First Grow-Aero-Stealth Box

[Skybound]

I still have a pot twice the size and plenty of FFOF and perlite left. I built the box using the side of a closet and painted over it with ceiling paint. this could possibly be where the dust comes from as it is NOT a gloss paint, but just flat white. Also, I painted over plain pine wood which itself is pretty dry and can suck the moisture out of anything. i have the box raised over the carpet by 9" to clear some floor molding and conceal the inlet vent. Air is drawn via a 110 CFM PC fan through a 4" hole. On the bottom of the hole is a 4" soffit vent, then a carbon prefilter (like the ones used in water pumps), then the PC fan's grill to hold the pre filter, then a piece of 3/4" plywood to separate them.

Day temps go from 77-82
Night temps from 75-80
RH is currently 50% (+/- 2°) <--Hotkey for degree sign is Alt + 0176
Light is about 6" above canopy top to promote some stretch, but I used to keep it about 1-2" above.

Regarding cloning. First thanks for the thumbs up. Is there an ideal time to take them so to cause the least amount of stress? What time of daylight? Just before, in between, or just after feedings/waterings? I've gathered the methods used to get the clones off the plants, how to cut them down and get them in cubes and setup of the clone dome, but there is very little info out there for when ideal times are in the mother's life (size or age), or ideal times relative to daytime and feeding schedules. Any insight will be so greatly appreciated!!

P.S. +REPs for helping me better understand plant language and massive encouragement!!

 

[mcloadie]

I still have a pot twice the size and plenty of FFOF and perlite left. I built the box using the side of a closet and painted over it with ceiling paint. this could possibly be where the dust comes from as it is NOT a gloss paint, but just flat white. Also, I painted over plain pine wood which itself is pretty dry and can suck the moisture out of anything. i have the box raised over the carpet by 9" to clear some floor molding and conceal the inlet vent. Air is drawn via a 110 CFM PC fan through a 4" hole. On the bottom of the hole is a 4" soffit vent, then a carbon prefilter (like the ones used in water pumps), then the PC fan's grill to hold the pre filter, then a piece of 3/4" plywood to separate them.

Day temps go from 77-82
Night temps from 75-80
RH is currently 50% (+/- 2°) <--Hotkey for degree sign is Alt + 0176
Light is about 6" above canopy top to promote some stretch, but I used to keep it about 1-2" above.

Regarding cloning. First thanks for the thumbs up. Is there an ideal time to take them so to cause the least amount of stress? What time of daylight? Just before, in between, or just after feedings/waterings? I've gathered the methods used to get the clones off the plants, how to cut them down and get them in cubes and setup of the clone dome, but there is very little info out there for when ideal times are in the mother's life (size or age), or ideal times relative to daytime and feeding schedules. Any insight will be so greatly appreciated!!

P.S. +REPs for helping me better understand plant language and massive encouragement!!

I've taken cuts at every possible time and scenario, I do most of my work early in the morning. Your plant looks prime for taking cuts, well developed branches.....I just know it's preferable to wait til the nodes alternate before flowering....it's a sign of maturity. I can tell you those plants won't stress from taking cuts....a swift whack....you could give em a little water afterwards....if they need it...NEVER water unless the pots need it!, it's too hard to fix overwatering issues....it f's up everything.....nute schedule..ect.!

 

[Skybound]

So far, I've been watering when the pots are very light. Moisture meter reads less than 30% and the medium reacts to the slightest vibration of my hand. On another note, I am cleaning the aeroponic manifold and sprayers with 10 gal of tap water and 2 TBS of dish soap, and there is no where near the pressure I anticipated. Maybe too much water is inhibiting the sprayers as they're about half buried, but if after I drain some off in an hour they still don't hit the bottom of the net pots, I gotta add some more sprayers and open the choke wider.
Thanks for all the help mcloadie, you've been awesome (bro?)

 

[KingJohnC]

when you take a cutting you want at least a 4 inch length to cut and try to leave a node left on the plant so it can grow 2 more shoots from it. your plants should bounce back 1 week after taking cuttings with new growth.

 

[Skybound]

I just now got done setting up to take cuttings tomorrow. I will also be planting a few bag seeds in rockwool cubes for another noob 420 member that is having difficulty germinating. He went through I think 8 of his 10 seeds with none that popped out of the coco mix. I have no intent on keeping the seedlings once sprouted, just trying to find an easy process to germinate and how long. i will post pics and updates on both clones and seedlings here and on his thread of course.

 

[donpaul.p]

you will really struggle to get the plant into a hydro set up, their will be much damage done to the roots getting the soil out, i would not personally go down that route, the shock of doing that will set you back weaks, plus you would need to remove all traces of soil to prevent it blocking the hydro set up up, its not going to be easy, im sure it can be done but what affects is that going to have on the plant, the stress to the roots will be very high, id be more concerned about it going hermie than surviving the transplant, yes it will survive, but will take a long time to recover before you see any signs of new growth,

then you need to make sure you got ph testers and ppm testers for when you do go hydro, ph up and down will also be needed,
with hydro the plants live off what you give them, dont give them anything and they get nothing, in soil the nutrients soak into the soil so the plants can live off the soil between feeds, in hydro you would need to keep the ppms constant to ensure the plant is getting what it needs all the time, then you would have to flush and throw away the solution to prevent any root problems, i know some dont flush and clean the res but id prefer not to take risks and would flush every 2 weeks to ensure the res was clean and nothing bad was starting to build up,

hydro will grow faster and will reach harvest quicker, my dwc is clearly proof of this and hydro and dwc growers will also agree that plants grow quicker, but hydro is more hands on you cant just leave you plants for a couple of days as pumps could stop working, pipes could get blocked so your constantly checking the res temp, ppms and ph to make sure the plant is taking in exactly what it needs, their is no buffer with hydro where as soil acts like a buffer so ph dont have to be perfect all the time,

im not knocking hydro but i know a few growers have gone back to soil just becaues of the work involved in checking the set up every day, its not hard work dont get me wrong but your checking ph and ppms daily and also res temp, with soil i dont check ph and ive not had any issues i have not been able to correct with less nutrients or more nutrients, plus with soil plants you can leave them to do their thing for 4 or 5 days without worrying about something not working,

i do grow the odd 2ltr dwc just for the speed of growth and quicker harvest, not much quicker but around 2 weeks due to the extra growth by dwc, but im not running a big set up and i get ok results,

but id honesly use the clones for the hydro, i would not risk taking a plant out of soil and putting it into hydro, ive known growers take hydro or dwc plants and grew them in soil but your not damaging most of the roots by doing this but it still has some shock to deal with as it gets used to the soil, but going from soil to hydro would be a bit more complicated as you would spend a lot of time cleaning the roots and you would end up losing a lot of root mass doing this,

it will grow again but you would lose a couple of weeks while it recovers, so its a challenge but im sure it can be done but at what cost, would you end up with a hermie plant due to the roots stress, its a possibility at the very least

 

[Skybound]

Thank you donpaul for being brutally honest. I think I will heed your advice and stay the course. I mean, I already have a PPM pen, pH control kit with the up and down, the half pint flora series to start off, just got silica from GH and almost all the bells and whistles, but the fact right at this moment is that I am not convined that it is not hermie or flat out a dude for that matter. I just want to keep the learning on my part constant and hands on. I will take some cuttings tomorrow (my 1st time cloning) and see if I can get that right. Transplanting to hydro will likely overwhelm me with all the problems making it that much more difficult to learn anything. So I think I will veg this out in soil a bit longer to try and get it visibly stable then flip the lights and see what the gender verdict is. Not being a smoker, I have a lot less pressure on me to get monster buds at harvest. I still want them for my roommates and to get mom baked for her first time, but I just want to learn cannabotany. I've wanted to do this and perfect it since I was a teenager. But that's neither here nor there. I will keep this one in the dirt, and take some clones tomorrow and make a small bubbler till this current one is ready for the axe, then I will put in the Aero/DWC bucket and hopefully the timing is close.

Thanks again for the honesty and time you spent in that lengthy post!! +REPs

 

[mcloadie]

Only advice with cuts is to get em in water immediately....I have great success. Johns outlines are good, and dp is on track. There are a lot of different methods for doing things............fun times for you...developing your "style". Oh, bro would be correct!

 

[KingJohnC]

I should have mentioned i always have a glass with water in it to put the cuttings in as soon as possible.

 

[mcloadie]

I should have mentioned i always have a glass with water in it to put the cuttings in as soon as possible.

yeah john, that's the only real issue I've ever seen with cuts, I used to get thousands of em in the mail, we just recut em and they worked........every one...every time....expensive ornamentals......LOL. I think we paid 40 cents apiece for em and sold the finished plants for 30 bucks each! Horticulture and agriculture are such interesting fields, I have no regrets ever for getting involved in all! I like using the professional products.....you know they work well before you even try em.

 

[Skybound]

Check list, tell me if I miss anything;

I soaked the cubes last night in distilled and adjusted pH and put tupperware on heat mat (Is 12 hours good enough for the cubes?)
sterilize razor
get small glass of water
pour rooting gel in shot glass
I am thinking to foliar spray. The Armor Si by GH says that this product helps to reduce stress so maybe I'll use it as I'm planning on taking cuts this afternoon. I will recharge the CO2 as well.

Afternoon;
Take the plant out of box, take cutting nearest the base of stem at 45° angle to maximize surface area. Immediately put into water. Take cutting #2 and place into water. Take cutting #3 and place into water, repeat if there will be a #4.

Take cutting #1 and cutting off lowest node parallel to it's new main stem. Lightly scar lower portions of skin. Adequately dip into shot glass of gel. Place into cube. (Cube is lightly squeezed to remove excess water and air if any, also pH will have been readjusted)
Place cube in tray and foliar spray. If there are large fans, remove half off the tips to reduce sweating.
Repeat for #'s 2, 3 and 4

The seeds I am also going to drop today for another 420 member, I think I will keep in the event the clones survive and are male.

 

[mcloadie]

Check list, tell me if I miss anything;

I soaked the cubes last night in distilled and adjusted pH and put tupperware on heat mat (Is 12 hours good enough for the cubes?)
sterilize razor
get small glass of water
pour rooting gel in shot glass
I am thinking to foliar spray. The Armor Si by GH says that this product helps to reduce stress so maybe I'll use it as I'm planning on taking cuts this afternoon. I will recharge the CO2 as well.

Afternoon;
Take the plant out of box, take cutting nearest the base of stem at 45° angle to maximize surface area. Immediately put into water. Take cutting #2 and place into water. Take cutting #3 and place into water, repeat if there will be a #4.

Take cutting #1 and cutting off lowest node parallel to it's new main stem. Lightly scar lower portions of skin. Adequately dip into shot glass of gel. Place into cube. (Cube is lightly squeezed to remove excess water and air if any, also pH will have been readjusted)
Place cube in tray and foliar spray. If there are large fans, remove half off the tips to reduce sweating.
Repeat for #'s 2, 3 and 4

The seeds I am also going to drop today for another 420 member, I think I will keep in the event the clones survive and are male.

Talk to me sky, you're freakin me out!....LOL, you said something about pH, if you're using r/o water........there's no pH issue to consider, so you say you adjusted the pH of r/o water that makes me think you may have put it out of whack? You are gonna want to keep em pretty moist til you see yellowing at the tips of the leaves, the cubes have no nutrient value and this is a sign that the plants are beginning to draw energy from the foliage....more proof that leaves are givers and not takers. When this happens they are ready for a cooler soil...transplant......I use solo cups.......let em go in there for about two weeks...then into the hot soil. You can transplant after only a week.....but the soil has got to be pretty gentle. If you burn cuts or seedlings they quite often recover....but it always costs you time. EVERY bit of stress will cost us time in the beginning, and if we push it too much it will cost us yield in the end. +reps for learning this technique!

 

[Skybound]

I haven't yet got an RO system so I'm using jugs of distilled water bought from Wally's. I also added a little bit of the 25% strength Flora into the water I am soaking the cubes in over night further diluting that mix to 12.5% or less. I just now dropped 5 beans into a cup of water. I will place them in cubes after I take the cuttings this afternoon.

Plant update;

Overall color appears to be stabilizing and new growths (bud sites?) are popping up everywhere. Mental note, get good camera today! I have a good cam, just keep forgetting to get it back from mom. Better pics tomorrow though.

I really think it's this 25% Flora series I've been feeding that gives me this beautiful rapid growth, structure development and color stability. If I am understanding what you mean by the FFOF being a "HOT" soil, I'm thinking it's not as hot as previous believed, or this plant is like a typical blonde and enjoys the heat. At any rate, I plan to feed, feed, flush, feed, feed, flush and as the plant gets bigger, maybe gradually increase the strength of the feed.

 

[stealthgrow]

Looks great Sky, I like the big fat Indica leaves, she looks healthy.

 

[Skybound]

Ok, I finished the cutting and popped 5 seeds that I soaked for a few hours. The cuttings were not as big as I perceived initially and could have waited a few more days. Also, I cut off 3 larger fan leaves from the bottom that wasn't getting much light and laying in the dirt. There were more a little higher that I also wanted to cut, but restrained myself as they were not in the dirt. I tried to clean the stumps by cutting them off evenly with my pruners, but that didn't go as planned either, so I'm hoping the plant can cauterize it's own wounds. I didn't cut any of the tips off any of the leaves as they were kinda small and I know I could trim them back if you all suggest I do so, but I can't put them back on if I did so already, so I just didn't for now. Being as though my 6 or 8" fan is slightly below the pot pointing upward, I think there should be better under canopy circulation now and hopefully the plant will come back stronger as there is no longer any big fans on the bottom struggling to maintain life. That's how I m optimistically interpreting it anyways. Here's pics. (Didn't get my cam back yet, but am working on it.

Also, I raised the light a foot and foliar sprayed the plant with some of that 12% Flora mix. I'll be looking how I can get the Armor Si silica into the mix either with feeding or foliar spray. Any thoughts on that?

 

[RainStacks]

Looking good man. I also used FFOF and had no problems, but maybe growth was a bit slow in the beginning. I don't have any experience to compare to, but the plants seemed healthy throughout. I would not worry about the plant healing on its own. Just be sure to sterilize any tool before you use it to cut.

 

[Skybound]

I think I added too much perlite to the FFOF which made it's nutes less available and is the reason I am seeing great results with the added feeding I've been giving. I may be just bringing it back to where it was prior to adding 40% additional perlite?

 

[donpaul.p]

looking good, dont worry about the plant healing you can pretty much snap them in half and they will bounce back so it will heal in time with no problems,

as long as you keep the cuttings misted with water they will root, id remove the dome every now and then to let them breath but i do this once a day with mine and give them a gentle spray with water, you want to keep the leaves sprayed and then the roots will grow to search for water,

looks like you done a good job,

 

[Skybound]

Does anyone have any insight or can point me to some literature about using silica in foliar spray? I already have some mixed @ maybe 60% strength, and pHed the water back down to a low 6.0 range, but I am more curious if this additive can be used with clones, or just leave them be with humidity, heat and light?

 

[mcloadie]

First off.......AWESOME JOB ON THE CUTS! Don't worry about the wounds on the cultivar "the plant you took the cuts from", they form what is called "callus"...I think that's how it's spelled.......the same reason you put your cuts in water immediately. You can cut the second set of leaves back on your clones if you want, they will be fine either way in the dome........I've done it both ways with great success! Watch the dome, and only mist it when you see the moisture is mostly gone, they like to dry a little in between misting, and you will do that after you remove the dome for 2 or three days......once a day. DO NOT CUT the newer leaves on your clones..."the meristem", this will stunt the crap out of em! You need to start thinking how you want these plants to grow and make every move toward that goal. Congratulations, I like your attitude you had when you took the cuts..........confidence seems to go a long ways! I always say "what I lack in knowledge and experience will be made up for with copious amounts of confidence"!