Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

Now We’re Talking!!!!
Garden Reset

I snapped these pictures as soon as I was done. The clone hasn’t had any time to adjust whatsoever. I’m showing this now so we can compare to a 48 hours from now picture. By game time Sunday this is going to look like a scrog without the net. It will be amazing. I don’t need a scrog screen to beat a scrog. Check out the relative height to the other two now. This I can work with and create a uniform canopy across three plants so that all flip at the same level. Whatever about the 1/2 gallons, I couldn’t care less about them. (Sorta I do actually, lol). These girls here are the grow and the show.

Here you go. Pre-adjustment by the clone pics.

As you check it out, do you see how I just turned a messy scrog that was weeks away from a sub par finish into a plant that I could flip tomorrow if I wanted? Heh.

 

[KeithLemon]

Now We’re Talking!!!!
Garden Reset

I snapped these pictures as soon as I was done. The clone hasn’t had any time to adjust whatsoever. I’m showing this now so we can compare to a 48 hours from now picture. By game time Sunday this is going to look like a scrog without the net. It will be amazing. I don’t need a scrog screen to beat a scrog. Check out the relative height to the other two now. This I can work with and create a uniform canopy across three plants so that all flip at the same level. Whatever about the 1/2 gallons, I couldn’t care less about them. (Sorta I do actually, lol). These girls here are the grow and the show.

Here you go. Pre-adjustment by the clone pics.

Pretty much flat. If you do all that training why do you need a net. It amazes me how you end up the same height.

 

[Jon]

Pretty much flat. If you do all that training why do you need a net. It amazes me how you end up the same height.

Thanks Keith! By flip she will be nice and flat and opened up and all that good stuff. And honestly it’s so much easier than you think. It is really nothing more than pulling branches to the side when you break it down to its bare essence. Seriously that is all it is. It’s a method that works well because of how weed plants grow. Every time it will happen the same way. All I really do to make a scrog without the screen is pull main branches out in a wide ring, open up the middle, and let it fill in. It’s really just that. Sure it’s easier to say than to do. But if you tried doing it one time you’d see how easy it is. And btw - a huge outdoor non - scrog done in this fashion would be so damn badass and so damn productive. If you ever want to try it you’ve seen it a bunch now and I’ll be happy to help out if you want. It looks like magic sometimes even to me but as soon as you do it and get it you see it’s not magic. It’s taking advantage of how the plant grows and a very natural, relatively cut free, training method. I feel like the fewer times I have to take scissors to any plant, the better she likes it.

 

[Jon]

Thanks Keith! By flip she will be nice and flat and opened up and all that good stuff. And honestly it’s so much easier than you think. It is really nothing more than pulling branches to the side when you break it down to its bare essence. Seriously that is all it is. It’s a method that works well because of how weed plants grow. Every time it will happen the same way. All I really do to make a scrog without the screen is pull main branches out in a wide ring, open up the middle, and let it fill in. It’s really just that. Sure it’s easier to say than to do. But if you tried doing it one time you’d see how easy it is. And btw - a huge outdoor non - scrog done in this fashion would be so damn badass and so damn productive. If you ever want to try it you’ve seen it a bunch now and I’ll be happy to help out if you want. It looks like magic sometimes even to me but as soon as you do it and get it you see it’s not magic. It’s taking advantage of how the plant grows and a very natural, relatively cut free, training method. I feel like the fewer times I have to take scissors to any plant, the better she likes it.

The best part (and to my eyes the most mind blowing) is that everything you see - that entire canopy and every single top in there - is connected to only six colas. That means only one thing - this is a genetic masterpiece. I’ve never once had that much super solid center fill on a circle this big with only six colas. It’s insane and a function of the breathtaking internodal spacing he got with this cross. And guess what? He just sent me this picture of my actual cross - growing in his greenhouse, and starting to be gigantic. But if you see those leaves and colas and could see mine as close as I do - it’s the same plant! Wow. Who knew how badass it is to start with clones? I was always scairt!! But now if I have a question about this plant specifically and I ask Yoda, his answer really is THE answer cuz it’s the same plant!!

This learning curve is way steeper than the first twenty and super damn fun. Here’s what my girl would look like huge in 20 year old, perfectly balanced, fully organic soil powered by both the sun and the highest end lights on the planet and grown by someone with ultimate skills:

 

[Jon]

1/2 Gallon Girls

These are so easy to whip around they spend days outside now as much as the sun allows. I’m gonna do nothing to these and let them flower (can I even use that word with these….plants?) in whatever state they’re in at flip. They’ll end up way top heavy but that’s what stakes are for. Betcha I pull an ounce easy from mini-Skywalker. I have no earthly idea what mini-MM x M34 will do. She’s a wild card and I’m sure up to no good.

Here’s Mutt, Jeff, and Mutt n Jeff.

Hard to believe this Skywalker and the beauty in the 7 in the tent broke ground on the same day.

 

[Jon]

Topping Day
Bubblegum Sherbet
Skywalker

Done and done.

 

[Gee64]

Whoa. Time for a Big Change in the Garden

Suddenly, as I am looking at the clone scrog, it hits me like a ton of bricks.

LET GO OF THE SCROG SCREEN.

This screen is dictating the timing of the flip, the height of the plants, and the training decisions on the other plants. What am I, obtuse? I can make this garden the overall several plant mechanism operating as one unit it’s supposed to be simply by taking back my control. I realized I have given that control to a dumb rig that I’ll use again in something else. And if I have absorbed the lessons from the lab guys, @Gee64 and @Keffka and Co., then I understand the scrog is not necessarily the best training method for a semi organic in this particular circumstance.

So I’m losing the scrog screen and the rig for the remainder of the grow. Then I’m going to make the changes I know will improve this grow.

This is training stuff. I feel fairly comfortable in my decisions in this arena.

Pictures of a much improved situation in a while.

Awesome! I would love your honest comparison when your at harvest between the 2 styles. I am contemplating a single plant scrog in a 40 gallon pot next grow.

I have an idea but I am not commited yet. Its been a long time since I just grew some plants to harvest and I may want to do 4 more manifolds just for the satisfaction of a familiar grow one more time.

We shall see.

If I find some intriguing sativa seeds to grow instead of Durbans I may grow 1 big scrogger.

 

[Jon]

Awesome! I would love your honest comparison when your at harvest between the 2 styles. I am contemplating a single plant scrog in a 40 gallon pot next grow.

I have an idea but I am not commited yet. Its been a long time since I just grew some plants to harvest and I may want to do 4 more manifolds just for the satisfaction of a familiar grow one more time.

We shall see.

If I find some intriguing sativa seeds to grow instead of Durbans I may grow 1 big scrogger.

Thanks Gee! But I don’t have to wait until harvest, unless you think a semi is different in terms of training response. I’ve done both ways a ton. I have yet to find the scrog I can’t beat in all aspects without using a screen. It’s simply easier, more accurate, and more effective without a screen. The screen kills your flexibility. The screen impinges your access, legs or no legs. I would suggest for a giant 40 gallon single plant scrog you don’t have much choice anyway, unless you rigged up some form of giant screen. For a 40? In my opinion and I’m sure I’ll get toasted here for expressing it by some who strongly think I’m wrong, but you’d have a hell of a time with a 40 gallon screen sized appropriately. I don’t know how even a walking person would be able to access the center. You would need a screen 5 or six times bigger than what I just removed to make it proportional to a 40. I mean, my screen just removed was sized to a seven and it was 38” wide. Maybe it can be done, but you might need an army of highly trained midgets to crawl under the screen and defoliate it for you. Lmao.

 

[Jon]

Now We’re Talking!!!!
Garden Reset

I snapped these pictures as soon as I was done. The clone hasn’t had any time to adjust whatsoever. I’m showing this now so we can compare to a 48 hours from now picture. By game time Sunday this is going to look like a scrog without the net. It will be amazing. I don’t need a scrog screen to beat a scrog. Check out the relative height to the other two now. This I can work with and create a uniform canopy across three plants so that all flip at the same level. Whatever about the 1/2 gallons, I couldn’t care less about them. (Sorta I do actually, lol). These girls here are the grow and the show.

Here you go. Pre-adjustment by the clone pics.

Hey @InTheShed, I hope the comparison isnt offensive to you but to me it’s looking like this is the closest looking plant I ever grew to looking sorta like a mini Shed plant! Which would be far less offensive to me for sure! Lmao!

 

[Jon]

@ViparSpectra Tent

Now is about the time when I am beginning a thing I did last grow for the first time that I believe *maybe* was a contributing factor in my noticeable uptick in density. I already am of the opinion that the difference was dramatic enough that merely changing from Prescription Blend to Remo doesn’t account for it. I believe part of the reason may have been that in the last last grow, I tried treating the coco plants as if they were soil plants in terms of watering for a few days occasionally.

Commonly accepted thought says don’t do this. Keep coco wet at all times. Etc etc. Well why? So what if it hydrophobic or whatever the dumb term is. I figured if I treated it like a soil plant, maybe the plant would experience a bit of periodic stress it would not otherwise feel. If I got it right in terms of frequency, the idea was to see if that artificially generated stress response would potentially cause the plant to react with something good, like a trichome shower or even a minor bump. Like massive or barely noticeable increases in terpenes. And maybe with some increased growth as she works harder to grab nutes?

Anyway, what I got was way increased density. I don’t know if this was actually a factor or not. I suspect the side lighting had a greater impact. But maybe it helped a little, and this is a question of maxing yield. I’ll take any 1 or 2 or 3% bump I can, especially if it happens to make my life easier, lol.

Examples/Stuff:
- I have not watered the plants in this VS tent today at all. The scrog has worked off yesterday’s feed all day today. The bottom of both pots has water and I can feel the weight there. They can work for it. The top is dryish. In soil I’d be days from the next watering. In coco I’m way late. Tomorrow morning they’ll each get a gallon and that’s it til the next day. I’ll keep this up for four or five days before going back to wasting nutes normally. Three or four times through flower I’ll repeat.
- I would never dream of treating a photo in this manner. I don’t do crazy experiments with photos generally. Smaller steps there. They matter. Autos do to but they’re my lab. I do as many experiments as possible with coco autos. They’re perfect candidates for experiments. Especially since they don’t inspire nearly the emotional connection to the plant that a sweet photo does, least for me.

So there’s a Jon two cents piece for what it’s worth with no pictures. Thought about showing an empty water jug.

 

[InTheShed]

Hey @InTheShed, I hope the comparison isnt offensive to you but to me it’s looking like this is the closest looking plant I ever grew to looking sorta like a mini Shed plant! Which would be far less offensive to me for sure! Lmao!

I didn't realize there was a "Shed plant" shape, but I certainly wouldn't take offense at the comparison with that great clone!

 

[NickHardy]

Its an extremely striking plant that one of yours, Shed.

Looks like a missile battery imho.

Not seen enough of your work to say its a la Shed - but I’m only on page 120 or so of your journal

 

[Azimuth]

This differs 180 degrees from how plants feed from a colony of crobes. In that case, my understanding so far is basically that it’s the equivalent of offering the plant a full buffet table and she takes only what she wants or needs. Plants do not have to scrap their buffet plates before they return for a second round because they have taken exactly what they needed at the time and in the exact amount they needed. There is no waste and no uptake of crazy, damage causing nutrient levels.

Close. But the microbes are the middle man. In your example the plant goes and takes a nice seat at the restaurant and then grabs every passing waiter and offers them a little taste of a sugary treat if they go to the buffet and bring back what is asked for. And no need to get up from the table to go to the buffet itself. It's good to be king queen.

This is how I do it. I simply take my finger and dig a small trough or moat. In a circle around the plant. A straight down vertical wall of water falling through the medium in a circle exactly where I put the moat is what I’m after. That’s targeting. The trough or moat makes it super easy. You simply slowly pour into the moat. The water will flow around and only fill in the moat. I tend to dig it using the outermost leaf tips I have as my guide generally speaking. I use the tips to determine my moat circumference.

Unfortunately that's not the way water flows through a medium. If the medium is homogeneous it will spread out as it falls with gravity in a pyramid shape. However, if you just up-potted a dense root ball and water outside of it, the water will take the easy path through the looser medium and won't hang around long enough to wet the rootball in any appreciable way.

That's why Shed has to water in the middle. The water will still spread out but has to go through that root ball first.

I do like the moat idea, though.

 

[CaptainLucky]

As you check it out, do you see how I just turned a messy scrog that was weeks away from a sub par finish into a plant that I could flip tomorrow if I wanted? Heh.

Don’t ya just love this amazing plant that you do with whatever you want and it rewards you with so much joy? I’m missing not having anything growing right now but my vacation is needed more than ever. CL.

 

[Jon]

I didn't realize there was a "Shed plant" shape, but I certainly wouldn't take offense at the comparison with that great clone!

The shape of your sweetie in the contest is what I call classic Shed shape. And what a shape it is! Long stem due to higher topping, usually nice and thick and solid, and a gigantic umbrella-esque canopy up top that’s flat generally speaking except for the mountains of huge colas up top and falling all over. Great shape, excellent production for the size of the plant always.

You know…a Shed plant.

 

[Jon]

Close. But the microbes are the middle man. In your example the plant goes and takes a nice seat at the restaurant

Ok thanks @Azimuth, fair enough. I get that.

 

[Jon]

Its an extremely striking plant that one of yours, Shed.

Looks like a missile battery imho.

Not seen enough of your work to say its a la Shed - but I’m only on page 120 or so of your journal

Good luck with that journal equivalent of War and Peace. Lmao!

 

[Jon]

Close. But the microbes are the middle man. In your example the plant goes and takes a nice seat at the restaurant

Also Azi, do you think that what I described will indeed cause a bit of stress and it might cause a nice response?

 

[Jon]

Roots and AirPots

Guys, is this a thing? I haven’t used AirPots too much and these are taller than the others I’ve used and not as wide. I wouldn’t expect these VS tent scrog plants roots to even make it all the way down necessarily due to the tallness of these pots. Don’t like them, won’t use them again. But check it out - it seems the roots on these two must have something good going on inside there, cuz I have this…..

 

[Azimuth]

Close. But the microbes are the middle man. In your example the plant goes and takes a nice seat at the restaurant and then grabs every passing waiter and offers them a little taste of a sugary treat if they go to the buffet and bring back what is asked for. And no need to get up from the table to go to the buffet itself. It's good to be king queen.


Unfortunately that's not the way water flows through a medium. If the medium is homogeneous it will spread out as it falls with gravity in a pyramid shape. However, if you just up-potted a dense root ball and water outside of it, the water will take the easy path through the looser medium and won't hang around long enough to wet the rootball in any appreciable way.

That's why Shed has to water in the middle. The water will still spread out but has to go through that root ball first.

I do like the moat idea, though.

@Jon , my full response got cut off. I edited it above...