Donpaul.p's Latest 400 Watt HPS Grow
- Thread starter donpaul.p
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #462
hi all,
hope everyone has been having a good day,
i find that if you let a plant reach maturity so its showing sex while in veg, this is usually around 6 to 8 weeks depending on strain,
if the plant is mature and shows sex then their is less stretch,
but lets look at why stretch happens and how we can lower the amount of stretch when flipped to flower,
when you go from 20-4 or 24-0 or even 18-6 their is some stretch, how ever your plants stretch more if you go from 24-0 or 20-4 to 12-12, the plants are used to long days under them schedules so when flipped to 12-12 they stretch a lot more than they do using 18-6, if you didnt want any stretch at all then using the gas lantern routine will elimnate a lot of the stretch,
so why does stretch happen?
well stretch happens due to the dark period and not due to the plant starting to flower, when the plant is in the dark its basically doing 3 jobs, a plant never sleeps as such,
1, its repairing damage done in the day time, so removing leaves, lst,topping or fim method basically any form of stress is repaired during the dark hours,
2, during the dark period plants send nutrients back down the plant and this encourages the roots to grow, so at night the root mass is growing, during tests it was proven that dwc plants grew more roots under 18-6 than 20-4 and 24-0 had the smallest root mass during the stage of growth
3, stretch, plants stretch when the lights off, so flipping from 24-0 and 20-4 causes more stretch than 18-6 when you flip to 12-12, when the lights are off the plant stretches to find the light, its the same reason lower branches stretch and have big node spaces, if you put a plant in the shade then the plant will stretch till it finds the light again, its why seedlings grow out of the soil as their stretching to get to the light, so during the dark period their doing a small amount of stretching during veg, under 24-0 the stretch is less as their is no dark period, but if you use 24-0 then you will notice a point in the day where the leaves droop and the plant is doing its night time work, so it still does the 3 night tasks but not as well, under 20-4 the plants stretch but again not much as the dark period is not long enough as some of them 4 hours of dark are taken up by the plant changing to the night period as it needs so much dark before the plant starts doing its tasks.
so their is less stretch in veg using 24-0 and less stretch in veg using 20-4, plants tend to be very bushy and dont grow as quick in height, under 18-6 the plants grow as normal and end up pretty big and produce well, also the 6 hours of dark is enough time for the plant to do a small amount of stretching and it also has time to grow the roots,
more roots mean the plant can take in more nutrients and more water, so this is needed due to the plants stretching and getting bigger,
but you can grow nice plants under 24-0 and 20-4 as ive done it myself and it works well, but when you flip to 12-12 the plant goes crazy to try and find the light and you can get lots of stretch in the first 2 to 3 weeks of flower.
under 18-6 the stretch is a lot less when you flip 12-12 as the plant is used to the night period, stretch can also be reduced if you reduce the veg period a few days or a week at a time, so 18-6 would become 16-8, then 14-10 then 12-12 over the space of 2 or more weeks,
so what about GLR or gas lantern routine,
well glr is 12 hours of light, 5.5 hours of darl, 1 hour of light, 5.5 hours of dark then back to the 12 hours of day light.
plants grow quick under glr as their getting the bets of both worlds, their getting 12 hours of light and nearly 12 hours of dark, their getting 11 hours of dark during the lights off but they get an hours worth of light in the middle of the dark period as this is enough to stop the flowering hormones building up so it dont actually go into flower.
so using glr the plant will grow quick which is proven, ive tried it, jandre is using it now followed by a deminishing light schedule for flower,
so glr keeps the plant growing at a steady pace, roots grow well and the plant reaches maturity a lot quicker, ive had plants show sex at week 3 and 4 of veg, some growers think the plants are starting to flower under glr as they have never let a plant grow long enough in veg to show sex, so ive seen growers concerned that their plants are flowering but their not flowering their just showing sex, so using glr you can pick males out quicker, but does glr work with autos, the only reason im not using glr anymore is because im working with auto strains, so glr may be ok while their in veg and might even produce bigger plants, but it could also cause them to go hermie if you dont stop the glr early enough so ive not risked it but will try it at some point with an auto, might try it with cfls once i produce enough auto seeds then i can just run 1 plant under glr from start to finish and see if it causes the plant to go hermie.
so as glr is basically 12-12 but during the dark period you give it one hour of light to stop it flowering, then when the plant is big enough and you want to flip it to 12-12 then their is little to no stretch at all, the plant has basically been growing under 12-12 from day 1, growth is rapid and plants get big really quick under glr, so when you flip 12-12 the plant dont have the stretch period as its used to that light schedule so stretch is very low if any at all dependong on strain,
also using glr the plant is building up high amounts of flowering hormones, your keeping it out of flower by giving it 1 hour of light in the dark period, but as the plant is been tricked into staying in veg then this makes the plant build up high levels of flowering hormones and plants start to flower quicker and produce huge buds, its best if you use dls for flower as this follows an outdoor flower season and plants can finish quicker without reducing yeild,
so 2 limit stretch you have a few options,
1 use 18-6 or even 17-7 then when you flip 12-12 stretch wont be as much as it is under 20-4 and 24-0
2 let the plant reach maturity before flipping to 12-12, this works but depends how big the plant is going to get in the veg period, also plants grown under 24-0 and 20-4 take longer to show sex, where as 18-6 shows sex sooner.
3 you can reduce the light schedule over a period of time, so 24-0 would become 20-4, then it would be 16-8, etc etc until you got down to 12-12, that would also limit stretch,
4 now i think this is the best option and ive used it often, when you flip to 12-12 remove the top set of fan leaves on the main stem and all the branches, this slows upwards growth and growth at the nodes then does the stretching instead of the main stem or lower branches, if you find the plant is still stretching then when the new set of fan leaves are formed just remove these, that will also stop stretch but the rest of the plant will still bush out as that will grow as normal,
so theirs a few options, it depends on strain, how long in veg and what method you want to try, you also have the option of pulling the top over when you dont want it to stretch anymore, so lets say you go 12-12 and its stretching to much and your running out of height, well use some lst and pull the main stem over and pull the other branches down so that its no longer growing upwards, this can affect yield as the top bud is not allowed to grow up as normal.
so depending on what option you choose would depend on the results, if you want to flip strait to 12-12 before the plant is mature enough then you need to remember it takes a few weeks before it shows sex, so you could have 3 weeks of stretch or more depending on how old the plant is,
some indicas will double in size if put to 12-12 before showing sex, could possibly be 1.5 times as high,
staivas or sativa heavy strains will usually tripping in size if flipped 12-12 before its mature enough to show sex,
the problem is if you want to grow it till it show sex then the plant could still get pretty big before you go 12-12, to keep the plants lower you can use lst or even super cropping as that would stop upwards growth while the plant repaired itself.
hope everyone has been having a good day,
i find that if you let a plant reach maturity so its showing sex while in veg, this is usually around 6 to 8 weeks depending on strain,
if the plant is mature and shows sex then their is less stretch,
but lets look at why stretch happens and how we can lower the amount of stretch when flipped to flower,
when you go from 20-4 or 24-0 or even 18-6 their is some stretch, how ever your plants stretch more if you go from 24-0 or 20-4 to 12-12, the plants are used to long days under them schedules so when flipped to 12-12 they stretch a lot more than they do using 18-6, if you didnt want any stretch at all then using the gas lantern routine will elimnate a lot of the stretch,
so why does stretch happen?
well stretch happens due to the dark period and not due to the plant starting to flower, when the plant is in the dark its basically doing 3 jobs, a plant never sleeps as such,
1, its repairing damage done in the day time, so removing leaves, lst,topping or fim method basically any form of stress is repaired during the dark hours,
2, during the dark period plants send nutrients back down the plant and this encourages the roots to grow, so at night the root mass is growing, during tests it was proven that dwc plants grew more roots under 18-6 than 20-4 and 24-0 had the smallest root mass during the stage of growth
3, stretch, plants stretch when the lights off, so flipping from 24-0 and 20-4 causes more stretch than 18-6 when you flip to 12-12, when the lights are off the plant stretches to find the light, its the same reason lower branches stretch and have big node spaces, if you put a plant in the shade then the plant will stretch till it finds the light again, its why seedlings grow out of the soil as their stretching to get to the light, so during the dark period their doing a small amount of stretching during veg, under 24-0 the stretch is less as their is no dark period, but if you use 24-0 then you will notice a point in the day where the leaves droop and the plant is doing its night time work, so it still does the 3 night tasks but not as well, under 20-4 the plants stretch but again not much as the dark period is not long enough as some of them 4 hours of dark are taken up by the plant changing to the night period as it needs so much dark before the plant starts doing its tasks.
so their is less stretch in veg using 24-0 and less stretch in veg using 20-4, plants tend to be very bushy and dont grow as quick in height, under 18-6 the plants grow as normal and end up pretty big and produce well, also the 6 hours of dark is enough time for the plant to do a small amount of stretching and it also has time to grow the roots,
more roots mean the plant can take in more nutrients and more water, so this is needed due to the plants stretching and getting bigger,
but you can grow nice plants under 24-0 and 20-4 as ive done it myself and it works well, but when you flip to 12-12 the plant goes crazy to try and find the light and you can get lots of stretch in the first 2 to 3 weeks of flower.
under 18-6 the stretch is a lot less when you flip 12-12 as the plant is used to the night period, stretch can also be reduced if you reduce the veg period a few days or a week at a time, so 18-6 would become 16-8, then 14-10 then 12-12 over the space of 2 or more weeks,
so what about GLR or gas lantern routine,
well glr is 12 hours of light, 5.5 hours of darl, 1 hour of light, 5.5 hours of dark then back to the 12 hours of day light.
plants grow quick under glr as their getting the bets of both worlds, their getting 12 hours of light and nearly 12 hours of dark, their getting 11 hours of dark during the lights off but they get an hours worth of light in the middle of the dark period as this is enough to stop the flowering hormones building up so it dont actually go into flower.
so using glr the plant will grow quick which is proven, ive tried it, jandre is using it now followed by a deminishing light schedule for flower,
so glr keeps the plant growing at a steady pace, roots grow well and the plant reaches maturity a lot quicker, ive had plants show sex at week 3 and 4 of veg, some growers think the plants are starting to flower under glr as they have never let a plant grow long enough in veg to show sex, so ive seen growers concerned that their plants are flowering but their not flowering their just showing sex, so using glr you can pick males out quicker, but does glr work with autos, the only reason im not using glr anymore is because im working with auto strains, so glr may be ok while their in veg and might even produce bigger plants, but it could also cause them to go hermie if you dont stop the glr early enough so ive not risked it but will try it at some point with an auto, might try it with cfls once i produce enough auto seeds then i can just run 1 plant under glr from start to finish and see if it causes the plant to go hermie.
so as glr is basically 12-12 but during the dark period you give it one hour of light to stop it flowering, then when the plant is big enough and you want to flip it to 12-12 then their is little to no stretch at all, the plant has basically been growing under 12-12 from day 1, growth is rapid and plants get big really quick under glr, so when you flip 12-12 the plant dont have the stretch period as its used to that light schedule so stretch is very low if any at all dependong on strain,
also using glr the plant is building up high amounts of flowering hormones, your keeping it out of flower by giving it 1 hour of light in the dark period, but as the plant is been tricked into staying in veg then this makes the plant build up high levels of flowering hormones and plants start to flower quicker and produce huge buds, its best if you use dls for flower as this follows an outdoor flower season and plants can finish quicker without reducing yeild,
so 2 limit stretch you have a few options,
1 use 18-6 or even 17-7 then when you flip 12-12 stretch wont be as much as it is under 20-4 and 24-0
2 let the plant reach maturity before flipping to 12-12, this works but depends how big the plant is going to get in the veg period, also plants grown under 24-0 and 20-4 take longer to show sex, where as 18-6 shows sex sooner.
3 you can reduce the light schedule over a period of time, so 24-0 would become 20-4, then it would be 16-8, etc etc until you got down to 12-12, that would also limit stretch,
4 now i think this is the best option and ive used it often, when you flip to 12-12 remove the top set of fan leaves on the main stem and all the branches, this slows upwards growth and growth at the nodes then does the stretching instead of the main stem or lower branches, if you find the plant is still stretching then when the new set of fan leaves are formed just remove these, that will also stop stretch but the rest of the plant will still bush out as that will grow as normal,
so theirs a few options, it depends on strain, how long in veg and what method you want to try, you also have the option of pulling the top over when you dont want it to stretch anymore, so lets say you go 12-12 and its stretching to much and your running out of height, well use some lst and pull the main stem over and pull the other branches down so that its no longer growing upwards, this can affect yield as the top bud is not allowed to grow up as normal.
so depending on what option you choose would depend on the results, if you want to flip strait to 12-12 before the plant is mature enough then you need to remember it takes a few weeks before it shows sex, so you could have 3 weeks of stretch or more depending on how old the plant is,
some indicas will double in size if put to 12-12 before showing sex, could possibly be 1.5 times as high,
staivas or sativa heavy strains will usually tripping in size if flipped 12-12 before its mature enough to show sex,
the problem is if you want to grow it till it show sex then the plant could still get pretty big before you go 12-12, to keep the plants lower you can use lst or even super cropping as that would stop upwards growth while the plant repaired itself.
- Thread starter
- #463
Warning, the next post will contain images that may cause distress or alarm, they contains pictures of abuse so if this is something that may affect you then please look away until we are on the next page.
for those who like experiments then have a look at these pics of abuse.
the abuse was planned, it was not an accident,
for those who like experiments then have a look at these pics of abuse.
the abuse was planned, it was not an accident,
miwa
New Member
Not yet..
geturgrowon
Well-Known Member
hey jimmy where can u find the 20 micro screen from?
runewulfsong
New Member
Hey Don... don't forget, sometimes even with 18/6 when you go to 12/12 you still more than double height.... that mainline'd mystery machine trippled in height after almost 10 weeks veg under CFL. Once it went into the flower tent it exploded. I'm actually hoping after last night's defol it didn't stretch more in the dark period it's in right now, lol. It's now "breast height" on my girl, when it went into the tent 3 week ago, it was knee height on her, lol. She's very sativa dominant though. I think if you up pot right before flower, you'll get more stretch as well, that's what I did this time, so that an the sativa genes made it explode. It's siblings that I up potted only after they showed pistils and kept LSTd low went very bushy, but I kept them tied tight down through stretch to see if I could bush them by mainlining and keeping the light going to the center of the X and it seems to have worked.
Now where are the "disturbing images"?
Now where are the "disturbing images"?
miwa
New Member
yep...took my sati off LST and she went to the moon
- Thread starter
- #468
ok, here is the pics of abuse,
the 2ltr dwc critical mass sensi star was defoliated twice in veg to some extent, now its finished its stretch and the small branches and shoots have now stopped growing as their not well into flower and all thats left to do is for the buds to fatten up ready for harvest, now the buds are a % of leaf in any plant, so i have been brutal and butchered my 2ltr dwc, ive only tried this with the dwc due to how quick the dwc grows seem to bounce back and grow after any stress or training,
ive used defol method in the past along with lolly popping and i ended up with a single bud the same size as a 2ltr pop bottle, the pics are in my other journal and ill try and find it and post it here to so you can what i did last time and the results i got,
now i have not lolly popped this 2ltr dwc hempie, ive let it grow as normal with a small amount of veg time then its been 12-12 ever since, so i have been brutal and over the top in what i have done, i have done this so i can clearly see the process and whats happening so instead of removing leaves with a 2inch stem i have removed all leaves that i could get to, if it had a stem and i cud got a sharp knife to it then it was removed,
so thats what ive done, if it gives me a lower yield or turns the plant hermie than its not a huge problem and lesson learned, but doing a small defol method dont really show me or us either way if its working or not, for well we know the plants can lose a few leaves and it dont affect growth or increase bud size as the defol method is supposed to do,
so ive stripped the plant naked, their is nothing left apart from buds and the leaves coming out of the buds, this will give me a good idea of whats going on and how the defol method increases bud size, is it because the plant forces leaves to grow inside the buds making the buds bigger, or does defol not making much difference, so i have gone totally over the top and removed everything, i can then montor the plant between now and harvest and can take pics to see the progress, it may make no difference or it might make a difference, the plant is far enough in flower now so its no longer growing as such, the lower branches have not grown longer or the stem as it measures what it did a week ago, so removing the leaves wont affect branch of stem growth as that had stopped due to it been towards the end of flower,
so these pics below will show you what i have done to the plant, i done this knowing the risks and if anyone wants to report me to the plant protection agency then make sure you tell them it was a mutual decision between a plant and its owner, my plant was well looked after and suffered no abuse apart from the odd leaf removed during veg, we both agree that this abuse was not abuse and it was just something that we both wanted to do, we both agreed to me stripping my plant naked and then it was agreed that i take pics and post them online for other people to see. so both me and the plant are in full agreement with this abuse, i have permision to post naked pictures of my plant, plus she is a very nice plant and im sure she is very proud that many people want to look at her naked limbs and flowers,
so joking aside this has been done as a test, if it was the only plant i got in flower then i would of left it to grow as is but ive tried defol in the past and it worked but it was not proof it worked well, for all i know i could of got big buds without using defol method on the last 2ltr plant that produce a huge bud, this time round i can see each day what happens and how the plant responds and how it deals with the stress, i expect to see no change in the first week then after that im thinking either the buds will fatten up as the plant is forced to grow, but as its in flower then will this force the plant to produce more buds as it cant replace leaves due to it been this fair in flower,
so only time will tell how this works out, plus i can see and all you can see exactly what happens and we can then see the end results and decide if this is a method worth using in the future
so below is the pics of my very sexy naked lady. all i can do now is see how this plays out and keep checking for signs of hermie or sings of it not recovering,
so their you go everyone, let me know what you think,
im also hoping ive got a plant thats as nice as the ak47 x uk cherry cheese, so far ive not grown a strain that looks or smells as nice as the ak47 x cherry cheese, its buds are dense and really stinky, the buds look almost white due to the high numbers of trichs, im glad ive managed to produce seeds of that strain as id be pretty gutted if i never did and found out i cant get a plant as nice, im really holding on to high hops that the big buddha cheese is the true uk clone only cheese, if it is then that should smash the ak x cheese in strength and looks and smell, if its the true uk cheese then the buds will a nice light green colour and should stink the whole place it,
the 2ltr dwc critical mass sensi star was defoliated twice in veg to some extent, now its finished its stretch and the small branches and shoots have now stopped growing as their not well into flower and all thats left to do is for the buds to fatten up ready for harvest, now the buds are a % of leaf in any plant, so i have been brutal and butchered my 2ltr dwc, ive only tried this with the dwc due to how quick the dwc grows seem to bounce back and grow after any stress or training,
ive used defol method in the past along with lolly popping and i ended up with a single bud the same size as a 2ltr pop bottle, the pics are in my other journal and ill try and find it and post it here to so you can what i did last time and the results i got,
now i have not lolly popped this 2ltr dwc hempie, ive let it grow as normal with a small amount of veg time then its been 12-12 ever since, so i have been brutal and over the top in what i have done, i have done this so i can clearly see the process and whats happening so instead of removing leaves with a 2inch stem i have removed all leaves that i could get to, if it had a stem and i cud got a sharp knife to it then it was removed,
so thats what ive done, if it gives me a lower yield or turns the plant hermie than its not a huge problem and lesson learned, but doing a small defol method dont really show me or us either way if its working or not, for well we know the plants can lose a few leaves and it dont affect growth or increase bud size as the defol method is supposed to do,
so ive stripped the plant naked, their is nothing left apart from buds and the leaves coming out of the buds, this will give me a good idea of whats going on and how the defol method increases bud size, is it because the plant forces leaves to grow inside the buds making the buds bigger, or does defol not making much difference, so i have gone totally over the top and removed everything, i can then montor the plant between now and harvest and can take pics to see the progress, it may make no difference or it might make a difference, the plant is far enough in flower now so its no longer growing as such, the lower branches have not grown longer or the stem as it measures what it did a week ago, so removing the leaves wont affect branch of stem growth as that had stopped due to it been towards the end of flower,
so these pics below will show you what i have done to the plant, i done this knowing the risks and if anyone wants to report me to the plant protection agency then make sure you tell them it was a mutual decision between a plant and its owner, my plant was well looked after and suffered no abuse apart from the odd leaf removed during veg, we both agree that this abuse was not abuse and it was just something that we both wanted to do, we both agreed to me stripping my plant naked and then it was agreed that i take pics and post them online for other people to see. so both me and the plant are in full agreement with this abuse, i have permision to post naked pictures of my plant, plus she is a very nice plant and im sure she is very proud that many people want to look at her naked limbs and flowers,
so joking aside this has been done as a test, if it was the only plant i got in flower then i would of left it to grow as is but ive tried defol in the past and it worked but it was not proof it worked well, for all i know i could of got big buds without using defol method on the last 2ltr plant that produce a huge bud, this time round i can see each day what happens and how the plant responds and how it deals with the stress, i expect to see no change in the first week then after that im thinking either the buds will fatten up as the plant is forced to grow, but as its in flower then will this force the plant to produce more buds as it cant replace leaves due to it been this fair in flower,
so only time will tell how this works out, plus i can see and all you can see exactly what happens and we can then see the end results and decide if this is a method worth using in the future
so below is the pics of my very sexy naked lady. all i can do now is see how this plays out and keep checking for signs of hermie or sings of it not recovering,
so their you go everyone, let me know what you think,
im also hoping ive got a plant thats as nice as the ak47 x uk cherry cheese, so far ive not grown a strain that looks or smells as nice as the ak47 x cherry cheese, its buds are dense and really stinky, the buds look almost white due to the high numbers of trichs, im glad ive managed to produce seeds of that strain as id be pretty gutted if i never did and found out i cant get a plant as nice, im really holding on to high hops that the big buddha cheese is the true uk clone only cheese, if it is then that should smash the ak x cheese in strength and looks and smell, if its the true uk cheese then the buds will a nice light green colour and should stink the whole place it,
- Thread starter
- #469
@runewulf, yours doubled in size but was you using cfls in the flower room, if not then a plant in veg will get much bigger if you went from say cfls to mh, cfls you can keep close so the plants dont stretch as their at the light sourcr, but when you move from cfls to hid the plants then stretch as their much further from the light so ive noticed this when i went from cfls to dual spec hps in veg,
but the standard is an indica will double in size when you flip 12-12 and a satvia will tripple in size, so if you stick to them guides then you know you will have enough room plus your expecting it to get that big so if it comes short then your not sweating on it getting close to the light,
the best option would be to train the plant to some extent using lst or just remove the top set of fan leaves and the new set forming as that will slow the stretch down a bit, but the more training you do the more time it will take to recover, so if you go by the standard stretch guide at double for indica then you wont be far off,
the only thing that will make it more than double or tripple in size is if you flip to 12-12 really early, if you do this then the plant might have 4 weeks or more before it actaully starts flowering. i know a mature plant stretches less as i found this out myself and i usually let me plants reach maturity before flipping as its suppose to increase yield if you let the plant mature, not because the plant is bigger but because the plant is actually ready to start flowering when it shows sex so stretch is less as the plant will start flowering within 7 days, where as flipping to 12-12 before it shows sex means you got 2 or 3 or more weeks of veg before it actually shows sex and starts flowering, so the less time it has before it matures the less it will stretch, plants that are mature will flower pretty quick when they are given 12-12, plants that are not mature will stretch under 12-12 until they are in flower, so the stretch period can be longer if the plant is not mature when you flip 12-12, so if this is the case then id use some training method to keep the plant steady.
create a spiral shaped tomatoe type age and grow the plant around the spiral then stretch can be controlled as you can just train the plant around the poll,
but once you have grown a few plants you will be able to judge it a lot better so the first few harvest will be more of a learning curve then once you have grown and harvested a few plants you will then be able to do whats best for you and best for the plants, each grower will have different methods and different grow spaces so you may need to control how bushy it is or how tall it gets, their is much to learn and im still learning with each grow.
so enjoy growing remember the plants are weeds and it takes a lot to kill them, they need very little care when grown in soil, hydro is not a lot more but setting up hydro has to be done then ph and ppms have to be checked every day or 2 days, hydro produces the fastest growing plants and flowers much quicker, so it has its benefits, some growers say soil grown organic plants taste smoother and have a cleaner taste to them, i have had my dwc buds and soil buds next to each other and sampled both and if i pulled the labels off the jars then i would not be able to tell which bud is from soil or dwc, so i cant notice the difference, it tastes, smells and smokes the same so for me the difference is minimul if any at all, i just cant risk going with a big hydro set up as it would look like a pro set up where as at the minute all ive done is planted seeds in soil and added water,
honest thats all i did, got some seed in my bud, popped them in some soil then added water, i know nothing about growing, but with hyro i cant exactly say that as i have had to buy equipment and know how to set it up and use nutrients and everything else, im not saying a hydro grow is any harder before anyone pulls me up on this, i know i can leave my soil plants for a week without been here if i had to but im sure i couldnt do that with hydro,
but the standard is an indica will double in size when you flip 12-12 and a satvia will tripple in size, so if you stick to them guides then you know you will have enough room plus your expecting it to get that big so if it comes short then your not sweating on it getting close to the light,
the best option would be to train the plant to some extent using lst or just remove the top set of fan leaves and the new set forming as that will slow the stretch down a bit, but the more training you do the more time it will take to recover, so if you go by the standard stretch guide at double for indica then you wont be far off,
the only thing that will make it more than double or tripple in size is if you flip to 12-12 really early, if you do this then the plant might have 4 weeks or more before it actaully starts flowering. i know a mature plant stretches less as i found this out myself and i usually let me plants reach maturity before flipping as its suppose to increase yield if you let the plant mature, not because the plant is bigger but because the plant is actually ready to start flowering when it shows sex so stretch is less as the plant will start flowering within 7 days, where as flipping to 12-12 before it shows sex means you got 2 or 3 or more weeks of veg before it actually shows sex and starts flowering, so the less time it has before it matures the less it will stretch, plants that are mature will flower pretty quick when they are given 12-12, plants that are not mature will stretch under 12-12 until they are in flower, so the stretch period can be longer if the plant is not mature when you flip 12-12, so if this is the case then id use some training method to keep the plant steady.
create a spiral shaped tomatoe type age and grow the plant around the spiral then stretch can be controlled as you can just train the plant around the poll,
but once you have grown a few plants you will be able to judge it a lot better so the first few harvest will be more of a learning curve then once you have grown and harvested a few plants you will then be able to do whats best for you and best for the plants, each grower will have different methods and different grow spaces so you may need to control how bushy it is or how tall it gets, their is much to learn and im still learning with each grow.
so enjoy growing remember the plants are weeds and it takes a lot to kill them, they need very little care when grown in soil, hydro is not a lot more but setting up hydro has to be done then ph and ppms have to be checked every day or 2 days, hydro produces the fastest growing plants and flowers much quicker, so it has its benefits, some growers say soil grown organic plants taste smoother and have a cleaner taste to them, i have had my dwc buds and soil buds next to each other and sampled both and if i pulled the labels off the jars then i would not be able to tell which bud is from soil or dwc, so i cant notice the difference, it tastes, smells and smokes the same so for me the difference is minimul if any at all, i just cant risk going with a big hydro set up as it would look like a pro set up where as at the minute all ive done is planted seeds in soil and added water,
honest thats all i did, got some seed in my bud, popped them in some soil then added water, i know nothing about growing, but with hyro i cant exactly say that as i have had to buy equipment and know how to set it up and use nutrients and everything else, im not saying a hydro grow is any harder before anyone pulls me up on this, i know i can leave my soil plants for a week without been here if i had to but im sure i couldnt do that with hydro,
miwa
New Member
give that naked Lady some carbs..you got some nice size buds coming..i stripped mine like that...then i took the net off...i should have kept her under LST..bud size increasing..
nice girl Don Happy Tokerday 
runewulfsong
New Member
What Cronic said 
- Thread starter
- #473
thanks both, what you recomend miwa, ive only used nutes to feed my plants so not tried anything else at all, just nutrients and my magic touch, i really cant believe ive not had any problems since i started growing, ive had fungus gnats but nothing major like nute lockout or crap like that, ive even used the same soil twice before with no problems, the nutrients seem to keep the plants very happy no matter what im growing them in, i will pick up some perlite for my next round of plants though as im using just compost strait out the bag, so im sure i could improve the health of the roots a bit by giving some perlite in the mix, but should i mess with something thats working,
do i want to change what im doing as im getting good results with no real issues, i dont think perlite will cause any problems but ive not used it so cant comment, but im sure it dont contain anything that would cause problems, maybe it will affect drainage and ill need to water more or less often but i think the roots will benefit more form having something added to the compost, i did try to treat my ladies well by spending £19.99 on a bag of compost, i put them in it and they went crazy with serious N problems, so i went back to £2.00 per big bag and had no problems with the cheap stuff, the expensive compost was marked as cuttings and seedling compost yet it fried all my seedlings and turned my big plants into claws, so that did cause me a problem but it was easy to fix as i knew it could only be the soil.
so touch wood ill be problem free unless i mess up myself,
so what do you recomend miwa, might not be able to get the same brand name but if you give me a rough idea of whats in it then ill see what i can pick up, or are you just talking about golden syrup or mollases as yous call it over where you are,
we call it golden syrup, i spent ages going round garden centers looking for mollases and couldnt find it anywhere, then i get home and search the net for something similar and found out that you call it mollases and we call it golden syrup or treacle, i think it was golden syrup but id need to double check, so if thats what your talking about then i got a big tub of that in the kitchen that i use for making cakes, so if thats the same stuff then i dont mind using it but i need to make sure its mollases, but the internet tells me in the uk we call it golden syrup,
so if its that i got plenty but will need to check how much to use, the only extra thing my plants get from time to time is fish tank water, when i clean my fish tank out every couple of months i drain most the water out the tank then the last 1/4 of the tank is all the mess from the fish, so i do use this on my plants as most nutrients are made of of nitrates and nitrites which is what fish produce in plenty,
i also see an improvement in my plants after using it as well, for a few days to a week after they seem to really do well and look a really nice shade of green, so i think the fish tank water is giving the plants more of what they need, they seem to be liking it anyways so they get a good watering with that every 8 to 12 weeks depending on how much mess my fish tank is in.
or if you mean another product miwa then let me know what it is then i can try and source it, anything that will improve the health of the plants and yield will be a huge bonus.
ive used defol before but only removed leaves that have a stem of a certain size but this time ive totally stripped it down so their is nothing more i can take off unless i cut into the buds, ive done this in veg as well and plants bounce back with plenty of growth but the more you take the longer it takes to bounce back, but as im this far in flower i thought id give it a try and strip it this much as the plant has finished growing as such and the smaller branches have now formed buds so their not growing so i stripped it back just to see what happens, all thats left for the plant to do now is fatten up, if it was still in early stages of flower then i wouldnt of stripped it this much i would of just removed fan leaves and left the rest,
but as their is no more growth as such left to do i removed everything, i just wanted to see what happens and how the plant reacts and how it affects the buds, i will take pics every few days to compare with but if this method works well and the buds just fatten up then i may use this method again, i know i went over the top and removed a hell of a lot, but ive left it late in flower to do this so i wouldnt of done it if i wasnt more than half way into flower but as upwards growth has stopped and branch growth has stopped then this just leaves the buds to grow, so removing all leaves and just leaving the buds might then help the plant focus its energy on the buds, if the leaves are not using nutrients but the plant still has the same amount of roots then the buds will be getting a lot more nutrient than they was when all the leaves where on the plant, at least thats my thinking anyway,
so all been well the plant should just fatten up now, not expecting any change in the next week but after that im expecting the buds to fatten up as the plant is forced to just use nutrients at the buds, this may encourage leaves to grow out of the buds or it may just force the buds to get fatter, lets hope it does help the buds get bigger, will be a good experiment, ive not just defol ive totally stripped the pland of as much leave as possible,
do i want to change what im doing as im getting good results with no real issues, i dont think perlite will cause any problems but ive not used it so cant comment, but im sure it dont contain anything that would cause problems, maybe it will affect drainage and ill need to water more or less often but i think the roots will benefit more form having something added to the compost, i did try to treat my ladies well by spending £19.99 on a bag of compost, i put them in it and they went crazy with serious N problems, so i went back to £2.00 per big bag and had no problems with the cheap stuff, the expensive compost was marked as cuttings and seedling compost yet it fried all my seedlings and turned my big plants into claws, so that did cause me a problem but it was easy to fix as i knew it could only be the soil.
so touch wood ill be problem free unless i mess up myself,
so what do you recomend miwa, might not be able to get the same brand name but if you give me a rough idea of whats in it then ill see what i can pick up, or are you just talking about golden syrup or mollases as yous call it over where you are,
we call it golden syrup, i spent ages going round garden centers looking for mollases and couldnt find it anywhere, then i get home and search the net for something similar and found out that you call it mollases and we call it golden syrup or treacle, i think it was golden syrup but id need to double check, so if thats what your talking about then i got a big tub of that in the kitchen that i use for making cakes, so if thats the same stuff then i dont mind using it but i need to make sure its mollases, but the internet tells me in the uk we call it golden syrup,
so if its that i got plenty but will need to check how much to use, the only extra thing my plants get from time to time is fish tank water, when i clean my fish tank out every couple of months i drain most the water out the tank then the last 1/4 of the tank is all the mess from the fish, so i do use this on my plants as most nutrients are made of of nitrates and nitrites which is what fish produce in plenty,
i also see an improvement in my plants after using it as well, for a few days to a week after they seem to really do well and look a really nice shade of green, so i think the fish tank water is giving the plants more of what they need, they seem to be liking it anyways so they get a good watering with that every 8 to 12 weeks depending on how much mess my fish tank is in.
or if you mean another product miwa then let me know what it is then i can try and source it, anything that will improve the health of the plants and yield will be a huge bonus.
ive used defol before but only removed leaves that have a stem of a certain size but this time ive totally stripped it down so their is nothing more i can take off unless i cut into the buds, ive done this in veg as well and plants bounce back with plenty of growth but the more you take the longer it takes to bounce back, but as im this far in flower i thought id give it a try and strip it this much as the plant has finished growing as such and the smaller branches have now formed buds so their not growing so i stripped it back just to see what happens, all thats left for the plant to do now is fatten up, if it was still in early stages of flower then i wouldnt of stripped it this much i would of just removed fan leaves and left the rest,
but as their is no more growth as such left to do i removed everything, i just wanted to see what happens and how the plant reacts and how it affects the buds, i will take pics every few days to compare with but if this method works well and the buds just fatten up then i may use this method again, i know i went over the top and removed a hell of a lot, but ive left it late in flower to do this so i wouldnt of done it if i wasnt more than half way into flower but as upwards growth has stopped and branch growth has stopped then this just leaves the buds to grow, so removing all leaves and just leaving the buds might then help the plant focus its energy on the buds, if the leaves are not using nutrients but the plant still has the same amount of roots then the buds will be getting a lot more nutrient than they was when all the leaves where on the plant, at least thats my thinking anyway,
so all been well the plant should just fatten up now, not expecting any change in the next week but after that im expecting the buds to fatten up as the plant is forced to just use nutrients at the buds, this may encourage leaves to grow out of the buds or it may just force the buds to get fatter, lets hope it does help the buds get bigger, will be a good experiment, ive not just defol ive totally stripped the pland of as much leave as possible,
Medicatetoday
New Member
ok, here is the pics of abuse,
the 2ltr dwc critical mass sensi star was defoliated twice in veg to some extent, now its finished its stretch and the small branches and shoots have now stopped growing as their not well into flower and all thats left to do is for the buds to fatten up ready for harvest, now the buds are a % of leaf in any plant, so i have been brutal and butchered my 2ltr dwc, ive only tried this with the dwc due to how quick the dwc grows seem to bounce back and grow after any stress or training,
ive used defol method in the past along with lolly popping and i ended up with a single bud the same size as a 2ltr pop bottle, the pics are in my other journal and ill try and find it and post it here to so you can what i did last time and the results i got,
now i have not lolly popped this 2ltr dwc hempie, ive let it grow as normal with a small amount of veg time then its been 12-12 ever since, so i have been brutal and over the top in what i have done, i have done this so i can clearly see the process and whats happening so instead of removing leaves with a 2inch stem i have removed all leaves that i could get to, if it had a stem and i cud got a sharp knife to it then it was removed,
so thats what ive done, if it gives me a lower yield or turns the plant hermie than its not a huge problem and lesson learned, but doing a small defol method dont really show me or us either way if its working or not, for well we know the plants can lose a few leaves and it dont affect growth or increase bud size as the defol method is supposed to do,
so ive stripped the plant naked, their is nothing left apart from buds and the leaves coming out of the buds, this will give me a good idea of whats going on and how the defol method increases bud size, is it because the plant forces leaves to grow inside the buds making the buds bigger, or does defol not making much difference, so i have gone totally over the top and removed everything, i can then montor the plant between now and harvest and can take pics to see the progress, it may make no difference or it might make a difference, the plant is far enough in flower now so its no longer growing as such, the lower branches have not grown longer or the stem as it measures what it did a week ago, so removing the leaves wont affect branch of stem growth as that had stopped due to it been towards the end of flower,
so these pics below will show you what i have done to the plant, i done this knowing the risks and if anyone wants to report me to the plant protection agency then make sure you tell them it was a mutual decision between a plant and its owner, my plant was well looked after and suffered no abuse apart from the odd leaf removed during veg, we both agree that this abuse was not abuse and it was just something that we both wanted to do, we both agreed to me stripping my plant naked and then it was agreed that i take pics and post them online for other people to see. so both me and the plant are in full agreement with this abuse, i have permision to post naked pictures of my plant, plus she is a very nice plant and im sure she is very proud that many people want to look at her naked limbs and flowers,
so joking aside this has been done as a test, if it was the only plant i got in flower then i would of left it to grow as is but ive tried defol in the past and it worked but it was not proof it worked well, for all i know i could of got big buds without using defol method on the last 2ltr plant that produce a huge bud, this time round i can see each day what happens and how the plant responds and how it deals with the stress, i expect to see no change in the first week then after that im thinking either the buds will fatten up as the plant is forced to grow, but as its in flower then will this force the plant to produce more buds as it cant replace leaves due to it been this fair in flower,
so only time will tell how this works out, plus i can see and all you can see exactly what happens and we can then see the end results and decide if this is a method worth using in the future
so below is the pics of my very sexy naked lady. all i can do now is see how this plays out and keep checking for signs of hermie or sings of it not recovering,
so their you go everyone, let me know what you think,
im also hoping ive got a plant thats as nice as the ak47 x uk cherry cheese, so far ive not grown a strain that looks or smells as nice as the ak47 x cherry cheese, its buds are dense and really stinky, the buds look almost white due to the high numbers of trichs, im glad ive managed to produce seeds of that strain as id be pretty gutted if i never did and found out i cant get a plant as nice, im really holding on to high hops that the big buddha cheese is the true uk clone only cheese, if it is then that should smash the ak x cheese in strength and looks and smell, if its the true uk cheese then the buds will a nice light green colour and should stink the whole place it,
Lucky you i have more than 18 years old... thats some serious pics.
Dp, getting a second opinion before I have to go to HPS, my new NH bulb has these crumbly white/ grey looking stuff in the small vacuum chamber that have a metal node at each end. Does that mean continuity has been lost and the bulb won't work and I have to use the HPS early?
I bought a set with three 5 gallon bags off fleebay. 200 100 and 20 micron. It had a extra piece of 20 micron screen specifically for putting the concentrates on.
Great set and I think it was only 15-20 bucks or something. However with 5 gallon bags it takes a LOT of effort to make a decent amount of stuff as you can only do about 1 pound of trim at a time max.
Put you hand right on top of the tops of the plant. If your hand is hot, then the lights are too close. If your hand is warm, then its ok but getting close to being too near.
but as long as if you got your hand right above the plant and your hand does not feel too hot, then the plants are fine.
miwa
New Member
@ DP..i was talking about molasses..use the unsulfered kind..there is a difference..Google can explain it better ...it has something to do with the way they make it..the process...
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