What are your grow area temperature and humidity levels? Your leaf damage appears to either be from heat stress or a disruption in the nutrient uptake. What are you feeding your plants and how many millilitres per gallon?
Jimmy6K - The Re-Up - LED/HPS - Multi Strain - Perpetual
- Thread starter Jimmy6000
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J6k sorry to read about the plant issues brotha, are you still using the 1 2 3 growology mixes? Any additions of any other supplements? Any fresh water flushes on these girls?
What are the temps and rH looking like? Could be a pH lock out due to the issues arising at the top new growth..
What are the temps and rH looking like? Could be a pH lock out due to the issues arising at the top new growth..
Holy crap, Jimmy.... Looks like mosaic virus. Spreading like mosaic virus.
GardenFaerie
New Member
Hmm, I can't really see what the leaf looks like close up to determine a pattern like tobacco mosaic. Do you smoke, Jimmy? Cigarettes? I ask because in a commercial greenhouse, you are not permitted to smoke at all anywhere on the property. At my operation, anyway. And if you did smoke, you had to wash your hands before entering the head house where we did the transplanting.
That said, I would take a pair of scissors and alcohol or Lysol and start to cleanly remove everything which is unhealthy or crispy. Between cuts dip the tool into the Lysol or one part bleach ten parts water or alcohol. I prefer the bleach solution, but it must be dilute.
After you clean all that up, check the soil. Is it wet at the bottom and dry at the top?
This looks to me like something cultural, rather than pathological. Can you take a really close shot of one leaf so we can see if there is a viral pattern?
That said, I would take a pair of scissors and alcohol or Lysol and start to cleanly remove everything which is unhealthy or crispy. Between cuts dip the tool into the Lysol or one part bleach ten parts water or alcohol. I prefer the bleach solution, but it must be dilute.
After you clean all that up, check the soil. Is it wet at the bottom and dry at the top?
This looks to me like something cultural, rather than pathological. Can you take a really close shot of one leaf so we can see if there is a viral pattern?
GardenFaerie
New Member
And if you have it, and the soil is not soaking wet at the bottom, water the plants with a dose of liquid seaweed. I use the Maxicrop, but there is Alaska, and several other very reliable brands. It has all trace elements, very low dose N, and hormones which help root development.
I could not even begin to assess the damage when I saw it because I do not know the extended details of the grow as KJC asked them.
Since it appears to be happening wide-spread to the specimens I would agree that it appears to be the result of "cultural practices" rather than a unique case of pathology.
The air quality can make a difference, consider where is the air coming from and can we add a boost of CO2 before it's too late.
Also make sure there is no malfunction with the light and cooling system.
Just my two pennies..
Since it appears to be happening wide-spread to the specimens I would agree that it appears to be the result of "cultural practices" rather than a unique case of pathology.
The air quality can make a difference, consider where is the air coming from and can we add a boost of CO2 before it's too late.
Also make sure there is no malfunction with the light and cooling system.
Just my two pennies..
Thanks for stopping in, GF. If you look at pictures of early onset like this one...
You can see that damage to the affected leaves is asymmetrical, leads to odd curling, necrosis, and eventually death. There are several different types of mosaic virus. They can spread like wildfire just by touching an infected plant and then touching another healthy one. The serial way the problem has spread is what makes me think about a virus. If it was the environment it would have hit all the plants at once. Jimmy's description makes it sound like it is something that is spreading rather than all the plants showing stress at the same time.
I don't really know... I do know that Jimmy is not careless.
You can see that damage to the affected leaves is asymmetrical, leads to odd curling, necrosis, and eventually death. There are several different types of mosaic virus. They can spread like wildfire just by touching an infected plant and then touching another healthy one. The serial way the problem has spread is what makes me think about a virus. If it was the environment it would have hit all the plants at once. Jimmy's description makes it sound like it is something that is spreading rather than all the plants showing stress at the same time.
I don't really know... I do know that Jimmy is not careless.
Here is what Jimmy said about it. It sounds an awful lot like a spreading disease...
GardenFaerie
New Member
It does sound like a disease, but mosaic virus has a very pronounced patterning to the discoloration. It is boxy, even. The thing which strikes me are the green veins in the leaves. Looks either chlorotic or an N deficiency, but it it so hard to tell from the photos. I agree the way it is killing or affecting the plants is interesting in that decline is consecutive, but that can also happen due to how much water is in the soil in each pot and the ones looking good have not yet declined. Different strains may act differently, also.
It would be extremely rare I believe. Nonetheless, certainly possible.
Hoping we can get this under control Jimbo!
Hoping we can get this under control Jimbo!
If it's happening in the ones in soil I would dig up and look down to the first 3 inches of soil and looking for any crawling creatures
that's what I was thinking yesterday when I read it
or did you happen to empty the pots of the plants that did die off and see what it looked like it there?
as for me I know it was bugs in my soil and after chopping the plant down I emptied the pot outside
to see what if anything was crawling in there and yes there was
or did you happen to empty the pots of the plants that did die off and see what it looked like it there?
as for me I know it was bugs in my soil and after chopping the plant down I emptied the pot outside
to see what if anything was crawling in there and yes there was
- Thread starter
- #1,073
Come on now Tric's,No one is uninvited in thepulled uninvited pics of horror
Hey John,At the time this all started,the temps/humidity were very high.I would say they both were in the high 80's to 90.I put a dehumidifier in and cranked up exhaust fan,and other fan's also.I think I got that part under control now.
Whats up CA.I am still using the Growology 3 step.I did use some silica blast a few time's mixed in.I know this is a no no with Growology.I did read where silica can drop you Ph just as much as down will,but I have yet to test it.I just stopped using it for now.My PH as it stand's on normal basis is right at 5.9-6.1 last I checked.A day ago.
PeeJay man you may be correct.Firsrt I have heard of it,but after reading up some and from what Garden F said.I think we may be on to something.
Hey Garden,Yes I am a smoker and that is why this makes sense.I smoke cigar's,and on a few occasion's I did smoke in the room,blowing it out the exhaust fan.Not thinking for one minute to wash my hand's.To make it worst I was doing defoil with my finger's.Not sure why,I never did before.So This does make some think some.
Thank s for stopping in RL.My grow is in a room in the basement.I also pull air from the basement.In one corner of the basement is were I kept all of the fan leave's and stem's and shit in a plastic bag.I also kept used soil in big plastic trash bag there to.Im sure it is was not helping my situation at all.They whave been removed,but that could have been a problem also.I could not even begin to assess the damage when I saw it because I do not know the extended details of the grow as KJC asked them.
Since it appears to be happening wide-spread to the specimens I would agree that it appears to be the result of "cultural practices" rather than a unique case of pathology.
The air quality can make a difference, consider where is the air coming from and can we add a boost of CO2 before it's too late.
Also make sure there is no malfunction with the light and cooling system.
Just my two pennies..
All my equipment is all in working condition as far as I know.
Chronic,What's buddy.I also thought that.I did check soil on two of the dead girl's and I saw nothing moving around.Not to the naked eye anyway.
Well let me get some pic's up for you guy's and maybe we can figure this out a little easier.
Ok,Ill start with a picture of the whole plant and then some close up's of the leaves from the plant.
On the brighter side
Again Thank you all..... J6k
GardenFaerie
New Member
It definitely does not look like mosaic virus. I don't know cannabis well enough to tell you what it is lacking, but it is definitely one or the other, starved or burned. I'll let someone else who really knows what it's about.
- Thread starter
- #1,075
Thanks for taking a look Garden.Worst that can happen is they die.
Good thing I got a few started already.
Good thing I got a few started already.
It's an interesting puzzle, Jimmy. I did some research into mosaic viruses yesterday afternoon. What I learned is they are more common in cannabis than many people are aware of. They are frequently misdiagnosed as being a nutrient problem because the symptoms begin with yellowing. People see the initial yellowing and think, "oh, I have a nitrogen deficiency." Then, as the leafs start to necrotize, curl-up, and die - they assume it's a pH issue.
One thing I found out reading is that mosaic viruses hardly ever completely kill a plant. They tend to completely mess the plant up and drastically reduce yields.
I honestly don't know if mosaic virus is what caused your issue. It's an intriguing theory, however.
I'm not sure why Silica Blast would cause a pH problem.
Guaranteed Analysis:
-Soluble Potash (K2O): 0.5%
-ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT: 2.0% Silicon (Si) from Sodium Silicate and Potassium Silicate.
Derived from: Potassium Silicate
I don't see anything there that would cause a pH fluctuation.
Your environment was a little out of whack, but honestly, it doesn't seem like it was so out of whack that it would do that much damage.
A soil pathogen is a possibility. When you turned out the dirt from a pot was there any sign that something had been attacking the roots?
We may never know what happened... I'd definitely thoroughly clean and disinfect the grow area.
At the least, your problem got me reading and thinking about things I hadn't considered before.
One thing I found out reading is that mosaic viruses hardly ever completely kill a plant. They tend to completely mess the plant up and drastically reduce yields.
I honestly don't know if mosaic virus is what caused your issue. It's an intriguing theory, however.
I'm not sure why Silica Blast would cause a pH problem.
Guaranteed Analysis:
-Soluble Potash (K2O): 0.5%
-ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT: 2.0% Silicon (Si) from Sodium Silicate and Potassium Silicate.
Derived from: Potassium Silicate
I don't see anything there that would cause a pH fluctuation.
Your environment was a little out of whack, but honestly, it doesn't seem like it was so out of whack that it would do that much damage.
A soil pathogen is a possibility. When you turned out the dirt from a pot was there any sign that something had been attacking the roots?
We may never know what happened... I'd definitely thoroughly clean and disinfect the grow area.
At the least, your problem got me reading and thinking about things I hadn't considered before.
- Thread starter
- #1,077
Hey PeeJay.Sorry man I mis-typed that about the silica dropping PH.I actully read in the SNS,Grow book they sent me that silica can change the the pH as much as pH-up will.
I think its a combination of thing's.I will surly be doing a super clean job on the room.Maybe even do a little remodeling.
Thank s for stopping in.I learned alot from this also.
I think its a combination of thing's.I will surly be doing a super clean job on the room.Maybe even do a little remodeling.
Thank s for stopping in.I learned alot from this also.
GardenFaerie
New Member
It very well can be tobacco mosaic, but I don't see the patterning, so I'm suspect. However, if smoke from tobacco is blown into a tent it can contaminate that tent. Mosaic will live through the burning process and remain in the smoke. It will also live through the stomach of a horse, but will be killed in the cow's double system. It is a noxious virus and one you do not want to infect your grow space with. I think the decline would have been more rapid if you have widespread mosaic. Then again, we grow under stressful conditions, not optimal for the plant, optimal for the buds. When you manipulate plants that much, even if you do no LST or training of any kind, the plants are more susceptible to decline of many types.
So, no more smoking tobacco near your grow, no more touching unless you wash you hands up to your elbows before doing any manipulation or defol. Especially keep you cutters clean between all cuts. This is one reason why I am sort of against defol. Not against, just not in favor. It is so easy to spread disease plant to plant that way. Each leaf you remove leaves an open wound for any pathogen to attach itself. Not trying to be alarmist, but rather be safe than sorry.
One last thing. I am noticing that some of the newer potting mixes being sold have a pre-emergent in them. Be careful when buying commercial mixes. They are not regulated.
So, no more smoking tobacco near your grow, no more touching unless you wash you hands up to your elbows before doing any manipulation or defol. Especially keep you cutters clean between all cuts. This is one reason why I am sort of against defol. Not against, just not in favor. It is so easy to spread disease plant to plant that way. Each leaf you remove leaves an open wound for any pathogen to attach itself. Not trying to be alarmist, but rather be safe than sorry.
One last thing. I am noticing that some of the newer potting mixes being sold have a pre-emergent in them. Be careful when buying commercial mixes. They are not regulated.
Your leaf damage may be from improper pH range, heat stress or a cannabis virus, the leaf damage indicates either a pH disruption, heat stress or a cannabis virus. If it is a cannabis virus I believe most of your plants should be displaying the same leaf damage and the plants would be in much worse condition. I believe the leaf damage on your plants is either from heat stress or pH imbalance and would make your last step before watering your plants checking the nutrient mixtures pH and adjusting as necessary.
I would remove the damaged leaves so you may track any further leaf damage and to your plant to make diagnosis more easy.
You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.
Here is a nutrient availability chart
Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart
here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart
Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial
Plant Abuse Chart
I would remove the damaged leaves so you may track any further leaf damage and to your plant to make diagnosis more easy.
You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.
Here is a nutrient availability chart
Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart
here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart
Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial
Plant Abuse Chart
- Thread starter
- #1,080
I really appreciate all the help Garden,and I promise no more smoking near the grow.I will also be sure to wash up after smoking.
Sometime's you think you have it all down,then I got a little care less and look what happens.Lesson learned.
I use Pro-mix,so I don't think there's a problem there.I feel a little ignorant for letting this happen tho.
Sometime's you think you have it all down,then I got a little care less and look what happens.Lesson learned.
I use Pro-mix,so I don't think there's a problem there.I feel a little ignorant for letting this happen tho.