Keffkas Coast Of Maine Line, TLO/LOS Style, Bagseed, Indoor Grow

[Keffka]

Fast photo update.. I’ll do a more detailed breakdown tomorrow evening since we’re approaching 30 days next week. Two of the plants have found their nitrogen sources. I’m gonna hold another day or two to see how the lime plants look.. I expect them to find their nitrogen by then.

Transplanted the solo cups.. the extra root growth wasn’t worth the time and size. 14 days will be my limit for solos


Everyone is super happy and stands tall all day.. they like it warm.. they’re getting ready for bed currently

 

[Gee64]

Ok, I hit them with a WCA foliar  and some down the pipe in to the reservoir.

Looks like im going to have to make a new batch. This one is a bit old and had started to crystallize. It can be made with eggshells, but also Oyster and clay shells as well.

Azi does it look to be helping?

 

[Peat Phreak]

There is a new kind of Organic CalMag. It's micro chelated.

CalMag OAC | Organic

Vendor claim - It's the most bioavailable CalMag in the gardening and hydroponic industry. One example of this is that when this CalMag is used in soil it is 10+ times more effective at uptake than nitrate calmags.

A foliar treatment can quickly fix leaf defects when there are nute uptake issues. One or two treatments can fix it. I use foliar treatments a couple times a week in early veg to prevent typical cal mag leaf defects that can pop up in the beginning. I get minor leaf defects in the beginning 50% of the time, if I don't use foliar.

 

[Keffka]

There is a new kind of Organic CalMag. It's micro chelated.

CalMag OAC | Organic

Vendor claim - It's the most bioavailable CalMag in the gardening and hydroponic industry. One example of this is that when this CalMag is used in soil it is 10+ times more effective at uptake than nitrate calmags.

A foliar treatment can quickly fix leaf defects when there are nute uptake issues. One or two treatments can fix it. I use foliar treatments a couple times a week in early veg to prevent typical cal mag leaf defects that can pop up in the beginning. I get minor leaf defects in the beginning 50% of the time, if I don't use foliar.

“Micro chelated” sounds like a marketing term.. I’ve not heard of that before, I’ll have to look and see what that’s supposed to mean.

 

[Keffka]

However, yes, foliar treatments will be getting incorporated as a standard in future grows since I like to keep nutrients low for the first 2-3 weeks

 

[Keffka]

Ok so this is one of those slick bottled products we need to watch out for when growing LOS style. Micro chelated doesn’t really have a meaning. What I’m assuming it means is the micronutrients are chelated, especially with the existence of iron in the product. The OAC stands for Organic Acid Chelate. So while this is awesome for organic bottle growers and those that like to use Organic acids like fulvic and Humic, it’s not for our style either.

Fulvic and Humic acids will make nutrients available to our plant at extremely high levels, throwing off the balance of our microbes.

Here’s another thing that really irked me check out their SDS:

Any product that says proprietary for its ingredients immediately makes me suspicious and is something I won’t use. There’s no way for me to tell what’s actually in that bottle except for what the manufacturer has told us. Here’s the SDS for the bush doctor organic calmag:

The ingredients are listed in full, which I like. It’s their amounts that are proprietary, which I am okay with. I’m not thrilled about it, but at least I know what’s in it. However that proprietary word is enough to make me uneasy no matter where it is, which is another reason why I have dolomite lime coming today for my calmag issues.

This could be a decent product for foliars but if you’re growing TLO/LOS I’d still avoid it. You don’t want it dripping into your soil after your foliar spray. One thing TLO/LOS growers can do for a mag issue this early is epsom salt. 1 tbsp per 1 gallon of water mixed up then sprayed on the plants in the evening. This will help identify and keep Mag issues down without having to resort to a bottled nutrient while you look for your fix.

 

[Keffka]

Thanks bro CL

Hey Cap here’s those images about the fish water

 

[CaptainLucky]

Hey Cap here’s those images about the fish water

Thanks brother for taking the time to find me the link + congratulations on your nomination I can’t think of a better candidate. Good Luck Bro! CL

 

[Keffka]

Thanks brother for taking the time to find me the link + congratulations on your nomination I can’t think of a better candidate. Good Luck Bro! CL

Even (especially) on the internet where there is no accountability I try my best to keep my word. It’s all we have, and it’s what we do when there are no consequences that really determines who we are. I told you I’d get it so I got it lol.. Took a little longer than I meant to but that’s life some times.

Thank you, and congratulations on yours as well! You’re always super positive which is awesome and is a great attitude to have no matter where you are.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Hey Cap here’s those images about the fish water

Looks like I’m going to be adding another book to my collection. I’m liking what I read so far. Very cool . CL

 

[Keffka]

Looks like I’m going to be adding another book to my collection. I’m liking what I read so far. Very cool . CL

The entire book is like that lol.. It’s a really good reference as well for all of the different amendments with nice breakdowns on the why of using them. He’s got a bunch of good recipes for teas, and nutrient blends, plus plenty of pictures, troubleshooting, even a little breakdown on how to make hash lol.

Jeez you’d think he paid me to market it

 

[Keffka]

Moved the original post that was here per advice.

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, I hit them with a WCA foliar  and some down the pipe in to the reservoir.

Looks like im going to have to make a new batch. This one is a bit old and had started to crystallize. It can be made with eggshells, but also Oyster and clam shells as well.

Fixed that earlier comment as virtually nobody uses clay shells for growing anything.

Azi does it look to be helping?

Can't really tell. In organics it's supposed to take a couple of weeks for any changes you make to take effect. Also, I purposely fed my Jadam nutes at a higher rate (2x the recommended rate) to see if I could get ahead of the P issue I had the last couple of grows.

Mission accomplished as I have now exchanged a P issue for an N issue. I did so because I wanted to be sure there was enough nutrients in the fertigation mix and I'm combining a couple that are very complimentary to each other (one high in some stuff but low in others and vice versa) so I'm not sure how to judge the input amount of each when mixing them together. Does each get the standard concentration, or does each only get half so when added together they equal the concentration level of one as a stand-alone input?

I have a TDS meter so maybe I'll break it out to see what my levels are, though I have no idea what levels I should be looking for or what is too little or too much.

 

[Gee64]

Fixed that earlier comment as virtually nobody uses clay shells for growing anything.


Can't really tell. In organics it's supposed to take a couple of weeks for any changes you make to take effect. Also, I purposely fed my Jadam nutes at a higher rate (2x the recommended rate) to see if I could get ahead of the P issue I had the last couple of grows.

Mission accomplished as I have now exchanged a P issue for an N issue. I did so because I wanted to be sure there was enough nutrients in the fertigation mix and I'm combining a couple that are very complimentary to each other (one high in some stuff but low in others and vice versa) so I'm not sure how to judge the input amount of each when mixing them together. Does each get the standard concentration, or does each only get half so when added together they equal the concentration level of one as a stand-alone input?

I have a TDS meter so maybe I'll break it out to see what my levels are, though I have no idea what levels I should be looking for or what is too little or too much.

Usually on a nitro def caused by a cal def you see results a lot sooner than 2 weeks. I usually notice a better color in the leaves in about 48 hours.

As for your mix question I have no idea but too little will do less harm than too much. I guess try it?

I am mentally stuck on the bottom watering possibly not being able to lift heavy things like calcium to the soil surface but I have never tried or seen it so I am in the dark.

I haven't had time to dig into your KNF stuff as its been 2 full weeks of family events. Does it feed the plants directly like a synthetic does or does it get processed through a microbe?

 

[Azimuth]

Usually on a nitro def caused by a cal def you see results a lot sooner than 2 weeks. I usually notice a better color in the leaves in about 48 hours.

Hard to say, but I'm leaning to 'not fixed.'

As for your mix question I have no idea but too little will do less harm than too much. I guess try it?

That's the next step. In addition to a stronger than recommended mix, I'm also fertigating them everyday rather than the once a week recommendation so I'm way overboard here.

Still, the plants looked great through about week two of flower and I'm getting more stretch than I've ever had and the leaves are praying to the lights, so it seems like I'm in the ballpark, or at least in the neighborhood, and just need to dial it in. I think. But who knows.

I am mentally stuck on the bottom watering possibly not being able to lift heavy things like calcium to the soil surface but I have never tried or seen it so I am in the dark.

I gave it to them three ways, foliar and through the reservoir two days ago, and a top watering last night. Maybe third time's the charm?

Does it feed the plants directly like a synthetic does or does it get processed through a microbe?

Don't really know. I assumed it would be like the bottled nutes since the microbes break the plant matter down as part of the fermentation process, releasing the nutrients into solution. But, when I fed it through my original SIP set-up with the soil suspended above the water level but hydroton clay balls, the plants showed deficiencies more quickly than they do now with soil all the way to the bottom.

So, it would seem the soil microbes are necessary to bring the nutrients to the plant, and therefore must be part of the normal organic process of microbes feeding the plant. ? But don't really know as the standard application of these nutes is thru top feeding.

So, I've got a bunch of unknowns I'm trying to work through, such as whether the Jadam nutes will be sufficient by themselves, and if they are, what is the appropriate concentration levels, and if I mix several together do each count towards that total on their own or is the combined profile what is important.

My grow method has changed quite a bit with the SIPs since I used to rely on my soil mix in smaller containers with mostly water only. The soil seems to power things pretty well for about 6 weeks and then runs out of gas, which wasn't as big of an issue when I repotted right before flip.

But now with the SIPs I'm vegging them in their final container so the last 3 weeks of veg and the first 3 weeks after flip now consume the 6 weeks of built-in nutes and that's when deficiencies start to occur. Plus, these plants are so much larger and more vigorous in the SIPs than they were in my old method.

The first round I did top dressings of worm castings but had P deficiencies since my castings weren't as robust as they will be shortly, so in the second round I tried a bunch of things like adding my Fruit and Flower Jadam mix. Hard to tell if that resolved the issue since once the leaves turn they don't come back, but the deficiencies did seem to at least slow and the buds seemed decent.

Now I'm in round three and added my Jadam nutes via the reservoir from about week 4 of a 6 week veg and then added some of the Fruit and Flower mix once I flipped. Growth on this plant has been the best so far and with much more stretch than I ever had before, with good color through week 2 of flower, but then the apparent N deficiency.

So, seems like progress as I'm not seeing the P deficiency (yet anyway), but I am getting an N deficiency. But that could very well be overnuting as I purposely fed at both a higher concentration and frequency than recommended to try to get ahead of it but in the process may have caused lockouts.

So it's one big science experiment without the usual controls one would normally have in place. .

But, I  do feel like I'm making progress, so there's that...

 

[Keffka]

Ok so I am now posting this a third time Originally I posted it in @Gee64 thread The Gee Spot. You can get there by clicking the arrow in my quote if you’d like. This is a nice little helpful way to get to sexing your plants quicker.. A couple folks will be giving it a shot themselves and I’ll be attempting it on my next grow:

Check out this fun little note I caught browsing Revs seed bank:

“Using a flowering photoperiod of 12/12 on sprouts for their first 10 days above ground, then switching them to an 18/6 photoperiod will allow you to easily sex them at 30 days of age—give or take 3 days”

What do you think of this? I’m wondering if it’s worth losing 60 hours of light

 

[Gee64]

Ok so I am now posting this a third time Originally I posted it in @Gee64 thread The Gee Spot. You can get there by clicking the arrow in my quote if you’d like. This is a nice little helpful way to get to sexing your plants quicker.. A couple folks will be giving it a shot themselves and I’ll be attempting it on my next grow:

Oddly enough I have heard this rumor a couple times before!

I will start the process later today in the Gee Spot test facility located at a top secret grow base space that may or may not exist...depending on which Man in Black you ask

 

[StoneOtter]

I am mentally stuck on the bottom watering possibly not being able to lift heavy things like calcium to the soil surface but I have never tried or seen it so I am in the dark.

That SIP of mine. I was concerned with the same, dry upper soil, so I stuck my finger in beside the fill tube and surprisingly it got moist an inch down it felt like. I don't know if that helps your thoughts, but I was relieved. Are you thinking of LOS? It's already there in the soil. No? Edit: I see. Jadam

 

[Gee64]

I was actually thinking just calcium in general, Jadam or CalMag.

I wonder if capillary action has enough strength to lift calcium particles all the way to the top of the gradient, or would calcium still be best applied from the top as its heavy and always goes down.

 

[Peat Phreak]

Any product that says proprietary for its ingredients immediately makes me suspicious and is something I won’t use.

The proprietary ingredients are plant extracts and an organic magnesium source. The reason companies have proprietary ingredients is to make it more difficult for another company to copy the formula.

Micro chelated is the same as regular chelated. Nano chelated is the other type. Chelated elements are easier for plants to uptake.

I don't know if the fulvic acid they use to chelate would cause problems for this type of growing. TPS can answer that for sure. There would be a very small amount of fulvic acid in the cal mag. Not enough to cause a problem, IMO. The ph of soil usually doesn't get low enough for fulvic acid to be effective.

I'll bet this organic cal mag is fine for any type of soil. Could be wrong cuz I don't do soil. I'm going to try a bottle for use with peat and salts and foliar. I'm sold on the better uptake rate. I like how it doesn't have nitrogen. Just cal mag.