Keffkas Coast Of Maine Line, TLO/LOS Style, Bagseed, Indoor Grow

[Keffka]

Hey Keffkas

Hope all is well. I was looking over some of your post and now that I realize Coast of main is a soil/nute line and not a place (true story) and if i am not mistaken is a brand of Super soil. For my next grow I am using purple cow Indicanja also a super soil. I plan on also using a SIP
Any way if you are using a super soil or have in the past could I get you opinion? I have read nothing but good things about it. and would love to hear some first hand experiences

Thanks
Savvage61

I absolutely love super soils, LOS, TLO, etc. I grew Bagseed with it last grow and it was some of the best cannabis I’ve ever smoked. It was so good I don’t really want to smoke anything else any more. I wasn’t a weed snob until I tried it and now nothing else compares. Edibles don’t normally get me high but I have a feeling if I make the edibles out of the stuff I’m growing now, it will get the job done.

I’ll take a look at the stuff you’re gonna use and let you know what I think. In the meantime if you’ve got any questions feel free to ask away.

 

[Keffka]

Mail just came by.. Got my contest package from @Herbies Seeds

I looked up the strains and they look pretty good, especially the Apple Betty and the Runtz Punch, I love a good indica. Im excited to see how they come out. Probably make for some cool pictures as well. The gelato should be interesting. I’ve never run an auto so I’ll have to do a bit of reading on it before I pop those, and will probably run them on their own.

I think my next run will be Blue Thai from Rev, plus the apple Betty and Runtz Punch. I’ll have plenty of sativa from this current grow so it’ll be time to stock up the indica dominants.

Funnily, I was just thinking the other day about buying a sleeping mask and my package showed up with one wrapped around the seeds lol

Still waiting on the @GeoFlora Nutrients and the @GeoPot to show up

 

[Savvage61]

I absolutely love super soils, LOS, TLO, etc. I grew Bagseed with it last grow and it was some of the best cannabis I’ve ever smoked. It was so good I don’t really want to smoke anything else any more. I wasn’t a weed snob until I tried it and now nothing else compares. Edibles don’t normally get me high but I have a feeling if I make the edibles out of the stuff I’m growing now, it will get the job done.

I’ll take a look at the stuff you’re gonna use and let you know what I think. In the meantime if you’ve got any questions feel free to ask away.

I have a ton of questions lol. Ill hit ya up when I have time BTW I grew a Herbie Auto Gelato it had Enormous Dense Buds most bud I ever got off a auto and it was very good .

ah lemme go ahead and ask a question or two

1. have you had to deal with deficiencies often or do the microbes take care of most problems. how hard is it to maintain the living soil For lack of better words isnt it like its own ecosystem ?
2. they say it isnt necessary but do you use any micro or macro Nutrients? the only thing I would use would be Cal/mag and for flower terpinator for terps and Incredible Bulk (bud booster all phosphorous and potassium 100% organic)

Thanks for the offer to help Ill have more questions once i start this nest grow
Thank you

 

[Keffka]

So there’s organic and organicish. Organic as I view it is when we feed the soil and the microbes themselves, and allow the plant and the micro life to communicate with each other to decide what is needed and when. This method involves putting what is needed into the pot beforehand, and top dressing as needed, if needed. There are no acids, chelates, or additives. Just food for the micro life.

This will allow a plant to reach its maximum genetic potential, bringing out deep flavors and effects that are extremely impressive. There is no need for flower boosters, terp boosters, bulking agents, none of that. Allowing the soil food web and the plant to grow in harmony will produce a flower that no amount of additions or products can replicate or even come close to.

Then there’s organicish. Organicish is when you use organic products, sources, and acids. With this method you’re feeding the plant, not the soil, and are deciding what the plant gets and when. Oftentimes microbes and fungi are used to help feed or protect the plant, but the grower is still in charge of delivering the majority of the plants resources.

This will give you a noticeably higher quality flower than synthetic, but the plant won’t reach its maximum genetic potential. Terp and bloom boosters would probably have some decent effects with this method but you’ll still fall short of what’s possible.

1. have you had to deal with deficiencies often or do the microbes take care of most problems. how hard is it to maintain the living soil For lack of better words isnt it like its own ecosystem ?

Yes and no. I say this because it’s not so much a deficiency as it is, the plant has become too large for its pot. One of the best ways to avoid any sort of “deficiency” is to use an appropriately sized container to begin with. 7 gallons is the bare minimum, however I would recommend closer to 10. 15 if you plan on running a 120 day grow. If you use an appropriate size container, you will only ever need pure water, nothing else.

If you’re going to go below these pot sizes, then you need to be prepared for a lack of carbon in your grow making it impossible for the microbes to do their job. You’ll also run into the sources of food not being enough to keep up with the plant. This is when you’ll see problems that need correcting.

If you’re gonna grow organicish then going below pot sizes is fine since you’re gonna be pumping everything into them anyway, but if you’re shooting for organic (Living soil) you’ve gotta make sure to provide the proper amount of food for the micro life and enough carbon to power it all. The larger the container the less you need to amend. You can abuse this a little in smaller containers by using layers and spikes of microbe food and carbon but that’s getting ahead.

Maintaining the soil is really easy. It may seem daunting at first especially with all of the recommendations out there, but it really only boils down to a few main amendments that we use consistently. If you go the organic route you can recycle your soil over and over with it becoming more and more effective with every grow. This has a lot to do with rhizophagy bacteria but that’s also getting ahead lol.

2. they say it isnt necessary but do you use any micro or macro Nutrients? the only thing I would use would be Cal/mag and for flower terpinator for terps and Incredible Bulk (bud booster all phosphorous and potassium 100% organic

Cannabis enjoys a slow steady diet of calcium and magnesium to power the majority of its growth, signaling, processing, etc. I use non chelated calmag which is just calcium and magnesium, nothing else. No iron, no chelates, just calcium and magnesium. I’m trying to get Dolomite lime water working so I can replace the calmag bottle but as it stands that’s the only “nutrients” I use. I also only use 50 ppms at a time every time.

When I’m using pots that are too small like I am currently, I have to top dress food for the microbes to continue processing since the container can no longer keep up by itself. I also use aerated compost teas to keep the microbe and fungi populations up and happy. If I want to “enhance” or add to the plant, I use an aerated compost tea.

Another bit of info on the organic vs organicish is.. When growing organic, OMRI labels and things being called “100% organic” don’t really mean anything to us. We’re more concerned with what’s actually in the products that we are using. There’s tons of “100% organic” and OMRI certified products that I wouldn’t let anywhere near my grow due to the Chelates and organic acids that would screw up my micro life populations. Chelating is something microbes themselves do and stealing that job from them disrupts the soil food web balance.

If you’re going with organicish then 100% organic and OMRI labeled stuff can be useful, but it still doesn’t trump knowing what’s actually in the products.

Both methods in my opinion are better than synthetic. However the difference to me is sort of like the difference in buying organic fruit from a chain grocery or big box store versus buying fruit fresh from a farmer or fruit market. Organic is the farmers/fruit market, organicish is the big box store organic produce.

If organic seems a bit overwhelming then organicish is a great way to cut your teeth on your way to organic.

If it all seems like a bit much and you really prefer being able to precisely measure out exactly what your plant is getting and when, then organicish is the way, and is at least better than synthetic. This is all in my opinion obviously but I’ve seen and experienced the results of all 3 and there’s a clear winner in my mind.




Keep firing away with any and all questions. I don’t mind them at all, and if you need me to explain or expand on something let me know please

 

[Gee64]

So there’s organic and organicish. Organic as I view it is when we feed the soil and the microbes themselves, and allow the plant and the micro life to communicate with each other to decide what is needed and when. This method involves putting what is needed into the pot beforehand, and top dressing as needed, if needed. There are no acids, chelates, or additives. Just food for the micro life.

This will allow a plant to reach its maximum genetic potential, bringing out deep flavors and effects that are extremely impressive. There is no need for flower boosters, terp boosters, bulking agents, none of that. Allowing the soil food web and the plant to grow in harmony will produce a flower that no amount of additions or products can replicate or even come close to.

Then there’s organicish. Organicish is when you use organic products, sources, and acids. With this method you’re feeding the plant, not the soil, and are deciding what the plant gets and when. Oftentimes microbes and fungi are used to help feed or protect the plant, but the grower is still in charge of delivering the majority of the plants resources.

This will give you a noticeably higher quality flower than synthetic, but the plant won’t reach its maximum genetic potential. Terp and bloom boosters would probably have some decent effects with this method but you’ll still fall short of what’s possible.



Yes and no. I say this because it’s not so much a deficiency as it is, the plant has become too large for its pot. One of the best ways to avoid any sort of “deficiency” is to use an appropriately sized container to begin with. 7 gallons is the bare minimum, however I would recommend closer to 10. 15 if you plan on running a 120 day grow. If you use an appropriate size container, you will only ever need pure water, nothing else.

If you’re going to go below these pot sizes, then you need to be prepared for a lack of carbon in your grow making it impossible for the microbes to do their job. You’ll also run into the sources of food not being enough to keep up with the plant. This is when you’ll see problems that need correcting.

If you’re gonna grow organicish then going below pot sizes is fine since you’re gonna be pumping everything into them anyway, but if you’re shooting for organic (Living soil) you’ve gotta make sure to provide the proper amount of food for the micro life and enough carbon to power it all. The larger the container the less you need to amend. You can abuse this a little in smaller containers by using layers and spikes of microbe food and carbon but that’s getting ahead.

Maintaining the soil is really easy. It may seem daunting at first especially with all of the recommendations out there, but it really only boils down to a few main amendments that we use consistently. If you go the organic route you can recycle your soil over and over with it becoming more and more effective with every grow. This has a lot to do with rhizophagy bacteria but that’s also getting ahead lol.



Cannabis enjoys a slow steady diet of calcium and magnesium to power the majority of its growth, signaling, processing, etc. I use non chelated calmag which is just calcium and magnesium, nothing else. No iron, no chelates, just calcium and magnesium. I’m trying to get Dolomite lime water working so I can replace the calmag bottle but as it stands that’s the only “nutrients” I use. I also only use 50 ppms at a time every time.

When I’m using pots that are too small like I am currently, I have to top dress food for the microbes to continue processing since the container can no longer keep up by itself. I also use aerated compost teas to keep the microbe and fungi populations up and happy. If I want to “enhance” or add to the plant, I use an aerated compost tea.

Another bit of info on the organic vs organicish is.. When growing organic, OMRI labels and things being called “100% organic” don’t really mean anything to us. We’re more concerned with what’s actually in the products that we are using. There’s tons of “100% organic” and OMRI certified products that I wouldn’t let anywhere near my grow due to the Chelates and organic acids that would screw up my micro life populations. Chelating is something microbes themselves do and stealing that job from them disrupts the soil food web balance.

If you’re going with organicish then 100% organic and OMRI labeled stuff can be useful, but it still doesn’t trump knowing what’s actually in the products.

Both methods in my opinion are better than synthetic. However the difference to me is sort of like the difference in buying organic fruit from a chain grocery or big box store versus buying fruit fresh from a farmer or fruit market. Organic is the farmers/fruit market, organicish is the big box store organic produce.

If organic seems a bit overwhelming then organicish is a great way to cut your teeth on your way to organic.

If it all seems like a bit much and you really prefer being able to precisely measure out exactly what your plant is getting and when, then organicish is the way, and is at least better than synthetic. This is all in my opinion obviously but I’ve seen and experienced the results of all 3 and there’s a clear winner in my mind.




Keep firing away with any and all questions. I don’t mind them at all, and if you need me to explain or expand on something let me know please

Do you have a plan for the soil on your Rev's seeds grow? Have you started building it yet?

 

[Savvage61]

wow thank you that was very informative, The only reason I want to use nutes is because that is what I know. But know I can already get that with just water makes me wanna throw all my nutes away. I want to do the true organic water only I just see one minor issue I just got the AC infinity SIPs the Biggest bags I can handle right now are 5.5 gallons My plan is to start in a solo cup up pot to a 1 gal pot then into a 5.5 that's going to leave me a little shy but from what I have read and seen the AC sip's seem to have part the root system in the reservoir at the end of the grow
will I be ok with the 5.5 bags at least for my first SS grow? Do you think this will be ok for now?

as far as nutes Im going to put them in the closet for a later day. I already have the Purple cow and the activator with the super charge from what I understand the purple cow Indicja is a freeze dried organic SS unlike other premixes I use only the PC and perlite as my medium . where other brands I checked out recommend 1 part super soil mix layer the bottom with 3 parts reg soil on top. what they do recommend is their CX1 and thier supercharger which I belive is more of a microbe tea is all they recommend one every 10-14 days and they make a point of telling you not to add anything else so other than My cal mag I'm putting Im putting the rest away


as you can tell I tend to ramble (old man thing I guess lol)
but to sum it up
can I get by with the 5.5 gallon pots? will the fabric pots air pruning will that help stop me from becoming rootbound ?
I have been using geo flora are you familar with it ? you most likely know about lol but it is a top dress organic nute so I can say I have been do the organish growing. everything thing I have heard and read said the exact same thing as you
true organic grows the best pot.

Im excited about doing this Im gonna go thru nute mixing withdraw but hey there are worse things Im sure once I start I will have questions, I greatly app0reciate your offer of advice i WILL TAKE YOU UP ON IT LOL
BTW I have a ton GF Veg and Bloom if I need to add anything toward the end Im guessing that would be perfect?

Thank you
Savvage

 

[Keffka]

Do you have a plan for the soil on your Rev's seeds grow? Have you started building it yet?

I’m thinking for Revs seeds that I’m gonna start my first separate specific batch. I plan on cloning his so I may as well get started with the strain/cultivar specific mixes. I’m gonna read back through his notes and see if the strain has any special tastes but I believe it was just a preference for calcium (like most of his strains). I’ll be going with 10 gallons each so I’m gonna have to pickup some more base mix. I’ll be reducing my perlite from 33% to 20% and adding coco in place of the reduction. So as of now the ratios are:

Base 30% EWC 30% perlite 20% coco 20%

I’m gonna amend in Fish bone, kelp, alfalfa, lobster and crab meal along with an all purpose. This will be my starting point so I can observe how the seeds grow and what they prefer then dial in the mix from there.

 

[Keffka]

Just saw John Wick for the first time. It’s the closest thing to a perfect action movie you can get imo.

 

[StoneOtter]

We haven't been combusting lately and I rolled a Dark Matter jay of The Revs. for a change. What a blast of pine that one has and a super happy stone!

 

[Gee64]

I’m thinking for Revs seeds that I’m gonna start my first separate specific batch. I plan on cloning his so I may as well get started with the strain/cultivar specific mixes. I’m gonna read back through his notes and see if the strain has any special tastes but I believe it was just a preference for calcium (like most of his strains). I’ll be going with 10 gallons each so I’m gonna have to pickup some more base mix. I’ll be reducing my perlite from 33% to 20% and adding coco in place of the reduction. So as of now the ratios are:

Base 30% EWC 30% perlite 20% coco 20%

I’m gonna amend in Fish bone, kelp, alfalfa, lobster and crab meal along with an all purpose. This will be my starting point so I can observe how the seeds grow and what they prefer then dial in the mix from there.

Nice. You will like 10gal pots. They rarely run out of anything if you mix the soil really really really well. Then mix it again.

10 gals hold a lot of food so you can save yourself a bit of grief in future grows if you plan to recycle, and go with an equal part carbon. Its what the microbes/fungii expect, but more than that, the food thats left is left equal to the carbon.

If they aren't balanced then every time you recycle that unbalance grows and by grow 3 or 4 the soil won't perform as well. Left over carbon keeps the microbes happy too during the recycling process. Its their main food.

They eat everything else because its mixed with the carbon. Its the carbon they want.

That balanced leftover is bioavailable as soon as you plant, and it gets you through until your new pot gets established.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you want to recycle your soil, it will grow better if some of next grow's carbon is in there this grow. Just like minerals.

Spring is coming too so this grow coming up will be extremely robust. Probably the best one of the year, and your microbe population will be huge. They will eat a lot of carbon. June is the month CO2 globally usually peaks. Its those pesky hungry microbes doing it. Partying and shit.

Carbon holds water too so your soil gets really solid when carbon is equal to ewc and used soil, and the plant likes that moisture balance. Balance is vital if you plan to recycle your soil.

20% will be fine if you don't recycle, but the pots will dry quickly when the plants get big.

If you can get your hands on greensand, its a fantastic amendment too. Its one of my "I won't make soil without it" ingredients that fortifies the mix in many ways, and it lasts all grow and recycles beautifully. Its my 1st ammendment added. If I don't have enough I get more.

Greensand and dolomite, the 2 most important amendments. They alleviate a lot of deficiencies and bring a lot of stability.

You can very successfully grow clones in 6 or 7 gals too if you have some smaller pots you want to use. With clones, as soon as the roots are close to being ready for flower you can flip them, as the rootball accelerates in stretch too and the pot fills in, so they aren't in the final pot too long.

The Rev's system and seeds are both really good, but what he tries not to say too often, is in his small pot grows he uses clones. He does mention seeds are for in the ground, clones are for pots, but he certainly doesn't accentuate it.

A 10gal will easily grow a seed tho, with extra time if needed to harvest some weed meal.

It will be fun to watch your next grow, Rev's seeds are Wildlings, the pheno's are very diverse. Lots of colors, smells, and structures. You are going to love his seeds.

 

[Gee64]

We haven't been combusting lately and I rolled a Dark Matter jay of The Revs. for a change. What a blast of pine that one has and a super happy stone!

Rev's weed is such a treat. For anyone over 55, its like childhood all over again

 

[StoneOtter]

Rev's weed is such a treat. For anyone over 55, its like childhood all over again

There really is something about it! Man that Red Sky! So full of powerful indica cherry in your face flavor!

 

[Keffka]

When a plant is in flower it still has vegetative growth, and plenty of it. There’s a sort of implication that when flower begins, N is no longer important, and that’s not true. It’s especially untrue if we’re using a soil food web since the micros use N so heavily.

You can see the new veg growth in these images quite clearly

I top dressed 2 days ago with 2 tbsp fish bone meal (5-13-0) 1 tbsp Stonington plant food (5-2-4) and 1 tbsp all purpose (4-4-4). While the numbers themselves are largely irrelevant, I’m illustrating that N is still very much important and needed. Vegetative growth will continue until the last 2-4 weeks depending on the length of flower.

I also hit them with a aerated compost tea made of 1/2 cup EWC 1/2 cup compost, tbsp blackstrap molasses, tsp of Dolomite lime, tbsp of Stonington plant food, tbsp of fish bone meal, tsp of Hydrolyzed fish. I don’t use a bag, I just put it all in a jug and aerate it at 74F for 18-24 hours.

We’ve already got some leaning going on on the taller plant. It’s not an issue yet so I’ll leave it but they’re gonna need to be supported at this rate. The smaller plant seems like it will be strong enough to not need support

Here’s the lean

 

[Gee64]

How is the supercrop scar healing?

 

[Keffka]

How is the supercrop scar healing?

The one I cracked healed within a week. The other one started knuckling within a day or two. I’m not sure if they’ll all heal at that rate or if it was because they were done on the main stem, near the apex, and during stretch. Too many variables to be able to tell but I am contemplating super cropping from here on out. We’ll see though.. With moving up to larger containers I’ll be able to top without gassing out before flower finishes.. I want to see how these plants yield before I make any training decisions.

 

[Azimuth]

They rarely run out of anything if you mix the soil really really really well. Then mix it again.

Why the need to mix well and then mix again? Presumably the microbes are found throughout the mix and the fungi extend the roots' reach. I understand we wouldn't want entire pockets of unmixed inputs, but a reasonably mixed batch is not sufficient??

 

[Keffka]

Nice. You will like 10gal pots. They rarely run out of anything if you mix the soil really really really well. Then mix it again.

10 gals hold a lot of food so you can save yourself a bit of grief in future grows if you plan to recycle, and go with an equal part carbon. Its what the microbes/fungii expect, but more than that, the food thats left is left equal to the carbon.

If they aren't balanced then every time you recycle that unbalance grows and by grow 3 or 4 the soil won't perform as well. Left over carbon keeps the microbes happy too during the recycling process. Its their main food.

They eat everything else because its mixed with the carbon. Its the carbon they want.

That balanced leftover is bioavailable as soon as you plant, and it gets you through until your new pot gets established.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you want to recycle your soil, it will grow better if some of next grow's carbon is in there this grow. Just like minerals.

Spring is coming too so this grow coming up will be extremely robust. Probably the best one of the year, and your microbe population will be huge. They will eat a lot of carbon. June is the month CO2 globally usually peaks. Its those pesky hungry microbes doing it. Partying and shit.

Carbon holds water too so your soil gets really solid when carbon is equal to ewc and used soil, and the plant likes that moisture balance. Balance is vital if you plan to recycle your soil.

20% will be fine if you don't recycle, but the pots will dry quickly when the plants get big.

If you can get your hands on greensand, its a fantastic amendment too. Its one of my "I won't make soil without it" ingredients that fortifies the mix in many ways, and it lasts all grow and recycles beautifully. Its my 1st ammendment added. If I don't have enough I get more.

Greensand and dolomite, the 2 most important amendments. They alleviate a lot of deficiencies and bring a lot of stability.

You can very successfully grow clones in 6 or 7 gals too if you have some smaller pots you want to use. With clones, as soon as the roots are close to being ready for flower you can flip them, as the rootball accelerates in stretch too and the pot fills in, so they aren't in the final pot too long.

The Rev's system and seeds are both really good, but what he tries not to say too often, is in his small pot grows he uses clones. He does mention seeds are for in the ground, clones are for pots, but he certainly doesn't accentuate it.

A 10gal will easily grow a seed tho, with extra time if needed to harvest some weed meal.

It will be fun to watch your next grow, Rev's seeds are Wildlings, the pheno's are very diverse. Lots of colors, smells, and structures. You are going to love his seeds.

EWC contains carbon itself. Calcium carbonate to be exact. The base mix will contain coco out of the bag, then the addition of 20%. That’s gonna make mathing it near impossible.

What about dropping perlite from my ratios, building out the mix at 33-33-33, base, EWC, coco, then adding perlite at 20% of that total? I plan on recycling and would rather liftoff correctly than spend time troubleshooting fixes right when I should be landing in the sweet spot.

 

[Keffka]

Why the need to mix well and then mix again? Presumably the microbes are found throughout the mix and the fungi extend the roots' reach. I understand we wouldn't want entire pockets of unmixed inputs, but a reasonably mixed batch is not sufficient??

In terms of physically mixing, one of the big issues I’ve come across is sticking and settling. EWC really likes to grab on to itself if it’s not completely dry, and it’s really difficult to get it completely dry without laying it spread out.

Perlite also has a habit of floating to the top of the mix, especially when you are using vibrations/movement to mix it.

Adding in amendments brings another layer of complexity since they’re relatively small amounts in comparison to the gallons we’re using. Don’t want to add something like greensand and have it all end up in one out of three pots.

These issues get compounded once we start reaching 20+ gallons and get worse and worse. It’s why I prefer summer and fall for mixing. I lay it out on a tarp on my driveway and mix it all with a shovel and pitchfork.

 

[Gee64]

Why the need to mix well and then mix again? Presumably the microbes are found throughout the mix and the fungi extend the roots' reach. I understand we wouldn't want entire pockets of unmixed inputs, but a reasonably mixed batch is not sufficient??

You want every single piece of carbon to be touching both used soil and plant food. If you end up with pockets of less carbon density microbes will leave plant food behind and if you have a pocket of greater carbon density, too much carbon gets eaten and in the end, plant food gets left behind. It might sound silly now but in a 2 gallon grow leaving 10% behind will kill you. In big pots it leads to unbalanced used soil. Try side-by-sides. Mix one small pot half-assed and mix the daylights out of the other one. Then see which one starves 1st. A cement mixer works really well

EWC contains carbon itself. Calcium carbonate to be exact. The base mix will contain coco out of the bag, then the addition of 20%. That’s gonna make mathing it near impossible.

What about dropping perlite from my ratios, building out the mix at 33-33-33, base, EWC, coco, then adding perlite at 20% of that total? I plan on recycling and would rather liftoff correctly than spend time troubleshooting fixes right when I should be landing in the sweet spot.

equal parts of ewc, coco, and used soil is perfect, then add however much perlite you want.

 

[Gee64]

Ignore the perlite, thats just the ratio that works for his pots. You can use any amount of perlite you prefer. Its the other 3 that count. This is common in many recipes.