Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch

Thirvnrob said:
Agreed, we are opposites! I prefer floating my boat in organic waters 😆
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No doubt my friend. I live in the city, no benefits for me going organic. If I'm on a farm, no doubt I would go organic.
But final product isn't any different.
Sorry for the hijack K, I'll keep quiet from here our.lol
 
GainesvilleGreen said:
Really think you want to be synthetic, between the catch trays to popping your solo cups for airation.lol
I ran organics for years and loved it but when you go synthetic,you won't go back..
That's 100% factual homie.
:passitleft:
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I take some of the ideas from synthetic growing and apply it to my grow. If it’s a good idea it’s a good idea. Synthetic isn’t my style though. I have a slight tremor so measuring out liquids is pretty iffy for me on a good day and I have always struggled with PH levels. Doesn’t matter if it’s 5,000 gallons of water in my pool or half a gallon in a jug, PHing always takes me way longer than it should 🤣.
 
The crew last night after having their training readjusted.. You can see in some of the images I was a bit too rough when they were young and damaged the leaves. Oh well, they’re still very healthy looking. I’ll be putting the last three plants into their flower containers within the week.

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I believe this plant here is going to be a male based on its structure. This one came up a week after the others so it did not have the same 12/12 schedule
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The coloring of it, the way it’s responding, plus the spacing on it makes me think male. So that will be 2 Blue Thai females and 2 Blue Thai Males. I’m gonna take clones from everyone over the next few days so I can settle everyone in before we flip to flower. If it isn’t a male then I’ll carry it through flower in a 5 gallon with @GeoFlora Nutrients

This is the Apple Betty
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It’s showing me strong sativa characteristics which makes sense with how temperamental it’s been. It has been much more sensitive than the others as can be seen by the serrations and the slight light burn. 3 grows under this light and each one has had light burn on at least one of the plants. Anecdotally, sativas seem to be much more sensitive to light changes than the indicas do. At least I’ve learned how to detect light burn before it actually burns my plants now 🤣 I’m glad I trained myself on sativas first, indicas seem to be much easier and more resilient than sativas

Here’s the neighbors plant
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Measurement says 7’6” I think it’s more like 8’. It’s tall. He’s got something odd going on though.. You can see the right side the leaves are fading and drooping, but just on that side. Should be interesting to watch it develop.
 
Wastei said:
synthetics where everything is listed and tested for contaminants.
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Gonna have to slightly disagree with this. There are plenty of synthetic nutrients/products that hide their ingredients behind the proprietary blend label. It gets even worse when you look at cannabis specific, or specialty lines. I’ve come across many more instances of “proprietary blend” when browsing synthetics than I have “organic” amendments. To be fair though, I don’t look at organic nutrient lines, just common gardening amendments like minerals and meals, so that very likely plays a role in my experience.

Regardless of that this is a good time to remind people, check your labels folks. Just because something says OMRI, or has cool looking packaging doesn’t mean it’s good for your situation. Even if your bottle claims its calmag on the front, double check what’s really in it on the back. If you’re in the USA you should be able to find the sds for your product online.

If you’re growing organically it’s really important to know what you’re using, as @Wastei pointed out, there are quite a few products that contain high levels of heavy metals that aren’t printed on the package, you typically have to go to the sds for that info. Lots of OMRI products have acids in them that just aren’t acceptable in my room but may work wonders in others. Know what you’re going to be putting in your plants and by extension your body/brain.
 
The crew, the whole crew, and nothing but the crew (and the humidifier 😂) 30 minutes ago
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You can see the 10 gallon plant was rapidly beginning to take from its leaves. The moment you see a deficiency/issue you need to jump on it, I saw the problem and waited two days. I knew I pushed the pot too far. I also knew I was going into a 10 gallon and it would correct so I just let it slide. By the time the plant loses 3-4 leaves she’ll have rooted enough to make up for it.

I’m also not mulching the container to help dry it quicker. I want the roots chasing water hard for the next two weeks before she goes into flower so she can really fill out the pot during stretch. I’ll mulch in stretch after I top dress a little EWC and fish bone meal. I’m gonna mulch two of the other containers and see if I notice any major differences. Loosey goosey but I have no clones up so everything is anecdotal anyway.

I’ll be transplanting the next 3 plants into 10 gallons on Monday. If what I think is a male winds up being a female I’ll send it to flower in a 5 gallon with GF bloom.
 
Wastei said:
Maybe he wants to know what "organically bred" seeds are? I'm also a little curious! :slide:
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Most seeds you buy are organically bred. Both the mother and father are from living soil.

Seeds grown organically by natures design come packed with microbes and fungal spores inside and on the outer surface.

Upon germination this sets up a microbiome that is transferred from the parent plant to the off spring and every generation tweaks this biome as the plants adapt to the world and walk the path of evolution. It is literally a plants version of breast milk.

I choose to pop my seeds directly into the soil but in a small blob of powdered spagnum moss on top of the soil as spagnum is sterile so the seeds biome can set up in it to innoculate the tap root before it reaches the soil. A bowl for the breast milk.

Most synthetics are designed to work in a sterile environment, so an organic seed can easily be entered into a sterile environment of synthetics as a lot of synthetics are specifically designed to sterilize the soil. If you dig deep enough you will see that most synthetic fertilizers are registered as herbicides and/or fungicides and/or pesticides because tbey work best that way.

So if you create synthetic seeds they will work great with synthetics in a sterile environment but without a dose of mothers milk to start the immunities needed to survive in an organic environment they don't do as well.

Seed companies know this so they breed organically as those seeds work equally as well both ways.

So back to Keffs idea of standardizing, every batch of organically grown seeds is evolutionally more evolved than the last so standardization must chase it.

Thats why there are dozens of standardized synthetic systems but no standardized organic systems.

One is evolution and one is revolution.

As far as one being better than the other, you will have to define your interpretation of better, because both organics and synthetics work exceptionally well.
 
Gee64 said:
Most seeds you buy are organically bred. Both the mother and father are from living soil.

Seeds grown organically by natures design come packed with microbes and fungal spores inside and on the outer surface.

Upon germination this sets up a microbiome that is transferred from the parent plant to the off spring and every generation tweaks this biome as the plants adapt to the world and walk the path of evolution. It is literally a plants version of breast milk.

I choose to pop my seeds directly into the soil but in a small blob of powdered spagnum moss on top of the soil as spagnum is sterile so the seeds biome can set up in it to innoculate the tap root before it reaches the soil. A bowl for the breast milk.

Most synthetics are designed to work in a sterile environment, so an organic seed can easily be entered into a sterile environment of synthetics as a lot of synthetics are specifically designed to sterilize the soil. If you dig deep enough you will see that most synthetic fertilizers are registered as herbicides and/or fungicides and/or pesticides because tbey work best that way.

So if you create synthetic seeds they will work great with synthetics in a sterile environment but without a dose of mothers milk to start the immunities needed to survive in an organic environment they don't do as well.

Seed companies know this so they breed organically as those seeds work equally as well both ways.

So back to Keffs idea of standardizing, every batch of organically grown seeds is evolutionally more evolved than the last so standardization must chase it.

Thats why there are dozens of standardized synthetic systems but no standardized organic systems.

One is evolution and one is revolution.

As far as one being better than the other, you will have to define your interpretation of better, because both organics and synthetics work exceptionally well.
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No......No.....No

Only reason why folks incorporate organic because it's easy bro...

Give me that shit you're smoking... AGAIN!!!
It's all GENETICS!!?
Jesus fucking Christ
 
GainesvilleGreen said:
It definitely is my bro..
Mom died in 2018 eating all organics, and I'm a mommas boy and Dad eating hamburgers/hotdogs/just all around greese..lol .still kicking almost 90..
:passitleft:
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Genetics are definitely one of the biggest factors. Poor quality stuff grown well is still poor quality stuff. However, you can amplify the benefits of good genetics with complimentary processes. Using humans as an example, Lebron/MJ come from really good genetics but it’s the work to complement those genetics that set them apart from the rest.

At the end of the day though, if it’s in the DNA to be weak and/or sickly, it’s just in the DNA and we can’t fix that, yet, if we don’t blow ourselves up first. However I am concerned that being able to manipulate genetics is a guaranteed way to make sure inequality gets a million times worse.
 
Keffka said:
Genetics are definitely one of the biggest factors. Poor quality stuff grown well is still poor quality stuff. However, you can amplify the benefits of good genetics with complimentary processes. Using humans as an example, Lebron/MJ come from really good genetics but it’s the work to complement those genetics that set them apart from the rest.

At the end of the day though, if it’s in the DNA to be weak and/or sickly, it’s just in the DNA and we can’t fix that, yet, if we don’t blow ourselves up first. However I am concerned that being able to manipulate genetics is a guaranteed way to make sure inequality gets a million times worse.
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Genetics are everything! Why do we select during breeding? Not because some have better soil. Lol...Quit frankly, I want the survival of the hunt in the family.
To think the substrate would make a overall difference is funny. Imo
 
GainesvilleGreen said:
Genetics are everything! Why do we select during breeding? Not because some have better soil. Lol...Quit frankly, I want the survival of the hunt in the family.
To think the substrate would make a overall difference is funny. Imo
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So why do most reputable seed producers breed in soil? The only time the substrate makes a difference is if it's not full spectrum broad nutrition soil with proper water and conditioners. Thats proven science. Look it up.

Anything else curbs genetic expression. Again...science...look it up.

Thats not to say you cant do selective breeding in hydro, you are just limiting your selections is all. And most likely dealing with damaged DNA.

Damaged DNA however is a misleading term because evolution happens by DNA getting damaged but, for what us stoners are doing, you get a better DNA selection in living soil as the seeds get a wider field of expression.

Can you talk to your plants to find out EXACTLY what they require to fulfill their full genetic expressions? Myco can.
 
Gee64 said:
So why do most reputable seed producers breed in soil? The only time the substrate makes a difference is if it's not full spectrum broad nutrition soil with proper water and conditioners. Thats proven science. Look it up.

Anything else curbs genetic expression. Again...science...look it up.

Thats not to say you cant do selective breeding in hydro, you are just limiting your selections is all. And most likely dealing with damaged DNA.

Damaged DNA however is a misleading term because evolution happens by DNA getting damaged but, for what us stoners are doing, you get a better DNA selection in living soil as the seeds get a wider field of expression.

Can you talk to your plants to find out EXACTLY what they require to fulfill their full genetic expressions? Myco can.
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Damaged DNA is a fair classification. We humans have tons of it, especially those of us with Y chromosomes. The Y chromosome is honestly just a garbage bin full of useless and degraded DNA with a handful of somewhat decent genes we don’t have much use for in the modern era.

I don’t know if I’m willing to say DNA degradation is one of the driving forces behind evolution. I think it’s the other way around. Specialization usually, or even just evolution itself happens, which in turn causes the degradation in the DNA I believe. I’m a bit hazy on my DNA knowledge but it seems to me that would be the logical process.

Regardless with the huge leaps in microscopy we’re finally starting to see things we’ve never been able to see before. For example, DNA writhes and twists around in ways we had no idea about until recently under AMF. I can’t even begin to imagine the implications of the movement inside the cells and what sort of impact that has on degradation, evolution, or even expression!

This, along with just how little we actually know about DNA is why I’m not willing to tell anyone else that their perception/reality isn’t what they claim it to be. Who knows what happens to you or how you feel if for instance your DNA jiggles slightly faster or irregular than mine, and that’s just the jiggling without even touching on degraded genes.
 
I’ve got 3 out of 4 plants in their 10 gallons now. I chopped off the 2nd nodes on the plants and threw them in a cup of water for clones while I figure out what to do with them.

I trained the first 10 gallon plant yesterday. I would like to run the branches horizontal toward the edge of the pot until I flip to flower then let them run up. I’ll train the other plants in a couple days once they’ve adjusted to the flower containers. I’ll be flipping to flower 2 weeks from yesterday, Monday will be Day 60

I’ll snap pictures next time the light is on
 
Last night after what I call ‘The Trauma’.

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So I sat down to stretch a few of the plants out and get them ready for training. I just grab the branches I want to be in a certain position and slowly work them into the position I want them in. This makes it easier to tie them down for training.

I wasn’t thinking and I used one hand to push down the two main axial branches on the bottom left corner plant instead of grabbing each branch individually. Normally this wouldn’t be an issue, however, I did not go high enough when topping the plant above the third node this time. So because I didn’t go high enough on the main stem this left the stem weaker than normal, and it split when I pushed down on the axial branches.

Here’s an example of the split:
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That’s not my image, but it looks exactly like what happened to my plant. I didn’t snap a picture of it because I jumped into Dr mode and wrapped the stem instead of taking pictures. I used plastic green garden tape and wrapped it around the stem and over the branches at the split. It’s a very healthy plant so I expect it will bounce back pretty quickly, plus, once it heals, it’ll be even stronger right at a crucial point.

In relation to the grow itself. These pots I bought are supposed to be 10 gallon containers.. I could very easily get 15 gallons of soil into them. Each of the containers has been filled with 10 gallons of soil before I even accounted for the 1-2 gallon root balls and there is still a few inches to the top which can be seen in the pic. Once the grow is finished I will fill a container to the max capacity I would use and see just how much soil that is.
 
Keffka said:
Last night after what I call ‘The Trauma’.

IMG_5896.jpeg


So I sat down to stretch a few of the plants out and get them ready for training. I just grab the branches I want to be in a certain position and slowly work them into the position I want them in. This makes it easier to tie them down for training.

I wasn’t thinking and I used one hand to push down the two main axial branches on the bottom left corner plant instead of grabbing each branch individually. Normally this wouldn’t be an issue, however, I did not go high enough when topping the plant above the third node this time. So because I didn’t go high enough on the main stem this left the stem weaker than normal, and it split when I pushed down on the axial branches.

Here’s an example of the split:
IMG_5899.jpeg


That’s not my image, but it looks exactly like what happened to my plant. I didn’t snap a picture of it because I jumped into Dr mode and wrapped the stem instead of taking pictures. I used plastic green garden tape and wrapped it around the stem and over the branches at the split. It’s a very healthy plant so I expect it will bounce back pretty quickly, plus, once it heals, it’ll be even stronger right at a crucial point.
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Been there done that🤣. I used duct tape because it was in reach and it healed really well. It grew a knuckle of sorts but the plant was fine. The limb wilted but 24 hours later it was perfect again.
 
Gee64 said:
So why do most reputable seed producers breed in soil? The only time the substrate makes a difference is if it's not full spectrum broad nutrition soil with proper water and conditioners. Thats proven science. Look it up.

Anything else curbs genetic expression. Again...science...look it up.

Thats not to say you cant do selective breeding in hydro, you are just limiting your selections is all. And most likely dealing with damaged DNA.

Damaged DNA however is a misleading term because evolution happens by DNA getting damaged but, for what us stoners are doing, you get a better DNA selection in living soil as the seeds get a wider field of expression.

Can you talk to your plants to find out EXACTLY what they require to fulfill their full genetic expressions? Myco can.
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That's not proven science and don't have to look that up base on experience.
Thanks Gee. We are just in a disagreement here and that ok respectfully bro.
 
Hey Keff, well everyone for that matter, I need your thoughts on something. I have an old friend who has grown non stop since the early 80's.

He has guided me on more than one occasion but his logic is purely stoner logic and a ton of real life experience. Never even graduated grade 12.

I asked him about why these new LED's were such magnesium pigs and he said "Well thats easy, turn them down a bit, they are over-photosynthesizing" to which I said "Well I kinda figured that but how do you get it all to work at 100?" and he said "Come on dude, think about it for a sec?" To which I said "Oh Ive got more than a second in on this, its driving me nuts" and he said "you need more carbon" to which I said "Well I'm already using atmospheric carbon not soil carbon so adding more coco is pointless" and he said "Gee, you have hit the wall, you need CO2 at that PAR, otherwise the weakest link gets exposed and Magnesium is always the bitch, you know that, thats why you hate it" and I said "that doesn't make sense" and he said ," If you work too hard do you sweat? and I said "Yeah" and he said "If carbon never runs out plants never work hard, if it does they start to sweat, get it now?"

What do you guys think?
 
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