- Thread starter
- #541
You’re correct, sorry, my bad. That was right before the rain. You’re right, she was dry, I made the decision to toss her on watering day.The top pic? I would expect the cloth pot to be dark then!
Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real
- Thread starter Jon
- Start date
I had another thought about this mounding thing that might be completely irrelevant since I don't grow that way, but here it is:
I find that after upcan I need more water in the middle of the pot where the original rootball is drying out at the same rate it did before the upcan (close to daily). Watering the outside leaves me with wilty plants and deficiencies.
I find that after upcan I need more water in the middle of the pot where the original rootball is drying out at the same rate it did before the upcan (close to daily). Watering the outside leaves me with wilty plants and deficiencies.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Im not sure what ECT is but ACT is aerated compost tea. And Yayyyy to the recipesHere’s a real rare treat!!!
Today my Yoda in Oregon sent me some information about the parent strains of my clone. Along with it, he even sent pictures as he is currently growing both the mom and the dad, along with pictures of the specific phenotypes he’s found so far in the cross I’m growing! And astoundingly, this is by FAR the best part and the guys in the lab are going to be psyched to see this: he is sending me his specific soil recipe and ECT recipe for both veg and flower he uses to grow this specific cross he’s created. I don’t even know what an ECT recipe is or means!
Wow. Like my jaw on the floor and salivating like a fool wow. I’m so psyched to share this treat with you guys, so let’s get to it. When I get the soil recipes I’ll post in the lab. Maybe. I may need to consult first so I don’t accidentally post something that I don’t understand at all that may impact someone. Here’s some pics:
This is the Mom. Lifesaver - blue phenotype
This is the Dad. Sour Bubble Bx3
Here’s a cut and paste of what Yoda says about these parents:
You can see why I made the cross. Sour bubble bx3 is super dank afghan funk, but it lacked bud sites and branching. It basically grows as one bud indoor with minimal veg…perfect for mono crop/sog. Outdoor it sucks, lots of defoliation and not enough branching. Lifesaver is awesome outdoor but lacks the dank ass afghan chocolate coffee punch. Lifesaver blue is the only flower that I could smoke paperless joints with..epic structure with superior branching.
I’ll stop there for now so that this post doesn’t get too long. I have pictures of his several phenotypes of this cross I’m calling Sour Lifesaver next, along with his comments on them.
Idk. This feels special and rare to me. You guys digging this as much as I am?
- Thread starter
- #545
Not quite sure to what you’re referring with this “mounding” thing. Do you mean the way I uppot with a small hill in the middle to run the water to the outside so as to draw out roots? And you’re contrasting that with what works for you and why? That’s how I read your post, is this correct? If so, I haven’t had that experience nor had a plant behave like that. When I water after an uppot I target that trough directly above the circle where the smaller root ball meets the new soil and I water there for a couple cycles before beginning to widen out. Perhaps that allows some or enough water to “get into” or also wet the center root ball where you’re saying you need more after uppotting and that’s why I get away with it? Idk that’s a semi-educated guess?
Yes, that hill is what I'm referring to as a mound.
I was just pointing out that after upcan, my plants need water much more in the center of the pot where the original rootball is, still drinking water at the rate it was before transplant. When I water only around the outside (into the new soil) the leaves droop and the plant shows deficiencies.
As I mentioned, I have no experience with mounding (or making hills or whatever you'd like to call the top of your medium that's higher around the stem and slopes to the outside edge
), just that my plants would look like yours did if I don't water the middle after transplant.- Thread starter
- #547
No a photo. All the semi organics are photos. That’s why they’re all tied together on the flip timing and why I’ve had to keep that in mind as I make decisions. Including the one I face now. These plants are all together in the same tent under the same light and on the same flip schedule. Therefore I want to have relatively flat canopy tops, whether it’s a ring, an actual canopy, or even 8 colas and long branches. Whatever I do they all need relatively flat topped at flip. I then match their flat tops to the static flat level of the scrog screen. Then flip.
So whatever state they are in is how they go to flower when the scrog is ready to flip. I estimate that time to be 2 1/2 weeks or so. So the question is, where and when go top the non scrog plants, how to train them, and what to do with the two half gallon girls with training - like do I go full lollipop or how many branches to keep for what will become a way top heavy plant shortly since the pot is so small and light. These are basically training decisions, but it’s about time for them to be made.
- Thread starter
- #548
Ok gotcha. Thanks for clarifying for me. And I don’t really know what to say about it. Your way seems to work really really well for you. I might say the same for mine. So hey - I’m happy your methodology not only makes you comfortable but works excessively well, as your hardware proves!Yes, that hill is what I'm referring to as a mound.
I was just pointing out that after upcan, my plants need water much more in the center of the pot where the original rootball is, still drinking water at the rate it was before transplant. When I water only around the outside (into the new soil) the leaves droop and the plant shows deficiencies.
As I mentioned, I have no experience with mounding (or making hills or whatever you'd like to call the top of your medium that's higher around the stem and slopes to the outside edge
I was just trying to think of possible answers to your question about the plant.
- Thread starter
- #550
Oh! That’s gotta be what he meant. When I ask him what his secret is and why his weed is the best (to me), he invariably says two things: his soil and his tea. These are his pride and joy. And one couldn’t change soil mixes in a greenhouse grow for flower, duh, nor would he use the word recipe. Which means he mistyped, wrote ECT instead of ACT, and is in fact sending me both his soil and teas recipes. Which is insanely awesome. My guess is he will give me the secure version of the soil and “forget” lol to give me the proportions as he holds those like the worlds last gold bars. But I’ll at least have every ingredient, and I betcha you guys can play with that. It’s also going to reflect many of the same ingredients you guys use. It’ll be cool thing for everyone and I get to learn more than everyone! Lmao.Im not sure what ECT is but ACT is aerated compost tea. And Yayyyy to the recipes
- Thread starter
- #551
I know and I appreciate it! I just got nothing. Lol! But also that MM that recovered has been 1/2 gallon all the way. It’s like her tiny stem isn’t far from the pot edge. Hardly possible to divide the space between, so pretty much every watering WAS the whole pot. Idk if any of that made a difference. Nobody seems to have a definitive answer and I’m cool with that. I settle on some magic rain fixed her. Heh.I was just trying to think of possible answers to your question about the plant.
- Thread starter
- #552
Last Piece on Strawberry Gorilla Training
We are now finished all training on this plant. All her bonds have been entirely relaeased and you see here her final shape and circumference pretty much. Her stretch is on big time. I showed you how we got here. So my last things were aimed at “completing” the training. It’s now done and as early as I possibly could have completed it.
To complete it, what I did was two things, one elemental to the training style and one purely cosmetic and fun.
The one that is a must is the upper level targeted defoliation to expose all the new growth you want exposed, eliminate any fans you’re done with, and chop any shoots you want chopped. I finish out the undercarriage as we go as it’s a just keep it clean quickie thing the rest of the grow. And I did some of the top level defol earlier today. But then after six hours of growth following that, everything set back into place. Then loosen up all the bonds and it again the canopy changes a little and changes the spacing some. THEN I do a first “final” defol. It’s to set her up as she is about to start leafing back up a lot as she flowers and builds buds for a while. Also exposes all the sites you just created. There will be plenty coming in. Now I have space to accommodate them and the plant can breath up top. This semi skeletal look you see here will last all of 48 hours maybe. Autos in coco really do move fast. It’s so much fun. And notice within that skeleton if you can see, that almost every top, including the little center fills, have an appreciable amount of stem under them. Since we are now going nowhere but up, those will only grow and lengthen. Maybe they’ll give me some nodes of buds. Bit without some decent stemmage that’s not even possible. Longer stems = more bud most of the time. So even in this type of canopied ring training (for lack of a better term) I go for as much stem as I can get underneath her final form. This is why for me it’s important with autos to get not just the training done as early as possible, but also the final shaping and first final defol.
The purely cosmetic step is that I also took the stakes, as I said earlier, still there but hanging, and used them to space the colas out evenly as best I could. They were fine. To do this is simply OCD stuff, or show plant tweaking, or whatever you wanna call it. I call it a fun step to do. Super easy. Just even it out all around so you have the same space between each main cola all around. Make it even!!! Assuming you’re a fan of order. Fan of chaos? Betcha you can do that without my help.
We are now finished all training on this plant. All her bonds have been entirely relaeased and you see here her final shape and circumference pretty much. Her stretch is on big time. I showed you how we got here. So my last things were aimed at “completing” the training. It’s now done and as early as I possibly could have completed it.
To complete it, what I did was two things, one elemental to the training style and one purely cosmetic and fun.
The one that is a must is the upper level targeted defoliation to expose all the new growth you want exposed, eliminate any fans you’re done with, and chop any shoots you want chopped. I finish out the undercarriage as we go as it’s a just keep it clean quickie thing the rest of the grow. And I did some of the top level defol earlier today. But then after six hours of growth following that, everything set back into place. Then loosen up all the bonds and it again the canopy changes a little and changes the spacing some. THEN I do a first “final” defol. It’s to set her up as she is about to start leafing back up a lot as she flowers and builds buds for a while. Also exposes all the sites you just created. There will be plenty coming in. Now I have space to accommodate them and the plant can breath up top. This semi skeletal look you see here will last all of 48 hours maybe. Autos in coco really do move fast. It’s so much fun. And notice within that skeleton if you can see, that almost every top, including the little center fills, have an appreciable amount of stem under them. Since we are now going nowhere but up, those will only grow and lengthen. Maybe they’ll give me some nodes of buds. Bit without some decent stemmage that’s not even possible. Longer stems = more bud most of the time. So even in this type of canopied ring training (for lack of a better term) I go for as much stem as I can get underneath her final form. This is why for me it’s important with autos to get not just the training done as early as possible, but also the final shaping and first final defol.
The purely cosmetic step is that I also took the stakes, as I said earlier, still there but hanging, and used them to space the colas out evenly as best I could. They were fine. To do this is simply OCD stuff, or show plant tweaking, or whatever you wanna call it. I call it a fun step to do. Super easy. Just even it out all around so you have the same space between each main cola all around. Make it even!!! Assuming you’re a fan of order. Fan of chaos? Betcha you can do that without my help.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
With the ingredients all you really need to do is seperate them into carbs and proteins and then figure it out from there.
It wouldn't be too hard to get it in the ballpark.
Then research the ingredients to find out the mineral contents and build your contents from the 2 halves at 2/3 carbs and 1/3 proteins in a manner that addresses the npk ratios.
Traces will just happen as long as you use his whole list of ingredients. Plants eat exactly the same as humans. 2 carbs to 1 protein and lots of calcium and magnesium with traces.
We want fibre, microbes call fibre "Carbon" so after all that add your carbon and perlite. I use coco for carbon. Its consistent.
Then cook it up and check the ph. If its 6.2-6.4 your golden. If he grows Indicas it will be closer to 6.4. Sativas prefer closer to 6.2.
If any deficiencies arise you adjust ingredients on the rebuild.
But lets hope he sends the full recipes.
If not we will learn a ton researching the ingredients
- Thread starter
- #554
Lol! Thanks Gee and I hope you’re right. And that little primer you just disseminated? It’s 110x easier for you to write than for me to grasp completely. Lmao! So we will see. He said be patient a couple days, but after a couple I’ll stay on him. I have to now, I tossed it out there. Heh.With the ingredients all you really need to do is seperate them into carbs and proteins and then figure it out from there.
It wouldn't be too hard to get it in the ballpark.
Then research the ingredients to find out the mineral contents and build your contents from the 2 halves at 2/3 carbs and 1/3 proteins in a manner that addresses the npk ratios.
Traces will just happen as long as you use his whole list of ingredients. Plants eat exactly the same as humans. 2 carbs to 1 protein and lots of calcium and magnesium with traces.
We want fibre, microbes call fibre "Carbon" so after all that add your carbon and perlite. I use coco for carbon. Its consistent.
Then cook it up and check the ph. If its 6.2-6.4 your golden. If he grows Indicas it will be closer to 6.4. Sativas prefer closer to 6.2.
If any deficiencies arise you adjust ingredients on the rebuild.
But lets hope he sends the full recipes.
If not we will learn a ton researching the ingredients
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Maybe we can get it wrong and make it better
- Thread starter
- #556
@ViparSpectra Tent Scrog Update
Sometimes the answer to a problem has been staring you in the face and you have simply failed to see it. Maybe all you have to do is change your mindset a little and solutions begin to present themselves.
Such was the case tonight as I stared at the scrog, banging my head about the Cherry Pie and how uncooperative she is. How her thick ass stems are making my scrog hell. How it’s practically impossible to get any spread on this plant. I’ve done this a lot with all kinds of strains and this girl is a load. And the ultra crappy excuse for a screen I’m using just magnifies the problem with respect to the scrog and keeping her at screen level. I couldn’t figure out how to fix it. I was focused on the screen.
Then it hit me and was such a duh moment I LOL’ed at myself.
There’s an ABOVE the screen and a BELOW the screen!!!
Duh.
A few stakes later and we now have a legit situation going on. Now she’s down and spread and isn’t going to haunt me anymore.
Jon - 1
Cherry Pie - 0
Look at the defeated plant hanging her head as she was given a sharp rebuke and had to be reminded who the alpha dog is around here.
The plant in the last picture just got trimmed too and that girl is WELL aware of who the AD is….heh.
Sometimes the answer to a problem has been staring you in the face and you have simply failed to see it. Maybe all you have to do is change your mindset a little and solutions begin to present themselves.
Such was the case tonight as I stared at the scrog, banging my head about the Cherry Pie and how uncooperative she is. How her thick ass stems are making my scrog hell. How it’s practically impossible to get any spread on this plant. I’ve done this a lot with all kinds of strains and this girl is a load. And the ultra crappy excuse for a screen I’m using just magnifies the problem with respect to the scrog and keeping her at screen level. I couldn’t figure out how to fix it. I was focused on the screen.
Then it hit me and was such a duh moment I LOL’ed at myself.
There’s an ABOVE the screen and a BELOW the screen!!!
Duh.
A few stakes later and we now have a legit situation going on. Now she’s down and spread and isn’t going to haunt me anymore.
Jon - 1
Cherry Pie - 0
Look at the defeated plant hanging her head as she was given a sharp rebuke and had to be reminded who the alpha dog is around here.
The plant in the last picture just got trimmed too and that girl is WELL aware of who the AD is….heh.
- Thread starter
- #557
Blackberry Moonrocks
This girl, our final entry and a latecomer to the grow, is starting to show her style a bit and become a handsome little girl. I like that’s she’s tightish but not too tight. Good internodal spacing. Her growth rate so far is about what I’d call average. The 420h produces a bit of a bleached look to photos so it’s hard to tell but if she looks light she’s not in real light. Beautiful light emerald green color. Really hope her buds turn out as exotic looking and purple as the marketing pictures on the strain. Gorgeous buds. Super high thc. Maybe not always my thing, but often is, and almost always is to my buddies. Everyone wants high numbers, thinking that’s the determinant factor in their enjoyment.
This girl, our final entry and a latecomer to the grow, is starting to show her style a bit and become a handsome little girl. I like that’s she’s tightish but not too tight. Good internodal spacing. Her growth rate so far is about what I’d call average. The 420h produces a bit of a bleached look to photos so it’s hard to tell but if she looks light she’s not in real light. Beautiful light emerald green color. Really hope her buds turn out as exotic looking and purple as the marketing pictures on the strain. Gorgeous buds. Super high thc. Maybe not always my thing, but often is, and almost always is to my buddies. Everyone wants high numbers, thinking that’s the determinant factor in their enjoyment.
- Thread starter
- #558
Potential Training Decision in Pictures
I thought it might be a little different and maybe present a different way of illustrating how and why one might consider a certain training method or style when it is that time. It is about time for that decision with the Bubblegum Sherbet semi organic in the garden.
I’ll go through this top to bottom and use the captions to describe each picture/step.
First, here’s our intrepid and quite gorgeous lady from above and from the side. Note her structure in the side shot.
1. I’m considering topping right here above node six:
2. That would give me an almost even four colas right here out of these four. The tops would be pulled to the side to allow the lower colas to catch up.
3. Then I have another almost even four more colas at this second level. These would also catch up and I’d ensure that they did however I had to between spreading and/or arresting growth or whatever of what they had to catch above them.
Already that gives us an 8-cola top. I could keep it as such, including chopping the two branches at the first node and the seconds while maintaining a canopy of sorts from the 8 tops. They’d grow up as the scrog their flip is attached to grew up. I’m starting to understand that in organics or with semi, it’s kind of important to end up supporting the “right” or “optimal” number of tops for the size of your container, ie the size of your potential colony feeding her. I’m getting the sweet spot vibe in that regard as a thing. And she’s only in a 3 (dummy, she’s awesome, shoulda used a five or seven). So I’m thinking go as low as I would go on tops with this plant in this pot and stop her there at 8. If the thinking was she can support 10, I can top the two most appropriate branches and make two more tops, but I strongly prefer with photos and now in semi organic photos to not split side branches.
That seems to be the easiest, timeliest, most logical, and effective thing to do and it feels to me like it reflects my organic training, (lol).
I would greatly appreciate and benefit from any feedback you guys might have for me on this. Thanks very much.
I thought it might be a little different and maybe present a different way of illustrating how and why one might consider a certain training method or style when it is that time. It is about time for that decision with the Bubblegum Sherbet semi organic in the garden.
I’ll go through this top to bottom and use the captions to describe each picture/step.
First, here’s our intrepid and quite gorgeous lady from above and from the side. Note her structure in the side shot.
1. I’m considering topping right here above node six:
2. That would give me an almost even four colas right here out of these four. The tops would be pulled to the side to allow the lower colas to catch up.
3. Then I have another almost even four more colas at this second level. These would also catch up and I’d ensure that they did however I had to between spreading and/or arresting growth or whatever of what they had to catch above them.
Already that gives us an 8-cola top. I could keep it as such, including chopping the two branches at the first node and the seconds while maintaining a canopy of sorts from the 8 tops. They’d grow up as the scrog their flip is attached to grew up. I’m starting to understand that in organics or with semi, it’s kind of important to end up supporting the “right” or “optimal” number of tops for the size of your container, ie the size of your potential colony feeding her. I’m getting the sweet spot vibe in that regard as a thing. And she’s only in a 3 (dummy, she’s awesome, shoulda used a five or seven). So I’m thinking go as low as I would go on tops with this plant in this pot and stop her there at 8. If the thinking was she can support 10, I can top the two most appropriate branches and make two more tops, but I strongly prefer with photos and now in semi organic photos to not split side branches.
That seems to be the easiest, timeliest, most logical, and effective thing to do and it feels to me like it reflects my organic training, (lol).
I would greatly appreciate and benefit from any feedback you guys might have for me on this. Thanks very much.
- Thread starter
- #559
Whoa. Time for a Big Change in the Garden
Suddenly, as I am looking at the clone scrog, it hits me like a ton of bricks.
LET GO OF THE SCROG SCREEN.
This screen is dictating the timing of the flip, the height of the plants, and the training decisions on the other plants. What am I, obtuse? I can make this garden the overall several plant mechanism operating as one unit it’s supposed to be simply by taking back my control. I realized I have given that control to a dumb rig that I’ll use again in something else. And if I have absorbed the lessons from the lab guys, @Gee64 and @Keffka and Co., then I understand the scrog is not necessarily the best training method for a semi organic in this particular circumstance.
So I’m losing the scrog screen and the rig for the remainder of the grow. Then I’m going to make the changes I know will improve this grow.
This is training stuff. I feel fairly comfortable in my decisions in this arena.
Pictures of a much improved situation in a while.
Suddenly, as I am looking at the clone scrog, it hits me like a ton of bricks.
LET GO OF THE SCROG SCREEN.
This screen is dictating the timing of the flip, the height of the plants, and the training decisions on the other plants. What am I, obtuse? I can make this garden the overall several plant mechanism operating as one unit it’s supposed to be simply by taking back my control. I realized I have given that control to a dumb rig that I’ll use again in something else. And if I have absorbed the lessons from the lab guys, @Gee64 and @Keffka and Co., then I understand the scrog is not necessarily the best training method for a semi organic in this particular circumstance.
So I’m losing the scrog screen and the rig for the remainder of the grow. Then I’m going to make the changes I know will improve this grow.
This is training stuff. I feel fairly comfortable in my decisions in this arena.
Pictures of a much improved situation in a while.
- Thread starter
- #560
Now We’re Talking!!!!
Garden Reset
I snapped these pictures as soon as I was done. The clone hasn’t had any time to adjust whatsoever. I’m showing this now so we can compare to a 48 hours from now picture. By game time Sunday this is going to look like a scrog without the net. It will be amazing. I don’t need a scrog screen to beat a scrog. Check out the relative height to the other two now. This I can work with and create a uniform canopy across three plants so that all flip at the same level. Whatever about the 1/2 gallons, I couldn’t care less about them. (Sorta I do actually, lol). These girls here are the grow and the show.
Here you go. Pre-adjustment by the clone pics.
Garden Reset
I snapped these pictures as soon as I was done. The clone hasn’t had any time to adjust whatsoever. I’m showing this now so we can compare to a 48 hours from now picture. By game time Sunday this is going to look like a scrog without the net. It will be amazing. I don’t need a scrog screen to beat a scrog. Check out the relative height to the other two now. This I can work with and create a uniform canopy across three plants so that all flip at the same level. Whatever about the 1/2 gallons, I couldn’t care less about them. (Sorta I do actually, lol). These girls here are the grow and the show.
Here you go. Pre-adjustment by the clone pics.