Graytail's 3rd: 4x4, HiBrix, Latest LED Tech, Lots Of Light!

Sonora said:
Hey Conradino - do you think there are other reasons why it might be beneficial to flush besides the "cleansing the buds" theory (I agree with you that there's no point in cleansing the buds of an organic grow, by the way). The taste argument aside, I think a flush does help clear any salts that may have developed around the roots, and if you couple a flush with lowered temps you stress the plant out and can trigger that final, desperation push of development as she tries with all her might to attract pollen.

However, I'm a hydro grower, not an organic grower, so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about :D Always good to learn something I don't know. Appreciate your insight.
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I wonder how the flush with just water came about. I guess through simplicity, a desire to wash out the hydro medium (in organic I agree it is completely silly). But in hydro it has always seemed like too drastic a measure. We go from feeding plants full on to replacing the nutrient rich liquid in the soil with plain water. The osmotic difference is huge. The plant goes from a banquet to starvation. Now think about this. We often are fine with many nutrients at the end of flower (phosphorus, potassium,etc) but many nutrients may be on the verge of deficiency (nitrogen, magnesium, etc). So yes flushing the soil may remove a lot of salts but then feeding with straight water is going to invite these deficiencies to go from borderline to critical. Water is also not efficient at removing "locked" up nutrients in the soil.

I take an alternate approach in hydro and soilless. During the height of flower I am giving them about 2/3 the recommended amount of nutes. Then when the last two weeks arrive I flush not with water but 400ppm nutes drain to waste. This helps unlock and carry away salts. It also leaves the soil with a mild nutrient solution. This encourages the plant to use up the nutrients it has stored because we are not feeding it enough to survive. But the low strength nutes help counteract any deficiencies and let the plant complete its bulk up phase and increase terpenes and trichomes. The very last watering I use just water but that is just a convenience and saving nutrient thing. Then I let the soil dry out and the plant just have a hair of wilt before cutting the plant. The increased dehydration is supposed to help with trichomes. Believe me the bud comes out just as smooth if not smoother because it had a gentle decline to harvest instead of full on starvation. Taste is improved as well.

Soon I won't have to worry as I will be all High Brix!
 
Sonora said:
Hey Conradino - do you think there are other reasons why it might be beneficial to flush besides the "cleansing the buds" theory (I agree with you that there's no point in cleansing the buds of an organic grow, by the way). The taste argument aside, I think a flush does help clear any salts that may have developed around the roots, and if you couple a flush with lowered temps you stress the plant out and can trigger that final, desperation push of development as she tries with all her might to attract pollen.

However, I'm a hydro grower, not an organic grower, so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about :D Always good to learn something I don't know. Appreciate your insight.
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Ok, so it's been answered as far as hydro is concerned. The soil needs to be addressed though. First off if you have salt buildup you already do something wrong, cause plants need them in very low concentration either organic, inorganic or both. In organics it's really hard to get them to risky levels unless you pack your mix full of manure.

In chemical grows however it's entirely possible if you use potash or similar stuff, and yes flushing can get them out of soil cause synthetics do not bind to soil particles very well, that's how you get runoff from conventionally cultivated wheat or corn fields.

But there is another thing, what plants have absorbed cannot be given back. In other words what's in the buds cannot be magically removed. So if you've grown with synthetics you're gonna have unusual concentration of most often abused chemicals, nitrates, potassium and phosphorus, which is why these buds taste like shit, and why your Brix count is low, and why your plants get attacked by pets. And yes, flushing will just create even bigger imbalance in the end, which is why the whole pump them and dump them method won't work for high quality produce.
 
I agree with everything but that the buds must taste like crap lol. I bet the buds I grew in soilless mix are just wonderful and top many organic grows. I think this is due to many things but also due to lack of flush at the end. Though I also think my HB buds of the same strains will be even better.
 
Seshan said:
I think people get the rules confused.

And these next gen's are doing pretty well, The OG's are still holding it down though :)
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You can outcross OGs adding more desirable genes and stabilise them in consecutive generations, but yeah there's a lot of work to be dine:passitleft:
 
Thx Ziggs :laugh:
 
And let me tell you how reassuring it is to have the Old Guard stick around to keep the New Guard on the path. I like this experiment we have going here, refining an already superb system. I'm doing drenches today, looking at the definitive HB kit leaf and plant structure in comparison to my healthy LOS pots, and I keep trying not to say this out loud guys, but the voice in the back of my brain gets louder and louder, wondering why the entire grow isn't in Doc's soil. Am I sticking with LOS for some romantic reason?

Deep breath girl. Stay the course. No decisions until we're done with this grow. The soils actually turn out comparable product in potency and in yield, and I'm likely getting different levels of terpene and flavonoid expression from each soil, so my approach may be more valid than I give myself credit for. I'm going to have to run one strain in both soils and get the oils tested. That'll be tricky to pull off, but I believe that's my only real option. It's something I should do anyway with oil.

There's just such a world of difference in the way these soils grow plants that it surprises me every day.
 
JuanCarlos said:
Sue I would say you take two clones from the same mother, run one in LOS and one in DBHB and that would give you a great side by side comparison.
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:laughtwo: What a noob! LOL! I didn't even think of that Juan. Thanks for the thump up side the head. Hahaha! I'll be taking cuttings when I top. Geez, sometimes I'm so dense it surprises me. :laughtwo:
 
SweetSue said:
:laughtwo: What a noob! LOL! I didn't even think of that Juan. Thanks for the thump up side the head. Hahaha! I'll be taking cuttings when I top. Geez, sometimes I'm so dense it surprises me. :laughtwo:
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Shig stepped in and gave me cloning ideas I wouldn't have thought of. It's a community here, different eyes looking at things from different viewpoints. GT has done the same for me, it's all love around here.
 
Well folks, I'm finally getting around to posting another update. :yahoo:

The last couple harvests have been clones so I didn't bother with pictures and strain reports, etc. Grieg1 was 50 grams, 1.76 ounces over 170 days = 0.294 gr/day, and Chan1 was 54 grams, 1.89 ounces over 167 days = 0.323 gr/day. In both cases the produce was better than the first run. The Chan1, especially, was wonderful - very fragrant and punchy. The Grieg1 apparently turned out pretty good too! :laugh: I'm telling you, fellow cannabis connoisseurs, you'd want to have some of this stuff in a jar. This Y Griega is some of the most potent pot I've ever had. You want it around just for that distinction, as a benchmark. :cheesygrinsmiley: But do not answer the phone or go out in public when you've been getting toasted on this particular strain. Just don't. Plan ahead. :straightface:

The finally days of Freddy's Best are at hand. She went kinda insane these past couple weeks an' I think it's time to harvest. :slide: I am now officially impressed - I did not see this trich explosion coming. The aroma reminds me of something in the DrGrinspoon, probably the Mexican/Thai. I'll have a sample by the end of the week.

Freddy's Best - 181 days old - 69 days 11/13 - 61 since pistils
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Next will be CarnA1, due in two weeks. It didn't turn out to be as big as I wanted, but I'm going to try and reveg it, so maybe I can get some multiple cuts to run. I prefer the habit and effect of this pheno.

CarnivalACut1 - 193 days old - 56 days 11/13 - 46 since pistils
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Just a week later comes CarnB2. I don't know what I did to toast this one so badly. I thought is was a foliar issue, but the necrosis spread - looks more like a toxicity. In other respects it's actually doing well.

CarnivalBCut2 - 149 days old - 48 days 11/13 - 38 since pistils
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Grin2 is looking pretty good for now, big and bushy. :laugh: This is a nice strain. :Love: She's 42 days into bloom now with another 40 to go.

DrGrinspoonCut2 - 119 days old - 42 days 11/13 - 32 since pistils
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CarnB1 is off to a great start ...

CarnivalBCut1 - 149 days old - 27 days 11/13 - 17 since pistils
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And Rio3 is still in veg, but I'll get her into bloom this week when I chop Freddy's. :slide:

RioCut3 - 139 days old
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:Namaste:
 
:drool::welldone:
 
The thing I am really noticing (besides the ridiculous trichome level you always have) is FAN LEAVES! You have lots more fans than I am used to seeing in this garden. Does that mean the tide of the whitefly war is turning Graytail? Or is it that the whiteflies are more seasonal as you have said before?
 
Freddy's Best >> Graytail's Beast.

:adore:
 
Dennise said:
Frostalious as always Gray...:yahoo:...:circle-of-love:
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brightlight said:
Another great update & pics from the Mayor of Frost City! Excellent as always.:thumb:
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Stage said:
:drool::welldone:
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kelticBlue said:
Wowza! with the Freddys Best!

lovely update Thanks:thanks:

Cheers!
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Major PITA said:
Freddy's Best >> Graytail's Beast.

:adore:
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:thanks: :yahoo:

At least they're frosty! :laugh:


ShiggityFlip said:
The thing I am really noticing (besides the ridiculous trichome level you always have) is FAN LEAVES! You have lots more fans than I am used to seeing in this garden. Does that mean the tide of the whitefly war is turning Graytail? Or is it that the whiteflies are more seasonal as you have said before?
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LOL, I feel like I'm suffering from a kinda syndrome, like body image issues or sumthin', cause I wince when I look at these plants. :laugh: Icky ick ick. And fan leaves? Sheesh, I've been looking through other journals for weeks, and moaning to myself about my crispy yellow fanless girls. :straightface: So it warms a guy's heart to hear that. The Rio in veg is certainly a leafy thing and I'm not sure what's going on there. I think she's just been idling in veg too long. And the short Carnival phenoB is leafier than most. Heheh, I think my plants are leafless.

The friggin flies are awesome! Really! Every time I think I got 'em, they adjust and rebuild. They're due for another shot of spinosad this week and that will kill off a bunch more, but I was disappointed to see how well they'd recovered from the last treatment. I'm working with SNS drenches between waterings and foliar spinosad. The spinosad kills 'em dead, but there are a lot of them. Most of them you see on the plants now are dead and stuck there. It's not a pretty thing. But the leaves get trimmed off and they stay out of the buds, so a trim and wash takes care of it. :straightface: And yes, they're also seasonal, so they only have another month or so before the population will naturally decline. I'm going to break down the room and do some improvements, insulation and laminate walls, sealed airtight, so I'll be able to deal with them next time. They've gotten dangerous. For the first couple seasons they still had trouble with the high sugar in the HB plants, but they're fully adapted to it now, a plant-specific species. :laugh: I've never seen them mob the place like this.

But heheh, I apparently have the trich-farming thing down pat. Freddy's Best ... :thedoubletake: ... wow ... like a primal scream at the finish. :straightface: I can't wait to clean her up and see what that looks like close up.
 
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