Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

donpaul.p said:
so from my experience roots seem to grow in any dark humid conditions even without hormones or grow medium, i had about 10 roots growing directly sideways out of the stem of a hempie then smaller roots was growing down into the growing medium, this was after about 2 wees of having newspaper taped over the top of the pot
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That's pretty much the whole idea in a nutshell. Everything else is just details of how to trigger this response in the plant

I respectfully have to disagree with some of your descriptions of plant anatomy and how the plant responds to training though. :winkyface: :Namaste:
While I don't claim to know as much as someone like Corey @ BPN, or many of the skilled growers here, I do posses just enough information to get myself in trouble. :blalol:

That being said, since I started growing again, I did do a little review of the stuff I learned in my botany class during college. A lot of that info stuck because I had just started growing MJ at the time, so I had some practical interest in addition to just being a nature nut in general to begin with. Much of it 'stuck', but the review was still helpful. I highly recommend ALL growers take a couple hours to study some basics of plant anatomy. :nomo:

It's hard to be sure which layers of the stem you're referencing, but I must be misunderstanding how you describe their function. I maintain my objection to making a cut completely around the entire circumference of the stem. I suspect there is some sort of misunderstanding happening here, but checkout "girdling". That's what you're describing.

My understanding of how/why bending works is different as well. I think it has to do with using gravity and the regulation of growth inhibiting hormones. If what you described were true, then how would LST work? Without a "supercrop" type of bend, ie one that "heals" and forms a knuckle, there would be no disruption to any of the layers. This suggests that it's not a matter of restricting the flow of resources, so there must be another mechanism at work here.

hmmmm I think I got a little sidetracked...

The point is, you hit the nail on the head. If you take away the light, and keep up the humidity, the plant will try to make roots. Create those conditions on a stem anywhere, and it will root. I bet you could do this technique without cutting or scraping the stem at all. It might just take longer. All the other details are just efforts to improve the odds of success. Most are aimed at maintaining that moist and dark condition. I'm pretty curious now, so I'll definitely have to do a little experimenting myself.

Anyway, it's definitely an interesting technique, and it lets you clone a strain you otherwise couldn't, then it's a valuable part of your cultivation toolbox. :)

LOL an idea just occurred to me..

What if I grew a nice tall skinny plant, then I did air layering at the very top. One it rooted, plant the 'top'. Now you have an arch of the main branch. That would be funny! hmmmmm another experiment! I already tied one of my father plants' stems into a knot. :blalol: Just think of the cool 'sculptures' you could create with this technique! :rofl:


Damn... Didn't mean this to get so long. DonPaul, please don't think I'm trying to argue. I've heard of Mel and I'm surprised if he is promoting some of these ideas in his book. Maybe I'll pick up a copy.

Thanks for conducting the experiment Jon. I think all of us have learned something from you. :Namaste:
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

Hey Hiker, Its funny you mentioned air layering a plant at the top, I had an idea as soon as DP mentioned this tecnique....Picture this, A plant trained UBT style and then vegged to around 4 feet across the top, air layer all 4 of the main branches and plant them still attached to the plant, so you now have 5 buckets of soil for 1 plant, each main branch would have its own root structure and the original stalk to feed from.Totally rediculous idea but I might just do it outdoors next year for the fun of it, who knows it might actually work well:)
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

hi hiker, yep it was on his book, i downloaded a copy last night so i could copy n paste the section, just taking the dog a walk then ill copy n paste the whole section as it does give the names of the top layer and the layer underneath that you scrape back to,

i was interested to see roots grow on the hempie also with just dark humid conditions, im wondering though that if you didnt scrape back the stem would it just rot away, i wonder why the grow books and videos all say and show to scrape back the stem, their must be some reason why all the growers scrape back the stem, maybe it gives 100% success and not scraping it back dont,

the grow book that mel wrote is the european grow book, when i get back ill copy n paste the whole section, not sure how to add the pics, but its the book he wrote where he explains how he got busted and what to say to police and all that crap, it was a very good book and the best i have read, it covers a whole lot of subjects, it didnt cover soil layering though, just air layering,

you also bring up an interesting idea that i have had myself, these plants produce buds and growth according to the root size, if you keep a plant in a small long pot then you will have a tall plant with not much side growth, if you have really wide but shallow pot then you end up with a really busy but short plant,

so like you said what would happen if you rooted the top of the plant, well with air layering the plant is still feeding from its original roots while we force it to grow roots on the part we scraped back, so i was wondering if we did this at say 4 branches on the plant, then would these branches produce huge buds as they would be getting nutes and water from the main roots but also get nutes from the new roots, would it end up been like a plant on steroids,

its something i have throught about for a while, i guess anything is possible, the more roots the more of a plant you will have, you could even go as far as having the main roots growing in soil but then use air layering and set up some dwc hempies so the new roots would grow in small dwc set, would this then make these branches produce huge buds,
its a very interesting idea,

i would not of told jon this method if it didnt work, im not sure why the grow books and grow guides say to scrape back the stem, ive not come across a video or guide that does not scrape back the stem, the only reason i can think of is that it might not be 100% successful if you dont scrape the stem back, maybe scraping it back encourages the plant to heal in that area but because its dark it encourages roots to grow quicker than not scraping the stem back,

im really not well up on botany, i grow weed and learn along the way, i try different methods and when i have problems i look for answers, so i know air layering works, as for scraping the stem back i followed the grow books and grow videos and scraped the stem back, ive not come across a guide that says not to scrape the stem back, ill check the video site and see if their are any,

i guess it could work but maybe takes longer or maybe its not 100% guaranteed to work, their must be some reason why they all say to scrape the stem back, the video i posted in this journal shows more of the stem been scraped back, mine was more precise and exactly how it was done in mels grow book, it was the european grow book as he was mr big in the UK producing 20tonnes of cannabis a year so he has over 30 years of growing experience so im pretty sure he knows more than most of us put together,

but the video i provided jon looks much easier and less fiddly that what i did, mine was 2 circles cut with scalpol about an inch apart, basically 2 rings around the stem where i wanted to clone, then i peeled back the outer stem revealing the next layer under neath, just how it said in the book then use hormone and cover with grow medium, in his book he does give the names of at least the outer layer and the layer under neath,

so when i get back ill go through the grow book i downloaded and copy n paste the info over so you might get some more info from it than i gave,

when my next round of plants get big enough ill give Hikers method a try, im interested to see if it does work without scraping the stem and without using hormones, ill possibly take 4 or 5 clones from plants and try different methods, if we can see what works best then we know which method to go with, all i can do till then is pass on the method i have used and know works,

but hiker you got an interesting idea with the extra roots on the plant, i was also wondering about this a while back, what if we rooted 4 or 5 branches and let them roots stay on the plant, then them branches are getting nutes and water from the main roots but also getting it from the new roots, would this produce huge buds

but your idea of getting the top of the plant to produce roots is very interesting indeed, you could say grow a plant 3ft high, then bend the end over a bit each day until it was at pot level or even tip the pot its in on its side and then do soil layering into another pot with the top of the plant, so you would then have 2 lots of root mass and all the side shoots would then be growing upwards instead of outwards,

would that produce a monster plant with monster buds, i guess anything is possible, might be something i can try after my next round of plants,
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

i wrote all that and said exactly the same as what jon was thinking, we all got the same ideas,

i guess we could all give it a try at some point, having 2 root masses from a plant turned sideways might produce good results as you would have many branches now growing upwards,

or get all the lower branches and place each branch in its own pot and keep them on the plant so like jon says you would have 4 or 5 lots of pots with roots in, surely this would benefit the plant, might take longer to grow but should produce bigger buds and possibly more agressive growth,

theirs just so much i want to try, got the time but it takes so long to set up and put in place, but i got seedlings growing and clones growing so wouldnt take much to put it into practice,
interesting,
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

lol, i gota take the dog a walk he just fetched me his lead and is now standing by the front door,
i see some interesting grows in the near future,
i see sme monster plants been grown,
i see big buds,
i see some stoned growers with huge buds,
something i think i can try with the plants i got growing at the minute, ill see how it goes with the seedlings but i could do some experimenting
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

Im thinking i ll start vegging a plant indoors in say febuary, im picturing a tomatoe cage inserted into the pot with the cage cut just below the second rings and the steel bend down at a 90 degree angle, I would use these steel rods to train each of the 4 branches out along the rods. Then start the air layering the first of may, by june first It would be ready for transplant outdoors into the 5 pots for another 2.5 months of veg before it starts to flower, like I said its a crazy idea but man would it be cool to look at!! potm for sure:)
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

it would be some crazy looking plant, but if it can be pulled off then im sure it will be unique in every way, plus having 4 times as much root mass can only mean more plant growth, at least you would probably end up with 1 main cola per root mass,

i dont think i could do 5 pots indoors, possibly 2 or have 2 smaller pots on the main pot so i can have roots growing into them, its still more roots, the only problem is that nutrients and water moves on way in the plant so the roots would only feed the branch past the air layer part, so i can see the branches with the extra roots on getting much bigger and growing as a sort of seperate plant, but it would also be getting nutes and water from the original roots so i guess these branches could end up producing bigger buds,

i have not seen anything like this tried before so its a bit of a guess if it will work or not, it cant hurt to try,
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

yep, for sure, i think as long as the area is kept dark and damp then the roots should grow with no problems, my problem was to much light getting into the stem so once i stopped the light it worked every other time i tried it,

all we can do is see how you get on and you can then experiment from then on,
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

good weed Jon and Mrs.705:circle-of-love:
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

:cheertwo::cheertwo::bravo:
jon705 said:
Good weed right back atcha Fishy, I got to talk to mrs,705 last night and she's doing good, making progress as she say:)
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re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

Late but subbed. Gonna go catch up
 
re: Jon705's Multi Strain HPS LED Hybrid System

Yeah its been rough :rofl: ill manage somehow
 
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