Landrace Genetics 101

[Conradino23]

Lebbies: They stopped flowering after a week. I think it was from light shock moving them from indoors 24/7 to ambient greenhouse light. I got an insane ratio of girls to boys: 4:1. These Lebbies are from 2 sources in Europe. They both show two phenos: one tall and skinny like a sativa stature with smaller leaves, and one fat and short pheno with long and huge leaves. I will be cloning both phenos and crossing one tall male with the tall and short females. Should be interesting.

Testing these land race Lebanese strains: they are similar, and downright psycho weed. They also taste like red Leb hash. The real deal.

I got two plants so far that look like females and both have more if a classic indica look with long, tall leaves. I never had any photoperiod shock or sudden and unwanted reveg though, cause I just don't start them indoor. Under sun all the way!

 

[Radogast]

Anton, Drum roll please: Medical Cannabis has been signed into law in Mexico as of just a few hours ago! So after 90+ years of prohibition, it is quasi legal there again now. It should be, as Mexican land race marihuana is a global genetic treasure.

The article I read said medical marijuana in Mexico is defined as less than 1% THC - so basically, CBD strains that can treat some people, but totally inadequate for treating most medical conditions. A baby step that is more of a feel good measure - but it may enable Mexico to do research into high THC medical uses.

 

[Big Sur]

Well, at least they can grow hemp and CBD strains there under national Mexican law. We still cannot do that, and 1% THC is enough to get you busted by the DEA for marijuana possession here in the states. The DEA THC limit in hemp in the US is 0.3%.

Baby steps, yes, but going on the right direction. Once the laws on on the books, ratios and percentages can be easily changed.

 

[Big Sur]

I got two plants so far that look like females and both have more if a classic indica look with long, tall leaves. I never had any photoperiod shock or sudden and unwanted reveg though, cause I just don't start them indoor. Under sun all the way!

Sadly it was in the mid 30s at night and only in the high 40s during the day here in May this year. There was no way to starts seeds outside. So I start them indoors and when it gets warm enough I move them out into the greenhouses. 2 years ago that was in April. I moved them after they put out the first true leaves. This year it was the end of May. A very cold and wet late spring here this year. Supposed to be in the 100s this weekend though. Now I have to think about cooling...

I wish I could do here what I did way back in 1972 in central coastal California. I tossed a lid worth of seeds into a cat's litter bow with some holes drilled into it and half filled with some sandy soil. That was in March and all it took was some water. 2 weeks later I had 50 plants growing. Bam! My mother asked me what the little trees were. I told her they were marigolds. She told me if they were marijuana they had to go. I said OK. So I cut a deal with some HS friends. They would take the plants off my hands, grow them, and I would get 8 females of my choice come harvest time. So they came and took the plants, and planted them in Carmel Valley at one guy's father's large ranch out there. Things went great for 3 months until... the foreman of the ranch came in one day screaming "Look what I found out in Oak Canyon?" Strapped to his horse were the lot of 4 foot marijuana plants, tied in bundles. And so my first big marijuana scheme collapsed. But that was/is an outdoor grower's paradise.

 

[WillGrow510]

Ah, yes. I miss Big Sur. Lived there for 5 years in the mid '90s. Just graduated culinary school and moved there to work at one of the hotels at 20 years old. What an experience. Exactly what I needed at that stage of my life.

My Thai Sticks keep on going. Still don't think they are ready yet. 18 weeks into flower now. Any of you experts care to lend an opinion? I'm thinking 2 more weeks at least. I read that they may need encouragement to finish. Don't know how to do that. So, here are some pics.

Any advice? The buds are like 3-4 inches in diameter. Not very dense at all as typical in this strain I hear. They are starting to foxtail.

Can't wait to burn some.

Peace, Aloha.

 

[DrZiggy]

Ah, yes. I miss Big Sur. Lived there for 5 years in the mid '90s. Just graduated culinary school and moved there to work at one of the hotels at 20 years old. What an experience. Exactly what I needed at that stage of my life.

My Thai Sticks keep on going. Still don't think they are ready yet. 18 weeks into flower now. Any of you experts care to lend an opinion? I'm thinking 2 more weeks at least. I read that they may need encouragement to finish. Don't know how to do that. So, here are some pics.

Any advice? The buds are like 3-4 inches in diameter. Not very dense at all as typical in this strain I hear. They are starting to foxtail.

Can't wait to burn some.

Peace, Aloha.

Great job on the TS!! (+) reps

you can accelerate the maturation by decreasing light schedule.
11/13, 10/14
lower temps if possible too

 

[Conradino23]

Foxtailing is normal in some sativas that are grown on 12/12 indoor. Switching to 11/13 should fix it, which is more familiar photoperiod for them. As far as maturation is concerned they're almost there. I can see a mixture of colours in these trichs with amber popping up. They rarely mature like hybrids do, which means it's up to you how long you want to keep them running. They'll stop growing for few days and then might go into a new spurt. The trick is to catch them in harvest window. But don't wait too long, cause sativas gain nothing by going amber. They actually lose their psychedelic kick and become dull or flat in high department.

 

[Radogast]

Foxtailing is normal in some sativas that are grown on 12/12 indoor. Switching to 11/13 should fix it, which is more familiar photoperiod for them.
. . .
sativas gain nothing by going amber. They actually lose their psychedelic kick and become dull or flat in high department.

Great gems of information.

I was feeling that about the amber - but had not known about photoperiod length and foxtailing.

 

[lazyfish]

Ug. I just harvested a Dr Grinspoon that may have hone a bit too long. I was super busy and honestly thought it would harvest on day 100 like it has for me in the past. When I finally looked on day 95 it was half red at least. I took her that day and, yes, the high is not what I expected. Still clear headed and trippy but definitely a flat feel compared to what I have experienced before. And exactly what con said, it looked ready for a few days (wish I would have looked with a loop) and then started pushing white pistils for another 10 days.

It also seems to be a different phenotype, so that might also contribute to the differences in high.

Anyways... fun thread here!

 

[WillGrow510]

Cool. Thanks. I see what you all mean. I thought they might be done, I hesitated because It was hard to see any amber, and a week later I got new pistols and fox tailing. Just now barely beginning to see any amber. It does appear the buds themselves continue to swell and fill out and that's good. It's what's keeping me from pulling the trigger. These buds are fat. Not dense at all, just real fat and sticky.

I know Big Sur has spoken before about photoperiod not being a factor as he has taken plants across the threshold a couple times and has had no problems. Very intriguing stuff.

I'll probably take them down this afternoon. I'm sure they will smoke well. That will make almost exactly 18 weeks starting under cfls and finishing under 600 watt HPS. I'll give them a little trim touch-up and see if they present well for plant if the month.

Thanks again.

 

[brightlight]

My sativa window for the soaring, elevating effect starts at 50% cloudy. Always want least 20-25% clear. Never want any ambers. Just my preference.

 

[Big Sur]

Ah, yes. I miss Big Sur. Lived there for 5 years in the mid '90s. Just graduated culinary school and moved there to work at one of the hotels at 20 years old. What an experience. Exactly what I needed at that stage of my life.

I was in the Silicon Valley at that time, riding out the high tech bubble through Y2k. Then the ride got really choppy and I bailed out of there in 2003.

My Thai Sticks keep on going. Still don't think they are ready yet. 18 weeks into flower now. Any of you experts care to lend an opinion? I'm thinking 2 more weeks at least. I read that they may need encouragement to finish. Don't know how to do that. So, here are some pics.

Any advice? The buds are like 3-4 inches in diameter. Not very dense at all as typical in this strain I hear. They are starting to foxtail.

Can't wait to burn some.

Peace, Aloha.

Looks like your trichomes are clouding up. So any time is a good time now. I prefer to harvest early rather than later, as I prefer a clear high. So I harvest when they cloud up and just before they turn amber. If you like more of a stone, leave then until they just start to turn amber.

 

[Big Sur]

My baby girls here are really growing fast in this west coast heat wave. In the 90s and 100s around here this weekend. Was at a steady 85 in the GH last week. Today its 100 in there, so I moved the plants to dappled shade in 90-95 out of the GH. Supposed to cool off to the 70s this week, and back into the GH they will go. Lebbies are really gaining height, even the low shrubby ones. The Durbans are taking off now and have doubled in size in the last week. Now I am afraid that they may get too big for my 8' greenhouses. So soon it will be pruning time, and so it will also be cloning time. After such a crappy May and early June, things have really turned around here this summer. Now that it is summer.

Happy Summer everyone! Except those in the southern hemisphere of course...

 

[Weaselcracker]

A couple plants I am growing- incorporating four pure sativa strains. The strains vary in amount of 'landraciness'.

The plant in the foreground is Ace Honduras, which is described as a 'second generation landrace'. This strain came up in conversation on this thread a while back when we were discussing a 'quest for weaker weak'. Anyway... it came recommended so I bought some. I think it's going to be nice- a zillion fluffy little buds just starting to form now after a long stretch.

The plant behind it is a three strain sativa graft I hacked together. A Thai/Malawi/Panama.

I'm unclear on whether the Panama contains any indica. I keep reading it described as a combo of three IBL sativas. But it sure seems to have some indica traits- and the high doesn't feel like a pure sativa to me.
I may sprout another and try for a different pheno.
I expected the strains on the grafted plant to somehow meld together more. Instead the three strains are exactly the same in appearance and smell as they would have been if they weren't grafted.

The only difference is that I'm feeding the plant to suit the needs of the rootstock (Panama) which is a fairly heavy feeder. This feeding level would normally be burning the Malawi and Thai for sure- but isn't.

Both these plants are at about six weeks flowering.
So far so good.

 

[Panama77]

Have you grown any Old World Organics stuff? I grew out one of their Panama crosses that was really nice. They do mostly indicas though, and this one definitely had that influence. But balanced. They've got some pretty nice pure Afghanis too. Last year I grew their Khost landrace outdoors in the PNW and it did shockingly well for how much rain we had. My Bangis from Ace even got all molded up, but not the Khost. It had narrow leaflets and kinda looked like the North Indian Charas plants I've grown. Nothing like the Kafiristani types. Very unique. Wish I'd made some seeds with that one. Can't find it anywhere now.

 

[DrZiggy]

Have you grown any Old World Organics stuff? I grew out one of their Panama crosses that was really nice. They do mostly indicas though, and this one definitely had that influence. But balanced. They've got some pretty nice pure Afghanis too. Last year I grew their Khost landrace outdoors in the PNW and it did shockingly well for how much rain we had. My Bangis from Ace even got all molded up, but not the Khost. It had narrow leaflets and kinda looked like the North Indian Charas plants I've grown. Nothing like the Kafiristani types. Very unique. Wish I'd made some seeds with that one. Can't find it anywhere now.

Welcome Panama77 to 420 Mag!!

to

 

[Old TimingMan]

This is a great educational thread, kudo's to conradino23 for starting this!

While I have not fully absorbed the 40 pages yet, I feel this is the right place to get some answers to questions I have!

I am fairly new to the 420 family but not new to growing...35+ years ago!

I decided to spend the holiday with my 87 year old dad who still lives like a stubborn old man at the homestead I grew up on, my dear mother passed a couple years ago, and because she was born in the dirty 30's was a borderline hoarder...Everything was boxed and stored in the basement...knowing this, I was looking to find some of my old '75-early 80's High Times magazines which I really learned to grow from.

So far I have not found the magazines I was looking for, but I did find this;

These are seeds from mid 70's to probably very early 80's that I sorted out of the mostly 1/4 oz bags I could score as is the old Olympia beer tray I used for rolling/sorting!...Mexican ditch weed was the common stuff which was loaded with seeds and not worth trying to grow,so were never saved.

When I could get treat strains like these I always saved the seeds, there were always seeds in the stuff I bought, and this is what I used for my grows.

My question to all of you old growers here is how to or will I be able to sprout these 40+ year old seeds...I am pretty sure the MW seeds are the old Hawaiian Maui Wowie (marked MW), Panama Red (marked P Red) and the (Gold) I think is Colombian, but could also be Acapulco or Jamaican strain..thinking it is Colombian with the 1975 date on the bottle.

I have read that using Gibberellic acid will stimulate old seeds, has anyone used this and if so what dose? Also how do you try to grow these if you can get them to sprout...My grows with these were on average 9 months from sprout to harvest outdoors, I don't have the luxury of outdoors anymore, I am currently set up for indoor RDWC & Coco.

Any advice is welcome from all of you!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Mexican ditch weed was the common stuff which was loaded with seeds and not worth trying to grow, so were never saved.

What a shame. A lot of that Mexican had fine genetics; it was just grown poorly, harvested too early, packaged when still half wet, stomped on by a 34-ton mouse wearing combat boots, then dropped into a diesel tank to make the journey. But the seeds - those .001% that weren't crushed - were often worth saving, IMHO, and realistically were the only thing of value in the sack.

My question to all of you old growers here is how to or will I be able to sprout these 40+ year old seeds.

Well, you might have about a 2% viability rate, and that's if you're extremely lucky. Still... getting ONE of each of those to sprout - and live - would likely be worth the effort of attempting to sprout all of them. Might want to grab a random seed from each pile, spit each in half with a sharp knife, and check to see if there is any moisture remaining in them at all. If life there be, it'll have a real challenge just in opening the seed case. Some people lightly sand old seeds or even attempt to weaken the area where the two halves of the case join by making very light cuts. IDK about the latter, as a person gets tired of seeing his own blood, lol, but I've had luck with sanding/filing old seeds. Not OLD seeds, lol, but old ones. I've also added a tiny amount of a kelp-based fertilizer to the water, something like what Neptune's Harvest produces. I cannot say whether or not that helped, but it did not appear to hurt. I was not doing it for any nutritional reason (although, in retrospect, it might not be a bad idea to assume that any stored nutrition is lacking in quality now), simply hoping that there might be some other kind of beneficials (plant hormones, et cetera). IDK. I had about 250 old seeds and was trying to germinate them in batches of 25. Think I got one from the third or fourth set :rolleyes3 . Seeds were between 10 and 15 years old. The resulting plant... I did not notice anything specifically wrong with it, but it appeared to be lacking in vigor. I never tried to flower it, but rooted several cuttings, which went on to become some nice but somewhat skimpy/airy bud. I attribute that to the fact that they were almost pure sativa and they were being grown under less than 70 watts per square foot of light, rather than of the age of the seeds.

Good luck with your seeds!

 

[Conradino23]

This is a great educational thread, kudo's to conradino23 for starting this!

While I have not fully absorbed the 40 pages yet, I feel this is the right place to get some answers to questions I have!

I am fairly new to the 420 family but not new to growing...35+ years ago!

I decided to spend the holiday with my 87 year old dad who still lives like a stubborn old man at the homestead I grew up on, my dear mother passed a couple years ago, and because she was born in the dirty 30's was a borderline hoarder...Everything was boxed and stored in the basement...knowing this, I was looking to find some of my old '75-early 80's High Times magazines which I really learned to grow from.

So far I have not found the magazines I was looking for, but I did find this;

These are seeds from mid 70's to probably very early 80's that I sorted out of the mostly 1/4 oz bags I could score as is the old Olympia beer tray I used for rolling/sorting!...Mexican ditch weed was the common stuff which was loaded with seeds and not worth trying to grow,so were never saved.

When I could get treat strains like these I always saved the seeds, there were always seeds in the stuff I bought, and this is what I used for my grows.

My question to all of you old growers here is how to or will I be able to sprout these 40+ year old seeds...I am pretty sure the MW seeds are the old Hawaiian Maui Wowie (marked MW), Panama Red (marked P Red) and the (Gold) I think is Colombian, but could also be Acapulco or Jamaican strain..thinking it is Colombian with the 1975 date on the bottle.

I have read that using Gibberellic acid will stimulate old seeds, has anyone used this and if so what dose? Also how do you try to grow these if you can get them to sprout...My grows with these were on average 9 months from sprout to harvest outdoors, I don't have the luxury of outdoors anymore, I am currently set up for indoor RDWC & Coco.

Any advice is welcome from all of you!

It's definitely worth giving a try. First freeze them for a couple of days. Then use GA or black tea extract. Give them ALL a nice, long soak of few days at least. Then transport to a towel and keep germinating in proper temperature. If you manage to crack anything that's great, but if you don't that's not the end. Toss them in soil or whatever you have and keep watering. Sometimes it takes 10 weeks, but they sprout eventually!

 

[Radogast]

It's definitely worth giving a try. First freeze them for a couple of days. Then use GA or black tea extract. Give them ALL a nice, long soak of few days at least. Then transport to a towel and keep germinating in proper temperature. If you manage to crack anything that's great, but if you don't that's not the end. Toss them in soil or whatever you have and keep watering. Sometimes it takes 10 weeks, but they sprout eventually!

Good advice. My best idea was OldTimingMan mail them to me so I could give them a try