Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

Exciting Canyon! :slide: Then we'll at least have a basic idea of the potential of the dry ice extraction. You guys amaze me. :hug:
 
Hi Sue! :green_heart:

One of the things my wife and I did while I have been gone from the site was to drive up to Durango Co and take a narrow gauge steam train to Silverton and back. It was a fun day trip.

......While I was in Durango I checked out two recreational dispensaries. Both were second floor walk-ups (ADA???). The first one had one indica and one sativa discounted that were Walmart quality. The rest was 16 to 20 dollars per gram. However they offered 30% off if you had an out of state card. Chocolate bars are restricted to 100mg of THC.

The second place was less impressive to look around in. However there samples were impressive to look at and smelled great. Two of them stood out. One was labeled 30.??% and another at 40%. Both were as fine smelling as I have ever experienced. The one labeled 40% was $28 a gram. The 30% was 20. I could not bring myself to pay that much, especially when I could not see what I would actually be buying. I had plenty of smoke with me but I did relent and buy a gram of the 30% batch. After about half of a small joint I was wishing I had sprung for the 40% batch.

I have an overnight trip tomorrow and will probably check in Tuesday evening.

It is good to find that the interest in the thread is continuing. Thanks everyone!

Best
 
Very, very late to the game here, but just spent a couple of days' free time reading this thread. I had a lot of questions going in, and some of them were answered while others were created. One of them, which I think I lost track of along the way, was whether or not we could do a double extraction and get the best of both worlds. Again, if I missed this, please do accept my apologies. There was a lot of chatter in between the meat here.

The idea is simple enough, really. Do a very low temperature oil extraction at double normal concentration, which doesn't decarb. That is going to pull some THCA out and lower your overall yield, but should preserve a decent amount of terpenes. Strain that oil, add fresh oil to the mash, and bring that up to a decarb-in-oil temperature for a reasonable time. Strain, cool both oils, and combine. Do we get the best of both worlds or just lose a lot?

I can tell you I've done this not to combine but for two different products. I initially extracted a THCA oil (I think, by staying under 160) for a relative. It was a long and slow infusion for about 4 hours. When I saw the mash was still green and lovely. I thought I'd add oil and raise the oil temperature to 240 with my induction cooktop. I left it there for an hour, assuming the resulting oil would be mildly sedative if anything. However, it was incredibly potent, which led me to wonder if I couldn't combine to the two and get a little bit of strain-specific effect mixed with the traditional edible "generic" effect.

Thanks again to all for the work put in here. It's been fun trying to digest everything.
 
nostril said:
Very, very late to the game here, but just spent a couple of days' free time reading this thread. I had a lot of questions going in, and some of them were answered while others were created. One of them, which I think I lost track of along the way, was whether or not we could do a double extraction and get the best of both worlds. Again, if I missed this, please do accept my apologies. There was a lot of chatter in between the meat here.

The idea is simple enough, really. Do a very low temperature oil extraction at double normal concentration, which doesn't decarb. That is going to pull some THCA out and lower your overall yield, but should preserve a decent amount of terpenes. Strain that oil, add fresh oil to the mash, and bring that up to a decarb-in-oil temperature for a reasonable time. Strain, cool both oils, and combine. Do we get the best of both worlds or just lose a lot?

I can tell you I've done this not to combine but for two different products. I initially extracted a THCA oil (I think, by staying under 160) for a relative. It was a long and slow infusion for about 4 hours. When I saw the mash was still green and lovely. I thought I'd add oil and raise the oil temperature to 240 with my induction cooktop. I left it there for an hour, assuming the resulting oil would be mildly sedative if anything. However, it was incredibly potent, which led me to wonder if I couldn't combine to the two and get a little bit of strain-specific effect mixed with the traditional edible "generic" effect.

Thanks again to all for the work put in here. It's been fun trying to digest everything.
Click to expand...
Hi there,
If I'm following you, yes, you can do a combination of under decarbed oil for preserving terpenes & thca and regular decarbed oil for a fuller range.

As for heat, some of my more potent coconut infusions hit 250f for a while. I figured the heat ruined it both times. Not so. We have found that once it's in a carrier cannabinoids are not as sensitive to heat as once thought. But still, I believe everyone agrees to avoid and or limit high heat in extractions.
 
As most know, I have been out of the testing biz for quite some time waiting for my tcheck to be replaced. And, as most know, I set out to put all we have learned into a "how to" video with additional written instructions, test results, cost saving measures...everything you need to know to do it right...at home...without having to be a chemist or a mathmatician. Honestly, with the exception of the huge list of ways to go wrong (quality loss, thc & terpene loss, & yield loss) due to setup/equipment mistakes, everything you need is here. As you found out, there's a lot of other things being discussed. So, by nature of the learn as we go format of this forum, the info is scattered.

I already have hundreds of hours in this and it will take many more to come up with a guide that I would be satisfied with. I am also constantly updating techniques. I think I will move forward with it for those who just want to cut to the chase & make consistent edibles. It will be a while but I will put it out there for say $50. I suspect an inexperienced person could save that in a couple of small batches easy if not in the first try. Maybe one year of email support for an additional amount??? Do you guys think there would be enough demand to bother with it?

Yes, there are hundreds of instructional videos out there for free. But that is what they are worth. If we had stuck with the status quo floating around out there we would be nowhere. There's valuable info in most of them but they all seem to go off the rails at some point. And some, oh wow, are flat out wrong and or dangerous. Most of us do not have the ability to grow so making the most of your stash is really important. What do ya think? Worth doing?
 
Kicknitup1 said:
As most know, I have been out of the testing biz for quite some time waiting for my tcheck to be replaced. And, as most know, I set out to put all we have learned into a "how to" video with additional written instructions, test results, cost saving measures...everything you need to know to do it right...at home...without having to be a chemist or a mathmatician. Honestly, with the exception of the huge list of ways to go wrong (quality loss, thc & terpene loss, & yield loss) due to setup/equipment mistakes, everything you need is here. As you found out, there's a lot of other things being discussed. So, by nature of the learn as we go format of this forum, the info is scattered.

I already have hundreds of hours in this and it will take many more to come up with a guide that I would be satisfied with. I am also constantly updating techniques. I think I will move forward with it for those who just want to cut to the chase & make consistent edibles. It will be a while but I will put it out there for say $50. I suspect an inexperienced person could save that in a couple of small batches easy if not in the first try. Maybe one year of email support for an additional amount??? Do you guys think there would be enough demand to bother with it?

Yes, there are hundreds of instructional videos out there for free. But that is what they are worth. If we had stuck with the status quo floating around out there we would be nowhere. There's valuable info in most of them but they all seem to go off the rails at some point. And some, oh wow, are flat out wrong and or dangerous. Most of us do not have the ability to grow so making the most of your stash is really important. What do ya think? Worth doing?
Click to expand...
Id be up for that. Time is money and you've been here from the start on this. I appreciate the time and effort.
 
Derbybud said:
Id be up for that. Time is money and you've been here from the start on this. I appreciate the time and effort.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I know I would have paid that to get me to where I am now. LOL. I think even experienced people would like to see step by step with all the suggestions and failed attempts with this & that. Then we move to tintures & ethanol extractions. "and the road goes on forever and the party never ends".
 
Also, when I was last at a place to experiment, I found that EVOO will not hold encapsulation when refrigerated in a concentration of 30+mg/g. I never had that problem at lower concentrations, usually 20mg/g. Got it that high with decarbed wax. At lower concentrations, when mixed properly, it will hold with no further need of stirring for weeks.
 
Derbybud said:
I'm sorry I don't know what that is.
Click to expand...
Liposomal encapsulation is a cool thing. It's basically just serious mixing. Whip the infused oil at a high enough RPM and the mixture will stabilize to the point that it will no longer need stirring after being stored. It locks the cannabinoids with the EVOO to make them more bio-available also.

The easiest way to do it with small quantities of oil is with a homemade mixing blade in a Dremel. It takes about 3 minutes. When achieved, a large layer of bubbles will be forced to the surface. These will dissipate in an hour in the fridge. The oil will look more voluminous.
 
Canyon said:
... We tried to stabilize my oven near 240 most of the day and decided that an oven decarb at a stable temp just was not going to happen so we decided not to do one.
...
Click to expand...

Canyon,
I was reading up on this thread to see if I could pick up anything new and caught this post by you from a few years back.

I solved my oven fluctuation issues by placing a few bricks in the oven on the lowest rack. Personally I wrap them in foil, but probably not necessary. These heat up with the oven during preheat and I leave the oven at 235 for about 30 minutes before starting the decarb process.

I hardly see any fluctuations in oven temp and have been using this method successfully for years.

Hope this helps others who might have oven fluctuation issues.
 
Welcome to the forum Joe!

Thanks for the tip. I had been keeping a pizza stone on the lowest rack for years with the hope of evening out the temperature. It turns out that the mass of it was causing more of a temperature swing rather than stabilizing it. I removed it about a year ago and saw a modest improvement. Mostly I need a better oven.

Enjoy the forum, there are lots of fine people here.

I never know
canyon
 
BCDD,

I wish we could have managed more testing with the Ardent Nova. IE, terpene retention and decarbing oil. Not having a reliable tCheck and being 300 miles from the closest lab doomed a lot of what we had intended to do.

I am still hoping someone with better/cheaper lab access and the interest will find the thread and get it going again.

Best
 
Canyon said:
BCDD,

I wish we could have managed more testing with the Ardent Nova. IE, terpene retention and decarbing oil. Not having a reliable tCheck and being 300 miles from the closest lab doomed a lot of what we had intended to do.

I am still hoping someone with better/cheaper lab access and the interest will find the thread and get it going again.

Best
Click to expand...

One day that’ll happen Canyon. :hug: We’ll keep the candles burning and wait patiently. Every year the specter of freedom looks closer. Before you know it there’ll be better access. We may attract members with equipment.

I haven’t seen tCheck back in stock, but I stopped looking a while back. Sure would like to stock my canna kitchen with one.
 

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