such a minuscule amount of it might have had).

What concentration of H₂O₂ are you using? And you're placing it in that, undiluted? For two hours? I'd think that any microbial life that may have colonized the exterior of the seed case would be dead in seconds, not hours.

Are you soaking it in hydrogen peroxide for this length of time in order to allow it to penetrate the seed case and affect whatever is inside? Stronger concentrations of H₂O₂ can burn the skin/etc. But this happens - to a tiny extent - even with 3%, I think. I mean... what's a few dead skin cells around a cut, right? But, IDK... The life within a seed case is tiny. I assume, it is not made up of the same number of cells as an adult cannabis plant (with the cells being exponentially smaller) but, instead, far fewer cells (but normal size). In other words, damaging or killing "a few" cells might be fatal to the organism, mightn't it?

Can you clarify? (Thanks!)

 

[Big Sur]

I've added a few drops of "regular" 3%-strength H₂O₂ to the water I was soaking seeds in. My motivation was for the extra boost of oxygen when the H₂O₂ decomposed (and, I suppose, for any anti-microbial effects that adding such a minuscule amount of it might have had).

What concentration of H₂O₂ are you using? And you're placing it in that, undiluted? For two hours? I'd think that any microbial life that may have colonized the exterior of the seed case would be dead in seconds, not hours.

Are you soaking it in hydrogen peroxide for this length of time in order to allow it to penetrate the seed case and affect whatever is inside? Stronger concentrations of H₂O₂ can burn the skin/etc. But this happens - to a tiny extent - even with 3%, I think. I mean... what's a few dead skin cells around a cut, right? But, IDK... The life within a seed case is tiny. I assume, it is not made up of the same number of cells as an adult cannabis plant (with the cells being exponentially smaller) but, instead, far fewer cells (but normal size). In other words, damaging or killing "a few" cells might be fatal to the organism, mightn't it?

Can you clarify? (Thanks!)

I dunno what there is to clarify here. I soak them in drug store 3% hydrogen peroxide for 2 hours to kill off anything on the seed coat. If you understand surface tension, the added H in H2O2 has an even stronger hydrogen bond making it far permeable than water. H2O2 turns into water pretty fast as well. Likely my open bottle of the stuff is pretty weak. No detailed empirical scientific analysis here. Sorry. Just what I do to my seeds. I have never lost any seeds this way that I am aware of. I typically get 100% germination rates. So if it works, why fix it? My issue with popping seeds is almost always with fungus and dampening off several weeks down the road. They grow and then... wilt. So anything to help avert that is what I am after here. Who knows what is on the surface of seeds that I have here. Most are bag weed seeds from decades ago. Some are new from this year's grows.

I use H2O2 as that is a natural molecule commonly used in nature as a disinfectant. It is what keeps honey sterile. It is also cheap and readily available. The seeds tend to float in the stuff with the high surface tension though. So I pop them down with my fingers. Which is also the reason that I go with more time to soak. A simple wash in peroxide will likely not do much, IMO. As for the increase in O2? Not what I am after here, like oxygenating roots later on. I believe that O2 is overblown by many Cannabis cultivators. If I want more O2 on my roots, I will throw an air stone into a gallon of water for an hour and water my plants with it. I use air stones in water for cloning (I have several cheap home made bubble cloners). But root rot can be averted using a less dense soil mix with a lot of organic bits in there, and by simply not overwatering them. I also add earth and red worms to my Cannabis pots to aerate the soil. I feed the worms coffee grounds and let them do the work. I also typically grow in plastic pots and I rarely have root issues. Well, actually with my Cannabis plants, the damn roots grow insanely fast! (if that is a problem). People tend to undersize their Cannabis pots and crowd the roots way too much early on. Even baby clones will outgrow cubes and Solo cups in a matter of days, let alone weeks or months.

 

[Big Sur]

Also to address your concerns about cell structure of the seeds? Cannabis seeds are rather large, as seeds go. Even the smaller sativa landrace seeds. They are also well protected. They have a hard camouflaged shell, and that shell is coated with resin that just get harder with age. That is why I scratch the surface of my old seeds, some of which are over 40 years old. That allows water to permeate the shell. They also have an inner membrane under the shell that coats the inner fruit, which is rather tough and sometimes sticks to the cotyledon leaves and has to be tugged off or it prevents the cotyledon leaves from opening or growing. I seriously doubt that any damaging hydrogen peroxide makes it past this layer in the soaking of seeds for 2 hours. I doubt that much makes it past the shell, or even the resin coating actually.

Cannabis seeds are big and tough. As for the cellular makeup of Hemp seeds, there were good studies done on Hemp seeds by the University of Chicago back in 1938 that are posted online. You can Google it. These seeds are designed for survival, for freezing (I have germinated seeds frozen for over 40 years with 100% germination rates), and for rapid response (germination) to favorable conditions. Its the after germination part that becomes more of a challenge with growing Cannabis, in my experience.

 

[kelticBlue]

So I am surfing the seed bank places like I do.

And I come across Ciskei from tropical seed. Sounds Interesting. A south african high altitude sativa and possible landrace. I was wondering if anybody had any real world info on it?
Sounds like it has been around for some time.
Ease of grow?
character of high?, I am not worried about potency, more interested in finding the happy place. Strong but comfy.

just thinking out loud last thing I need is seed but I like variety to much.

 

[Hash Hound]

here you go kB

Ciskei (by Tropical Seeds Company) :: SeedFinder :: Strain Info

 

[Pennywise]

Heres my PCK x Erdpurt i just chopped, it smells like bubble gum dipped in kerosene. Never had a plant that smells quite like this one. I'll dry in a refidgerator low and slow. Top buds ill smoke as is everything else will be dry sift.

 

[Big Sur]

That looks a lot like my Durban/skunk cross clone that I am growing now. Except mine is not smelling of skunk or Durban very much at all. They sanitized it, or it has lost its potency in breeding. I am always interested in early skunk strains. No one believes that here were many local grown skunk strains going around back in the 70s here. They all believe the Skunk #1 Amsterdam myth.

 

[Big Sur]

BTW, Countrybuddin, I would PM you, but it appears that I cannot. You are too new here I guess?