DWC & Soil: Verb's Purple Puncher Autos, Mars Hydro TS 1000

[Braddah Waiheesohai]

Sick work, congrats friend! I've been known to put it in a paper bag with the hygrometer for a day or three if it's just not getting there in a jar. Usually works tits.

 

[Verbalist]

Sick work, congrats friend! I've been known to put it in a paper bag with the hygrometer for a day or three if it's just not getting there in a jar. Usually works tits.

U sharp bruv!!
Ive got the biggest nugs in the same jar and a bit worried whats the RH inside.. if I squeeze my hygrometer in there gotta take at least 3 nugs off.

I’ll move them into those paper fruit/veggie bags and the meter goes amongst!
Idk what has been the guidance about closing the bags, but Ima close them since they breath a little and kinda wanna minic the normal jarring. Bag clippers just easy to pop open if they get moist and let them sit for couple hours.
LOL being so blazed all the time so that my head doesn’t function properly anymore.

And thanks brother Waiheesohai, I really appreciate it

 

[Rexer]

U sharp bruv!!
Ive got the biggest nugs in the same jar and a bit worried whats the RH inside.. if I squeeze my hygrometer in there gotta take at least 3 nugs off.

I’ll move them into those paper fruit/veggie bags and the meter goes amongst!
Idk what has been the guidance about closing the bags, but Ima close them since they breath a little and kinda wanna minic the normal jarring. Bag clippers just easy to pop open if they get moist and let them sit for couple hours.
LOL being so blazed all the time so that my head doesn’t function properly anymore.

And thanks brother Waiheesohai, I really appreciate it

Do you have more jars by any chance?

Don't pack the jars quite so much. It'll give you a few benefits.

• Allows the buds to breathe a bit
• More air exchange in burping
• If mold occurs, your less likely to loose everything (it'll be more likely contained to the one jar).

And id start stockpiling mini hydrometers, it's reassuring when you can squeeze one in each jar and know the exact RH. They're also fairly cheap.

 

[Verbalist]

Do you have more jars by any chance?

Don't pack the jars quite so much. It'll give you a few benefits.

• Allows the buds to breathe a bit
• More air exchange in burping
• If mold occurs, your less likely to loose everything (it'll be more likely contained to the one jar).

And id start stockpiling mini hydrometers, it's reassuring when you can squeeze one in each jar and know the exact RH. They're also fairly cheap.

Evening Rexer And thanks for the input.

Nope, don’t have more than those 3 big ones and two small ones. Got some screw caps tho which I could make air tight.

Thanks for the info Moved the biggest nugs into small paper bags earlier. Just checked and RH inside the paper bag is 41% and now had more space in the class jars so theyre only bout half filled - so the RH meter fits in to them. Will be checking their RH later.

And thats me brother Been watching those mini RH meters on wish for months now.. They’d be like two bucks each from there but idk how china shit are they. And that would take ages to arrive…
Haven’t found that small meters from my local hydrostores, but could just ebay. Takes weeks to ship in Fin tho..

 

[Rexer]

They're worth it in the long run. I got mine off the 'Zon. I try to buy an extra pack now and then. Helps me to not stress as badly over loosing meds. One of these days I'll sink them into the lids as some members have done.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Buy a pack of 10 and toss the ones that deviate from most by more than a few percent.

 

[Verbalist]

12/4 Journal update



Saturday 420 fam!
Still freezing cold outside and during the nights gotta improvese to keep tent at least @ 20C or above. (Cold air somehow gets in thru the fan & outgoing pipe)

Where do we start?
Blackberry Kush curing progressing smoothly. Biggest nugs were inside the paper bags for ~12h until RH dropped down to 50%. Now theyre jarred and RH’s bout 55% - rises to up to 65 if kept closed over 12h.
Med sized nugs were just moved into paper bags since their RH climbed up to 75% in couple hrs. When getting RH between 50-60% I’ll move them back to the jars and continue curing and burping.
The biggest nuggets already starting to gain a sweety smell and colors showing up nicely!

Then the next operation…Remove LST clips
Didn’t realize at all how fast the stems of new shoots thicken Clips were on for two days and stems overgrew from them… So if youve ever played with the LST clips you know, thats a mission impossible to take them off without breaking the woody overgrowed stem.
I broke total 3 branches which I had to duct tape to support them, and this happened. Lost one whole important node. It was the 2nd lowest node so it had some size already.

Date 12/4
Strain(s) Purple Punch auto#2
Day 25 / Week 4
- - -
Tent temp 24.5
Solution/water temp 20C
RH 45%
VPD 1.17kPa
Light(s) Mars Hydro TS 1000 (Now 20" above and dimmed to 100%)
- - -
pH 6 / Adjusting pH down 5.6 every two days, but otherwise plant looks most happy between 5.9-6.2 - So Ive kept pretty stable 6
EC 1.8 current / 1.4 when made latest res change 6 days ago.
TDS 905ppm
- - -
* Fertilization & Feed *
As mentioned above latest res change was 6 days ago and EC of the patch was 1.4
Ive topped mostly with pH’d water & HG to bring EC down to 1.6-1.7 / ~800ppm Couple times Ive added two to three ml’s of Terpinator & diamond nectar.
As the EC gets up to 1.9, then thats ~40% increase from starting EC. So the res change well be most likely tomorrow.

Heres today (Day 25) before and after LST:ing (only the stems which wasn’t broken)

68019E61-2391-4D48-BF25-2DD16B963DFC.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 4, 2021

Purple Punch auto#2
12/4
Day 25 / Week 4
*post LST*

022C25FE-968A-4661-9DB9-5BF98212D758.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 4, 2021

Purple Punch auto#2
12/4
Day 25 / Week 4
*afrer LST*

Date 12/4
Strain(s) Purple Punch auto#1 (soil)
Day 32 / Week 5
- - -
Tent temp 24.5
Solution/water temp 23.5C
RH 45%
VPD 1.17kPa - Leaf ofset (top leaves) is +1-2C
Light(s) Mars Hydro TS 1000
- - -
pH Runoff says 6.1 but idk how accurate
EC 2.1
TDS -
- - -
* Fertilization & Feed * Gave couple heavier feed (2-2.1EC / 1000ppmish) that might have lowered the soil pH. Between the feedings Ive gave a liter or two plain tap water ~8pH trying to maintain soil pH stable 6.5
Latest feed:
- 0.7ml/l BioBizz Cal/Mag
- 1.1ml/l Micro
- 1ml/l Bloom
- 1.3ml/l Grow
- 3.2ml/l Terpinator
+ some beneficials & bloom boosters (no PK boosters yet tho)

She looks happy First about 3 weeks tried to keep the irrigating minimal and mostly saturated the surface to keep her nice and squat. Now every time I water trying to get at least 10% runoff since there is like an inch layer of hydroton on bottom of the fabric pot.

B949E7A1-34BA-4455-B1EF-ACA2F780D09A.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 4, 2021
• purple punch auto

Purple Punch auto#1
12/3
Day 31

295CC627-CC01-4BA1-9FE7-F5458C73EFCB.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 4, 2021

Purple Punch auto#1
12/4
Day 32
Week 5

The structure

0B7EF491-260B-47E6-98E9-37BB31DEE996.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 4, 2021

Purple Punch auto#1
12/4 / Day 32
Structure

Stay safe!
- Verb

 

[Verbalist]

Buy a pack of 10 and toss the ones that deviate from most by more than a few percent.

Yeah thats what I actually did. Ordered 6 of those mini RH meters and they prbs arrive before Purple Punches are ready to harvest.

 

[Verbalist]

Journal update 12/5


Today changed the reservoir water and made a new patch.
Current reservoir should last at least for the next ~10 days. Next one will be most likely reduced N and increased P&K.
So the current reservoir (15L full capacity & 10L for 1.5" below the net cup) base nutes are GHE Flora trio aka Tripart nowdays.
- 0.95ml/l (3.6ml/g) Micro
- 1.75ml/l (6.6ml/g) Grow
- 0.95ml/l (3.6ml/g) Bloom
- 1.9ml/l Terpinator
- 1.25ml/l Diamond nectar
- 0.5ml/l Hydroguard
- 0.5g GHE Silica
- 0.3ml ATAMI Bcuzz Silica Boost

Gives me NPK, Ca, Mg, S, Fe & Si ppm values of:
N: 118ppm (last 78ppm)
P: 32ppm
K: 214ppm
Ca: ~90-100ppm total
Mg: 51ppm
S: 55ppm
Fe: 1.7ppm
Si: 40ppm

Ending EC: 1.6 / TDS: 835ppm
pH lowered down to 5.6 and letting it swing back up to 6.3 before adjusting back to ~6. I’ll keep hovering between 6, which the plant seem to like the most.

Plant seems to be recorvering nicely from the lst clips. Stems and nodes having a steel tissue!!
So did some more LST:ing today. new shoots are getting the stretchy look for now. Hopefully increased N&K ratios will balance the growth and make it more sturdy.

12/5 couple pics:

BD9D3C69-3FC3-4BAF-8BF4-471552E38FDB.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 5, 2021

Purple Punch auto#2
12/5
Day 26 above ground

16FB0113-E263-4B47-BE19-8131381BA1FA.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 5, 2021

12/5 - Groupie
Purple buddies!
TS1000 20" above @100%

Blackberry Kush curing progress continues.
Tonight had to take the first actual SAMPLE samples Thought the taste might have some flavors already. And indeed it had!
Promised the smoke report days ago, but tonight I’ll smoke the medicine so can’t get up from the couch and I’ll post the smoke report after a well slept night.

While curing, the nugs went little piled up, so some of the leaves show up better now… Should take an another dry trim since most trimming was done when it was wet.
Berry Juice:

D6F93932-DE7E-476E-9BCD-E6F9B5FD6026.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 5, 2021
• 3
• blackberry kush dutch passion

Blackberry Kush auto / Dutch Passion

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

Looking good @Verbalist !!! Hope mine start to stretch soon! The cabbage look is frustrating to train!

 

[Verbalist]

Journal update 12/7

Wheres the sunny beaches and summer?? Far away from Finland…
-18C deg outside. Cold as hell.

Exhaust fan still leaking cold air inside the tent so night temps would drop down to 16-18C without additional heat.
So bought this tiny mini mini heater fits perfectly inside the tent. 450W heater and the temp can be adjusted between 18-40C. And whats the best - it has a buildin thermostat!
When I set it to for example 22C and when tent gets 22C the heater stops running.
Perfect investment to keep the tent warm, init?

Then the ladies!
PP#2 on dwc being drunk! She has drank bout 1.5-2L in past 24h. Topped the res twice today.
Newest res patch I made couple days ago was ~830ppm and it had dropped down to 775ppm during the night. So topped once with 0.5L water mixed with 1.25ml of Bloom (P&K boost little) and otherwise just pH’d water and with HG time to time.

Looks like no bigger damage was done when I broke and taped couple branches.

Also found this funny, she keeps praying mad crazy. Dunno if thats ”normal” anymore. But since she looks happy I’ll let her do her thingys…

And nothing much to mention about PP#1 on soil.. her growth is slowing down and flowers will start hulking up in a week or so.
Couple pics from 12/7 and not the forget THE ROOTS! They look super. Tell if Im a weirdo when ever I lift the lid, I smell the roots even tho by the look I can tell theyre healthy

3E94C234-F3DD-4BBF-A02C-46A54011B6BA.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 7, 2021

Purple Punch auto#2
12/7
Day 28 / end of 4th week

959DFAEF-2BA9-4312-913A-A938DDA66BE3.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 7, 2021

Purple Punch auto (DWC)
12/7 - Rooots!

0F35C86D-A42B-4CF1-88F6-00181B25BBFC.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Dec 7, 2021

Purple Punch auto#1
12/7
Day 35 above ground

Blackberry Kush smoke report still lacking I’ll drop it any day soon.
Until then stay n toke safe fam! Don’t catch a cold! I already got the flu…


- V

 

[Verbalist]

Looking good @Verbalist !!! Hope mine start to stretch soon! The cabbage look is frustrating to train!

Thanks cjsbabygirl!
Gotta admit that lst:ing being easier when theres lil gap between nodes.
Just waiting for her to grow out from that shape. Will hapen most likely when the pre-flower/stretch phase begins.

Whole lot new pistils pushing thru every day, so I’d guess we’re close

PS. Try those laundry clippers that I posted on Shed’s lst thread guaranteed satisfaction

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

Thanks cjsbabygirl!
Gotta admit that lst:ing being easier when theres lil gap between nodes.
Just waiting for her to grow out from that shape. Will hapen most likely when the pre-flower/stretch phase begins.

Whole lot new pistils pushing thru every day, so I’d guess we’re close

PS. Try those laundry clippers that I posted on Shed’s lst thread guaranteed satisfaction

Mine’s not showing any pistols yet

 

[Rexer]

Do you have a back draft dampener? It Helps stop some of the cold leaking back in.
Something like this;

 

[Verbalist]

Mine’s not showing any pistols yet

Veggie baby veggie Its like slowly ripening christmas ham. Sloowly but surely

Do you have a back draft dampener? It Helps stop some of the cold leaking back in.
Something like this;

Hey Rex! Thanks for the reply.
Dunno if I’ve already mentioned before that I’m not using carbon filters, nor do have ”a proper outake/exhaust system”.
I’ve loved the current system because its so simple and theres no big ass filters hanging and eating the tent space - and haven’t had too bad problems with the smell either.

I’m just having this 125mm out take/exhaust fan attached inside the tent. It blows 180m3/h so it should be more than enough for 2x3 tent. (Creates a vacuum inside the tent, if I turn off intake fan)

And its tubed straight to the houses ventilation duct (in contact with the outside air).
Firstly OFF my duct tape tuning didn’t come up with anything else because there is between the vent and outside grill just the same kind of back draft thingy..
See those two wires hanging from the walls duct(?) theyre used to control how much you want to open it.
Even though Ive it barely ajar, some of the cold air still gets in. (Can’t obv completely close it..)

so that air duct where the tubing is attached, the duct is supposed to let cool air in. But I’ve kinda tried to deflect it with the fan.
It does work, not saying that. For example look at these below Would you guess which one is my duct?

Lmao, compare to neighbors. Maybe a lil suspicious already when the cold air looks to be staying here…


And a quickie update:
Watered and fed the PP#1 on soil. Been wondering about the soil pH lately because she’s been getting darker green day by day and growth has slowed down dramatically.
So collected a pretty accurate run off water and pH was 4.9

After ~5-6L flush with 8pH tap water, started to look heaps better:

EC before the flush were 1.9 and after the flush 1.5
So gave one more litre bout 1.8EC feed solution.
And looks much happier again

- V

 

[FelipeBlu]

Good catch - she looks happy!

Hmm..your vent does look a bit odd..

 

[Verbalist]

Good catch - she looks happy!

Hmm..your vent does look a bit odd..

Indeed When I hit the humidifier up to half speed and RH rises to 50-60%, you can clearly see how theres wet warm air comming out and getting touch with cold air. Looks like a fucking steaming meth lab

Dunno if my tinfoil hats too tight, but IMO that looks suspicious af. Those vents are supposed to let some cool air in (very old ventilation on this flat) and somehow theres comming warm air out from my apartment

….Just wondering how big does that can get. When half of the flats wall starts to get fronzen I probably have to improvise something. Until then

 

[FelipeBlu]

How punitive is the prohibition in Finland?

 

[StoneOtter]

 

[Verbalist]

Journal update 12/11

- - -
Test: reduce stem elongation / -DIF / EC&moisture
- - -

Hello!
Been playing around with the temps lately as I had night time temps dropping down to 17-18C.
So decided take a little deeper look into the changes of temperature variation.
Found this medtanks article about reducing the stretch in indoor hydroponic crops: Reducing Stretch in Hydroponic Crops | Manic Botanix
the article covers a wide range of different ways in which elongation can be affected (for example PGR’s, other hormones and light waves), but as I already knew that the temp changes has an affect on stem elongation. I was mostly looking for that part of the article. Thermoperioid.

The difference in temperature during the day/night (light/dark) perioid, known as thermoperioid has a major effect on plant growth and architecture. Through manipulating these temperatures in the right manner stretch can be greatly reduced.

So what do we want to achieve with less stem elongation?
The shorter is the space between each node where the bud grows = bigger and denser buds. And ofcourse more lateral growth can be achieved. Thus most of us already knows this, I’m not making a lecture about the stem stretch, but looking for a way how to manipulate and reduce it.

Gibberellins studies has shown that where day temperatures are lower than night temperatures bioactive GA levels are reduced in plants, and as a result, stretch is reduced.

DIF
DIF stands for the difference between day temperature (DT) and night temperature (NT).
This can be expressed as either an equal, positive or negative DIF number.

Naturally DIF is positive when day temperature is higher than night, innit? For example tent day temperature is 24C and night temp 20C thats +4 DIF.
So whats up when you change the DIF opposite?

Stem elongation is promoted by warmer days than nights, and inhibited by warmer days than nights. (-DIF) As a result, negative DIF treatment is a tool to produce compact plants with short internodes without a delay in production time. Negative DIF is most effective when applied during the stretch phase of crop cycle (e.g first 2-3 weeks of the 12/12 light cycle). Further studies show that the most active phase of stem elongation in plants occurs at the end of the dark perioid and during approximately the first 2-3 hours after sun rises.

How effective it could be in practice? Let’s test out!
I bought the mini heater earlier which helps a lot. I could maintain over 23C night temp, but I’m not 100% sure about any that higher night time temps - if it has an effect on starting of the flowering. So for now I’m having 22.5C temp during the night and RH is kept between 40-50%. And tent day temperature is 23C & at the canopy height it is 22.5C.
It is pretty close to equal DIF right now, and if I see positive effect in the couple days/week I’ll rise night temps up to 23-24C.

Second uppest node from main axis @ 12/9
This node was chosen because of its start of the growth/elongation. It passed the first two-couple days while it forms. I’m judging by the look, that is a good node to use as an experiment.
12/9 measured and ”the starting length” was 3cm / 1.3" (we could assume that between days 12/8-12/9 the elongation was 3cm/24h - which wouldn’t even be a bad stretch yet)

Then the next measurement was taken 12/11 morning. This particular node had stretched only ~2.5cm (1inch) during the past 48h.

Ofcourse there could be other factors as well which have had affect.
Generally by looking/judging the plants current growth I’d say minimal temp changes have had positive effect (less stem stretch)

And heres one more good example. The top four nodes on main axis. Top two nodes has remarkable less elongation than the two lowers. They still do grow size but pretty sure the gap will be a lot less than the lower ones.

Then we had this article about EC & moisture:

Moisture and conductivity

Whether you're growing hydro or in soil, the electrical conductivity (EC) and moisture of your medium are two key elements that should be manipulated to meet your needs. Both of these factors are controlling the same thing; the ability of a plant to uptake water and nutrients from the growth medium. (EC measures the level of fertilizer salts in the water.)

A plant grows by first dividing cells then expanding them, and in order to do this it requires water. By limiting the amount of water available to a plant you limit the expansion of cells. This can work for you by keeping your internodes close together, or against you by limiting bud growth. Both the amount of water you give your plants and the EC at which you grow them control the uptake of water.

A plant's roots act much like a pump, using osmotic pressure to move water into the plant. In order for this to work there must be a larger concentration of fertilizer salts in the plant's roots than in the soil or hydroponic solution, so when the medium's level of salt rises above the roots', the plant will wilt. Raising the salt level in the medium closer to that which is in the roots limits the water availability just the same as if we had provided less water.

During the vegetative stage we want our plants to form very tight internodes, especially under artificial lighting. By allowing the EC to drop below ideal during this stage we are wasting valuable space growing stem instead of bud. Most marijuana strains are happiest when grown at an EC of between 1.5 and 1.8, but different strains have different preferences. Try growing one of your plants using straight water for a week or so, you will see the internode length stretch dramatically compared to the ones on a regular fertilizer regime.


Hydroponic tomato growers sometimes will grow their transplants at extremely high EC's (up to 6 EC!) in order to get really nice stocky production plants. Please note that when doing this they use special nutrient formulas designed for this purpose, most of which have potassium to nitrogen ratios of 4:1, much higher than normal, as too much nitrate at this high an EC will easily damage a plant.

(Try this formula if you're interested: calcium nitrate 7 grams, potassium nitrate 0.095 grams, potassium sulphate 9.25 grams, mono potassium phosphate 2.2 gram, magnesium sulphate 5 grams, micromix .02 grams. Slowly raise your EC during veg stage, I would not recommend going above 3 or 4 EC. This is experimental! Do not try on all of your plants at once until you are sure your strain can handle it. All of these ingredients should be available at your local hydroponics store, it is usually called "six pack formula". Be sure to bring your EC back down once you enter floral stage, by the time tufts of pistils are visible you want to be at your ideal EC of 1.5-1.8.)

Try not to change the EC too quickly as a sharp drop can cause root damage. This also goes during your final flushing period when you want to eliminate all fertilizer from the medium – lower the EC over a couple of days, as the sudden change in salt level will harm the roots.

When growing hydroponically, the only way of manipulating water availability is with the EC, while in soil we may also use the moisture level of the medium to the same ends. Many growers are under the mistaken impression that the EC and pH of their nutrient solution remains the same when applied to the soil. This in not the case, and you must test the soil in order to have a true
picture.

And about Phosphorus & stem stretch:

For a continuous fertilization program for plants grown in a soilless substrate, the target concentration is between 8 ppm and 15 ppm of P. Providing levels below that will result in less plant growth, while concentrations above that level provide little benefit while costing more money. Phosphorus is also the primary contributor to plant stretch. Too much P will lead to excessive internode elongation and tall plants. That’s why it’s important to limit excessive P applications.

So the plan is to keep DIF at least equal or negative. Current reservoir runs at 1.8EC / 940ppm (when made the new res patch 6 days ago, the starting EC was 1.6) - tomorrow res change and I’ll most likely keep the current ~25ppm of P.

I’ll do both more detailed PP post later today!