Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Setting Sun said:
The only solutions I can come up with to compensate for the HGL's smaller sweet spot are to raise the light or remove two plants.

Removing two plants isn't an option.

thanks papa g!
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If the light is only capable of flowering 2 plants, its gram/watt average isn't going to be very good. That's a drawback for sure.....IF it turns out that way.

I keep having this picture in my mind, where a big truck full of LED panels gets a flat tire, and the driver says, "Can you take 12 of these things?"

Then, out of the 12 LED's I make a valley of panels, about 40 inches wide, with the panels oriendted vertically, facing eachother, with two panels capping each end, all about 2 feet off the ground. Over that valley of LED's I run a single 1000watt HPS on a mover and grow 8 plants.

Then, I woke up and had to get ready for work.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

DocBud said:
If the light is only capable of flowering 2 plants, its gram/watt average isn't going to be very good. That's a drawback for sure.....IF it turns out that way.

I keep having this picture in my mind, where a big truck full of LED panels gets a flat tire, and the driver says, "Can you take 12 of these things?"

Then, out of the 12 LED's I make a valley of panels, about 40 inches wide, with the panels oriendted vertically, facing eachother, with two panels capping each end, all about 2 feet off the ground. Over that valley of LED's I run a single 1000watt HPS on a mover and grow 8 plants.

Then, I woke up and had to get ready for work.
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Doc,
It sounds like you should become a farmer when you retire from medicine.
Off topic - sort of - any thoughts on the AMA's revised policy toward cannabis? If I'm jacking this thread, would you mind continuing the conversation in a more appropriate forum (medical marijunana). I understand if you don't want to go there altogether.Thanks.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

hydronewbie said:
Doc,
It sounds like you should become a farmer when you retire from medicine.
Off topic - sort of - any thoughts on the AMA's revised policy toward cannabis? If I'm jacking this thread, would you mind continuing the conversation in a more appropriate forum (medical marijunana). I understand if you don't want to go there altogether.Thanks.
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Setting Sun won't mind if we keep it brief.....
I'm not a member of the AMA. However, I think things are moving in the right direction....but very slowly. When they start studying what cannabis can do for patients with insomnia, IBS, migraines and the like...then I'll start paying attention to the AMA.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

bmarduk said:
Nice work SS,

I've used SuperThrive throughout both growing phases and the only problem that I've had with it is that in certain big-bud strains the colas become so heavy that they have to be staked. I use 10 drops/gal. for veg and 1 drop/gal. for flowering to avoid this 'problem.'
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Sounds very reasonable to me.

Thanks for sharing your "problem" ;).

keep up the good work, glad it's almost time to 'Be carefull with that axe, Eugene."
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Indeed.

welcome brother!
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

day 17 bloom


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With the next pair of pics, I'm trying to show the difference in coverage of the HGL light at 6" above the canopy, and then moved up to 9".

HydroGrowLED has approved this change in order to gain more coverage. They said 9" would not be a problem, but would prefer that I keep the light below 12" if possible.

I'm happy about having this flexibility in positioning their light over the canopy, and I *think* I may be able to keep all 4 plants covered reasonably well within those parameters.

It's not easy to show differences in light coverage with pics, and I don't know how well these will reflect the difference, but in person, it's dramatic. Not only is the canopy covered more completely, but due to the additional clearance, there is now also more light being reflected off of the sides of the tent and down to the lower foliage.

First at 6" above the canopy and then 9".

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and now a little baby bud porn ;)

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Notice above the curled leaves are on the shady side away from the light. I think this issue should improve with the light repositioned.

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Both groups of plants are doing well and should be nearing the end of their stretch soon.

I would like to bring an issue up for discussion. It has to do with plants doing better with higher temps under LED's than under HID's, especially during flowering. It has been suggested that I raise my ambient temps with lights on from 75F to at least 80F, the reasoning being that plants will yield more with temps of at least 80F.

Does anyone have any experience with this or thoughts? I can raise my ambient temps easily with my space heater, just mo' money, but I'm more than willing if it's going to make a difference.

thanks for following!
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Seems like a good problem to have. If all else fails, you could ask volunteers to stand in the tent and stretch with the plants for 8 hours at a time. In fact, I will loan you my mother in-law. And you can keep her indefinitely. :biglaugh:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I use one of those heating pads sold for seedlings on my lower shelf. The upper shelf is heated by the light below. It's the roots that benefit most from the higher temp, so I suggest you leave the room temp alone, but add heating pads under the plants.

One pad is most likely enough, but you can overlap them if you want a bit more. Most Hardware stores sell IR temperature sensors, about $75, they let you quickly measure the temp of a small spot. I'd try to get the pots to 80F.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I can't say this is correct but I read somewhere on this site that when the roots get above 72F, they begin to lose their ability take up o2. And that water temps above 72F also begin to lose o2. :peace:
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

bmarduk said:
This is a response to the question of raising the temperature during flowering. The following is a quote from Plant Physiology [4th edition] by Salisbury & Ross 1992, Section 2 pgs 261-262. "The effects of temperature on photosynthesis depends on the species, the environmental conditions under which the plant was grown, and the environmental conditions during measurement. Normal temperature increases have little influence on the light-driven split of H2O or on diffusion of CO2 into the leaf, but they more markedly influence biochemical reactions of CO2 fixation and reduction. Thus, increases in temperature usually increase photosynthetic rates until enzyme denaturation and photosystem destruction begin. However, respiratory CO2 loss also increases with temperature, and this is especially pronounced for photorespiration, largely because a temperature rise increases the ratio of dissolved O2 to CO2 (Hall and Keys, 1983). As a result of O2 competition, net CO2 fixation in C-3 plants (Our Ladies are C-3 plants) is not promoted by increased temperature nearly as much as we might expect. The promoting effect of a temperature rise is nearly balanced by increased respration and photorespiration over much of the temperature range at which C-3 plants normally grow, so a rather flat and broad temperature response curve between 15 and 30 degrees Celsius often occurs." For everybody but The Lurker, in English. Bumping up the temp in your growroom won't increase the rate of photosynthesis significantly, although it does make the enzymes that catalyze these reactions work a little better up to a point. This is due to the fact that an increase in temperature also increases the breakdown of these enzymes [enzymes are proteins that are easily denatured by heat, think of an egg white turning white as its proteins are cooked.] So the increase is offset by the energy required to build more enzymes at a faster rate. To my knowledge, there has been no work on thermal optima for Cannabis, but if anyone out there has seen a scientific paper on this subject for this species, let me know. Plants thermal optima tend to be in the normal temperature range that they normally grow in. Since our ladies are genetically plastic, and found growing in all kinds of different environments, the optima probably vary from strain to strain, but again the differences would be small in terms of productivity. Don't waste $$ making your room any warmer, the costs outway the benefits.

p.s. The Vestal Virgins are gorgeous, your work is immaculate in its conception. I am eager to see the Omega.
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This is a very good response, and I think your conclusion is right on too bro. I don't know about any academic or scientific peer reviewed papers on this, probably due to its legal status pretty much throughout the world. So the best we can do is take the anecdotal evidence of the people who are most successful. Hopefully their observations lead us to the right conclusions. Heres are some good generalizations that I've read;

Cannabis can survive in temperatures ranging from freezing to 100 degrees but such extremes will slow growth and lower potency. For the best results during a plants day time keep temperatures between 70 and 85 degrees. At night aim for between 50 and 70 degrees. If heat becomes a problem try timing the light cycle to come on at cooler times like during the night. Using a thermometer with a min max setting will also make sure you are aware of temperature fluctuations that take place when you are not around.

for me, I like to be low 80's whether or not I'm using CO2, but I've also read with an optimal enough environment, a plants metabolism will increase in speed with temperature all the way up into the nineties.

hope that helps. . . but like you said, its gonna be strain specific, so really you need to research the lineage of the strain and experiment.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

420warrior said:
I can't say this is correct but I read somewhere on this site that when the roots get above 72F, they begin to lose their ability take up o2. And that water temps above 72F also begin to lose o2. :peace:
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sfhaze said:
I added the heat pad because my lower shelf was cooler then 80 and the plants definitely suffered. Clones also root much faster at about 90F, at least for me....
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In general, when rooting, you want the soil/medium to be a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient air.

I don't know if 72 is the evil cutoff point, but your right that water can hold less dissolved oxygen as it gets warmer, and its not a liner relation. So you want it as cold as possible, without being so cold that it will shock the roots. I like my water around 64-66 in hydro to get a lot of oxygen and keep any bad bugs at bay.

One other note that is that if you were growing outside or in a greenhouse or something where its still getting really cold out for the plants (<50*) having warm roots, or feeding with warmer water can help get them through a cold spell.

so there can be a lot of factors to consider.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

hey SS, your plants are looking great!

I'm gonna laugh my A off, if in the end the plants looks the same, smoke the same, and weigh the same because you did such a good job. lol.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Hey Wheelo, I have the exact same clones going side by side - both with LEDs, and the only variable was the heat. The warmer ones grow much faster. Maybe it's a LED thing, I don't know, but I have problems with the plants on the lower shelf without the heating pad. I was getting down to maybe 70F, so maybe 75F is okay - but 80F is better.

I use voodoo juice (it's great) maybe the temps help the bacteria.
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

DocBud said:
If the light is only capable of flowering 2 plants, its gram/watt average isn't going to be very good. That's a drawback for sure.....IF it turns out that way.

I keep having this picture in my mind, where a big truck full of LED panels gets a flat tire, and the driver says, "Can you take 12 of these things?"

Then, out of the 12 LED's I make a valley of panels, about 40 inches wide, with the panels oriendted vertically, facing eachother, with two panels capping each end, all about 2 feet off the ground. Over that valley of LED's I run a single 1000watt HPS on a mover and grow 8 plants.

Then, I woke up and had to get ready for work.
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Well buddy, maybe one day you will wake up, get ready for work, and head off for your tunnel of canna-love ;).

I'm feeling much better about the HGL plants now that I have some leeway in positioning the light.

No way it could have stayed at 6" and done a good job.

I hope your dreams become a reality brother ;)
 
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

WheeloFortune said:
hey SS, your plants are looking great!
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Thanks man!

I'm very happy with how they're doing and hoping they're just about done stretching. Barney's Farm says they should top out at around 22", and they are getting there fast.

I'm gonna laugh my A off, if in the end the plants looks the same, smoke the same, and weigh the same because you did such a good job. lol.
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I'd never even thought of that possibility, but if that happens, I hope the yields make both lights winners.

Would that not be the best ending?
 
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