Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

sfhaze said:
Hey Wheelo, I have the exact same clones going side by side - both with LEDs, and the only variable was the heat. The warmer ones grow much faster. Maybe it's a LED thing, I don't know, but I have problems with the plants on the lower shelf without the heating pad. I was getting down to maybe 70F, so maybe 75F is okay - but 80F is better.

I use voodoo juice (it's great) maybe the temps help the bacteria.
Click to expand...

thats good to know sf, like i said, in the absence of scientific data, do what the people who are experienced have found out works by trial and error. . . but that's just for your system keep in mind, might very for others. best is to sample all the people with that type system and take an average. i like to be in the low 80's too, but high 70's works well also. obviously i'm not using LED though.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Great update SS, love your pics. pistils popping is always a beautiful sight to see..
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

WheeloFortune said:
thats good to know sf, like i said, in the absence of scientific data, do what the people who are experienced have found out works by trial and error. . . but that's just for your system keep in mind, might very for others. best is to sample all the people with that type system and take an average.
Click to expand...

Right on.... Also, you said you like to be at about 80F.

The symptom is that the lowest fan leaves towards the end of flowering would turn a little yellow, and the stem (of the fan leaf) would turn purple. As flowering continues, the effect would move up and start to effect the next set of fan leaves. It never got any further up, because it was time to harvest. Another exactly the same clone, didn't do that and yielded more.

I agree cold water holds more o2, I always use cool water that has been run with an air stone over night. But maybe o2 doesn't really last all that long in soil anyway, regardless of the heat. I don't know, I'm just reporting what I've seen.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Setting Sun said:
day 17 bloom


IMG_4707.JPG




IMG_46672.JPG

IMG_46722.JPG


IMG_46751.JPG

IMG_46941.JPG


IMG_4684.JPG


IMG_4686.JPG

IMG_4698.JPG

IMG_4706.JPG

IMG_4685.JPG

IMG_4700.JPG


IMG_4687.JPG

IMG_4691.JPG



I would like to bring an issue up for discussion. It has to do with plants doing better with higher temps under LED's than under HID's, especially during flowering. It has been suggested that I raise my ambient temps with lights on from 75F to at least 80F, the reasoning being that plants will yield more with temps of at least 80F.

Does anyone have any experience with this or thoughts? I can raise my ambient temps easily with my space heater, just mo' money, but I'm more than willing if it's going to make a difference.

thanks for following!
Click to expand...

Hey SS
Great job so far keeping things as even as possible. You`re going to have a hard time with 4 plants over 2`. I was only able to get 11 plants like yours under 3 panels with the light at 6`. I told everyone as soon as we set up the lights that we were dissapointed that I didn`t order another light. HGL went on to start telling people that it takes 4 panels instead of 3 to compare to a 1000 w for coverage... we just finished taking down our second attempt with them and could only cover a 40`X 30`canopy and would need another 2 panels to cover a 4x4 table for a total of 6 panels.....now here`s another selling point of theirs out the window...85 degrees is even better and as you see you`re having to turn on the heat to accomplish that...ironic isn`t it?
You can tell a difference in the plants despite the coverage problem with the HGL lights.
I personally only use to grow with a 1000w but these panels are supose to be like a 400w
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

scumbragger said:
Hey SS
Great job so far keeping things as even as possible. You`re going to have a hard time with 4 plants over 2`.
Click to expand...

4 plants is definitely going to be a challenge.

85 degrees is even better and as you see you`re having to turn on the heat to accomplish that...ironic isn`t it?
Click to expand...

It would be ironic, but I would not normally be running these lights in the winter. Unfortunately, that's how the timing went. My last electric bill was $200 higher than usual, and a fraction of that was the lights. In a perverse and costly sort of way, it definitely demonstrates the lower running temps ;).


I personally only use to grow with a 1000w but these panels are supose to be like a 400w...here's 400w to compare to when you're done...good luck with the rest of your grow!:peace:
400w HPS, 3 Topped Plants
Click to expand...

I maintain a healthy amount of skepticism for manufacturer's claims, no matter what the product. That's why I have two tents ;). I'm much more interested in whether these LED's are suitable for *my* needs, and if I can pull at least 1.5oz per plant in this grow from either of these lights, they will have met my personal criteria for being a viable option, especially in the summer.

thanks brother!
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Hey SS, I like to start adding either Sweet, or Budcandy about now. Budcandy is a little better, but molasses most likely works just as well for a lot lower cost. It really improves the taste of the final product.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Wow, lots of great discussion on ambient temps and soil temps!

It's unfortunate that there haven't been any formal studies done with cannabis that we're aware of.

Making decisions based on anecdotal and personal experience has always made me uncomfortable. Not saying that I discount that type of data entirely, but when I make important decisions, I like to go with what works most of the time for a significant number of people, and I guess that question has not been answered definitively, if indeed it can be answered definitively given the number of variables involved, especially the issue of strain.

the study cited by bmarduk that discounts increased temps is helpful, even though it's not cannabis-specific, the same type of plants were studied.

The personal experience submissions that temps above 75F increase yield are anecdotal, yet provided by growers whose opinions I respect.

Not really sure what to do.

That strain makes a difference seems very logical to me, and the strain I'm growing tolerates a wide range of temperatures.

I don't think raising the temp a few degrees is going to do any harm, but I'm going to keep things as they are for now and see if I can find any additional data or studies.

Now, the soil temp issue is another good one.

I started this grow out with 20 X 20" heating mats in each tent. This was before I started using the space heater, and I was using the mats to keep soil temps at around 72F.

I believe Ed Rosenthal recommends 72F as the ideal temp for soil.

When I started using the space heater, my soil temps went above 80F, and I became concerned that the root zone would not do well up that high, so I got rid of the mats.

If low 80's temps are beneficial to roots, I could certainly put the mats back, although only a corner of each pot would be sitting directly on them now, as I have to spread the pots out more.

Each mat is 40w, so 80 more watts would not be as costly as cranking up the space heater, although in for a penny in for a pound at this point ;).

good stuff!

maybe somewhere down the line I can do a temperature differential comparison with the same strain and see what happens.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

sfhaze said:
I use one of those heating pads sold for seedlings on my lower shelf. The upper shelf is heated by the light below. It's the roots that benefit most from the higher temp, so I suggest you leave the room temp alone, but add heating pads under the plants.

One pad is most likely enough, but you can overlap them if you want a bit more. Most Hardware stores sell IR temperature sensors, about $75, they let you quickly measure the temp of a small spot. I'd try to get the pots to 80F.
Click to expand...

I noticed when I was using the mats, that the temp of the soil would be significantly higher at the bottom of the pots and would decrease going up.

I used soil thermometers for these measurements, although I now also have an IR spot sensor.

Where do you take your measurements?

sfhaze said:
Hey SS, I like to start adding either Sweet, or Budcandy about now. Budcandy is a little better, but molasses most likely works just as well for a lot lower cost. It really improves the taste of the final product.
Click to expand...


I've used molasses before with good results, but I just forgot to add it to the nute list for this grow.

If there are no objections, I would like to add it to the nute regimen at 1 Tbsp per gallon. I may discontinue the Cal-Mag as molasses has those minerals in addition to the carbs and flavor it imparts.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

As long as the plants are treated equally I don't see how anyone can object. Although I have seen varying opinions and unique insights throughout this grow, so i'm sure someone will prove me wrong! :peace:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Wow, Molasses 1 tbsp per gl? My buddy was using it at one bottle per 5 gl in an outdoor grow last summer. He read about it and wasn’t sure what amount to use.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Yes, there is a big temperature gradient. I think that may be good since the plant will naturally make use of the higher heat if it helps, and use the cooler soil for what works best at that temp. Back to your question, I'm at 90F at the base and 70F at the top right now since my air is about 70F right now. The air warms up during the day - I may be up to 95F at the highest at the base during the day.

I don't have A/C, and the steam heat only runs at night, so I have to keep close check on the room temp - open windows in the summer and turn off the heat pad. I only added the heat pad to the bottom after I noticed problems that could only be from the root temperature difference, my upper shelf is heated by the light for the bottom shelf, but there is lots of air flow between the shelves. I'm way under 75F at times, so it might not be an issue at 75F.

This may be a LED thing, with HPS everyone is constantly fighting the heat - the air gets hot and the tops of the plants are heated. In that environment having cooler roots might help. LEDs run cool in comparison so with them adding heat may be helpful. Part of what this grow is all about is seeing if LEDs are practical solutions, but they are less helpful if you have to heat the room to 80F anyway.

At 75F you will likely be okay whatever you decide, maybe it's something you can play with on the next run...
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

i was told to run my temps higher also, and when i did i got fluffier buds. 78F is where i am keeping mine now on.
let me explain this to you, the company's that claim this because of testing but all of those test were running co2!!! so the higher temps do better with co2. when i question the company's about this they said the co2 dosent make a diff with higher temps ten if you were not running co2. BS!! i will call BS until i see proof that without co2 the temps should be that high. higher temps give you stretched plants with fluffy runny buds. this is just what i found with my led grows. ive used gravity bud hardener and still got fluffy buds with those temps. i am now running my 600w led just like i do with HID and keeping the temps 75-78F. ill let you know how it works out.

i spent allot of extra money running heater to get the temps to 85F, i would have been better off and cheaper to run my 1000w hps.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

That's no good dude. I have been being told the same thing. high 80s, and I am thinking damn, that's why I don't use hPS cuz it puts me in the 90s, to high 80s.

I would think anything between mid 70s and low 80s would work. Like you say irish, 78F or so. They survive the summer heat, but we don't know what their roots are doing under the soil, ya know? They could be FEET in the ground, but I am no expert.

I would think you could handle higher temps, with lower root temps. I dunno~ Fine lines we talking here....fine lines...

I think high 80s is too hot though, and I didn't notice fluffy buds, but I did notice more LEAF to bud ratio.

Crazy...so what are you running right now temp wise Irish?

-Go
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

go green said:
That's no good dude. I have been being told the same thing. high 80s, and I am thinking damn, that's why I don't use hPS cuz it puts me in the 90s, to high 80s.

I would think anything between mid 70s and low 80s would work. Like you say irish, 78F or so. They survive the summer heat, but we don't know what their roots are doing under the soil, ya know? They could be FEET in the ground, but I am no expert.

I would think you could handle higher temps, with lower root temps. I dunno~ Fine lines we talking here....fine lines...

I think high 80s is too hot though, and I didn't notice fluffy buds, but I did notice more LEAF to bud ratio.

Crazy...so what are you running right now temp wise Irish?

-Go
Click to expand...

right now 78F* and i am going to try to keep it their and see what happens. every one remember those things i was saying about the temps were just my opinion. dosent mean i am right
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

onthe420train said:
IDK, HSS looks to have more explosive (and healthier) new growth at this point but its still a close run
Click to expand...

I had to leave town for a couple of days and got back a few hours ago.

Buds are forming on both groups, and I'd be hard-pressed to say one group was ahead of the other.

The different growth patterns makes it a bit difficult to visually estimate which group is demonstrating more bloom action, but when all is said and done, the scales will have no problem with that ;).

thanks man, I appreciate your comments and observations ;)
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

bmarduk said:
Thanx, go green, I was checking nurseries, not online. Hardly looked instead of looking hard.:thankyou:
Click to expand...

Credit should go to borntorun for the cable find ;).


"The thermal optimum in soil for root/shoot balance is normally 5-10 degress F above ambient air temp."
Click to expand...

That's interesting because it conflicts with Ed Rosenthal's recommendation of 72F as the ideal soil temp, which would dictate an ambient temp of 62-67F.

With all due respect to Ed Rosenthal, he's not the final authority on everything green in my book because *nobody* is, but could you substantiate the above quote?

I'd be very interested in higher root temps since I could achieve gains without too much trouble or expense.

"I agree with you that I would rather use science that anecdotal evidence, but in the absence of that, anecdotal evidence is better than none at all, especially when coming from reputable growers."
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
 
Back
Top Bottom