Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

The gut does change the bioavilability some and others that are much more informed than myself will chime in shortly I'm sure... I know that the 1 gram a day dose for myself... and I am an over 40 year stoner.... would kick my butt and will take a bit of time to dose up to... If you start your dad out at a gram dose you are going to mess his world up IMO... If he is not unhappy about the buzz adding eatables to the dosage would be of some benefit and is how I medicate along with tacking 3 times a day but I don't need near the 1 gram a day dose.... Cajun has been working in an area without good internet connect so he will check in periodically.. or John.. Canna... Super... Rad... and they can all give you a much better answer....

 

[Ldesp]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Thanks for the response .. I will not start him on 1 gram per day .. we will gradually build up to that over a 3-5 week period as Rick Simpson suggest in his dosage guidelines. He says allot of people are fine with that regime and dont experience much of a high. Regardless my dad said he would not mind a high I was just curious if tacking or swallowing made a huge difference in the healing properties.

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

The gut does change the bioavilability some and others that are much more informed than myself will chime in shortly I'm sure... I know that the 1 gram a day dose for myself... and I am an over 40 year stoner.... would kick my butt and will take a bit of time to dose up to... If you start your dad out at a gram dose you are going to mess his world up IMO... If he is not unhappy about the buzz adding eatables to the dosage would be of some benefit and is how I medicate along with tacking 3 times a day but I don't need near the 1 gram a day dose.... Cajun has been working in an area without good internet connect so he will check in periodically.. or John.. Canna... Super... Rad... and they can all give you a much better answer....

Most of the things that I have watched, listened to and read recently, seem to point to start low and work your way up to the dose that you need as an individual. Each of us has different deficiencies in our ECS (For me it is MS for my Wife it is lyme for others it is cancer) so you need to build up to the point that you are feeling better. Feeling high, does not necessarily correlate to the meds working. Sometimes less is more. Start small and work your way up.

There is also a lot to be said about bio-availability. Cajun is the real expert here, but with different techniques, you can increase the amount of usable cannabinoids. This can be accomplished by adding lecithin to your oils and butters for your edibles to the canna-budwig protocol. You can find more info on that in Cajun's alternative treatment tread.

 

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Are there any additional benefits to using the tacking method to take oils besides not getting high? I was reading on Rick Simpsons website and he recommends just swallowing it and offers dosage guidelines to work up to 1gram per day and a few tricks to hide the taste. Dosage Information « Phoenix Tears | Rick Simpson ... My father wont mind getting high so if the only difference is that, then swallowing it would be much easier. So as long as he is ingesting 1 gram per day or more is it all the same if he tacks or swallows?

Good question, I have wondered about that too.

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I do know the availability is better through tacking and please make sure before you heavily dose your dad that he understands the "euphoria" is going to be intense... I have been smoking MJ for 44 years and I promise you I don't consider it euphoria... when I first started tacking even I thought I would try a bigger dose and an extra dose... I have MS and was having a bad day.... I puked my toes up and the "euphoria" sucked.... I just want you to be very careful not to turn your dad off to this by him getting to strong of an immediate and intense buzz... That is why I tack and I like it so much better... I don't get high from the oil... unless I swallow it of course.... and it works without the extreme buzz... well unless you do what I did and not know your limits... Anyhow... someone with better knowledge will pass through here shortly and I pray you find the relief you are looking for with you dad....

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I usually tack about 3 times per day. In the morning before work, after work and before bed. Since I had surgery on Wed, I have not been very careful in tacking cleanly. To be honest, a sloppy tack helped the pain, but I would not want to go to work like that. The first day after surgery the pain was so bad that I didn't even pretend to tack. I used night time meds that whole day to try to help keep me in less pain and somewhat sedated. When I tack I don't feel the euphoria, not that I don't like that, it is just not appropriate at all times.

 

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I usually tack about 3 times per day. In the morning before work, after work and before bed. Since I had surgery on Wed, I have not been very careful in tacking cleanly. To be honest, a sloppy tack helped the pain, but I would not want to go to work like that. The first day after surgery the pain was so bad that I didn't even pretend to tack. I used night time meds that whole day to try to help keep me in less pain and somewhat sedated. When I tack I don't feel the euphoria, not that I don't like that, it is just not appropriate at all times.

The ability to choose which experience you want for the next 6-8 hours is pretty neat.

I am terrible at tacking. I never could get it to stick so I ended up making some topical creams with the oil.

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

My wife tacks with her finger with no problem. I have a hard time getting it off my finger. I take a q-tip and cut the end off so I just have the stick. I put the tack out on my finger and then "roll" it onto the q-tip stick. With a dry gum, the tack rolls right off the stick onto my gum and stays there. Works great for me!!!

 

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

My wife tacks with her finger with no problem. I have a hard time getting it off my finger. I take a q-tip and cut the end off so I just have the stick. I put the tack out on my finger and then "roll" it onto the q-tip stick. With a dry gum, the tack rolls right off the stick onto my gum and stays there. Works great for me!!!

That sounds like a great idea S. G., I'll give it a try next batch (this one's a little thin.)
(+reps)

I wish I'd have asked for tips on the actual process before.
Any others tips for "the tack" would be welcome for sure.

 

[Ldesp]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I just want to make it clear that I will start my father on a very low dose .. a drop the size of a grain of rice separated in 3 doses per day and try that out for a few days and see how he feels. So after 5 or 6 weeks of building up tolerance slowly by increasing the dosage gradually he would eventually get to 1 gram a day. Do you still think then he would be too high to function? He does not mind getting a little high but I am sure he wouldnt want to be too stoned to stand up.

Also just to make sure my other question does not get buried in the thread ..
Aside from allot of comments of not getting high, are there any differences between the healing effectiveness of tacking vs swallowing.

Also just to add my father is retired (70 years old) so he does not have to go out to work or anything, mostly just hangs around the house and spends time with family. That is why he does not mind being a little high, just not too high to function.

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I just want to make it clear that I will start my father on a very low dose .. a drop the size of a grain of rice separated in 3 doses per day day and try that out for a few days and see how he feels. So after 5 or 6 weeks of building up tolerance slowly by increasing the dosage gradually he would eventually get to 1 gram a day. Do you still think then he would be too high to function? He does not mind getting a little high but I am sure he wouldnt want to be too stoned to stand up.

Also just to make sure my other question does not get buried in the thread ..
Aside from allot of comments of not getting high, are any differences between the healing effectiveness of tacking vs swallowing.

Also just to add my father is retired (70 years old) so he does not have to go out to work or anything, mostly just hangs around the house and spends time with family. That is why he does not mind being a little high, just not too high to function.

If you tack first, you can medicate with other techniques to build up you total cannabinoid intake. By tacking first you activate you CB1 receptors with Delta 9 THC before it reaches the liver and gets converted to Delta 11 THC which is much more psycho active. If you swallow the saliva during the tack (aka a sloppy tack) you will feel the effect.

 

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Also just to add my father is retired (70 years old) so he does not have to go out to work or anything, mostly just hangs around the house and spends time with family. That is why he does not mind being a little high, just not too high to function.

Kinda like pourage that is "just right."

I like it like a that too.

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Super is exactly right ... When you tack you are by-passing the blood / brain barrier and because of this... You avoid the euphoria at the extreme... Like said above... Of course if you swallow your gonna get buzzed... We all do... No big deal especially since he no longer has to maintain at work or elsewhere.... You sound like you have a workable plan and also as mentioned before eatables are also a great way to get the oil in your dad using an emulsifier to help with availability....

 

[MagicJim]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Just such a great discussion and very appropriate for me. I made my first batch of oil last week and I didn't like the consistency much and found out I could mix CCO with grape seed oil or something else. I did that today and dropped some under my tongue and I'm really zooming after about 20 minutes.

Previously I was dabbing this in my oil rig and now I can pretty much get the same effect without the coughing.

I have no idea what concentration this oil might be except that it was reduced by about 1/2 strength with the grape seed oil. It is still significantly effective sub-lingual.

Maybe next week I can learn how to properly tack without euphoria. Maybe, but is that likely for an old stoner?

 

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Not if the old stoner enjoys the euphoria

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

But for those times you have to be out and about and don't want to be quite that "euphoric"... Yes it is possible.......

 

[94xjjohn]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I don't understand what you think age has to do with it, MagicJim. I'm 69 and have been tacking daily for the past 9 months.....a little sloppy in order to get high sometimes, but mostly without any high! Forty eight years getting stoned, but I still took 6 weeks to build up the dose and tolerance to the oil. NOBODY has fun ODin' on this oil....it's WAY too strong.

 

[circuit]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I really like the capsules to control dosage. I make low dose, 15-25mg caps and, recently, 500mg doses, in order to be able to keep the euphoria under control. My experience has been that there is a plateau and taking more oil doesn't get me any higher, just longer duration. It takes quite a while to learn your tolerance, especially if you switch up strains all the time. The all CBD plants are great to have in the garden so you can make oil for daytime that does not get you high. I am changing from a 200mg CBD cap to a 325mg version because it has such a pleasant effect, mostly just calming and much reduced body pain. But to get the medical benefits I'll take around half gram in late afternoon and on weekends, another couple hundred mg. It mostly comes down to what I can tolerate as far as being able to drive, stay awake, function in a social setting. I'm an old guy who smoked in the 70s and had to stop for career reasons until the whole brain cancer thing, when I went pretty much whole hog into growing and edible oil making. It is clearly helping my situation, and maybe inhibiting tumor growth (hard to prove). If the dad who is about to start with the oil wants to chat about it drop me a PM or an email, might help with his decision. I enjoy the growing and making of the oil, as a hobby it has been a great way to spend time. The aromas involved were my biggest surprise.

 

[Papageno]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

@ beaverislander

The following link was posted in my journal by someone that explains a lot about making VG concentrate by a group of scientists studying this this for a living (making concentrates). They have a ton of postings on ways t make concentrates and a few on VG.

Glycerin Extraction | Skunk Pharm Research

One thing I find interesting is they say to keep agitating it regularly. My wife jokingly told me to bring my cannabis baby with me last night when going upstairs because I have kept it on my person constantly turning it. I think once a day turning it may be fine but more is probably better. Like I said I am keeping it near by and constantly rotating it in all directions.

Anyway hours of good reading there for anyone wanting to know more about extraction methods being proven out in a lab by scientists. It seems they skip all the ways that don't work and just show what they did that does work.

 

[Papageno]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Here are 2 interesting sections ...

Extracting using the cold process:
The cold process is the easiest and tastiest way to make glycerin tincture. We extract using the cold process, simply by soaking the plant material in glycerin at ambient temperatures and agitating it for sixty days or more. Sixty days is about the least amount of time for a cold extraction, and typically they are run 90 to over 120 days. I have one experiment with more than 365 days of soak time.

After the extended soak and agitation, the glycerin is poured off and pressed out of the plant material to yield quality and tasty tinctures. It can also be used with fresh material for another cycle, so as to build up more potency.

There are a number of ways to press out the glycerin from the plant material, and it applies to both cold and hot extraction, so I will cover that in a separate discussion at the end of extraction methods.
The way that we make cold process glycerin tincture, is to load a canning jar 2/3'ds full of plant material, lightly compacted and then cover with glycerin while stirring with a wooden spoon, until every surface is well coated and mixture is homogenous, and then add another inch of glycerin on top.
We place the jars in a cool dark place or cover to exclude light. We sometimes wrap jars with aluminum foil to exclude light.

Every day for the soak period days, we periodically agitate the jars, using one of the above methods and at the end I filter out the plant material for a a light golden to dark amber glycerin tincture, that is tasty and of high quality.

Because the aromatic terpenoids are preserved, it will have many flavors present, interacting and darting off in all directions simultaneously.

You can more easily filter the mixture if you warm it up to 150F or so before filtering.

Potency and gleaning:
As previously noted, to reach maximum saturation, requires processing more than one batch of fresh material through the glycerin, because as the saturation level increases, the glycerin becomes less aggressive as a solvent and the remaining partially dissolved cannabis is also no longer at full strength and as reactive.

In point of fact, the fresh pressed material from the above first cycle will still contain significant cannabinoids, which takes two to three cycles to get it all.

What we do is put the fresh pressed plant material back in the jar and refill with fresh glycerin and add fresh material to the freshly pressed glycerin for another cycle, if I desire more strength.

The fresh glycerin will do the best job of scavenging the remaining cannabinoids, and then can be used again with fresh material to further build up its potency. It is by this cascading technique, that we can leave little behind and yet still maintain quality and potency.

I should note that the most potent glycerin tincture is not necessarily the most tasty, and one cycle produces effective meds, so most of the time we do not bother to bump up the potency with cold tincture.