You're taking your time and growing these like champions! I'm also with Gee on Apple Betty! WoHoo nice plant!
Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch
- Thread starter
- #602
Thanks Stone! I’m concerned with bud rot for the Apple Betty. It struck the gelato auto for seemingly no reason. The third or fourth node on it got rot on the back lower side of the bud which was exposed to more air than most of the plant. It’s hit many of her plants before, and has done a lot to a lot of other grows around here.
I pruned it this weekend taking off the popcorn, separating branches, and opening up its middle section. Hopefully that will help keep it at bay.
- Thread starter
- #603
They look like they’ll want some water soon.. Since they’re in stretch and growing roots very vigorously I am keeping their water low. I could very likely give them a gallon each a day but I want roots chasing water so I’m really pushing them, they seem to be pleased.
- Thread starter
- #604
Just a heads up to everyone with a powerful LED, especially @Gee64 with his new light. If you look at my hygrometer in the background of this image you’ll see that even in flower I’m still running at 85F (it’s actually 83 in the image but it’s building up). When lights are on, I will keep the room at 85 as long as I possibly can, weather depending. I will try to run 85 until the last two weeks of flower when photosynthesis is no longer the top priority.
This is because both the microbes in the container, and the plant itself, both prefer higher temps than conventional wisdom says. The reasons are different but the same lol.
The microbes themselves just plain prefer it to be warmer. It’s easier for them to move and work in warmer temps. Especially for the sativa growers like Gee.. Another part of it is, these newer LEDs run extremely cool in comparison to even older LEDs let alone HPS and MH. If your environment and plant are dialed in, you can on average expect your leaf surface temperatures to be about 2 degrees cooler than your room. This is a massive difference from the old red heavy lights that would be able to push surface temps 10 degrees higher.
If a grower wants to pull out different colors from their plant this can be accomplished by ensuring you have about a 15-20 degree difference between lights on and lights off. Which means if you’re running lights on at 85, you should be right at about 68 for lights off. This will pull out those deep purples and reds that so many are after. Personally, I don’t care much for different leaf coloring, it doesn’t add much to the effect or flavor so it’s more cosmetic in my experience, being purple or red just means you had a temperature difference, it’s not a sign of quality.
Gee I assume you’re running at 85ish if you’re running on Revs recommendations, if not, I highly suggest you get it up there.
This is because both the microbes in the container, and the plant itself, both prefer higher temps than conventional wisdom says. The reasons are different but the same lol.
The microbes themselves just plain prefer it to be warmer. It’s easier for them to move and work in warmer temps. Especially for the sativa growers like Gee.. Another part of it is, these newer LEDs run extremely cool in comparison to even older LEDs let alone HPS and MH. If your environment and plant are dialed in, you can on average expect your leaf surface temperatures to be about 2 degrees cooler than your room. This is a massive difference from the old red heavy lights that would be able to push surface temps 10 degrees higher.
If a grower wants to pull out different colors from their plant this can be accomplished by ensuring you have about a 15-20 degree difference between lights on and lights off. Which means if you’re running lights on at 85, you should be right at about 68 for lights off. This will pull out those deep purples and reds that so many are after. Personally, I don’t care much for different leaf coloring, it doesn’t add much to the effect or flavor so it’s more cosmetic in my experience, being purple or red just means you had a temperature difference, it’s not a sign of quality.
Gee I assume you’re running at 85ish if you’re running on Revs recommendations, if not, I highly suggest you get it up there.
That's what you can do. I keep my dehumidifier on full from mid flower to finish. It gets dry but I seldom get bud rot.
- Thread starter
- #606
Indoors I don’t seem to have an issue, yet, but I am being extremely vigilant because I expect there to be a lot of mass in the room soon. It’s outdoors that I have the issue which is wild because the air is very rarely still here and it’s typically always at least slightly windy.
I’ve seen it on everything. I saw a customer with a scrog outdoors, no overlapping branches, still got bud rot. The gelato auto no overlapping branches, good spacing, fair airflow, rot. It’s frustrating.
@SmokingWings what is your experience with bud rot outdoors here? I thought it may just be my MIL yard but I’ve seen rot even in gardens where the grower was as experienced as I am.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I usually run in the 80s in veg and down to about 76 in flower, thats just where everything came together for me with my last led.
This new one runs considerably warmer even with the driver outside the tent, so it will be interesting.
I have never had a problem with a sluggish rhizospere other that December-February when the cold sets in and I add a heater.
Hopefully that changes this winter with the new light. I enjoy the color variations myself. It adds to the package.
All that being said, the summer grow when temps are up is usually the best grow of the year.
I will have a lot of fiddling this grow to figure out my new light.
85 is a good temp. Any warmer and stress can set in without enough atmospheric carbon available. Above 85 regularly you might want to consider CO2.
As long as you can keep your RH around 60, then 85 degrees works fine. Im lucky to get 45 around here.
If you are going to run that hot keep a close eye on your VPD.
85 room, 83 leaf, and 55 RH is 1.59 VPD. Thats already above optimal. 60 RH at those temps is 1.39 which is perfect.
You can easily flower at 60RH, you just need way more air flow.
Follow the brix. If it hits the wall be ready for anything.
To run that warm, your soil and atmosphere need to be spot on. You are photosynthesizing a lot.
My favorite sweet spot for flower is 76F atmosphere, 74F leaf temp, and 48 RH for a vpd of 1.40. Its like cruise control.
When VPD gets higher for extended periods hermies appear.
I appreciate the warning, I have my work cut out for me.
Maybe a gratuitous polar vortex will move in
- Thread starter
- #608
I usually run in the 80s in veg and down to about 76 in flower, thats just where everything came together for me with my last led.
This new one runs considerably warmer even with the driver outside the tent, so it will be interesting.
I have never had a problem with a sluggish rhizospere other that December-February when the cold sets in and I add a heater.
Hopefully that changes this winter with the new light. I enjoy the color variations myself. It adds to the package.
All that being said, the summer grow when temps are up is usually the best grow of the year.
I will have a lot of fiddling this grow to figure out my new light.
85 is a good temp. Any warmer and stress can set in without enough atmospheric carbon available. Above 85 regularly you might want to consider CO2.
As long as you can keep your RH around 60, then 85 degrees works fine. Im lucky to get 45 around here.
If you are going to run that hot keep a close eye on your VPD.
85 room, 83 leaf, and 55 RH is 1.59 VPD. Thats already above optimal. 60 RH at those temps is 1.39 which is perfect.
You can easily flower at 60RH, you just need way more air flow.
Follow the brix. If it hits the wall be ready for anything.
To run that warm, your soil and atmosphere need to be spot on. You are photosynthesizing a lot.
My favorite sweet spot for flower is 76F atmosphere, 74F leaf temp, and 48 RH for a vpd of 1.40. Its like cruise control.
When VPD gets higher for extended periods hermies appear.
I appreciate the warning, I have my work cut out for me.
Maybe a gratuitous polar vortex will move in
Rh is down because the plants need to be watered, the moment I water them it’ll jump back into the 60s. With the size of the pots and plants they handle the rh on their own. I’m already anal about airflow to begin with and my soil is on point. I tend to forget that it took a lot of trial and error to get to this point and I assume everyone is as dialed in as I am lol.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
It should be a fantastic flowering
- Thread starter
- #610
As long as the red ratio is good the literal warmth of the light isn’t as big of a deal.
When we/they say LEDs run cooler than HPS/MH it’s sort of implied they’re talking about the warmth of the light but I’m pretty sure it’s the amount of red in HPS that drives up the leaf surface temps, otherwise LEDs like yours and mine would push LST right up as well. @Melville Hobbes and I were talking about IR in @Jon thread the other day. If I understand it correctly, the red and far red really heat things up so running 85 with an HPS would be super high LST because of the heavy amounts of red in the light versus LEDs like ours with considerably less.
I get light mixed up a lot, it’s annoying because it’s literally life giving and just seems to elude me
- Thread starter
- #611
It should be a fantastic flowering
Im definitely in parent mode just super concerned about things I can’t control and the future and making sure they’re getting enough to eat
More of a problem indoors than outside. And, it has been a couple of years since I have had any show up. When I think about it, it has definitely been 2 years outside. It was on a plant next to the backroom doorwall to the patio. Have not noticed any at all on outdoor plants grown in the garden areas.
And it has been a bit longer for indoor plants. Come to think of it, I have not had any since I bought the tent that is for flowering.
I use the citric acid spray couple of days each week on the indoor plants to keep Powdery Mildew under control. Since I started that no Bud Rot inside.
This year no plants on the patio, just the two in one of the main backyard gardens. Still have not seen any and those have gotten a few citric acid sprays in the last two weeks to keep the Powdery Mildew under control. Buds looking mighty fine as of yesterday. Maybe I will take a look at them now instead of waiting till I get back home in a few hours.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I have always used LST to dictate distance from light to canopy and it has served me excellently, but now that Jon has schooled me on light I may hard set the ppfd and then adjust the vpd triangle to work with that and let the temps and humidities land where they land to make the equation work.As long as the red ratio is good the literal warmth of the light isn’t as big of a deal.
When we/they say LEDs run cooler than HPS/MH it’s sort of implied they’re talking about the warmth of the light but I’m pretty sure it’s the amount of red in HPS that drives up the leaf surface temps, otherwise LEDs like yours and mine would push LST right up as well. @Melville Hobbes and I were talking about IR in @Jon thread the other day. If I understand it correctly, the red and far red really heat things up so running 85 with an HPS would be super high LST because of the heavy amounts of red in the light versus LEDs like ours with considerably less.
I get light mixed up a lot, it’s annoying because it’s literally life giving and just seems to elude me
It will be a learning curve for sure. I need to figure it all out before I start any special projects or grows.
I'm toying with the idea of moving my carbon filter outside the tent to get an extra foot of vertical, then go with bigger pots and bigger plants, as this light has far wider coverage and far deeper penetration.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
And excellent worm foodThanks Stone! I figured I’d keep a couple runts and do mean things to them so people could see different effects. I’ve got one plant still in a 1 gallon but it looks amazing aside from a little hungry so it’s actually being a troublemaker by growing well
They’ll flower out consolation buds that will make good comparisons for the champs.
A lot of the modern LEDs have far red and IR diodes.As long as the red ratio is good the literal warmth of the light isn’t as big of a deal.
When we/they say LEDs run cooler than HPS/MH it’s sort of implied they’re talking about the warmth of the light but I’m pretty sure it’s the amount of red in HPS that drives up the leaf surface temps, otherwise LEDs like yours and mine would push LST right up as well. @Melville Hobbes and I were talking about IR in @Jon thread the other day. If I understand it correctly, the red and far red really heat things up so running 85 with an HPS would be super high LST because of the heavy amounts of red in the light versus LEDs like ours with considerably less.
I get light mixed up a lot, it’s annoying because it’s literally life giving and just seems to elude me
I'm wondering how much research has gone into figuring out the amounts needed?
Gee64
Well-Known Member
They look beautiful. Dialed inThey look like they’ll want some water soon.. Since they’re in stretch and growing roots very vigorously I am keeping their water low. I could very likely give them a gallon each a day but I want roots chasing water so I’m really pushing them, they seem to be pleased.
Get ready, they are on the launchpad and countdown is counting. They are on the verge of explosion, you can see it. They gots "The Look" going on. Baby flowers real soon now
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Usually, outdoors, your soil isn't near as robust or complete as indoors, and for most, outdoors is synthetic.
If your brix aren't up high enough you will battle PM and airflow won't help as much as you think.
When a plant drinks that much it releases a lot of moisture and although airflow will mitigate that, if your immunities are low PM will find a chink in the plant.
Outdoors its far more common as soil is usually of lesser quality. Plants also get bigger, so if you are outdoors in a pot with a big plant, chances are it runs out of nutes before harvest, unless you are in a huge pot or are very attentive.
If you see PM starting you should immediately check brix and go from there.
Wastei
Well-Known Member
I still don't understand why people on this forum insist on dialing plant health by measuring Brix? In big agriculture it's a measure for a nutrient dense food crop at harvest for investers and not much else?
In field agriculture you're better of doing proper soil and slurry tests to get some real data to work with mineral values. Brix is not a good measure for anything about growing Cannabis. It's only an easy measure for non growers to understand. You can't do much of anything when it comes to adjusting your grow or soil since the data only show total solids?
If you need it to tell you if a plant is healthy or not I think you got other more important things to grasp about growing?
Cheers!
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I purchased a UV/IR add-on bar set for my new light. I get the UV part for sure, but the IR is a bit tougher.
From what i have read, Its light that the plant can feel but not see, much like sitting in the shade on a very hot day.
The heat is there but not the light, so the plant thinks its in the shade which invokes a "Shade Response", as reports refer to it as, and whatever that plant would normally do in the shade, so lettuce gets lush, and weed stretches for the light, is what it causes in a plant.
So my understanding is if you know or research what type of "Shade Response" you will get from your plant, you can decide it you want to accelerate it by supplementing, or detract from it by unsupplementing, or not use it.
So really for us, weed will stretch, but what else I have no idea.
Its extremely interesting and possibly complicated so you know we all gotta mess around with it lol, but from what I have read, both UV and IR can screw things up if misused.
Another interesting angle I read about is to run it 10 minutes before lights on, and the last 10 minutes before lights out, so it feels warm before lights come on, and you go to bed nice and warm.
I think thats where the good stuff is, and its still dark to the plant so I think its possible stretch may be uneffected.
Maybe lol.
I've been using lights with IR diodes for a couple of years now, and I'm really not seeing any additional stretch. On the contrary, my plants have had very tight internodal spacing, although that could just be from my tendency to keep the light just far enough to avoid light stress.
I think there's more to the shade avoidance response than just the presence of far red/IR light, and the presence and intensity of other wavelengths might be a limiting factor for it.
I think there's more to the shade avoidance response than just the presence of far red/IR light, and the presence and intensity of other wavelengths might be a limiting factor for it.