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- #641
Damn my KOS seeds got here a day early.. I also got my monthly VA letter.. I don’t know why I found it so humorous they both came together but I did 
Keffkas Coast Of Maine Line, TLO/LOS Style, Bagseed, Indoor Grow
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- #642
That was my exact thinking.. well actually it was “I just got the Mag fixed I should wait a few days until it settles in then flip the light”
Next grow I’m gonna have to solve for mag out of the gate so I can flip my light earlier
you can supplement no problem. LOS type amendments may take too long to become available to the plant. there has to be an organic solve you can use. sorry i'm not much help.
edit : it's because you have a monster light. which is a good thing.
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- #644
I’ve got organic non chelated calmag I’m using currently but it’s just a band aid. I’m currently working out how to get my living water going which is RO water with prilled dolomite lime and cut with a little aquarium water.. that will take me a little time to dial in but will be my permanent fix.
My issue comes from like you said, the monster light, combined with low to no nutrient seedling phase. I can’t afford to wait for the phase to complete then wait another 14 days after transplant for the plant to get the resources and use them. I don’t think Mag will suppress myco growth like N and P so I’m thinking just making sure the seedling soil has a mag charge going forward, that way the living water is just icing on the cake instead of a requirement.
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- #645
Or I could just foliar spray during seedling phase but that ties me to the grow in a way I don’t like
you can use a bottle calmag without screwing up the organics. you don't need the calcium though, but i don't think it'll interfere.
So sorry I missed this on Tuesday.@Bill284 method. Maybe he’ll see the tag and add to the convo a little bit. Frass, and bokashi are similar to EWC. Nutrients that have been bound up in organic matter. The difference is usually in how the nutrients get bound. When you buy these items in the store they have some decent amounts of what we’re looking for but they’ll never match something like @Gee64
EWC because he intentionally feeds all of the nutrients we’d need to his worms for them to bind it up into EWC. Meaning he really only needs that EWC plus some stuff to keep the structure.
I know Bill also layers his mixes, however I know he also likes coco. If he’s layering with coco over soil then this would require additional nutrients since coco really only breaks down to K mainly, so you would need an extra boost in there. If it’s just coco you’re gonna need a little more than if it was soil.
If he’s not putting bands of nutrients in the pot then he would need to provide the oomph himself likely in his watering. Even if he was using soil over coco there would still be a need to add nutrients somewhere in the pot for the micro life to break down and deliver to the plant. However if you’re using soil you’d need less than if you were using coco.
For example, I use soil and store bought EWC, however, on the very bottom of my pot I put in a bunch of different meals like blood, kelp, alfalfa, crab, etc. plus an all purpose 4-4-4. Then I add my aerated compost layer then a soil layer. This gives the microlife access to the matter for consumption which will result in the specific nutrients we want being delivered to the plant. That’s an entire process that involves movement, consumption, death, etc.
I also put the same stuff on the top of my pot just below my mulch. So I’m adding nutrients in as well, they’re just added in specific spots meant to be slowly broken down instead of watered in. I didn’t provide a good source of slow burning calmag so now I’m forced to provide it myself during watering with dolomite lime or the calmag I have.
The living soils need to have access to resources that will provide the nutrients when being broken down by the microlife. Depending on what your setup is, this may mean putting dry nutrients in specific places in the pot, or using water soluble nutrients and watering them in each time.
I would need Bill to clarify his setup before I could make definitive statements about what he’s doing.
From my memory I thought Bill was essentially supercharging a coco grow by basically creating a high quality soil in layers with the frass and bokashi. If you mixed up frass, bokashi, and coco, you’d have a very strong base for a high quality potting soil.
Does that make sense or did I make it even more convoluted
My method works in soil or coco.
I don't mix media.
Bokashi, Frass & Dynomyco feedvmy roots for me.
I add a little Geoflora into it aswell.
Generally I feed every day.
Soil sometimes I'll run some plain water.
But in flower I fed soil and coco every day ( 110 litres ) .
Even soil can be fed daily with this method.
It's all about the root zone and microbial & fungal life.
Apologies again for being so late.
Have a great day.
#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284
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- #648
So sorry I missed this on Tuesday.
My method works in soil or coco.
I don't mix media.
Bokashi, Frass & Dynomyco feedvmy roots for me.
I add a little Geoflora into it aswell.
Generally I feed every day.
Soil sometimes I'll run some plain water.
But in flower I fed soil and coco every day ( 110 litres ) .
Even soil can be fed daily with this method.
It's all about the root zone and microbial & fungal life.
Apologies again for being so late.
Have a great day.
#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284
No worries Bill,
Thank you for responding.. I get hundreds of notifications a day I can only imagine how many you get
.So yeah @CaptainLucky he does almost exactly what I figured. He establishes the microlife then feeds it slowly every day. It’s a slight variation on what I’ve done where there are little pockets of nutrients throughout the pot for the microlife to access. If I didn’t put those layers of dry nutrients in the pot then I would have to get them in somewhere else such as in the watering. You could do this same thing in soil as long as the soil is highly aerated. You have to do it with coco because if coco dries out you run into a lot of problems very fast.
This comes down to style and preference. I know there are going to be times where I will have to spend some time away from my plants. I can’t risk coco drying out while I’m gone or it could fry my plants. I have younger kids still so there can be days/times where I won’t be able to get to my plants and coco does not like this, and neither does the micro life if it depends on you to deliver the nutrients daily.
This changes after stretch in flower. When flower happens I typically need to be within a day or two of my plants at all times because once stretch finishes, I make sure the soil is constantly full of water. She will drain the water from your medium rapidly (within a day or 2) after stretch and flower is not the time to deny her water (unless you’re droughting but that’s a different topic)
However if you’d like to combine using microbes and fungus with the regiment of coco it’s a great method that likely yields high quality results. A lot of growers like the meticulous and daily nature of coco, but want the benefits of microbes and fungus, and Bills method is a good way to strike a balance between them.
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- #649
As far as mixing media goes.. mixing soil into coco isn’t a great idea since it detracts from what coco does best if it’s your base, however mixing coco into soil is a decent idea if you’re gonna run a supersoil or TLO/LOS. Coco is great organic matter that provides food for microbes and breaks down (pretty rapidly) to K which is super useful especially in warmer dryer environments. Potassium plays a huge role in transpiration and is responsible for the opening and closing of stomata. Pretty serious stuff. (This is why dryer environments often see a K flag [purple striping on your stem] and an increased need for potassium) Don’t use it for aeration in a LOS since it breaks down very quickly and can lead to compaction, just make sure to account for it as organic matter instead of aeration.
Most super soil or LOS mixes will have a part of coco in their recipes. It’s wonderful stuff really, which is interesting because when I was first starting out there was this whole “coco vs soil” debate I kept reading about when in reality they compliment each other really well without any need for debate.
That’s just a bit of information with no purpose other than to inform
Most super soil or LOS mixes will have a part of coco in their recipes. It’s wonderful stuff really, which is interesting because when I was first starting out there was this whole “coco vs soil” debate I kept reading about when in reality they compliment each other really well without any need for debate.
That’s just a bit of information with no purpose other than to inform
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- #650
I’ll also add that if you’re feeding nutrients to your micro life through waterings, make sure they’re not chelated or full of acids if you’re trying to maintain a microbe friendly environment. These acids and chelates bypass your microbes and fungus, making them unnecessary while also risking dehydrating them as the medium dries.
You can get almost every nutrient in a water soluble form without chelating or using acids. If you want to use chelates and acids you’re just defeating the whole process of establishing the micro life itself.
Now if you’re just feeding the plants directly then go hog wild with the chelates and acids, I suggest them in fact. Chelation happens naturally with microlife. If you’re missing this process you’re missing out on efficiency.
You can get almost every nutrient in a water soluble form without chelating or using acids. If you want to use chelates and acids you’re just defeating the whole process of establishing the micro life itself.
Now if you’re just feeding the plants directly then go hog wild with the chelates and acids, I suggest them in fact. Chelation happens naturally with microlife. If you’re missing this process you’re missing out on efficiency.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Coco is my favorite carbon additive when building a soil. I add it to my worm farm trays and then again when I mix my pots.
The microbes love it as they need alot of carbon and they exhale it as CO2 which gets pushed up to the soil surface where it sits just above the ground. Stomata suck it in.
It comes from a plant, goes into the soil and through a microbe and back into a plant. Circle of life. Carbon cycle.
Earth needs more plants.
Just make sure it has been well rinsed to remove the salt water from the manufacturing process.
Most healthy plants are about 47% carbon on a dry matter analysis. Coco and microbes can supply a lot of that.
The microbes love it as they need alot of carbon and they exhale it as CO2 which gets pushed up to the soil surface where it sits just above the ground. Stomata suck it in.
It comes from a plant, goes into the soil and through a microbe and back into a plant. Circle of life. Carbon cycle.
Earth needs more plants.
Just make sure it has been well rinsed to remove the salt water from the manufacturing process.
Most healthy plants are about 47% carbon on a dry matter analysis. Coco and microbes can supply a lot of that.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Dolomite lime and greensand are 2 excellent soil additions for magnesium.
Greensand is stellar for almost everything, plus its a huge source of potassium.
Its a Special K
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I feel a nitrogen deficiency starting...time for a coffee feeding
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- #654
Dolomite lime and greensand are 2 excellent soil additions for magnesium.
Greensand is stellar for almost everything, plus its a huge source of potassium.
Its a Special K
Mag won’t suppress the myco signal from the plant correct? As far as I’ve read it seems only the macros will suppress growth
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Correct. Any nutrient that is an organic ammendment won't suppress myco.
Myco's purpose is to manage the mineral mines and supply chain.
Any soil addition that needs to be processed by a microbe to become organically chelated onto a clay or humic colloid is myco's friend.
Myco gets paid with sugar from the plant to oversee the processing of the nutrients that will load the serving platters (colloids).
If you don't pay myco, or you use a system that has pre-loaded serving platters, (synthetic colloids... aka chelators) myco will go dormant (spore out and die) and wait for future employment.
Myco's purpose is to manage the mineral mines and supply chain.
Any soil addition that needs to be processed by a microbe to become organically chelated onto a clay or humic colloid is myco's friend.
Myco gets paid with sugar from the plant to oversee the processing of the nutrients that will load the serving platters (colloids).
If you don't pay myco, or you use a system that has pre-loaded serving platters, (synthetic colloids... aka chelators) myco will go dormant (spore out and die) and wait for future employment.
I’m not gonna be using any coco just straight FFHF +FFOF layered with Bill’s method. CLAs far as mixing media goes.. mixing soil into coco isn’t a great idea since it detracts from what coco does best if it’s your base, however mixing coco into soil is a decent idea if you’re gonna run a supersoil or TLO/LOS. Coco is great organic matter that provides food for microbes and breaks down (pretty rapidly) to K which is super useful especially in warmer dryer environments. Potassium plays a huge role in transpiration and is responsible for the opening and closing of stomata. Pretty serious stuff. (This is why dryer environments often see a K flag [purple striping on your stem] and an increased need for potassium) Don’t use it for aeration in a LOS since it breaks down very quickly and can lead to compaction, just make sure to account for it as organic matter instead of aeration.
Most super soil or LOS mixes will have a part of coco in their recipes. It’s wonderful stuff really, which is interesting because when I was first starting out there was this whole “coco vs soil” debate I kept reading about when in reality they compliment each other really well without any need for debate.
That’s just a bit of information with no purpose other than to inform
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I have never used FF soils but I think they have tree matter in them for a carbon source, which is excellent slow release carbon, if I recall from looking at it online.I’m not gonna be using any coco just straight FFHF +FFOF layered with Bill’s method. CL
Carbon that dense can hold a lot of water, not saying that will be a problem, but keep your eye on it.
I grew up in the forests of British Columbia. Old growth soil powered a lot of guerrilla grows, its powerful stuff
Gee64
Well-Known Member
On the topic of Fox Farms, if you have ever tried to grow orchids and haven't had much luck heres a great solution.
Mix 1 teaspoon of FoxFarm Bigbloom into a litre of RO water, and pour about a quarter of it slowly thru the orchid potting media once a month.
2 weeks later when the media is dry cut a black tea teabag open and pour half of that across the surface of the pot.
Then spray the surface every day with RO water.
The tea supplies the nitrogen and the FFBB is all the rest.
Your orchids will be amazing in no time.
Repeat perpetually.
Mix 1 teaspoon of FoxFarm Bigbloom into a litre of RO water, and pour about a quarter of it slowly thru the orchid potting media once a month.
2 weeks later when the media is dry cut a black tea teabag open and pour half of that across the surface of the pot.
Then spray the surface every day with RO water.
The tea supplies the nitrogen and the FFBB is all the rest.
Your orchids will be amazing in no time.
Repeat perpetually.
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- #659
I’m not gonna be using any coco just straight FFHF +FFOF layered with Bill’s method. CL
Toss in about 10-15% extra perlite into your soil mix itself, even if it comes with perlite in it (I went with 33% in my mix because I also threw in 1:1 EWC and Soil). This will be like throwing lighter fluid down before lighting the coals. It’ll drive increased root growth and microbial action.
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- #660
Day 30 Update.
So the oldest plant has reached Day 30. This means we’re at 28-30 currently. Here’s the gang:
Everyone is real happy but there are a few things of note. We’ve covered the magnesium and have that issue bandaged while the true fix comes online. They’ve reached their resources which have Mag so we’ll watch them while the water is dialed in.
We have 2 plants showing their first signs of overwatering. They’ve got a lot of perlite so I find this interesting and will take a look at the roots at transplant.
You can see the leaves look slightly swollen and weighted down. They look heavy. The new growth also has a waxy swollen look as well. They’ve still got decent color and otherwise look ok, catching it now it becomes a very simple fix with very little impact on the overall grow. We just wait a few days.
These next plants are nice and healthy currently. One of them has been my star performer and the other one recently found its resource pile and bounced back quickly. I’ll have to look at my notes as I layered a few of the pots in different ways, but I strongly suspect the performer had an additional layer of all purpose.
These next plants are the ones we kept in the solo cups for extra time. You can see the large difference in sizes. These also took a hit when I turned the light up but have since recovered nicely.
This is the oldest plant and the one transplanted first. It was successfully LSTd with @InTheShed method of breaking apical dominance. I’ve linked that journal a few pages back or you can just check his signature for it.
She’s been a strong performer herself this entire time. Naturally bushy, took the entire grow really well. Nice coloring, strong growth, tight internode space. I’ve got a good feeling about this one especially. It should be fun.
So the oldest plant has reached Day 30. This means we’re at 28-30 currently. Here’s the gang:
Everyone is real happy but there are a few things of note. We’ve covered the magnesium and have that issue bandaged while the true fix comes online. They’ve reached their resources which have Mag so we’ll watch them while the water is dialed in.
We have 2 plants showing their first signs of overwatering. They’ve got a lot of perlite so I find this interesting and will take a look at the roots at transplant.
You can see the leaves look slightly swollen and weighted down. They look heavy. The new growth also has a waxy swollen look as well. They’ve still got decent color and otherwise look ok, catching it now it becomes a very simple fix with very little impact on the overall grow. We just wait a few days.
These next plants are nice and healthy currently. One of them has been my star performer and the other one recently found its resource pile and bounced back quickly. I’ll have to look at my notes as I layered a few of the pots in different ways, but I strongly suspect the performer had an additional layer of all purpose.
These next plants are the ones we kept in the solo cups for extra time. You can see the large difference in sizes. These also took a hit when I turned the light up but have since recovered nicely.
This is the oldest plant and the one transplanted first. It was successfully LSTd with @InTheShed method of breaking apical dominance. I’ve linked that journal a few pages back or you can just check his signature for it.
She’s been a strong performer herself this entire time. Naturally bushy, took the entire grow really well. Nice coloring, strong growth, tight internode space. I’ve got a good feeling about this one especially. It should be fun.