InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

Graytail said:
Well, 4000K should shorten internode length, and that wouldn't be all that welcome, so 3000K or 3500K might be better.

Dunno.
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Good honest answer! I love that in growers here :). Looks like I'm kinda back in the middle of the spectrum.
 
InTheShed said:
Definitely bluer. Is 3500K a better start-to-finish than 3000K, particularly since my plants live outside during daylight hours?

Let me explain my grow to see if it helps. Every morning the plants go into the sun. During veg, every evening they go in the shed under the lights. When I decide to flip my photos, they go into the shed for 12 hours of darkness. So I'm waiting for my autos to finish (so I can get them max light 20/4) before I convert the shed to dark at night and flip the photos. During the winter I try not to run autos while I'm flowering photos.

What that means practically is that only autos will be flowered under these lights. The only time the photos will be under them during flower is if it's cloudy or raining. During veg, everything is under the lights at night.

Does that change any decisions about color temp?

Confused?
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You can do it all under 3500k and be very happy. If I were buying one light, it would be this temp.
Graytail said:
Well, 4000K should shorten internode length, and that wouldn't be all that welcome, so 3000K or 3500K might be better.

Dunno.
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My comment re 4K earlier was the 100w vero vs the kind. I veg at 4K + the kind (3K-when there are more plants than lights, but plan to buy another 4K chibi to replace the kind). 100w running at various powers vegged that 50" Rasp D that's in flower now.

Over in the flower tent I have:
200w 3.5K (original fixture)
added 50w of 660nm that I don't think does much.
200w 3K (new fixture)

Anyway, when I veg a big ass plant under that Kind led that is all purply crazy red, I get a ton of fast growth and lower die off. Under the 4K 100w vero there is more penetration (single point and spread) to veg more plants, I don't get saggy lower leaves on large plants either.

Can I flower under 4K and veg under 3K. Yup. But there is some loss of efficiencies.

Also, if your going to be using the light outdoors, make sure you have all the necessary and proper wiring crap/connectors. Another plug for Dan is that his crap comes like that.
 
InTheShed said:
For flowering photos? I thought 3500K was more all-purpose.
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Interesting discussion.

My earlier comment was based on the 4 spectra presented in the post. Of those, I liked the 4000K. What does the 3500 spectrum look like?
:surf:
 
InTheShed said:
Thanks gang! These are the ones Rider included in the list:
SI-B8UZ91B20WW Samsung F-Series Gen3 100W FB24B double row led strip 3500K

Is that too old school? I haven't researched yet to know if they're LM561C or not. They already have like 3 model numbers in that description! I'm completely new to this part of the game:rolleyes:.

[here's the list from Rider in total if anyone has suggestions:
Digikey.com
SI-B8UZ91B20WW Samsung F-Series Gen3 100W FB24B double row led strip 3500K
3 x $48.07 = $144.21

Onlinecomponents.com
Mean Well HLG-320H-48A 320W LED driver
1 x $84.10 = $84.10

Figure about $50 in miscellaneous stuff to assemble. You'll end up with way more light and better coverage.
This design is working with the de facto standard of 35W per square foot for leds.
These components play really well together and return about 95% efficiency.

You'd need 12' of 1.5x1x0.125 Al u-channel, some thermal tape (which I can send you),
a standard 15A male cord plug, and some wire and wire nuts to put it all together.
No soldering required. There are lots of ways to make a single fixture. I chose to use all-thread just because it was easy.]
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Stay away from the double row strips, the single row strips requires more heatsink but you get a lot higher efficiency, and you can't run the double row strips as hard and the spread/flexibility is compromised.

The 1120mm (4') single row F-series strips are all right, but a bitch to work with and you won't really save anything over going with the 560mm strips.

However, I highly recommend the H inFlux strips, L04 or L06 in 3000K, but note that 4000K is as efficient as 5000K in the same series with a lot more red in the mix.

Digi-key is full of weird dead-ends, but you can find the actual units with a little effort and their parametric search function.

This is the H inFlux catalogue, so you can filter the different units, use only CCT and size/dimension to find what you need.
The 41mm W are double row, the 24mm W are single row and come in two types with different amounts of diodes - hence the different max currents and prices.

And ye olde F-series.

I think 6 of the 560mm strips would be fine for your needs, whether it's single row F-series or H inFlux L04 or L06.

There's also the Bridgelux EB2 strips, or the Vesta strips that have 2 row of different CCT diodes.

This is worth a read DIY LED Strip Build Designs for Samsung H-Series, F-Series, Q-Series, and Bridgelux EB Gen.2 - LED Gardener


InTheShed said:
Definitely bluer. Is 3500K a better start-to-finish than 3000K, particularly since my plants live outside during daylight hours?

Let me explain my grow to see if it helps. Every morning the plants go into the sun. During veg, every evening they go in the shed under the lights. When I decide to flip my photos, they go into the shed for 12 hours of darkness. So I'm waiting for my autos to finish (so I can get them max light 20/4) before I convert the shed to dark at night and flip the photos. During the winter I try not to run autos while I'm flowering photos.

What that means practically is that only autos will be flowered under these lights. The only time the photos will be under them during flower is if it's cloudy or raining. During veg, everything is under the lights at night.

Does that change any decisions about color temp?

Confused?
Click to expand...


No, get 3000K!

The higher the CCT, the higher the electrical efficiency.
The lower the CCT, the higher the photosynthetical efficiency.

AKA the redder the better :) Since the difference in electrical efficiency between the different CCT's is low when using high end Middle Power Diodes.


3500K is a WORSE start to finish than 3000K, you sacrifice red for blue, or in reality a few hours shorter veg for less bulk and potency ;)


Don't believe the shit Kind spews out to increase sales, it's just BS based on loose assumptions and non-comparative studies from the 70's...
Kind is just Mars Hydro in an Iphone cover, and the electrical efficiency is the same as HID, complete and utter garbage :)
Try asking them why they put yellow and green monodiodes in their lamps if they're not good for plants ;)
The mixed spectrum from most blurples is around 2700K, it's not some magical spectrum engineers spent countless hours tweaking just right, it's a handful of crappy components and a lot of marketing...
Watt for watt the PPFD willl be higher from high end white light LEDs, even the super cheap Citizen 1212 COBs will kill Kind and the other blurples.


The yellow/orange/green spectrum is a big part of the sun's output and plants do use these wavelenghts for both photosynthesis and for signalling the plant to do certain things, we've only scratched the surface of the science of plants and light and most of the stuff found online is commercial content.
Green wavelenghts will signal lower growth to strecth for light, and it's the wavelength that penetrates the canopy and the primary provider of photosynthesis for leaves/flowers in the shade.
 
PurpleGunRack said:
The mixed spectrum from most blurples is around 2700K, it's not some magical spectrum engineers spent countless hours tweaking just right, it's a handful of crappy components and a lot of marketing...
Watt for watt the PPFD willl be higher from high end white light LEDs, even the super cheap Citizen 1212 COBs will kill Kind and the other blurples.
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You read my mind.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
Ok Shed! I’m gonna need you to build a light and then just tell me what you did. Good meeting!:high-five:
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Will do :).
nobodyhere said:
if your going to be using the light outdoors, make sure you have all the necessary and proper wiring crap/connectors.
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Who said anything about using these outside?
PurpleGunRack said:
3500K is a WORSE start to finish than 3000K, you sacrifice red for blue, or in reality a few hours shorter veg for less bulk and potency ;)
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Amazing compendium of info there PGR! Thanks so much for putting all that in one post :thumb:. I'll go through the links tomorrow at work and take notes on what I find.

In terms of the best color temperature, I'm not sure if you saw my post on the outdoor/indoor aspect of this grow a few posts ago, which is to say these lights are a nighttime addition to daytime sunlight and will be used mostly to veg photos and autos, except for flowering autos at night in supplement to the daytime sun. Does that change your color temp recommendation at all?

Oh, and thanks for reading nobody's mind!
 
InTheShed said:
Will do :).

Who said anything about using these outside?

Amazing compendium of info there PGR! Thanks so much for putting all that in one post :thumb:. I'll go through the links tomorrow at work and take notes on what I find.

In terms of the best color temperature, I'm not sure if you saw my post on the outdoor/indoor aspect of this grow a few posts ago, which is to say these lights are a nighttime addition to daytime sunlight and will be used mostly to veg photos and autos, except for flowering autos at night in supplement to the daytime sun. Does that change your color temp recommendation at all?

Oh, and thanks for reading nobody's mind!
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No, i say aim for 3-3.5k with a dimmer.
 
InTheShed said:
Does that change your color temp recommendation at all?
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Nope, 3000K all the way :)

CraZysWeeD said:
Great you showed up @PurpleGunRack you think the inFlux is better? I have been thinking of getting a few to boost my Logics in the small tent.
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Yes, it's the best strip you can get and with LM301b diodes they're more efficient than the F-series that strips use LM561c diodes.
 
Interesting information. Maybe I will tap into some of this expertise for some strips in the new set up. I am gonna need a new setup for the veg tent I think.
 
PurpleGunRack said:
Nope, 3000K all the way :)
Yes, it's the best strip you can get and with LM301b diodes they're more efficient than the F-series that strips use LM561c diodes.
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Thanks again PGR! Research begins today...
Van Stank said:
Interesting information. Maybe I will tap into some of this expertise for some strips in the new set up. I am gonna need a new setup for the veg tent I think.
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Glad I can help Van! :)
CraZysWeeD said:
Great. Will order a few of those then. Thinking about water cooling them too. Just take U shaped aluminum like you and strapping a pipe along the U. :)
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh o_O
 
Ok problem!! I can’t get the light more than 20” above canopy.......
Is this going to be a problem!?!?
5366074B-2401-4F7F-BFB4-9ECD194E7738.jpeg
 
I always found these charts useful. :Namaste: Also keep in mind that 12 hours of tropical sun every day would probably not be a good thing.

HPSGraphPAR.jpg


post-10099-138186052468.gif
 
oops wrong thread.... sorry ! Thanks penny.
 
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