Indicas Grow & Experimenting Genetics Part II - Winter Indoor Organic Grow

[Danishoes21]

My take on fox tailing is that it's a sign of a mature plant. If you look at photos of my Bomb there was lots of it going on in the last week or two. From reading other journals and threads I've come upon many long-term growers who won't harvest until they see ample fox tailing. I figure they must know what they're talking about when they say the yield is more potent after fox tailing.

I couldn't agree more with you I've also read about excess N on late flower can cause it, or heat stress during late flowering, also the possibility that you have a dominant sativa trait... Many things but no compiling evidence of what causes this exactly. I will check tomorrow for signs of amber trichomes on the plant to see how mature she really is. They still have a long way to go thats what Im hoping for. The other curiosity just this one plant is showing early signs of fox tailing the rest seem regular.

Like no one can say for a fact if its good or bad, and what causes this effect...

 

[lovitonce]

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[Ranger275]

Howdy danishoes21,
I'm just coming indoor as a grower, and I've noticed that foxtailing seems to happen more in outdoor grows than indoor. I know outdoor guys who won't even break out the loupe until they see some. Not sure if the cause is wind, sun environment, but thought it might be relevant.

 

[Danishoes21]

I know that some Haze strains do fox tailing maybe someone that has grown a pure haze strain could confirm this?? Its either environmental or genetics.

 

[CA215]

Perfect timing.. took down some ssh crosses not too long ago, I noticed foxtailing to be quite consistant between all phenos, some more than others. My temps never went above 80f or under 65f, hps about 2ft~ from canopy. From the plants I have grown now I think you can get foxtailing from many different stimuli, heat, stress, genetics, maybe she didn't take to the last feeding too well, things of that nature. Ive noticed also, finding an airy foxtaily nug more than not indicates to me that the bud is seeded and is forming viable(nice hard,dense) and non-viable(hollow,light), or even the little dark specks that are found in the calyx. But this is not always the case. When we grew the freedomhaze we noticed knuckle-foxtail buds with no signs of seedage, just sensimilla. Bet it boils down to genetics, then environment.. typin out loud over here bud. Got my internet back dani will be stopping through more! take care rastaman

 

[Ranger275]

To further tangle the issue, it could be both. It could be a genetic predisposition to an environmental effect which may or may not manifest.
Speaking of effect, does anybody know how it affects THC-production?

 

[Danishoes21]

Perfect timing.. took down some ssh crosses not too long ago, I noticed foxtailing to be quite consistant between all phenos, some more than others. My temps never went above 80f or under 65f, hps about 2ft~ from canopy. From the plants I have grown now I think you can get foxtailing from many different stimuli, heat, stress, genetics, maybe she didn't take to the last feeding too well, things of that nature. Ive noticed also, finding an airy foxtaily nug more than not indicates to me that the bud is seeded and is forming viable(nice hard,dense) and non-viable(hollow,light), or even the little dark specks that are found in the calyx. But this is not always the case. When we grew the freedomhaze we noticed knuckle-foxtail buds with no signs of seedage, just sensimilla. Bet it boils down to genetics, then environment.. typin out loud over here bud. Got my internet back dani will be stopping through more! take care rastaman

Right on time brother CA


Glad to see your back around here, and wisdom words on the fox tailing, now on your experience did you like this cause/effect of fox tail bud? In my case here my temperatures are on avg low twenties in Celsius (lower 70's F.) Cfls are well spaced no signs of heat stress, the last watering with fertilizer was on the first of march. since then I just watered today plain water. But I did have this girls on a forced 13/11 light schedule for over 2 months, Now Im seeing nanners on the pheno with fox tailing bud. I pluck them all out every day I take care of then I really hope she makes it thru bloom and doesn't self pollinate all buds. But in general I like her traits I've never had a plant like this, I have also been checking Mexican Landraces (some threads out there on other sites) and see resembles a lot a strain they call Highland Oaxaca Gold. This mexican sativa also shows fox tailing and very similar traits the one I have. Not jumping into conclusion here, just thinking out loud

Stick around broda CA, hope everything is good around your area.

 

[Danishoes21]

Found this in a thread, the fox tailing on the Mexican Sativas they show on that site are incredible...

"Oaxaca Sativa

Mexico is a hugely diverse federal country, comprising 31 states. The state of Oaxaca, located along the Pacific Ocean in the southern part of the nation, is quite different from the rest of Mexico. It is a colorful place, where 16 different ethnic groups of indigenous people live side by side with the Spanish-descent whites, making a total population of 3 and a half million. The indigenous civilizations flourished around the 12-13th Century, establishing agriculture, fishing, mining, trading. In the 15th century the Aztecs conquered the area, soon to be toppled by the Spanish. When the Spanish troops conquered the area and settled, the agriculture of the area had a boost, and cannabis continued to flourish. In 1821 Mexico became independent from Spain, and since then Oaxaca has been on of the poorest and most underdeveloped states of the country, with a poor road network and limited links to the capital city. The area has several mountain ranges, and a main central valley, with an average altitude on the sea level of 1500 meters. The population lacks education, basic infrastructures and proper sanitation. Nevertheless the quality of life is slowly improving over the last 10-20 years. The main resource is agriculture, with a large production of coffee beans. Tourism is increasing, but remains marginal in the generation of income. Cannabis represents the most effective survival crop for the poorest people in the region.

Cannabis is present on the Oaxaca mountains since a very long time. Nobody knows exactly when it arrived, and from where. Some speculate that the first seeds were brought by the Spanish fleet in the 15th and 16th centuries, while others predate the appearance of cannabis to the first migrations of men from Asia into the American continent, around 20000-15000 years ago. What is sure is that by the time the Spanish conquered the area imposing their civilization, cannabis was being used by the local indigenous tribes for medicinal as well as religious purposes, together with a large number of other psychedelics. The central valley of Oaxaca is one of the most fertile areas of Latin America, and cannabis has been thriving here for very long, and nowadays the Oaxaca Sativa is considered one of the most famous Latin American landraces. It is a tall, lanky sativa, with long branches and long flower clusters, non-overlapping leaflets and a generally thin shape. The plants are usually planted very close to each others, preventing the formation of a conspicuous branch system. When the space between plants allows it, branches grow long and tend to spread out in a very horizontal fashion.

The buds grow long, not extremely compact, and covered in long hairs, turning orange to red very soon in the ripening process. The scent is minty and fresh, woody, with a fruity background that reminds of sweet mango. There is a sourness to it, and it translates very true to its scent after combustion. Flowering time is long, at 11-13 weeks, but the subtropical latitude ensures almost all-year round flowering possibilities. The Oaxaca Sativa belongs to the group of sub-tropical sativas that flower at any photoperiod under 13-14 hours of light, making it a very flexible genetic for many areas of the planet. The Oaxaca Sativa grows at any altitude between sea level and 1800 meters, and most of the times it is planted is small patches under the forest canopy. The limited amount of direct sunlight the plants receive in this particular setup is also responsible for the tall development and the stretchy attitude usually attributed to the landrace.

The first time the Oaxaca Sativa became famous worldwide was in the 1970s, when many American and Canadian travelers brought back seeds to the west coast of the US and Canada and started breeding them to obtain faster flowering versions of the landrace. The Oaxaca Sativa became a true hippie legend, one of the most sought-after strains during the endless University rallies and anti-war demonstrations of the 1970 throughout America and Europe. Some of the most famous cannabis breeders of the 1960s and 1970s, including the Haze Brothers and Neville, used the Oaxaca Sativa for some of their creations. To this day, the genes of the Oaxaca Sativa live on in famous strains like Neville's Haze, Super Silver Haze, Mexican Haze. The Oaxaca Sativa was at the base of the creation of pure Haze, the most famous sativa hybrid ever, in turn at the origin of hundreds of famous crosses available today..."

 

[Danishoes21]

Pheno #3 (first to show pistils and now fox tailing bud)
She is growing kinda freely very wild, showing some hermaphroditism you find some nanners on the pics I been taking care of this little problem on a daily basis.

Micros of the trichomes (just a few of them)
I looked all over the plant and this are the best shots I could take, over all trichomes still look very immature.

If in fact she is somehow related to the Oaxacan Sativa lineage according to the findings its 13-15 week flowering strain. 2 varieties I find resemblance is the Highland Oaxaca and the Guerrero. I could even say Chocolate thai. Some wild guesses

3 phenos BC Mango Cross (test#2 feminized 12/12 from seed)

 

[Danishoes21]

Hi there guys

So I have been reading out there about this crazy sativa traits from Mexico, I really want to post this 2 images I find show exactly the type of tailing this strong wild strains do. The information is vast, this growers have been posting information since 2006, they also talk a lot about DJ Shorts famous BB traits and how the Oaxaca genetics is present in most of his strains. Really amazing material,

"
Mr. Alkaline
Here is that Highland Mexican x True Blueberry that Perhaps threw up in the thread in August 2007. He just took the shots and smoked the bubble, which is why there were’nt any pics of growth progression. –This guy has amazing skill and just really knows how to capture that bubble! –I’m still waiting for him to chime in and tell me if Chimera bred this to be Comfortable/ Energetic/Psychedelic or what? Point is that it is untried, underestimated and very much similar to that which w seek, and…the pedigree of Original Flo!

Nobody Knew who Gentlemanfarmer was February of 2007, this guy just all-of-a sudden showed up having grown two packs of F13, coming up with like a 1 in 250 pheno..it is just ridiculous to believe he was telling the truth…at first I thought he was DJ Short with a pic of a parent of Flo…it was just crazy how a guy ended up with an Electric Day Brightener, sooo Flo Dominant…so pleasant…and with purple tinted resin, damn….who would’nt love to get a clone of that to breed with! Just another great example that DJ’s stuff came from GREATNESS and still is great. (People needa shut up) I don’t think DJ Loses! – OH Well, nice Oaxacan Likenesses, don’t ya think?

"

The post here is just to pass information, its not intended to promote any names or brands.

 

[SweetSue]

Incredible danishoes. It's always so interesting at your table. Thank you.

 

[Danishoes21]

Incredible danishoes. It's always so interesting at your table. Thank you.

Sue thanks for stopping by I would really love to post all kinds of pics and info from all the stuff I find online, but Im concerned with all the copyrights and you know all the stuff they told us to read before (guidelines) BUT NEVER DID.

I do what I can to demystify this whole "KILL the HERMIE" "KILL the Male" once you get to actually see what others are growing out there, you can see how enormous Cannabis varieties are and what to expect from this plant once you push her to the limits.

I wish my plant ends up like this. I Wish!!

 

[Danishoes21]

Random Garden Shots. Slow Process but they seem to be headed in the right direction.

 

[b.real]

getting there. that purple sativa heavy plants looks wild. I want a taste of her.

 

[lovitonce]

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#yourawesome

 

[CA215]

With my experience now, I would say the fox tailing really isn't an issue if you don't mind trimming. If you are one who loves to just plow through your trimming an get it done, foxtaily buds aren't for you.. personal preference and patience is key here. I'll admit I trim very aggressive and the fox taily buds usually get used in cooking due to my lack of time, plus my broken body won't allow for extended sitting time. Another word of caution, I personally get a real zingy, almost paranoia driven feeling from ssh, some good stuff if you wanted to go on a jog lol.. run away from your fears!

In the case of your plants I think you are going about it right, stay on them nanners surely, daily inspections. They sure do look like they have some haze qualities in them buddy. With the lower temps are your pots getting at all dry or staying a bit soggy?

& I have also heard the Oaxaca being taken to 18 weeks flower.. YIKES! think my heart would pump out of my chest! Sheesh.

keep it green d

 

[BubbaHoTep]

Some killer info here danish. Never would have tried to let a lady foxtail, but seems like it might be worth the wait.

Ladies are lookin' lush! Keep up the good work!

 

[Danishoes21]

getting there. that purple sativa heavy plants looks wild. I want a taste of her.

Getting there, still a lot left... The 2 pics there are nothing compared to the hundreds others they have, they talk about Oaxaca genes and how the altitude in this area manage to completely separate the traits from the same strain, (Lowland and Highland Oaxaca). Also very interesting they say that this wild landrace strain always grow hermaphrodites, and that even Dj Short himself could never stabilize this genes. Just goggle The Highland Oaxaca Thread, you will see some crazy buds.

...........
#yourawesome

With my experience now, I would say the fox tailing really isn't an issue if you don't mind trimming. If you are one who loves to just plow through your trimming an get it done, foxtaily buds aren't for you.. personal preference and patience is key here. I'll admit I trim very aggressive and the fox taily buds usually get used in cooking due to my lack of time, plus my broken body won't allow for extended sitting time. Another word of caution, I personally get a real zingy, almost paranoia driven feeling from ssh, some good stuff if you wanted to go on a jog lol.. run away from your fears!

In the case of your plants I think you are going about it right, stay on them nanners surely, daily inspections. They sure do look like they have some haze qualities in them buddy. With the lower temps are your pots getting at all dry or staying a bit soggy?

& I have also heard the Oaxaca being taken to 18 weeks flower.. YIKES! think my heart would pump out of my chest! Sheesh.

keep it green d

Wise words broda CA
Im still new at this growing game, but after I successfully harvest last summer meds, mostly Sativas, I can't get enough of this felling, Its uplifting like I never felt before, Im use to the heavy indica dominant of the local market, here in Canada slim to none grow Sativas, to tall, to needy, takes for ever, small the yield, no profit. Nanners are a b*tch but its only this particular plant that is doing this, the rest are fine. Cold temps yeah Im freezing these ladies lower 70's the pots get lose the weight ever two days... but I have dry periods. Im really giving this girls all the stress they can find. One conclusion Im leaning towards is that this plant is showing nanners because of the photoperiod times, lets say this is a 100% pure landrace grown for years at a natural photoperiod the goes from 13 to 11 all year round, having a plant pre flower at 14-10 might cause light shock like it would if the lights are out and you flash a light for and extra hour?? could this make sense ?

Im glad to have you around, I think you are the only one that has posted info about Sativas in general, I appreciate your input. Also I hope its not a 18 week flower... I looking end of April harvest I want this meds. CA when would you say its a good time to pollinate?? seeds take like 45 days?

Some killer info here danish. Never would have tried to let a lady foxtail, but seems like it might be worth the wait.

Ladies are lookin' lush! Keep up the good work!

Fox tailing its a dilemma... the only bad thing is the trimming like CA said, you need patience thats all. If in fact the fox tailing is somewhat more inclined towards genetics rather than environment, then its a good thing to have a strain show their true genetics. Now if its environmental then you have to find out what is causing it, so far there is only speculations on how this happens... I just hope they can flower properly.

 

[CA215]

Wise words broda CA
Im still new at this growing game, but after I successfully harvest last summer meds, mostly Sativas, I can't get enough of this felling, Its uplifting like I never felt before, Im use to the heavy indica dominant of the local market, here in Canada slim to none grow Sativas, to tall, to needy, takes for ever, small the yield, no profit. Nanners are a b*tch but its only this particular plant that is doing this, the rest are fine. Cold temps yeah Im freezing these ladies lower 70's the pots get lose the weight ever two days... but I have dry periods. Im really giving this girls all the stress they can find. One conclusion Im leaning towards is that this plant is showing nanners because of the photoperiod times, lets say this is a 100% pure landrace grown for years at a natural photoperiod the goes from 13 to 11 all year round, having a plant pre flower at 14-10 might cause light shock like it would if the lights are out and you flash a light for and extra hour?? could this make sense ?

Im glad to have you around, I think you are the only one that has posted info about Sativas in general, I appreciate your input. Also I hope its not a 18 week flower... I looking end of April harvest I want this meds. CA when would you say its a good time to pollinate?? seeds take like 45 days?

I am still new to growing too brotha we will all progress together

Hmm, with the photoperiod topic, since we don't have an idea on her specific lineage it's hard to debate. But I could see a plant that has "grown up" in a specific area for decades/centuries could have some stress in a new location. Then I would assume the plant would also not take well to any reduction in light. Seeing as she is a sativa dominant a nice warm room would suite her well, I'd say the cold nights may be giving her some stress.

Then we could even get into your lights, their spectrums versus the spectrums they once soaked in back home Double check, triple check your room for light leaks also, this is something I have grown accustomed to, any new equipment put around the girls, make sure you check em for any leds. So many things to think about when we begin talking about stress with our ops/plants.

I have not done any breeding yet, but from what I have read 45 days would be a good number to let the seeds fully develop, maybe even longer. But I would suggest having an idea on how long the plant takes to flower and some of her characteristics. Depending on the strain and her tendencies, you are going to want to let your females flower out for a good 2-3 weeks allowing for a good amount of pistils to form. Introduce your male plant/pollen from there on regularly to ensure you are getting some real seedy nugs. Thinkin about making some of your own beans there d?!

Hope you get these babes down by 420 take care

 

[Danishoes21]

That could make more sense the low temps causing some sort of stress giving birth to nanners. But check this out CA, the reason why I have them under low temps is to try to get them to adapt (by force) to the cold days of late October/Early November thats when this ladies most def are gonna be on their last weeks of Outdoor flowering (Yeah I'm planning to grow the seeds I get from here, this summer if everything goes as planed...)

I will check the whole setup to be 200% sure there is no light coming in. Also clean and disinfect with bleach, so its brand new. So for the seeds what Im gonna do is probably start pollinating the last week of this month, so hopefully the seeds are good by the end of April.

Breeding if I only knew what I was doing... (Im gonna test out if frozen pollen can last a year and still be active). Im messing with this plants trying to see if I can make myself some Sativa dominant strains suited for Northern latitudes, if that is even possible. I have a lot of these seeds from Mexico and Jamaica, I just gotta learn how to use them lol