I say we give those feet an honorable mention!
Couldn't Resist A Christmas Auto Grow
- Thread starter Carmen Ray
- Start date
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- #502
You laugh, my brother was 6.7 and had outsize shoes! They grew us tall, gangly and with flippers for feetI say we give those feet an honorable mention!
Under ideal circumstances you drop the light an inch or two at a time and check for stress. Not sure how far you moved it but as Otter said you just keep an eye on the leaves.
Too much change at once can cause stress but they can get used to more and more if done slowly.
Looks like everything is moving along here just fine. Carry on friends. 
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- #505
I think my Skywalker Kush may have gone canoeing?
I don't want to move the light because of poor "Mustang Sally". I also had to reset their swicks this morning, which included watering to run off.
Thank you NevLooks like everything is moving along here just fine. Carry on friends.
I don't see canoeing. Maybe a bit of clawing from excess N?
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- #507
I'll give her a shot of calcium, thanks Azi!
According to @Gee64 , calcium helps to free up more nitrogen if it is deficient in the soil, the opposite of what you want.
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- #509
I understood him differently. I need to find the reference and I don't remember who's journal it was. It wasn't in his Gee Spot journal. Do you perhaps remember where we had that conversation? I might have copy pasted that into my off-site notes. I'll have a look.
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- #510
@Azimuth I hope I haven't poisoned my plant. It's too late now because I've already given her the Calmag. Here are the notes from @Gee64
"Its actually possible for both to get locked.
Think the platters of food. Theres a platter with all cations on it, including magnesium. Ready for the plant to eat it. Thats the food. Ready to go.
Theres also soil structure that relies on calcium to restrict magnesium's electrical stickiness, so when cal gets low in the soil magnesium gets stickier and attracts and bonds to things. It likes nitrogen the best.
(Excess magnesium is said to be able to bind 1 for 1 mag to nitro. I don't know if its true but I have read it more than once.)
So if its bonded to nitrogen a nitrogen deficiency appears. Nitrogen is called Locked Out.
Now back to the platter of food.
The plant wants the magnesium but in order for a magnesium to come off, another, or a different cation of the same charge must hop onto the platter. If the platter can't recognize new magnesium because it has nitrogen attached to it, then there may be no recognizable magnesium for the Cation Exchange to supply to the plant so...
In some situations adding calcium to the soil relaxes magnesiums grip unlocking nitrogen, the nitrogen deficiency goes away PLUS magnesium is now recognizable to the Cation Exchange and food flows again, including magnesium.
Or you could be low on nitrogen, or magnesium, or calcium.
Start with calcium.
Usually you add a nitro fert like fish or a tea, and it doesn't work so your thinking wtf? The nitrogen is there, just locked.
If adding calcium works it unlocks that nitrogen plus all atmospheric nitrogen so quite often adding cal actually causes nitrogen toxicity, but short lived. 1 or 2 sets of leaves get clawed. Then it corrects and grows good."
"Its actually possible for both to get locked.
Think the platters of food. Theres a platter with all cations on it, including magnesium. Ready for the plant to eat it. Thats the food. Ready to go.
Theres also soil structure that relies on calcium to restrict magnesium's electrical stickiness, so when cal gets low in the soil magnesium gets stickier and attracts and bonds to things. It likes nitrogen the best.
(Excess magnesium is said to be able to bind 1 for 1 mag to nitro. I don't know if its true but I have read it more than once.)
So if its bonded to nitrogen a nitrogen deficiency appears. Nitrogen is called Locked Out.
Now back to the platter of food.
The plant wants the magnesium but in order for a magnesium to come off, another, or a different cation of the same charge must hop onto the platter. If the platter can't recognize new magnesium because it has nitrogen attached to it, then there may be no recognizable magnesium for the Cation Exchange to supply to the plant so...
In some situations adding calcium to the soil relaxes magnesiums grip unlocking nitrogen, the nitrogen deficiency goes away PLUS magnesium is now recognizable to the Cation Exchange and food flows again, including magnesium.
Or you could be low on nitrogen, or magnesium, or calcium.
Start with calcium.
Usually you add a nitro fert like fish or a tea, and it doesn't work so your thinking wtf? The nitrogen is there, just locked.
If adding calcium works it unlocks that nitrogen plus all atmospheric nitrogen so quite often adding cal actually causes nitrogen toxicity, but short lived. 1 or 2 sets of leaves get clawed. Then it corrects and grows good."
The leaf tip and sides going down is clawing. Generally a n thing. You are ok with it. Canoeing is the opposite, when things curl upwards.
CrochetingHybrids
Well-Known Member
I’m absolutely gushing at your bondage skills, do you offer lessons? All i did was break branches, they look great tied and released
. My knowledge is very limited but I agree with your line of thinking as far as adding cal to help unlock and causing short term N toxicity but it should have more benefit in the end. I hope all is well with you
. My knowledge is very limited but I agree with your line of thinking as far as adding cal to help unlock and causing short term N toxicity but it should have more benefit in the end. I hope all is well with you
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Hey Carmen, your plant with the dark clawed leaves definitely looks like its getting too much nitrogen.
If it was like that before you added calmag its not likely you had any "locked" nitrogen in your soil, your plant looks like too much is already available.
Adding in calcium isn't guaranteed to fix nitrogen, only if cal is low and mag locks the nitrogen. Calcium actually fixes magnesium, which then releases the nitrogen it had locked up.
I don't think the calmag will hurt, the nitro was already unlocked. Calcium doesn't stick to soil very well so if you want you can flush it, even in organics, but thats harsh on the soil and can lead to other deficiencies.
I would just ride it out, if it really goes downhill flush it.
Always be careful with calcium as it increases the soil particle charge, which either fixes things quickly, or over-fixes things quickly.
How many ppm of calmag did you add? If it was under 75 and it does release more nitro then you have somehow put way too much nitro in your soil AND you are deficient on calcium so that 75ppm slow and steady number is what you should stay under and slowly release that extra nitro.
Don't try to fix it, if it even needs fixing, all in one go.
Its too much base ec and too much nitro will get released.
Too bad its an auto and you haven't got a controllable photoperiod to give it extra time to recover.
The others look really good. Was the sick plant planted in different soil or fed something hot like blood or alfalfa meal?
If it was like that before you added calmag its not likely you had any "locked" nitrogen in your soil, your plant looks like too much is already available.
Adding in calcium isn't guaranteed to fix nitrogen, only if cal is low and mag locks the nitrogen. Calcium actually fixes magnesium, which then releases the nitrogen it had locked up.
I don't think the calmag will hurt, the nitro was already unlocked. Calcium doesn't stick to soil very well so if you want you can flush it, even in organics, but thats harsh on the soil and can lead to other deficiencies.
I would just ride it out, if it really goes downhill flush it.
Always be careful with calcium as it increases the soil particle charge, which either fixes things quickly, or over-fixes things quickly.
How many ppm of calmag did you add? If it was under 75 and it does release more nitro then you have somehow put way too much nitro in your soil AND you are deficient on calcium so that 75ppm slow and steady number is what you should stay under and slowly release that extra nitro.
Don't try to fix it, if it even needs fixing, all in one go.
Its too much base ec and too much nitro will get released.
Too bad its an auto and you haven't got a controllable photoperiod to give it extra time to recover.
The others look really good. Was the sick plant planted in different soil or fed something hot like blood or alfalfa meal?
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- #515
Hey Gee,
Thank you very much.
Thank you for taking the time to explain these things.
Thank you very much.
That I find so confusing and it feels so unlikely Gee. Maybe you can get your head around this one for me if I may? I'm in a stable los with the swick, and I'm not sure how that could have happened. What could have introduced it literally overnight? The only change was that I had to reset the swick so she got watered from the top until runoff. I added nothing to the water and the water was chlorine free. I'll have to revisit my feeding chart.
I know, that's what @Azimuth said too. I may have mixed things up in my head but my instinct was to try the calmag in low dose and wait and see. I freed her final restraints this morning and she has lifted those arms into the air. I will be awake for some time still so I will check now and again. What should I do now that she is wet through, if the leaves get worse? These are sparkly little nuggets and I don't want to lose them.
Ah! Okay great. I'm going to watch her. She really has got wet soil now (still spongy though) and I don't want to stress this little one. She's been under too much stress already. I'll get some pics in a jiffy and show you what I mean.
Yay, we are thinking the same way!
Noted. I will re-read your notes from the other day. I did do that earlier and realized that I should have asked more questions before bolting ahead.
I honestly don't know science stuff. I really don't. I don't even know what ppm means. I will get a pic of the specs for you. I just can't see how that could be, she is self-feeding for the most part and is in the same soil as my Red Russian. I'd be grateful if you'd take a squizz and let me know your thoughts.
Okay.
Right. I hope whatever it is will be cured instead of harmed, although having looked at the piccies close up, I am seeing the curling their too. Perhaps I should pull up a feeding chart if it gets too bad. If it's looking worse by morning, may I draw your attention again to look at a feeding chart?
Yeah I know. Although I need to get on top of autos because I only have the winter for photos, sandwiched between other commitments. Autos are also just so much easier atm as our electricity keeps going off. So I want to get to a point where unless it's genetics are weak they will grow big like Boo, Nev, and the others.
Same soil, same errything. The only difference is that I did her great harm by super cropping the main stem because she looked as if she was going to hit the light if I didn't do that. In the process of trying to spread her wings I snapped an arm. I also put her in bondage to get her arms lateral. That's why I am so excited to see that whilst her leaves have curled, her buds are reaching for the light. I'll go get some pics.
Thank you for taking the time to explain these things.
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- #516
Thank you. Yes for comparison here is my Red Russian next to the little Skywalker Kush. Her color is yellow like that because of the light. I had to keep changing settings and I couldn't get the white balance on this one. Also watered to runoff and swick reset, hence slight droop in leaves but no curling that I can see.
I don't see canoeing!
In terms of calmag and nitrogen, isn't this soil the one from the grower who uses it for his healthy plants? Did you see signs of a calmag deficiency that made you add it?
Carmen for future use you may want to get some CalMag that contains no nitrogen if it's available to you.
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- #519
I didn't know what canoeing was. I had to google it.
Made a mistake, misreading Gee64's post about how the chemicals bond with one another. It was a very good explanation but then I got stoned, and went to sleep. I mis-remembered what I had read and I thought that if I added the Calmag it would help with the Nitrogen toxicity. Now I have gone and added more Nitrogen from the Calmag bottle, and there is nitrogen in the Seagrow which I fed them about ten days days ago. I thought this leaf curling thing had literally happened overnight but I see it started on or about 28th, a week ago. I just checked my feeding schedule... I also gave LABs only because I had some already made and I thought why not. I think the Seagrow is the culprit. What do you think?
Yes, did you see the awesome pic of his instagram... I think I posted it in one of Otter's journals. If not, I will post them in my off-topic.
GDB, I got sold a few wrong things by the same guy it seems. Thank you, when I took the photo I noticed the nitrogen but when I bought it I just went on the sales pitch. Well I won't go shopping there again. That's really disappointing because my trusted dude has shut his shop down. I'm assuming he has changed his focus. His brand is so well established here now.
If it's not slow-release cal mag and you can carry the pot to the bathroom (if it's working), you can flush the soil clean of added nutrients and start fresh.