Landrace Genetics 101

[TorturedSoul]

Lol. First time I ever tried to grow cannabis, the seeds didn't sprout - so the next time I picked up a lid, I just opened a bedroom window and dumped the seeds (and a couple stems) out it; out of sight, out of mind.

Shortly afterward, I learned to not pour cannabis seeds through my bedroom window .

 

[Big Sur]

I do believe environmentals matter. I would think harvest timing could be as much a problem as environmentals - especially with long flowering sativas.

Back in the day, I cleaned for seeds (by hand, we didn't have no stinkin' grinders in the 70s) because if you didn't you could blow a hole in the side of your joint and then it wouldn't smoke right.

You would think that harvest timing would be relatively easy. Look at the trichomes for amber color. Test them by trimming and decarboxylizing and smoking one hit or just taking a flower sample and testing them for THCa. Maybe some are in a rush to harvest, or inexperienced and do not realize that sativas take longer. Or they do not have ideal growing conditions. Some of these growers are still ramping up in the Green Rush here.

As for seeds, yes indeed. I still have one rolling tray left. Its a Couroc tray made in Monterey. It is black plastic inlayed with arty wood and metal work. They seem to be collectors' items now and sell for a lot on Ebay.

 

[Pennywise]

Mine was Ted Nugent double live gonzo.

 

[Big Sur]

Are all samples dried to a uniform moisture content level as part of the testing process? If not, might moisture content affect the numbers? I'm not really sure how the testing process works.

Rec and medical weed in Oregon is all lab tested and verified independently. They test for moisture and compensate for it. At lest that is what I was told. Lab testing here is rather spendy, and they test for THC/THCa and CBD/CBDa. Some medical places have their weed tested for THCV, CBN and the main terpens. They also test for pesticides and mold. Any failures and that batch cannot be sold, unless it failed for mold and then they can sell it (at a steep discount) to a processor that uses butane or another similar solvent that kills and removes the mold.

Also, would these various batches all be grown by the same person? Under the same growing conditions? Harvested at the same point in flowering development? All clones from the same mother? If the answer to any of those questions is, "No," then I would expect there to be some variation.

I would expect some variation, but not this much variation. 12%-22% seems a rather wide range though. Its the same shown on Leafly, where they have the strains and the percentage of THC and CBD listed. They are all over the map on many strains. All the weed I have is from different growers except for two (other than my own). I have about 12 purchased grams and eighths here. I also have about an ounce each of 6 strains that I grew. I like variety. I can grow and cure as good a product as they can. My OG Kush from last year has a really nice terpene taste to it now, and it is evening out in the high. At first the high was very stony, a bit rushy and mentally kluttered. Now it is more mellow. Likely some THC is converting to CBN and changing its quality. For the better.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Also, once the blooms are solidly set you can give them as much light as you want. I know this is contrary to what many say here and in books and what most people do. However, I have done multiple outdoor harvests for many years with indica and sativa and cross strains, and this is the case: I grow my mothers under lights in the winter and clone them under lights. I then get the mothers up to size and set them out in the GH in early April, and BAM! They set their blooms like clockwork. The switch from 22/2 to 13/11 triggers blooming. Then the blooms size up and they keep sizing up right up to the summer solstice when the sunlight hours here at the 45th parallel is 16/8 at the solstice. I typically harvest around mid June, cutting all the flowers off and leaving as many leaves as possible, and they re-veg usually within a week or so. Meanwhile I keep my clones under lights or augmented with light until late April here when sunlight is 14/10 and I move them into the GH for a summer grow and fall harvest. Then I let the clones and mothers all grow until I want them to bloom again, and I park them under 13/11 light for 5 days (I grow in 15 gallon pots so I can move them), and that usually triggers blooming again. Usually I bloom them in early August here, as the rains usually come by mid October in the US west. Last year they came early in September, and I had to finish my plants under lights. I know people in Europe that do three or even 4 cycles a year this way in places that it does not freeze very often.

So if I sent a plant into bloom indoors could I then put it outside when there's still less than 12 hours of darkness and expect it to finish up? I'm up on the 46th parallel and noticed that the dark hours don't get above 12 until late September, and I'm like, who does anyone grow anything outdoors here. We start getting freezing rain in late Oct...

 

[Big Sur]

So if I sent a plant into bloom indoors could I then put it outside when there's still less than 12 hours of darkness and expect it to finish up? I'm up on the 46th parallel and noticed that the dark hours don't get above 12 until late September, and I'm like, who does anyone grow anything outdoors here. We start getting freezing rain in late Oct...

Yes. Once the blooms are set, they will flower regardless of light timing after that. Several older books I have cover this in detail, and the more sun and heat that they get during bloom, the better the results. I am just above the 45th parallel here, and we get an average first frost in mid October. That is only the average though, the first frost is rarely that date, and lately it has been later than average. This past year was cool and wet in September and October, and first frost was well into November. But it was cool and wet and icky.

Freezing will do any and all Cannabis in. I was hit with a random non-forecast frost in Southern Oregon about 10 years ago. I had one set of plants left, the Big Sur Holy purples. They all froze and that was it for them. Harvest time. All popcorn buds, I made them into hash oil. Another reason to grow in pots, so I can move them indoors to protect from early frost. Usually it is for a night or two, and then things warm up again. Though... I was reading another old book of mine talking about keeping temps higher during late bloom to get higher potency. I may change my plan and finish my girls indoors under lights and 70 F. heat this year starting the first week in October.

As an aside, everywhere on this planet gets 12/12 sunlight outdoors on the equinox days in the fall and in the spring. No matter where you are, its 12/12 on March 20/21 and Sept. 22/23. The light will be longer than that with twilight though.

 

[Big Sur]

And of course the above is one reason why early breeders wanted early and shorter blooming indicas to cross with late and long blooming sativas, so that they start blooming in August and finish by mid October. Even in Central California the rains typically come in mid October. No frost that early there (if at all), but rain can cause botrytis rot in buds. Rain or frost, both do damage to flowering plants.

Last year I grew White Widow (among other strains), and that finished really early for me in late September. Nice and frosty buds. No botrytis. Good high.

 

[Conradino23]

I've been lucky so far with sativas. The latest I harvested was 3rd week of October with just a touch of mold on a flower or two. That was northern Indian charas variety. African and Mexican strains would finish here around middle October too. We'll see if my Colombian Gold finishes in October. Hard to say, but might not to as I'm forcing one now and she took 5 weeks to show sex so around 12 weeks of veg in total. Very, very slow.

 

[TheFertilizer]

And of course the above is one reason why early breeders wanted early and shorter blooming indicas to cross with late and long blooming sativas, so that they start blooming in August and finish by mid October. Even in Central California the rains typically come in mid October. No frost that early there (if at all), but rain can cause botrytis rot in buds. Rain or frost, both do damage to flowering plants.

Last year I grew White Widow (among other strains), and that finished really early for me in late September. Nice and frosty buds. No botrytis. Good high.

Yeah I've been trying to figure out if I'd actually be able to grow some long flowering sativas here. Hey does this hold true for indoor plants too?

Say, if I had a plant that I turned male with CS treatments, but I didn't want to risk pollinating my flowering plants, could I stick him in the 24 hour veg tent and still expect the flowering to finish? Always heard this would reveg but only if you pulled all the flowers off.

 

[Big Sur]

I've been lucky so far with sativas. The latest I harvested was 3rd week of October with just a touch of mold on a flower or two. That was northern Indian charas variety. African and Mexican strains would finish here around middle October too. We'll see if my Colombian Gold finishes in October. Hard to say, but might not to as I'm forcing one now and she took 5 weeks to show sex so around 12 weeks of veg in total. Very, very slow.

If your 'lumbo gold is like mine was in California, they just get started blooming in October (unless forced). They are really slow bloomers. Amusing about your long times showing sex. I snipped the tops of all my Lebs and Durbans, and put them in a bubble cloner under 12/12. 2 Lebs bloomed in 4 days, one F and one M. 2 Durbans bloomed in 5 days, both F. At that time the one female Leb mother also started blooming under long light outside, the same one that I mentioned above. I snipped the blooms off of her, but she wants to bloom again. Not sure what is going on. An auto? A super early bloomer? 2 more Lebs bloomed after 10 days, both F. There are 6 more that have yet to bloom after 2 weeks. Seems slow to me. No calyxes anyway. They may all be Ms. Some in the cloner are rooting. So I will pot them up. So far I only have the one verified male, the Leb. My female ratio is coming out high. Maybe these were fem'd? If the undecideds are all males, maybe not.

This year I have gone with sexing by forcing blooms under 12/12 with cuttings in a cloner. Not sure if it is better than just forcing the entire plant or not, which is what I have done before this. Taking large enough cuttings early seems to set them back about as long as blooming and re-vegging does. Six to one, half a dozen to the other I guess. Working these two strains is weird. Oddballs are the early bloom Durban girl, and one tall skinny Lebby that is a female, growing just like the male. It is already alternating bracts at only a foot tall. Strange genetics. Random field grown phenos, or the results of unstable worked genes?

 

[Big Sur]

Yeah I've been trying to figure out if I'd actually be able to grow some long flowering sativas here. Hey does this hold true for indoor plants too?

My experience has been that they will bloom for the same period of time under lights indoors or outdoors once the blooms have started. You can force early blooming by cutting light indoors or out, but you cannot speed up blooming and ripening times.

Say, if I had a plant that I turned male with CS treatments, but I didn't want to risk pollinating my flowering plants, could I stick him in the 24 hour veg tent and still expect the flowering to finish? Always heard this would reveg but only if you pulled all the flowers off.

I have seen that males act the same as females regarding flowering and re-vegging. Though if you force a female to a male, you may risk it reverting to a female by re-vegging. Genetically it is still a female. I have seen herms do some strange things when re-vegging. Sometimes they flip back to being females, sometimes they remain males. They are unstable, male phenos with female genetics.

Strains I have grown reveg'd when pulling all (or most all) of the flowers off and leaving as many leaves as possible. Last year I re-vegged after a June harvest, and in the fall I threw my mothers under lights after harvesting and leaving leaves on. They re-vegged in about 10 days, but the lower branches kept blooming. Lower branches get less light indoors under HID (light falls off at the square of the distance from the source). Anyway, after verifying that I could re-veg them, I pulled them as they were getting woody. Were I to do it again, I would have vegged and cloned the White Widow and GDP, and kept the clones through the winter under T-8 lights. This year is proving to be hard to find good clones. I have had people ask me for 'real' GDP cuts here, in Hawaii and Europe. The 'fake grape' taste GDP.

 

[Radogast]

ENJOY FOR THE FIRST TIME OF A TRUE ETHIOPIAN SATIVA EXPERIENCE THANKS TO ACE SEEDS!!

(13 hour ago in my email)
This seemed like it might be of interest to this group.

ETHIOPIAN STANDARD


The use of cannabis in Ethiopia dates back at least to the fourteenth century AD, where this plant has been cultivated and used in this country for centuries for religious/ceremonial, medicinal, recreational, and raw material uses.


Although cannabis is linked to Ethiopia around the world, especially since the 1960s, when the Rastafari movement from Jamaica began to promote the return of African Americans to Africa, and more specifically to Ethiopia, which they consider to be their original land, it is also true that Ethiopian sativa varieties are largely unknown in the world of cannabis, since marijuana production in this country is normally consumed locally and in neighboring African countries, and very rarely these Ethiopian sativas have been exported to the West, becoming available in very rare occasions in countries like United Kingdom, although the Ethiopians sativas have been and are still great strangers for the rest of European and American countries.


That's why at ACE Seeds we realized the importance of exploring and preserving the best sativa genetics from Ethiopia, and release them to the general public. For doing this, we started with ethiopian sativa genetics that the already disappeared African Seeds seed bank offered 20 years ago for a short period of time. We received several reproductions of this ethiopian sativa made by different growers and breeders. In 2015 we decided that it was time to rescue this variety, so we germinated all the different lines of ethiopian sativa that we have conserved for 15 years, in order to be able to realize a true genetic study and a work of preservation and vegetal improvement with this central african sativa, whose fruits of this work have finally led to the possibility that ACE Seeds has launched this pure ethiopian sativa to the market in 2017.


The ethiopian is a pure subtropical classic african sativa, of great value and interest for pure sativa lovers and for preservationists.

It produces a classic african sativa phenotype: tall, vigorous, flexible, strongly branched plants with long node length.
Excellent resistance against moisture, molds, wind and heat.

The long flowering time is compensated by an excellent final yield when is properly cultivated with strong light intensity and warm temperatures.

The ethiopian excels for its mental effect of great quality, highly appreciated by sativa lovers looking for the more active, sociable, kind and positive effects, always well focused, and without producing paranoia, mental or body heaviness.

Earthy and woody african sativa aromas, with floral, musky and fermented citrus touches.


Thanks to all this recent work, ACE Seeds finally offers a true pure landrace sativa from Ethiopia, with the best characteristics offered by these sativas, but improving and refining them (greatly reducing hermaphrodite tendencies and at the same time by selecting the best individuals with higher THC content and terpenes).

The results of the cannabinoid and terpene analyzes performed by ACE Seeds with our best ethiopian parental plants, scientifically shown that the ethiopian sativa we offer produces moderate / high THC content (for a pure landrace sativa) of around 10 % of THC, without CBD, which produces an almost pure THC ratio. Certain amounts of CBG have also been found in this ethiopian sativa. The terpenes consistently found in the Ethiopian are alpha pinene, beta pinene, beta myrcene, trans ocimene, beta caryophyllene, alpha humelene, with variations in d limonene and trans nerolidol among different individuals of the same variety.

( Ethiopian ACE Seeds cannabinoid analysis )
( Ethiopian ACE Seeds terpene analysis )

ACE Seeds has also shared genetic material from this ethiopian sativa with the US Phylos laboratory to perform genetic tests in order to obtain more information about the origins and genetic relationships of this ethiopian sativa with other african sativa varieties. Phylos genetic study has shown that our ethiopian sativa has a unique genotype (no genetic contamination or influence of modern western genetics), showing some kinship with other african sativas: mainly from Angola, Malawi, Kenya, Ghana, being able to be one of the main sources that would later conform the sativas from Paraguay

From the Ace website

Tipo LANDRACE STRAIN (P3)
Format Standard
Sativa / Indica ratio 100 % sativa
THC 6-12%
CBD Below 1 %
Flowering indoors 13-14 weeks
Flowering outdoors 3rd week of November
Yield High
Resistance against spider mites Average-High
Resistance against powder mildew High
Resistance against botrytis Very high
Resistance against white fly Average-High
Resistance against cold Average-High
Resistance against heat High
Latitude 0º-40º
Genetics 3rd generation pure Ethiopian sativa.

Structure
Tropical sativa structure, strong, vigorous, of strong branching and long node length.
Bouquet Earthy and woody african sativa aromas, with floral, musky and fermented citrus touches.

High
Classic african sativa effect: clean, mental, uplifting and positive, of medium strength. It leaves you happy and light, with a big smile on the face. Without mental or body heaviness. Perfect for day time smoke and for activities.

Growing Tips
It can be grown indoors with strong light intensity and with enough space for its development.
We recommend to switch her into flowering after 15 days from seed, or starting from clones rooted for at least 7 days.

We recommend 11 (light) / 13 (darkness) photoperiod for the flowering indoors, in order to boost the flowering, and to avoid reflowerings or excessive stretching in early flowering.

Outdoors, Ethiopian needs a tropical/subtropical climate or a warm coastal climate similar to Mediterranean to mature correctly.

We recommend soft NPK levels in the growing stage, increasing PK from 3rd week of flowering.
When Ethiopian is properly grown, the yield is very high, both indoors and outdoors.

Interesting sativa to develop sativa hybrids of huge vigor and yield, with clean and energetic effects.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I ordered some of those this morn when they popped up. Sounds interesting and I thought they might fill the same need as the Honduras I'm growing- weak old school style weed with a happy buzz that you can smoke all day ( I hope).

 

[Justwannagrow]

Ok guys, so Colombian Gold 1972 hit the market, and it looks fantastic. Just look up Underground Seeds, and you'll find it. I think I'll get me a pack

That's what they're selling on pics:

Looks like some boo boo

 

[Conradino23]

I'm growing it currently.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I'd like to see more information about the various African strains.

 

[Pennywise]

My PCK x Erdpurt "Evie" 12 days flower. 6-11-17

 

[Conradino23]

I'd like to see more information about the various African strains.

African sativas are for the most part related to each other, south or or north of equator. Most will be short to medium flowering strains with such speeders like Congolese Black or Durban Poison or Swazi Gold that sometimes are at par with slower indicas. These strains are rather speedy and stimulating and sometimes all the way psychedelic and mental like Malawi Gold. Usually they carry long, clear-headed type of high. Their THC content varies from low to very high, CBD makes for very small part and THCV is very often present in significant quantities. They're usually quite dense for sativas and great yielders. Mold immune too. Many hybrids were developed from this stock like Cotton Candy or Cannatonic. Not the type of smoke that a noob or prone to anxiety smoker will like, but good for people who really need a kick to get things done.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Not the type of smoke that a noob or prone to anxiety smoker will like, but good for people who really need a kick to get things done.

Been toking since '81 (can't say at what age), and I don't think I - or others that come into contact with me - would notice any additional paranoia on my part, lol.

Would you say there's less incidence of hermaphrodism, overall, than with the Asian strains?

 

[Conradino23]

Been toking since '81 (can't say at what age), and I don't think I - or others that come into contact with me - would notice any additional paranoia on my part, lol.

Would you say there's less incidence of hermaphrodism, overall, than with the Asian strains?

This I cannot say unfortunately, I've grown too few plants to see them in all expressions.