In The Lab

[Doc Bud]

Doc, thinking about Graytail's post last night about the soil, I'm wondering if it's as simple as not using Transplant often enough in veg? I use TransWater between drenches, so the plants are always getting a spot of both Trans and Tea with each watering, but only one full Transplant drench in veg.

YES!!! This is one of the things I've been saying repeatedly lately:

The plants must have Transplant in veg. We alternate between GE and Trans all through the grow cycle. If the biota in the soil get used to no organic nitrogen and never get any Transplant, two things will happen:

1. root health will drop off, because they aren't getting any new food from the soil, just a lot of voltage from the GE.
2. biota will be used to nothing but what's in the soil and won't have the right colonization to accept the CAT drench which is mostly Transplant

Top this off with too frequent spraying and we've got trouble. Especially with a rootball that is substandard from a fabric pot that was transplanted too early.

Again, I use the EXACT same products, from the exact same totes that all of you do. I have clients with LARGE grows and they use the same stuff we all do.

I believe a subset of "poll the audience" directions are floating around out there....like no Transplant in veg....and coupled with the other things I've mentioned repeatedly, it's causing trouble for a few.

As for Duggan's problem, his soil has too many runs on it. Next run with fresh soil and he'll be back on his game like never before.

 

[SweetSue]

Whew! I'm glad to here you're thinking about not being concerned as much....a page ago it was a "devastating" problem.

User error is nearly always the trouble. You can blame me for the directions....but seriously, no matter how I write them someone has problems understanding something.

What might be happening is that people are all copying eachother and forgetting about the simple stuff.....like using Transplant in veg, or using Snake Oil every time, instead of twice, etc.

It would make this easier if you could find a way to communicate with me without the snark.

I'll ask again. Do we need to include a full Transplant drench more often than once during the veg cycle? If this is the case, that's an easy fix. I use TransWater between drenches, so my plants are getting Transplant. Is it possibly not enough.

Sorry, we crossed our posts.

Whew! That it could be this easy.

Thank you Doc. Let me get out of your eyesight again. Have a wonderful day.

 

[Doc Bud]

Yes I am Doc, but according to my records, only once before flip. The procedure in veg is to let them dry out, which limits the number of drenches. How much of a concern would this be? If I'm needing to schedule more in, I'll do so in future.

I would also appreciate it if you took me a little more seriously Doc. We're trying to find a solution, not attack the system. Attacking my character does nothing to help the situation.

Sue, with all sincerity, I was attacked by you. You also made some false statements about my products.

Here I am, answering any and all questions and desperately looking to find the solutions for people. I hold by the hand anyone who asks. That's pretty good product support if you ask me.

I want everyone to succeed....desperately. I want nothing more than your success.

You should be alternating Transplant and GE throughout the entire grow, including and especially in the veg cycle. That alone could be your problem, because Transplant is root food.....GE is stem and leaf food.....these are things we've talked about for years.

If you have fabric pots AND you forget Transplant.....you've got trouble coming from substandard roots.

These are the two common factors with at least half the problems.

 

[DrZiggy]

for those that want to see what a plant grown without CAT looks like..still going..

and a plant that got 3.5 CAT treatments, on and off..still going...

some of my cannabis i just harvested is on the airy side due to late and more than suggested (Doc recommends and has mentioned to finish on GE)...


Again, if you follow a rogue misfit mad scientist 3 year student know that
Your Miles May Vary(YMMV)


edit..these are being grown outdoors..the non CAT one is in a qt sized plastic tomato box i used for giggles.
some roots have exited the small container and entered the garden soil(Kit soil)
I didn't use CAT on her because it was in such a small container..

Container size makes a huge difference..

 

[DopyLemontree]

I noted and posted yesterday when Gazoo posted the exact instructions he was following in Duggan thread, that those were not Docs instructions, but were from years ago and written by MaxYields, but was endorsed by Doc as a Great baseline. See pic

My first grow last year I followed the MaxYield instructions and burnt up my plants...still harvested buds, but cooked the leaves. Then everyone said to follow Docs newest instructions, which I did. Although I needed some some more detail than described in the instructions, I always found it here...just had to ask Doc.

 

[SweetSue]

You have my apologies Doc. I'll be more careful about my excitement in the future. I appreciate the thoughts, and I'll be amending my drench schedules for future grows.

You assumed I was attacking you, and that was never the case. Had you followed the conversation without the judgemental ear you'd have heard an advocate for the others looking for solutions. It's so easy to misread the intent in a digital field. I happen to be one of your biggest cheerleaders for the kit, but I have yet to tell anyone else how to use your products in a way that varies from your own instructions.

Whether you believe it or not Doc, I'm as interested in your success as you are.

Sue, with all sincerity, I was attacked by you. You also made some false statements about my products.

Here I am, answering any and all questions and desperately looking to find the solutions for people. I hold by the hand anyone who asks. That's pretty good product support if you ask me.

I want everyone to succeed....desperately. I want nothing more than your success.

You should be alternating Transplant and GE throughout the entire grow, including and especially in the veg cycle. That alone could be your problem, because Transplant is root food.....GE is stem and leaf food.....these are things we've talked about for years.

If you have fabric pots AND you forget Transplant.....you've got trouble coming from substandard roots.

These are the two common factors with at least half the problems.

 

[DopyLemontree]

Ziggs....morning bud!
These issues a lot of us are having have zero to do with "plant...pot....enviro"...

Come on Duggan? That's a bold statement. You're really ready to say it's the kit hands down, and not the numerous other possibilities. I think your putting the horse before the carriage. We need to look at everything with a suspicious eye.

 

[Buckshot317]

Since the 80's I've used 20 different nute formulas. Everyone of them has grown nice plants. It's almost always user error. Applying to much, or wrong timing. Since there's only just couple people outta idk how many are having problems. Pretty much excludes the kit as problem.

I'm happy so far, I'm getting better results with a whole lot less bottles to mess with. I've also learned less is more when it comes to gardening

 

[TripleBeam]

Thank you Ziggy. I walk among all these cultivating geniuses. We knew eventually it'd wear off on me. I grow with the kit, so my expectation is I'll be producing top-quality sativas. Sure, I also grow with RX Green Solutions, but you notice I didn't leave the kit behind like I initially talked of doing? The Carnival I'm smoking came from kit soil, and it's my best produce so far. I have no intention of walking away.

Curiously, the bottom region of the Malawi is unaffected by the distress. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to chop the top and let the bottom part ride it out.

Any thoughts on this?

If it was my plant, I would just finish it out.

 

[DopyLemontree]

Doc,

While we are discussing kit components, I feel I have learned much this grow about GE and TP, specifically what they do and how to manipulate them. My front most question now is Tea. What can you teach me about Tea? Like what it does, how it works, when to use or not, symptoms of over/ under use, any precautions?
Thank you Sir!

 

[overlord]

Ziggs....morning bud!
These issues a lot of us are having have zero to do with "plant...pot....enviro"...

Didn't you use the exact same bottles of Docs products on your last grow with success? Sue is having issues on her 2nd run soil, you on your third, so I am not even sure if it has anything to do with which run your on. Shiggity started having problems with one plant under too much light, but he added C02 and the plant started clearing up. I think there are so many variables with each grower we can't jump to conclusions.

 

[Graytail]

Lets all remember why and how this system works.

We let the soil life run the show. Healthy, balanced soil life will always be better than anything we can do because it's hooked up directly to the plant. It lives and breathes with the plant, on an immediate basis. We feed the soil life, or ... we do our best to feed the soil life. But these are dynamic living populations, containing several different types of life, and hundreds of variations. And we never really know what's going on in there.

We pour in some of this and that, and we spray this and that on the leaves, because that "works" almost all the time. And sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a particular population that produces a particular mineral byproduct, has a party. They paint the town red and flood the soil with their waste mineral compounds. We find out when the plant goes ugly. But then what? We only have crude tools. We can encourage one set of biota or another, but not individually.

The best solution should logically be a good flush and a reset with a Rescue drench. For most of us, that's not practical. We don't have the room to pour and drain, or the strength to move them, or the available water. But that's the right thinking process. The biota population is out of tune and fighting each other. If we can remove the impediment and reset, that's a good start.

The roots call for nutrition from their exudates. If one population is either huge or feeble, the wrong thing happens - the roots either get a LOT more than they asked for, or there's only a feeble response from the targeted population. And it's very difficult for us to know why.

 

[Doc Bud]

Doc, thinking about Graytail's post last night about the soil, I'm wondering if it's as simple as not using Transplant often enough in veg? I use TransWater between drenches, so the plants are always getting a spot of both Trans and Tea with each watering, but only one full Transplant drench in veg.

I don't know if I answered this or not...but I'll answer it again for good measure:

Yes! If you neglect Transplant in veg, you'll have problems with the Cat Drench. Transwater is in ADDITION to normal alternating drench schedule.

This is precisely why I frequently mention Rescue Drench....which is a strong (very strong) Transplant Drench designed to recolonize roots that have stopped living on friendly terms with the soil.

If you neglect Transplant in veg, you must use GE the entire grow or problems will occur when you switch to organic nitrogen.

 

[Doc Bud]

You have my apologies Doc. I'll be more careful about my excitement in the future. I appreciate the thoughts, and I'll be amending my drench schedules for future grows.

You assumed I was attacking you, and that was never the case. Had you followed the conversation without the judgemental ear you'd have heard an advocate for the others looking for solutions. It's so easy to misread the intent in a digital field. I happen to be one of your biggest cheerleaders for the kit, but I have yet to tell anyone else how to use your products in a way that varies from your own instructions.

Whether you believe it or not Doc, I'm as interested in your success as you are.

Apology accepted.

Now, let's figure out these issues and get back to fake plants.

 

[Gazoo]

After reading all this
I am out, I did the deed and KILLED them.

No time for this. I will try once more in all plastic

 

[walleye]

Transplant: Should be used during the bloom phase alternating with Growth Energy....That always confuses me when I read it in Docs' instructions. Nothing about using in veg. I have not been using trans in veg this last grow cause I keep reading that! Should that be re-written or am I still confused!

 

[DrZiggy]

Also make sure you rinse your fabric pots well, after each grow..they can and do accumulate a lot of salts.

 

[Doc Bud]

You have my apologies Doc. I'll be more careful about my excitement in the future. I appreciate the thoughts, and I'll be amending my drench schedules for future grows.

You assumed I was attacking you, and that was never the case. Had you followed the conversation without the judgemental ear you'd have heard an advocate for the others looking for solutions. It's so easy to misread the intent in a digital field. I happen to be one of your biggest cheerleaders for the kit, but I have yet to tell anyone else how to use your products in a way that varies from your own instructions.

Whether you believe it or not Doc, I'm as interested in your success as you are.

Apology accepted!

Let's get to the bottom of these issues and resume growing great cannabis. Here's what I'm dealing with presently, with third run soil and foliars every 2 weeks. Grape Ape is a strain that likes the 3rd run.

I use the same products you guys use except:

veg in 1 gallon plastics
bloom in 7 gallon plastics
alternate drenches throughout the grow cycle
environment is "perfect" with slight tweaks here and there for a week, or even a few days at a time.

 

[Doc Bud]

Doc,

While we are discussing kit components, I feel I have learned much this grow about GE and TP, specifically what they do and how to manipulate them. My front most question now is Tea. What can you teach me about Tea? Like what it does, how it works, when to use or not, symptoms of over/ under use, any precautions?
Thank you Sir!

Tea is a product derived exclusively from natural humates. These deposits are LOADED with beneficials and of course humic acids and other fractured polyhydroxy acids....all naturally occurring.

Tea is named "tea" because it works just like a brewed compost/worm tea, except better because:

1. no pathogens possible
2. humic acid
3. uniform consistency so it works with fertigation and Dosatrons, etc.
4. Requires no brewing and no extra work
5. Has more beneficials in it than anything I've seen or worked with before

We use it to keep the microbial populations high and the humic acid helps with all kinds of things.

 

[Doc Bud]

After reading all this
I am out, I did the deed and KILLED them.

No time for this. I will try once more in all plastic

Please let me help you this time. Seriously, just you and me....we'll all learn from it. I want to literally help you with every drench and spray so that YOU succeed and others watching can learn.

Deal?