Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

I don’t get it? I count 12 plants and looks like 3 5x5 tents? I’m missing something?

or A, B and C are just sections in the one 5x5 you’ll use to grow 12 in?

I go with the less is more theory…

 

[Jon]

Okay, here's what I came up with for the Psycho nutes (I changed the spelling to make it neither searchable nor non-sponsor promoting!).

First off, Jon asked me to run the numbers for hydro, and they have two different charts for that (one basic, one advanced). He said he was going to run his in the middle, but I thought I would run them separately and let him decide which way he wants to go.

I only ran the final veg and final bloom numbers, figuring it was easy to dilute them down for the earlier weeks, and also I'm not getting paid for this.

I ran these for 1L as listed on their instructions, so while the numbers would be the same if he multiplies their feed amounts by 3.8 to make a gallon, multiplying them by 4 as they suggest will produce different numbers, all higher!

[NB: I'm not here to defend any grow method, nute line, set of ratios, or recommendations. All the opinions are mine alone, agree or disagree, and I've put them in brackets. Also, the ingredients in these bottles are the same as almost every other synthetic nutrient line out there. Lastly, I only included bottles that contained at least one element listed, so products with just humics (for example) are not in here.]

Basic Veg mix week 6:
140-32-186, with Ca at 120, Mg at 21, S at 0, and Si at 0.

[To my eyes the N, K, and Ca are too high, and the Mg, S, and Si are too low. I would fix that part with epsom salts and monosilicic acid.]

Advanced Veg mix week 6:
160-38-246 with with Ca at 120, Mg at 21, S at 0, and Si at 30.

[Same as above but higher, however, there is a more reasonable amount of Si.]

Next up, the Bloom numbers.

Basic Flower mix week 8:
145-124-315, with Ca at 90, Mg at 25, S at 0, and Si at 30.

[I say not enough N, too much P, too much K, not enough Ca or Mg, and why don't they believe that sulfur is involved in terpene production?]

Advanced Flower mix week 8:
191-147-425 with with Ca at 90, Mg at 30, S at 0, and Si at 60.

[I'm struck dumb with these numbers.]

None of these even includes their Potash Plus, used for flower weeks 1-4 at 0-4-6. LMK if you need to know what that does to the mix.

I also have to mention that there are no micros in here at all: zero boron, zinc, iron, manganese, or copper.

It's all yours Jon!

Ok @InTheShed, here’s my thoughts, and consider this entire response bracketed as yours were when expressing opinions,

I feel the nute companies, while undoubtedly overly hyping their products and sometimes having questionable marketing, are not full of idiots. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the people making the nutes and figuring out how much of this or that and when know a lot more about every aspect of growing than we do. If they were all idiots and none of their mixes are worth a damn as written (my colloquial take on your opinion, seemingly, Shed), then everyone would always screw their plants up and nobody would buy synthetic nutes. So that said, sure, there are companies with an idiot or two in a position to make decisions. But generally I have to give them a little credit.

With that as my base of assertions, I believe at this point that when one tries a new nute system for the first run, the most important thing to do is to run the system by the book and as written. How else would you ever get a baseline, so as to adjust for the next run? One can run numbers all day and that’s great, but the real bottom line can be found more directly and more accurately simply by observation. I should be able to run Cyco by the book, see what happens, and figure out how I may need to adjust, just by reading the plant, if I’m any good. And certainly if the first run is more than one or two plants with the new system.

I feel there has to be more to a nute system than simply what the numbers say. So I’ll run by the book this first time. At least until (or unless) the plants start to bitch and I can’t take it anymore. Get me a baseline. Not saying Shed’s assessment is inaccurate, just that there’s so much about this plant we don’t know that I feel maybe they know something I don’t. I harken back to a discussion with Emilya from many moons ago where she basically said, “Jon, I have a masters degree in botany and have been growing for years…I know a little…and the guys at the nute companies know a lot more than I do. Give them a chance, they’re not idiots, and run the entire system when you run a system.” I got away from that after a while but we will keep that in mind as we see what Cyco will do.

Two cents.

 

[Jon]

Ok @InTheShed, here’s my thoughts, and consider this entire response bracketed as yours were when expressing opinions,

I feel the nute companies, while undoubtedly overly hyping their products and sometimes having questionable marketing, are not full of idiots. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the people making the nutes and figuring out how much of this or that and when know a lot more about every aspect of growing than we do. If they were all idiots and none of their mixes are worth a damn as written (my colloquial take on your opinion, seemingly, Shed), then everyone would always screw their plants up and nobody would buy synthetic nutes. So that said, sure, there are companies with an idiot or two in a position to make decisions. But generally I have to give them a little credit.

With that as my base of assertions, I believe at this point that when one tries a new nute system for the first run, the most important thing to do is to run the system by the book and as written. How else would you ever get a baseline, so as to adjust for the next run? One can run numbers all day and that’s great, but the real bottom line can be found more directly and more accurately simply by observation. I should be able to run Cyco by the book, see what happens, and figure out how I may need to adjust, just by reading the plant, if I’m any good. And certainly if the first run is more than one or two plants with the new system.

I feel there has to be more to a nute system than simply what the numbers say. So I’ll run by the book this first time. At least until (or unless) the plants start to bitch and I can’t take it anymore. Get me a baseline. Not saying Shed’s assessment is inaccurate, just that there’s so much about this plant we don’t know that I feel maybe they know something I don’t. I harken back to a discussion with Emilya from many moons ago where she basically said, “Jon, I have a masters degree in botany and have been growing for years…I know a little…and the guys at the nute companies know a lot more than I do. Give them a chance, they’re not idiots, and run the entire system when you run a system.” I got away from that after a while but we will keep that in mind as we see what Cyco will do.

Two cents.

Another point: a system with tons of ingredients like this has other uses. My educated guess is that many of these ingredients could be used in other nute systems as replacements or additives. The GrowXL for example. A one time hit in week three of veg according to Cyco. Super phosphate hit for the roots. Way concentrated, 40%. Never heard of such a thing. But I’ll do it. And if it works as touted, it will work with other plants and systems. So I’m looking at the value of the system a little beyond the system itself, if that makes sense.

 

[Absorber]

Ok @InTheShed, here’s my thoughts, and consider this entire response bracketed as yours were when expressing opinions,

I feel the nute companies, while undoubtedly overly hyping their products and sometimes having questionable marketing, are not full of idiots. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the people making the nutes and figuring out how much of this or that and when know a lot more about every aspect of growing than we do. If they were all idiots and none of their mixes are worth a damn as written (my colloquial take on your opinion, seemingly, Shed), then everyone would always screw their plants up and nobody would buy synthetic nutes. So that said, sure, there are companies with an idiot or two in a position to make decisions. But generally I have to give them a little credit.

With that as my base of assertions, I believe at this point that when one tries a new nute system for the first run, the most important thing to do is to run the system by the book and as written. How else would you ever get a baseline, so as to adjust for the next run? One can run numbers all day and that’s great, but the real bottom line can be found more directly and more accurately simply by observation. I should be able to run Cyco by the book, see what happens, and figure out how I may need to adjust, just by reading the plant, if I’m any good. And certainly if the first run is more than one or two plants with the new system.

I feel there has to be more to a nute system than simply what the numbers say. So I’ll run by the book this first time. At least until (or unless) the plants start to bitch and I can’t take it anymore. Get me a baseline. Not saying Shed’s assessment is inaccurate, just that there’s so much about this plant we don’t know that I feel maybe they know something I don’t. I harken back to a discussion with Emilya from many moons ago where she basically said, “Jon, I have a masters degree in botany and have been growing for years…I know a little…and the guys at the nute companies know a lot more than I do. Give them a chance, they’re not idiots, and run the entire system when you run a system.” I got away from that after a while but we will keep that in mind as we see what Cyco will do.

Two cents.

One thing I did notice ,when I first started using it i was running it at 1200ppm and @Keffka suggested 600ppm and 800ppm in flower and since I dropped back to 600ppm about 3-4 weeks ago they perked up instead of having that droopy look

 

[Jon]

Northern Lights Auto
Day 24

Forgive her droop, this morning was a watering day. She started week three of PB veg today. With this Coco Loco, watering frequency is much more like watering soil than straight coco/perlite. I’m watering about every third day. Vs everyday as normal. It saves nutes, but it also feeds the plant less frequently. It will be interesting to see if that has any impact.

I have decided to train this plant to a ten or twelve cola girl. I topped above the fourth node today (or 5th node if you wanna count the three finger leaves as node one, I do not). If I were to keep all the branches I currently have she’s at 12 right now. I’ll train her to a canopy of just the 12 colas from here and maybe lose the two least dominant.

I love her structure and color so far. Can’t believe it’s taken me this long to grow a classic strain that I’ve always loved. Guess she’s a classic for a reason.

 

[Jon]

One thing I did notice ,when I first started using it i was running it at 1200ppm and @Keffka suggested 600ppm and 800ppm in flower and since I dropped back to 600ppm about 3-4 weeks ago they perked up instead of having that droopy look

Are you using ppm as your base of reference? I do that when I use coco/water for the res.

 

[Absorber]

Are you using ppm as your base of reference? I do that when I use coco/water for the res.

Yes, but that's easier for me only using the A&B grow or flower solutions different story running all those other bottles in the set

 

[Jon]

Yes, but that's easier for me only using the A&B grow or flower solutions different story running all those other bottles in the set

Cool, thanks. Yeah I see your point. It’s cool that they supply those numbers in the feed charts.

 

[Absorber]

Cool, thanks. Yeah I see your point. It’s cool that they supply those numbers in the feed charts.

I suppose you could do the mix as recommended (for baseline) and take a ppm reading and if it seems a bit hot for plants next time you can make batch the same then add water to dilute to lower ppm
Easier to hit a specific ppm by adding water to dilute nutrients to required ppm

 

[Jon]

The Blackberry Moonrocks (interestingly, they just renamed this strain in their catalog, I saw last night) has finally slowed down on her consumption. An easy way I’ve been gauging that with this one is by runoff. She gets a gallon every morning. Until today, the runoff over the drip pan and onto the floor has been minimal, sometimes nothing. The last two or three days I saw it increase a little. This is today. This is almost half the gallon. She’s done eating. Now we just await her final ripening. Yay!

 

[Absorber]

The Blackberry Moonrocks (interestingly, they just renamed this strain in their catalog, I saw last night) has finally slowed down on her consumption. An easy way I’ve been gauging that with this one is by runoff. She gets a gallon every morning. Until today, the runoff over the drip pan and onto the floor has been minimal, sometimes nothing. The last two or three days I saw it increase a little. This is today. This is almost half the gallon. She’s done eating. Now we just await her final ripening. Yay!

Looks like a bit of drink driving and possible road rage
Did you run into that left architrave around door frame a few times

 

[Jon]

Looks like a bit of drink driving and possible road rage
Did you run into that left architrave around door frame a few times

Architrave! Wow! 58 years and never once have I seen or heard that word before. Thanks! New words make me super happy! And yes, once or twice. Lol. You should see the bad ones….

 

[Absorber]

Architrave! Wow! 58 years and never once have I seen or heard that word before. Thanks! New words make me super happy! And yes, once or twice. Lol. You should see the bad ones….

Maybe you guys have a different word for it ,I was wondering as I wrote it if you would get what I was saying

 

[NickHardy]

About that journal… I need a couple of weeks. Get my head straight. Got a lot on… Gorilla Glue #4 Dry Ice Hash/kief to work through



Architrave I knew/know, spend too much time with architects and dodgy builders, they love words like that to convince you they’re not dodgy

 

[Absorber]

About that journal… I need a couple of weeks. Get my head straight. Got a lot on… Gorilla Glue #4 Dry Ice Hash/kief to work through



Architrave I knew/know, spend too much time with architects and dodgy builders, they love words like that to convince you they’re not dodgy

 

[SSgrower]

I have noticed the Coco Loco mixed with my Canna coco helps moisture retention, so thank you for verifying my observation. SS

 

[Jon]

Well your 6 tents aren't all probably in the same area aswell

Ha! Actually they will be! In a huge garage! I cannot WAIT to see them all set up and ready for testing. Here’s the light situation:

- 5x5: G8 C3 (550 watts veg/680 watts flower)
- 5x5: @Mars Hydro FC-E6500 (650 watts)
- 5x5: NextLight MEGA Pro (640 watts)
- 3x3: NextLight 420h (420 watts)
- 3x3: Maxsisun PB4000 (400 watts)
- 2x4: @ViparSpectra (2) XS1500 Pro (300 watts)

That leaves the ViparSpectra KS3000 (300 watts) which is the 3x3, one autoflower, indoor light for my living space.

Heh. Can’t wait to see my electric bills. And I should probably plan on blacking out the garage windows. Lmao!

 

[NickHardy]

Ha! Actually they will be! In a huge garage! I cannot WAIT to see them all set up and ready for testing. Here’s the light situation:

- 5x5: G8 C3 (550 watts veg/680 watts flower)
- 5x5: @Mars Hydro FC-E6500 (650 watts)
- 5x5: NextLight MEGA Pro (640 watts)
- 3x3: NextLight 420h (420 watts)
- 3x3: Maxsisun PB4000 (400 watts)
- 2x4: @ViparSpectra (2) XS1500 Pro (300 watts)

That leaves the ViparSpectra KS3000 (300 watts) which is the 3x3, one autoflower, indoor light for my living space.

Heh. Can’t wait to see my electric bills. And I should probably plan on blacking out the garage windows. Lmao!

I think your Mars unless Gen 1 is 710 or 730w Not sure I have the FC6500 and previous version was 710 mine are 730

 

[Jon]

About that journal… I need a couple of weeks. Get my head straight. Got a lot on… Gorilla Glue #4 Dry Ice Hash/kief to work through



Architrave I knew/know, spend too much time with architects and dodgy builders, they love words like that to convince you they’re not dodgy

I have to move first! Take your time!

 

[Jon]

I think your Mars unless Gen 1 is 710 or 730w Not sure I have the FC6500 and previous version was 710 mine are 730

Yeah I know but mine is the E series, the FC E6500. Check the specs.