Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[Rider509]

Let's run some rough numbers and use an extract of four grams per ounce as a reasonable starting point. So if I process 16ozs that will yield 64g of extract. 64g * 0.12CO2= 7.68gCO2 or .1745molCO2. Solving for P in the provided equation at 121C assuming 50% headspace (250ml) in the reaction vessel yields... holy hell, Batman!
P = 331.7662065867 pound per square inch.
The reaction vessel is rated to 3MPa or 435psi so I'm golden there, but DAMN!

With an increase in headspace to 400ml:
P = 207.35387911669 pound per square inch.

And that doesn't even take into account the additional pressure of the vaporized EtOH with a molar mass of 46.5g/mol.

I guess I'll be reducing the extract down to a very viscous consistency and possibly be running smaller batches. The first run should be interesting.

 

[Rider509]

Accounting for alcohol... let's say there's 50ml of alcohol in a 100ml extract. EtOH is 0.789g/cm^3 so that 50ml weighs 39.45g which represents a molar mass of 0.8484mol. Plug that into the Ideal Gas Law calculator and...
P = 1008.1319830521 pound per square inch! Fuck me! That can't be right. Someone want to check my calcs before I blow myself sky high?

 

[Rider509]

Sumpin ain't right. I refuse to believe those pressures.

 

[Rider509]

The Antoine equation on this page (Saturated Vapor Pressure) for EtOH at 121C returns 64psi. I'm so confused. I feel like those cave dudes trying to comprehend the obelisk in 2001 A Space Odyssey.

 

[Rider509]

View media item 1505869

 

[Kicknitup1]

I have a faded memory of someone posting 20% but I'm not sure. I think Kickin knows this.

I read somewhere it was just over 20mg/ml from a decent source. But,uhhhhhh, it just doesn't feel right. I would dearly love for someone to try to push about 50mg/ml in some ethanol & run it thru a lab.

 

[Kicknitup1]

I'm using 200 proof which simplifies the math. No partial pressures to figure out, right?

LMAO! Yeah, don't throw in anything to gum up the works.

 

[Rider509]

My brain hurts from trying to figure out the whole vapor pressure thing. Screw it. The reaction vessel will be here Thursday. I'll evap off enough alcohol to make a thick honey and run it in the autoclave. It works or it blows up. It'll be cool either way.
I ran a little experiment yesterday. Worked okay. The system needs to be tweaked at bit.
Vacuum evap

 

[Kicknitup1]

Turning liquid into vapor is a mighty thing. When water converts to steam it expands 1600 times. But I don't think your pressures are correct. The jar will not burst but the lid will give.

 

[Kicknitup1]

Regardless, I can't wait to see your version of the Southern "Hey Y'all, watch this!" Rock on Rider. Loved the ethanol setup. Cool toys.

 

[Rider509]

Turning liquid into vapor is a mighty thing. When water converts to steam it expands 1600 times. But I don't think your pressures are correct. The jar will not burst but the lid will give.

I think you missed this. Mad scientist shit happening here!

reactor_vessel.jpg

• Rider509
• Mar 11, 2018

 

[Rider509]

If you're going to make a boom, might as well be a big boom! LOL

 

[Kicknitup1]

SweetSue,

Do you have any suggestions for max pain relief for Rider509?

 

[Rider509]

This reaction vessel is massive. Very well constructed from 18lbs of stainless, and the teflon inner chamber is very thick and machined to such close tolerances that the lid acts like an air spring when you put it on. I'm impressed.

500ml reaction vessel

• Rider509
• Mar 15, 2018

 

[Rider509]

Here's the plan, harebrained as it is. I'll do an extraction, either QWET or a full prolonged extraction, depending on @SweetSue's suggestion for sublingual administration for pain. I'll vac evap down to a thick slurry with just enough EtOH left to keep it from going solid. Then into the reaction vessel and autoclave for pressure decarbing at 121C. The reaction vessel has a temp rise of 5C/min, which is a bit slower than the rise of temp in the autoclave, so 15 minutes after the autoclave hits temp the vessel should hit temp and another 20 to decarb. (If it doesn't blow up first)
Thoughts?

 

[Rider509]

My goal is to minimize both terpene loss and odors while still providing a decarbed product for improved quality of life for my brother.

 

[SweetSue]

My goal is to minimize both terpene loss and odors while still providing a decarbed product for improved quality of life for my brother.

Mighty impressed I am. Good grief, what a beautiful piece of equipment.

If it were me, I’d do a QWET and make biobombs. I’d save sublingual for breakthrough. You can make a tincture from the CCO and that’ll cover that need.

I recently watched a class at Green Flower Media taught be a nurse practitioner who contends that sublingual isn’t as effective as we’re being told it is. The reality is most swallow.

The best euphoria is 11-hydroxy, but the best pain relief, IMO, is delta-9. If you make the carrier oil of the biobombs olive oil you get the cannabinoids into the lymphatic system where they can be most useful against inflammatory pain.

3-4 doses a day with biobombs and you may see better pain management. The trick is getting the sweet spot right and working with a balanced ratio.

A good, strong topical is an excellent, and in my world, invaluable healing tool. At least double-strength for severe chronic pain. Don’t neglect the DMR, that wonderful pad at the top of the thoracic spine. It’s amazing how effective topicals are when applied here.

 

[Rider509]

Wow! Thank you, Sue. You've given me something to research and think about. I love to learn. I don't know what biobombs are but I'm betting that if I search your pages I will shortly!
For nighttime foot pain they give him lidocaine/prilocaine cream that he slathers on and then wears plastic booties. I hope the cannabis topicals work better for him. He says he's in constant pain anymore. He's my youngest brother. I feel bad for him and anyone else suffering from intractable pain.

 

[SweetSue]

Wow! Thank you, Sue. You've given me something to research and think about. I love to learn. I don't know what biobombs are but I'm betting that if I search your pages I will shortly!
For nighttime foot pain they give him lidocaine/prilocaine cream that he slathers on and then wears plastic booties. I hope the cannabis topicals work better for him. He says he's in constant pain anymore. He's my youngest brother. I feel bad for him and anyone else suffering from intractable pain.

Oh, the topicals will do more than those creams. The big difference is that cannabinoids don't simply cover symptoms, they signal healing. You get pain relief as well as a continuious improvement in the systemic condition contributing to the symptoms.

Doctors were poorly trained for healing. They were trained to prescribe.

No need for booties with a cannabis topical. Magnus8 has a study hall devoted to topicals. InTheShed has taken the time to become well-versed in those pages. I'm certain he would be glad to help you maneuver that data overload.

 

[InTheShed]

InTheShed has taken the time to become well-versed in those pages. I'm certain he would be glad to help you maneuver that data overload.

Absolutely! I'm always willing to help .