Keffkas Coast Of Maine Line, TLO/LOS Style, Bagseed, Indoor Grow

[CaptainLucky]

Lactobacillus is in large concentrations in steer and horse manure both of which are considered excellent for cannabis’ purposes.

If you have a good myco colony in your soil P is easily broken down and delivered to the plant. Myco is the best organism at breaking P bonds. In soil you can’t put enough P globally in the mix without inhibiting myco growth, immobilizing the vast majority of it, and making life rough for the plant so instead I put it in layers/bands on the bottom and top of the container. This lets the myco spawn heavily in the container while still leaving large supplies of it for the plant to access when it’s ready.

Hey Brother there’s something I don’t understand. I don’t know if your familiar with Bill284s method? It uses Frass , Bokashi and Myco that I assume if for making a living soil. Yes? Then would adding nutes not defeat the purpose? Or maybe I’m not understanding what your saying? Thanks. CL

 

[StoneOtter]

Does anyone in this thread add lactobacillus to their soil?

Hi Peat, I do.

 

[CaptainLucky]

The reason I’m asking is because he has great results and I’m going to try to replicate the same results. Idk? CL

 

[Keffka]

Hey Brother there’s something I don’t understand. I don’t know if your familiar with Bill284s method? It uses Frass , Bokashi and Myco that I assume if for making a living soil. Yes? Then would adding nutes not defeat the purpose? Or maybe I’m not understanding what your saying? Thanks. CL

@Bill284 method. Maybe he’ll see the tag and add to the convo a little bit. Frass, and bokashi are similar to EWC. Nutrients that have been bound up in organic matter. The difference is usually in how the nutrients get bound. When you buy these items in the store they have some decent amounts of what we’re looking for but they’ll never match something like @Gee64
EWC because he intentionally feeds all of the nutrients we’d need to his worms for them to bind it up into EWC. Meaning he really only needs that EWC plus some stuff to keep the structure.

I know Bill also layers his mixes, however I know he also likes coco. If he’s layering with coco over soil then this would require additional nutrients since coco really only breaks down to K mainly, so you would need an extra boost in there. If it’s just coco you’re gonna need a little more than if it was soil.

If he’s not putting bands of nutrients in the pot then he would need to provide the oomph himself likely in his watering. Even if he was using soil over coco there would still be a need to add nutrients somewhere in the pot for the micro life to break down and deliver to the plant. However if you’re using soil you’d need less than if you were using coco.

For example, I use soil and store bought EWC, however, on the very bottom of my pot I put in a bunch of different meals like blood, kelp, alfalfa, crab, etc. plus an all purpose 4-4-4. Then I add my aerated compost layer then a soil layer. This gives the microlife access to the matter for consumption which will result in the specific nutrients we want being delivered to the plant. That’s an entire process that involves movement, consumption, death, etc.

I also put the same stuff on the top of my pot just below my mulch. So I’m adding nutrients in as well, they’re just added in specific spots meant to be slowly broken down instead of watered in. I didn’t provide a good source of slow burning calmag so now I’m forced to provide it myself during watering with dolomite lime or the calmag I have.

The living soils need to have access to resources that will provide the nutrients when being broken down by the microlife. Depending on what your setup is, this may mean putting dry nutrients in specific places in the pot, or using water soluble nutrients and watering them in each time.
I would need Bill to clarify his setup before I could make definitive statements about what he’s doing.

From my memory I thought Bill was essentially supercharging a coco grow by basically creating a high quality soil in layers with the frass and bokashi. If you mixed up frass, bokashi, and coco, you’d have a very strong base for a high quality potting soil.

Does that make sense or did I make it even more convoluted ?

 

[Keffka]

What's a good fungal food to feed the myco? Will potato do it?

I’m currently working my way through different feeds in my setup but the grains are a good place to start.. Fungus loves grains like the malted barley.. It also loves Hydrolyzed fish.. I’m not certain which is best for it but I know that I use oats when I want to push a fungus heavy tea and Hydrolyzed fish when I want it to establish in my pot

 

[CaptainLucky]

@Bill284 method. Maybe he’ll see the tag and add to the convo a little bit. Frass, and bokashi are similar to EWC. Nutrients that have been bound up in organic matter. The difference is usually in how the nutrients get bound. When you buy these items in the store they have some decent amounts of what we’re looking for but they’ll never match something like @Gee64
EWC because he intentionally feeds all of the nutrients we’d need to his worms for them to bind it up into EWC. Meaning he really only needs that EWC plus some stuff to keep the structure.

I know Bill also layers his mixes, however I know he also likes coco. If he’s layering with coco over soil then this would require additional nutrients since coco really only breaks down to K mainly, so you would need an extra boost in there. If it’s just coco you’re gonna need a little more than if it was soil.

If he’s not putting bands of nutrients in the pot then he would need to provide the oomph himself likely in his watering. Even if he was using soil over coco there would still be a need to add nutrients somewhere in the pot for the micro life to break down and deliver to the plant. However if you’re using soil you’d need less than if you were using coco.

For example, I use soil and store bought EWC, however, on the very bottom of my pot I put in a bunch of different meals like blood, kelp, alfalfa, crab, etc. plus an all purpose 4-4-4. Then I add my aerated compost layer then a soil layer. This gives the microlife access to the matter for consumption which will result in the specific nutrients we want being delivered to the plant. That’s an entire process that involves movement, consumption, death, etc.

I also put the same stuff on the top of my pot just below my mulch. So I’m adding nutrients in as well, they’re just added in specific spots meant to be slowly broken down instead of watered in. I didn’t provide a good source of slow burning calmag so now I’m forced to provide it myself during watering with dolomite lime or the calmag I have.

The living soils need to have access to resources that will provide the nutrients when being broken down by the microlife. Depending on what your setup is, this may mean putting dry nutrients in specific places in the pot, or using water soluble nutrients and watering them in each time.
I would need Bill to clarify his setup before I could make definitive statements about what he’s doing.

From my memory I thought Bill was essentially supercharging a coco grow by basically creating a high quality soil in layers with the frass and bokashi. If you mixed up frass, bokashi, and coco, you’d have a very strong base for a high quality potting soil.

Does that make sense or did I make it even more convoluted ?

I think I have a better picture now, thanks. CL

 

[Keffka]

@CaptainLucky the process works like this. The micro life spawns in your pot. You want to give the micro life specific kinds of organic matter for it to consume. When it consumes this organic matter the nutrients get locked inside of its body. Some of the nutrients get passed to the plant and the rest stay inside the microbe. When the microbe dies these nutrients become available to the plant. The fungus in the pot can grab up nutrients as well and deliver them straight to the plant without dying which is why we love fungus so much. The fungus can also act like a conductor, telling the microbes where to go, what to do, and where to die.

All of this requires us to put organic matter in for this microlife to consume. That’s where the frass, EWC, bokashi, etc. come into play. The micro life consumes that organic matter and gives the nutrients left over to the plant. This is also why we choose specific kinds of nutrients, so the microlife is breaking down and delivering the nutrients we want.

Does this make a little more sense?

 

[CaptainLucky]

@CaptainLucky the process works like this. The micro life spawns in your pot. You want to give the micro life specific kinds of organic matter for it to consume. When it consumes this organic matter the nutrients get locked inside of its body. Some of the nutrients get passed to the plant and the rest stay inside the microbe. When the microbe dies these nutrients become available to the plant. The fungus in the pot can grab up nutrients as well and deliver them straight to the plant without dying which is why we love fungus so much. The fungus can also act like a conductor, telling the microbes where to go, what to do, and where to die.

All of this requires us to put organic matter in for this microlife to consume. That’s where the frass, EWC, bokashi, etc. come into play. The micro life consumes that organic matter and gives the nutrients left over to the plant. This is also why we choose specific kinds of nutrients, so the microlife is breaking down and delivering the nutrients we want.

Does this make a little more sense?

Yes Sir I think I got it now, thanks. You want to feed the fungus and then it’s feeding the plants. Yes? CL

 

[Peat Phreak]

Hi Peat, I do.

Okay great. A few questions. What is the source of lacto? How do you apply it? How much?

 

[Gee64]

Basmati rice works. I use fish fertilizer.

I’m currently working my way through different feeds in my setup but the grains are a good place to start.. Fungus loves grains like the malted barley.. It also loves Hydrolyzed fish.. I’m not certain which is best for it but I know that I use oats when I want to push a fungus heavy tea and Hydrolyzed fish when I want it to establish in my pot

It also loves basmati rice. I always toss a couple cups into a 20 gallon mix. Sometimes you even get rice sprouting which is kind of cool.

I like fish ferts the best. I'm a west coast Old Growth Forest kid and science has proved that giant trees that get a single salmon carcass left at its base, as bears do all the time, pulling them from the river and only eating the eggs, has significant boosting in the thickness of that years growth ring.

Fish has all the ingredients myco loves and if I remember correctly, about 40 different amino acids.

When added from the top it falls directly into the nitrogen cycle as well.

 

[Gee64]

Yes Sir I think I got it now, thanks. You want to feed the fungus and then it’s feeding the plants. Yes? CL

You do, but also feed the microbes. Microbes eat anything and everything all in their quest for carbon.

Fungus is the management group/supply chain, between the creators and the users.

If a microbe poops food 1 inch from a root it will never be used until fungus moves it to the root. Fungus uses sugars (pure carbohydrates) from the plant to feed the microbes and collects the poop.

Put sugar on a phosphorous particle and the microbe eats it to get the carbon and fungii gets the phosphorous poop.

Its a bit more complex but you get the idea.

Bokashi is top notch food. Similar to EWC in its end game, just a very different process to get there.

I don't eat meat or dairy so vermicomposting works in my house.

If I had some bokashi I would topdress it right in with my worm castings.

I have never tried it but I hear it needs to be buried over to be at its best effectiveness.

 

[CaptainLucky]

You do, but also feed the microbes. Microbes eat anything and everything all in their quest for carbon.

Fungus is the management group/supply chain, between the creators and the users.

If a microbe poops food 1 inch from a root it will never be used until fungus moves it to the root. Fungus uses sugars (pure carbohydrates) from the plant to feed the microbes and collects the poop.

Put sugar on a phosphorous particle and the microbe eats it to get the carbon and fungii gets the phosphorous poop.

Its a bit more complex but you get the idea.

Bokashi is top notch food. Similar to EWC in its end game, just a very different process to get there.

I don't eat meat or dairy so vermicomposting works in my house.

If I had some bokashi I would topdress it right in with my worm castings.

I have never tried it but I hear it needs to be buried over to be at its best effectiveness.

Also needs moisture. CL

 

[StoneOtter]

Okay great. A few questions. What is the source of lacto? How do you apply it? How much?

I make it from any of the recipe's found here at 420mag. Takes a few weeks. I can hook you up if need.
Application for me. I try to give it to them at least once in every stage of growing, meaning pot size, so every pot up I give them a shot.
The dose is flexible. A few TBSP's in a gallon of water then watered to runoff.
I'll use it to wet my soil when it's cooking too so, that dose or even heavier, x 2, until the soil feels right.

 

[Azimuth]

I’m currently working my way through different feeds in my setup but the grains are a good place to start.. Fungus loves grains like the malted barley.. It also loves Hydrolyzed fish.. I’m not certain which is best for it but I know that I use oats when I want to push a fungus heavy tea and Hydrolyzed fish when I want it to establish in my pot

You do, but also feed the microbes. Microbes eat anything and everything all in their quest for carbon.

Fungus is the management group/supply chain, between the creators and the users.

If a microbe poops food 1 inch from a root it will never be used until fungus moves it to the root. Fungus uses sugars (pure carbohydrates) from the plant to feed the microbes and collects the poop.

Put sugar on a phosphorous particle and the microbe eats it to get the carbon and fungii gets the phosphorous poop.

Its a bit more complex but you get the idea.

Bokashi is top notch food. Similar to EWC in its end game, just a very different process to get there.

I don't eat meat or dairy so vermicomposting works in my house.

If I had some bokashi I would topdress it right in with my worm castings.

I have never tried it but I hear it needs to be buried over to be at its best effectiveness.

Thanks, guys.

The reason I ask is that I'm making some JMS (Jadam Microbial Solution) and I usually make it with my castings, water, sea salt and a food source like potato. But this time I want to try to cultivate the fungus so maybe I can use my FAA (Fish Amino Acid) in place of the potato.

 

[Gee64]

Personally I only cater to microbes and fungii individually but if you can come up with something for both I'm all in!

 

[Bode]

Can you dultivate fungus in an aerated compost tea! I would surmise a moist bed of medium laced with grain (anything beneficial that will mold). Happy Smokin'

 

[Peat Phreak]

I make it from any of the recipe's found here at 420mag. Takes a few weeks.

Sounds like you are growing your own lacto from rice or grain. The problem I see with that for my purpose is I would be getting a lot more than just lacto from a home made culture. I'd be getting a bunch of yeast and other bacteria that I don't need for growing in peat with salts.

Since I want to use lacto for acidification, I need to have a strain of lacto that works well in the environment of my tent. There are hundreds of strains of lacto. Most of them thrive in temperatures that are a lot hotter than a bucket of peat in a tent. 85F-105F is where most lacto thrives.

My bucket of peat is 65F-75F. A lot of lacto strains become dormant or produce very little at that range. That is why I'm going to use a pure source of Lactobacillus Plantarum. It works well at cooler temperatures.

 

[StoneOtter]

Sounds like you are growing your own lacto from rice or grain. The problem I see with that for my purpose is I would be getting a lot more than just lacto from a home made culture. I'd be getting a bunch of yeast and other bacteria that I don't need for growing in peat with salts.

Since I want to use lacto for acidification, I need to have a strain of lacto that works well in the environment of my tent. There are hundreds of strains of lacto. Most of them thrive in temperatures that are a lot hotter than a bucket of peat in a tent. 85F-105F is where most lacto thrives.

My bucket of peat is 65F-75F. A lot of lacto strains become dormant or produce very little at that range. That is why I'm going to use a pure source of Lactobacillus Plantarum. It works well at cooler temperatures.

Interesting Peat! Your deep down the hole man! That's a good one! I see amazon has a ton of it for people. Same use in horticulture you think?

 

[Peat Phreak]

Same use in horticulture you think?

That is my educated guess. I can't say for sure until I try it myself. My only concern is that it might work too well and I could end up with a media pH of 4 or something.

Dose rate matters a lot here and I'm not sure how much to use. In my case, it's better to start small because it doesn't matter if the lacto doesn't work well enough. But it does matter if it works too well.

I'm probably going to start with one capsule per plant. Maybe less. Each capsule will be started in some dry malt extract (DME) and water for three days. DME is basically what beer is before it's fermented. This will increase the cell count by a lot and it puts the lacto in an active state. Then dump the whole lacto starter into the media.

 

[StoneOtter]

That is my educated guess. I can't say for sure until I try it myself. My only concern is that it might work too well and I could end up with a media pH of 4 or something.

Dose rate matters a lot here and I'm not sure how much to use. In my case, it's better to start small because it doesn't matter if the lacto doesn't work well enough. But it does matter if it works too well.

I'm probably going to start with one capsule per plant. Maybe less. Each capsule will be started in some dry malt extract (DME) and water for three days. DME is basically what beer is before it's fermented. This will increase the cell count by a lot and it puts the lacto in an active state. Then dump the whole lacto starter into the media.

`That will be fun to watch!