Dresney's First Grow - Organic - Indoor - GDP - Trainwreck

Dresney said:
I haven't formed an opinion on it yet, but I think cutting back on most of the nitrogen was necessary for Pascalle, as she was suffering from nitrogen toxicity and several of her leaves took on a nasty curl. I figured wiping the slate clean and gradually building up to see what she tolerated would be the best route. It's easier to measure the impact of her feed by the amount of yellowing leaves (from her draining her stores) than by counting curled leaves and seeing if more curl over time.
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For my train of thought on Nitrogen during flowering I thought of cannabis plants in their natural state. As an annual plant, cannabis is meant to complete it's life cycle within one growing year. Come harvest time one would expect the plant to have used up most of it's nutrient stores including N, P and K.

However, since P and K are essential to flowering we flush that out right at the end. I can't see any need for N during the flowering stage, especially the later weeks unless we were looking for lush green leaves come harvest time.
 
Dresney said:
That being said, I've read several times that a nitrogen-depleted plant (given that the timing of depletion coincides with harvest) smokes more smoothly than one with a lot of green, nitrogen-rich leaves. I won't even be able to form an opinion on that after this grow, as I'll only have Pascalle to judge... maybe I'll flower one of her clones differently to test this myself.
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Whether or not to let your plants get depleted in the last few weeks is a thorny subject. When there are not enough nutrients in the medium it leads to degradation of the chlorophyll (the stuff that makes plants green.) Buds that have lots of chlorophyll in them smoke harsh. There is lots of evidence to support chlorophyll =harsh smoke. We can thank the tobacco farmers supported by huge amounts of research dollars, in a large part, for this evidence. Chlorophyll degradation is key to a smooth smoke. It is important to note that chlorophyll degradation takes place the whole time a bud is drying and curing. It's one of the reasons that as a nug cures it becomes a smoother smoke. A bud with more chlorophyll in it will benefit from a longer cure. Does it make sense to let the finishing plant get so depleted that the chlorophyll starts degrading in the buds themselves before they are harvested?

Point number 2: As the plant nears the end of its life cycle a variety of chemical signals lead to increased tric production and flower swelling. The sticky resinous flowers are what will catch pollen. There is lots of evidence to support this, too. It is conjectured that by letting the plant medium get depleted it increases the strength of those signals resulting in increased flower swelling and resin production. Evidence to that end is mostly observational and anecdotal. The plant still needs a healthy metabolism in order to build resin and flower mass. Therefore, there is a trade-off going on. On the one hand, we theorize that depletion increases the strength of the chemical signaling. On the other, depletion compromises the overall energy profile of the plant making it more difficult to produce the desired swelling and resin production. We can surmise that depletion will drive flower development near the end up to a certain point, but we will get to a level of depletion eventually where the overall decrease in energy production results in less swelling and resin.

Point number 3: It is thought that, perhaps, as nutrient depletion takes place the yellowing growth feeds the buds. As the growth yellows there is ever increasing cell death going on. The cell membranes rupture and release nutrients from within. The degree to which those released nutrients can be mobilized from dying growth to feed the buds is not really known. The chlorophyll degradation going on means the yellowing growth would smoke smoother, but who smokes that stuff?

Point number 4: It is thought that depletion supports smooth smoke in other ways besides chlorophyll degradation. The plant sucks up nutrients and uses them to build proteins, carbohydrates and lipids. These nutrients do not instantly become part of the plant structure. They are "available" to build cellular structure in the extracellular matrix (fluid) until they are needed. You can kinda-sorta think of that extracellular fluid matrix as "plant blood." When the buds dry the nutrients are left behind as the water portion of the matrix evaporates off. Those unused nutrients can affect the taste and smoking quality of the dried bud. The theory is that by depleting the plant before harvest there are less of those un-utilized compounds left behind in the bud resulting in a smoother, better tasting smoke.

Taking all of these things into account it seems to me that striving to deplete the plant in its final week or two is good practice but problematic to time for maximum benefit. I would rather under-deplete the plant than over-deplete it.
 
PeeJay said:
Taking all of these things into account it seems to me that striving to deplete the plant in its final week or two is good practice but problematic to time for maximum benefit. I would rather under-deplete the plant than over-deplete it.
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Very good info there PJ

Kinda the conclusion I came to when summing up my study on this.
 
CannabisMeds said:
:rofl:
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:) :high-five: :passitleft:


Mono said:
For my train of thought on Nitrogen during flowering I thought of cannabis plants in their natural state. As an annual plant, cannabis is meant to complete it's life cycle within one growing year. Come harvest time one would expect the plant to have used up most of it's nutrient stores including N, P and K.

Oh, clones are looking mighty fine as always ;)
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Makes sense to me! I'm going to force mine into eternual though with revegging. :laughtwo:

Thanks for the kind words, Mono :thanks:


Fr3d said:
Hey Dres :high-five: Pascalle v2.0 is looking good
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Thanks, Fr3d! :ciao:


PeeJay said:
Taking all of these things into account it seems to me that striving to deplete the plant in its final week or two is good practice but problematic to time for maximum benefit. I would rather under-deplete the plant than over-deplete it.
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I think this is what I'm going to be aiming for, and I may not get the timing down the first time round with each strain. I'm hoping that by keeping careful notes and taking lots of pictures I'll be able to hone in the timing when I flower the clones.


Brassic Brit said:
Very good info there PJ

Kinda the conclusion I came to when summing up my study on this.
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Heya, BB :ciao:



Budworshipper said:
And end your sobriety..
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Gah! This can't come soon enough... I'm telling you, I forget what it feels like to be high. It's really been that long.

Thanks for the compliments, Bud ;)





So I've got some good news and some bad news.

Good news first!


Here is the most vigorous bubbler clone - Europa.

She was the first to root and is shooting up happily. I think she'll be transplanted soon.

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This is Io. She hasn't done much of anything, but I might be seeing some growth on her youngest node.

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And yay, Callisto, half of the Mysterious Flowering Clones duo, is growing some leaves out of her micro-bud. :partyboy:

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And now the bad news...

I think Ganymede is going to kick the bucket.

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(Excuse my dry hand - I couldn't get the camera to focus without covering up the dirt.)

Ganymede was the second bubbler clone to be planted. She had far larger roots than Callisto and Io when she was planted, but she just hasn't been a happy camper. The main vein in her leaves turned red and she started yellowing about a week or two ago. I think maybe she had a deficiency that she couldn't overcome even after I fed her. I will probably dig her up soon to examine her roots.


I might sneak into the big girl's room at lights-out for some pictures today. Pascalle is really showing her color change now. :)


Have a great day!

:rollit:
 
There was an interesting post about the flushing and finishing process in CA's journal I saw yesterday. while he is starving the plant in the final push he takes a stem sample without much growing on it and sucks the juice out of the cut stem to taste it. It if is bitter, then there are still a lot of nutrients in the "plant blood." When it tastes more like water he deems the plant ready for chop. I :Love: that idea.
 
Well done with the clones Dres

I wouldn't be too fussed with one failure in four,

that's a great result for a first run in new DIY equipment.

When you up production you won't know what to do with them all.

The ones I rescued the other week and the new ones all using the Brassic method are all

still alive, I'm getting overwhelmed, but I have a plan.

Watch my thread over the next week for some exciting new developments :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
Kid156 said:
Sorry to hear about Ganymede, you win some you loss some.
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Yeah, I'm not too torn up about her. Although I was looking forward to having two accidental revegged girls. :yummy:



PeeJay said:
There was an interesting post about the flushing and finishing process in CA's journal I saw yesterday. while he is starving the plant in the final push he takes a stem sample without much growing on it and sucks the juice out of the cut stem to taste it. It if is bitter, then there are still a lot of nutrients in the "plant blood." When it tastes more like water he deems the plant ready for chop. I :Love: that idea.
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I love that idea too! Maybe I'll implement that towards the end. :high-five:

I can just see myself sucking on the stem... "Nope, still tastes like guano..." :partyboy:


Brassic Brit said:
When you up production you won't know what to do with them all.

The ones I rescued the other week and the new ones all using the Brassic method are all

still alive, I'm getting overwhelmed, but I have a plan.

Watch my thread over the next week for some exciting new developments :cheesygrinsmiley:
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Hehe, it's easy to get overwhelmed with clones, for sure. I'm already thinking I need to downsize. :laughtwo:

I was going to keep Pascalle v2.0 in veg until my big girls are finished but that would put her at roughly a 10 week veg... she'll be a big one too... and Blanca (WW) will be past two months at that time, as well. Having fat, bushy girls really fills up that flower room more than I like. I think I'm going to have to work out a shorter veg cycle or I'm never going to get the variety I want.

I'll definitely keep an eye out - you always have something big planned over there. :)
 
Great journal Dres ...epic read !!!!! I'll have to do it in instalments otherwise the w/ends domestics will never get done. PS loved your introductory page ..had me laughing so I too nearly tinkled my pants. Cheers Pat.
 
Brassic Brit said:
Lost me.....
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It's gone now.

I think there might have been a Squirryl around here somewhere... I see droppings. :rofl:


PatBezz said:
Great journal Dres ...epic read !!!!! I'll have to do it in instalments otherwise the w/ends domestics will never get done. PS loved your introductory page ..had me laughing so I too nearly tinkled my pants. Cheers Pat.
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Thank you very much!! I'm glad you've enjoyed it so far.

I try to be funny, but sometimes it just comes out nerdy. :geek:

Glad to have you here! :high-five:
 
heres more to your question on the other thread. Adding extra nitrogen to your tea is a good thing the soil microbes eat it and make it more available to the plant.
 
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