Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

@ beaverislander

The following link was posted in my journal by someone that explains a lot about making VG concentrate by a group of scientists studying this this for a living (making concentrates). They have a ton of postings on ways t make concentrates and a few on VG.

Glycerin Extraction | Skunk Pharm Research

One thing I find interesting is they say to keep agitating it regularly. My wife jokingly told me to bring my cannabis baby with me last night when going upstairs because I have kept it on my person constantly turning it. I think once a day turning it may be fine but more is probably better. Like I said I am keeping it near by and constantly rotating it in all directions.

Anyway hours of good reading there for anyone wanting to know more about extraction methods being proven out in a lab by scientists. It seems they skip all the ways that don't work and just show what they did that does work.

Ya know, this is going to be a lot of fun V.I.
I have been studying Skunks website which is right up our alley. I swear I am getting a slight buzz from cleaning off the spoon after stirring it and it's only been soaking less that a week. Have you sampled yours yet?

 

[Papageno]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I probably wont have to but I may have to take a drug test in the next 2 weeks. I have been off the meds since August. I am so in need of a taste but not there yet. I am totally a pot head but it does help me with a number of minor medical issues that I can live with. But I do way better just having a little weed once in a while. I really am having huge anxiety right now waiting this last month and a half getting the run around. I am totally in...this recent job they posted internally for the min time and I did not have to interview. I even got to have HR fill out the application because it was internal only and I am external but it was opened for me and no one else was told about it. I have already been selected and they are running the background check. Then I need to negotiate my compensation and then I will start my "new" job where I have been contracting over a year now. So I just need to wait it out. But in a few weeks. I will be sampling.


Since the stuff is so cheap I like what they said about how just one round is good enough for medication. You just up the dose a bit. And since you can reuse the cannabis you just start stacking up jars of this stuff and before you know it you have a huge supply of candy sauce.

Both my wife and I are super excited. My wife can't handle the smell of fresh cannabis. I can't cook it down around her or harvest it in the house. I can't even bring plant in the house to take pictures of that are in bloom. It gives her a headache...yet she is out there in the garage smoking every few hours LOL.

So this method...if I can just decarb some after she goes to bed then jar it and leave it...man just seems to fit our life style perfectly.

I been smoking way too long...I really want to be able to use and not tear up my lungs anymore.

Not to mention my dad has a serious insomnia problem (he passed onto me). I can't wait to give him a tincture and see if that helps. I know I haven't had good sleep in 6 months and I know why. My dad is an athlete and would never smoke but a little candy sauce might be agreeable.

 

[Curly Beaver]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I probably wont have to but I may have to take a drug test in the next 2 weeks. I have been off the meds since August. I am so in need of a taste but not there yet. I am totally a pot head but it does help me with a number of minor medical issues that I can live with. But I do way better just having a little weed once in a while. I really am having huge anxiety right now waiting this last month and a half getting the run around. I am totally in...this recent job they posted internally for the min time and I did not have to interview. I even got to have HR fill out the application because it was internal only and I am external but it was opened for me and no one else was told about it. I have already been selected and they are running the background check. Then I need to negotiate my compensation and then I will start my "new" job where I have been contracting over a year now. So I just need to wait it out. But in a few weeks. I will be sampling.


Since the stuff is so cheap I like what they said about how just one round is good enough for medication. You just up the dose a bit. And since you can reuse the cannabis you just start stacking up jars of this stuff and before you know it you have a huge supply of candy sauce.

Both my wife and I are super excited. My wife can't handle the smell of fresh cannabis. I can't cook it down around her or harvest it in the house. I can't even bring plant in the house to take pictures of that are in bloom. It gives her a headache...yet she is out there in the garage smoking every few hours LOL.

So this method...if I can just decarb some after she goes to bed then jar it and leave it...man just seems to fit our life style perfectly.

I been smoking way too long...I really want to be able to use and not tear up my lungs anymore.

Not to mention my dad has a serious insomnia problem (he passed onto me). I can't wait to give him a tincture and see if that helps. I know I haven't had good sleep in 6 months and I know why. My dad is an athlete and would never smoke but a little candy sauce might be agreeable.

I have the same smell issues with my wife. In fact, I just ordered some oven cooking bags to put the weed in to decarboxolate. I saw a video of someone using them to eliminate the smell and keep the terpenes in while decarbing. (I also ordered a gallon of glycerin Now I need to see if I can figure out how to make one of those devices that rotate mason jars laying on their sides like the ones on Skunks web page you linked to above. That would be nice to have one that would keep about 6 rotating 24/7.

 

[Radogast]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Are there any additional benefits to using the tacking method to take oils besides not getting high? I was reading on Rick Simpsons website and he recommends just swallowing it and offers dosage guidelines to work up to 1gram per day and a few tricks to hide the taste. Dosage Information « Phoenix Tears | Rick Simpson ... My father wont mind getting high so if the only difference is that, then swallowing it would be much easier. So as long as he is ingesting 1 gram per day or more is it all the same if he tacks or swallows?

My 'gut feeling' is that tacking delivers more medicine at the same dose than ingesting through the stomach.
I looked for support and the best I could find was a casual mention from MrsMotoco about a patient who spent 16 months following Rick Simpson technique and switched to tacking with success.

A suppository, being also absorbed via a mucus membrane, might be as effective for your dad as tacking.

Notice I said gut feeling, I don't KNOW this.


I'm all for a getting high, although I rarely do it myself, but I think it would be better to get high with vaping, as the feeling can be sensed and managed. If Dad wants a good ride, I like edibles. A sweet happy high

The gut does change the bioavilability some and others that are much more informed than myself will chime in shortly I'm sure... I know that the 1 gram a day dose for myself... and I am an over 40 year stoner.... would kick my butt and will take a bit of time to dose up to... If you start your dad out at a gram dose you are going to mess his world up IMO... If he is not unhappy about the buzz adding eatables to the dosage would be of some benefit and is how I medicate along with tacking 3 times a day but I don't need near the 1 gram a day dose.... Cajun has been working in an area without good internet connect so he will check in periodically.. or John.. Canna... Super... Rad... and they can all give you a much better answer....

Being deficient in knowledge, I wouldn't have even answered except Dennise called me out on it
I agree that the bioavalability isn't likely as strong when swallowed.

John, Cajuncelt, Mrs Motoco, Super, Canna know what they are talking about ..... me, I just chimed in as an interpreter... I don't know anything first hand - just what I have read! You know more than I do, Ms Dennise

 

[Radogast]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I have the same smell issues with my wife. In fact, I just ordered some oven cooking bags to put the weed in to decarboxolate. I saw a video of someone using them to eliminate the smell and keep the terpenes in while decarbing. I also ordered a gallon of glycerin. Now I need to see if I can figure out how to make one of those devices that rotate mason jars laying on their sides like the ones on Skunks web page you linked to above. That would be nice to have one that would keep about 6 rotating 24/7.

What about a rock tumbler?

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I have the same smell issues with my wife. In fact, I just ordered some oven cooking bags to put the weed in to decarboxolate. I saw a video of someone using them to eliminate the smell and keep the terpenes in while decarbing. I also ordered a gallon of glycerin. Now I need to see if I can figure out how to make one of those devices that rotate mason jars laying on their sides like the ones on Skunks web page you linked to above. That would be nice to have one that would keep about 6 rotating 24/7.

The MB2 does a great job making VG.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

A suppository, being also absorbed via a mucus membrane, might be as effective for your dad as tacking.

Good mention Radogast,
just want to add for Lsped that suppositories done properly do not produce a high. I believe there are instructions for this on the tacking thread or on Cajuncelt's Base Cancer Regimen thread. The link to that can be found on the first post of this thread.

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Good mention Radogast,
just want to add for Lsped that suppositories done properly do not produce a high. I believe there are instructions for this on the tacking thread or on Cajuncelt's Base Cancer Regimen thread. The link to that can be found on the first post of this thread.

A suppository done improperly will produce a high if absorbed by the hepatic vein. Cajun has it on his thread the proper insertion distance.

 

[Papageno]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I have the right motor for the tumbler I just need to rig up the rollers and stand.

Good call on the baking bags. I will try that.

I don't have a MB machine yet. I will get one some day but I am trying other methods first.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

A suppository done improperly will produce a high if absorbed by the hepatic vein. Cajun has it on his thread the proper insertion distance.

Yep, like I said...done properly it doesn't. I used this method in conjuction with the tacking a couple years ago...I think it was up to the second knuckle if I remember correctly, no further than that.

I'll check to be sure and edit if needed.



Edit, it was no more than 2" inches.

Here's the post where Cajun discusses the suppository method:

A Base Treatment Regimen for Cancer

 

[Ldesp]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I have been reading some more on tacking and have read through the steps and process here on the forums, however I have a few questions that I could not find clear answers to and I thought that maybe they can easily be answered by those of you here that are currently tackers.

When you put the oil on your gums does it dissolve when you rub it in so that there is nothing left or does the oil stay on your gums for some time then you are to spit the oil out? If you spit it out how long do you leave it on your gums for?

Should the user spit out any saliva that is generated as a result of the tacking or swallow it?

Also should the mouth be rinsed out after tacking to ensure nothing is swallowed?

Thanks,

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

High LD... When you first tack you should brush your teeth... Take your piece of paper towel and stick it between your gum and bottom of your lip... Dry it then and apply your tack... Do not swallow for 20-30 minutes. If you need to just spit in a bottle... It does soak in but it takes a little while.... You do not need to rinse it out it will absorb into the gum....

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

The "more" you swallow the more the euphoria.

 

[circuit]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Good luck to the people who are treating themselves with cannabis oil.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Good luck to the people who are treating themselves with cannabis oil.

Circuit,
I always find your posts to be very informative and good reading.
You contribute much to the thread and it is truly appreciated!

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Not everyone can be queen......

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Not everyone can be queen......

If there are any Queens around here, I appeal to their generosity and ability to change laws. We paupers will write them out, all they need do is sign and seal! Then grant us a piece of land in the "Queendom" big enough and fertile enough to grow all we want legally!

Then go back to your castle and we all live in peace.



( one can dream, eh?)

 

[circuit]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Circuit,

I always find your posts to be very informative and good reading.
You contribute much to the thread and it is truly appreciated!

Thank you, it was great to find a group of people with this common interest. The methods of making the oil, the dosage amounts, application to specific conditions and reporting of the results are all areas where cannabis oil needs more research. The people who are making a living by selling cannabis to sick people should have better guidelines than currently exist. I am very concerned about some of the "caregivers" that I have met in Colorado. I know one who I would not allow to dogsit, much less make medicine.

We really don't know much about how to apply cannabis oil. The informal guidelines that most people use, like the gram a day dose popularized by Rick Simpson, are obviously not based on scientific studies, but have evolved over the last few years to be our defacto standards. I love that most of what has been discovered was found by direct observation, but the treatment/results record is so incomplete that we are still mostly in the dark. When I see someone posting a directive to someone who wants to treat disease, it makes me cringe. Even an experienced doctor cannot diagnose and treat a patient without an examination. Patients will tell you all about their problem(s), like after finding a lump, but not mention that they are 300 pounds overweight, diabetic and treating for emphysema. That person probably could benefit from cannabis oil, but what if the person has very low blood pressure, something that lowers it further could actually kill the patient. There are lots of good reasons that there are laws about doing amateur doctoring, that have nothing to do with any grand conspiracy.

Good luck to the people who are trying cannabis oil against their conditions. If any of the tumor inhibition theories are correct, we should see some positive results. I am trying it against regrowth of a glial tumor, and the tumor has not come back, so I could claim to have been cured, but that would be disingenuous. The surgery or radiation might be what got me here, or the cannabis oil, or the combination of all 3. Healthy skepticism is called for in this situation, but hope can live here too. I look forward to finding out the best way to apply cannabis oil against disease, in the meantime I'll keep making it the way that makes sense to me and taking the dosage that I believe might work.

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Please at least keep stopping by to let us know you're doing well....

 

[SweetSue]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I just want to make it clear that I will start my father on a very low dose .. a drop the size of a grain of rice separated in 3 doses per day and try that out for a few days and see how he feels. So after 5 or 6 weeks of building up tolerance slowly by increasing the dosage gradually he would eventually get to 1 gram a day. Do you still think then he would be too high to function? He does not mind getting a little high but I am sure he wouldnt want to be too stoned to stand up.

Also just to make sure my other question does not get buried in the thread ..
Aside from allot of comments of not getting high, are there any differences between the healing effectiveness of tacking vs swallowing.

Also just to add my father is retired (70 years old) so he does not have to go out to work or anything, mostly just hangs around the house and spends time with family. That is why he does not mind being a little high, just not too high to function.

This is from a white paper at Green House Labs. It has a delightful illustration of the bioavailability of different delivery methods by way of entry into the body.

So what happens in your body when you take cannabis or cannabinoids?

This primarily depends on which cannabinoids were taken and how they were taken/the route of administration.

Route of administration

Cannabis or cannabinoids are often smoked but can also be ingested (oil, cake, tea etc.), injected or absorbed through the skin (patch) or mucous membranes (tongue, cheek, rectum). The chosen route of administration has a major impact on the actual effect.

For instance, smoking inevitably heats up cannabinoids causing decarboxylation and a shift from acidic to neutral compounds, which tend to be more biologically active. In addition, the incineration process will render part of the cannabinoids biologically inactive.

However, inhaled cannabinoids enter the bloodstream through the lungs and therefore reach the rest of the body before it passes the liver. This first-pass liver effect can seriously reduce the amount of available cannabinoids. Similarly, ingesting cannabinoids can reduce the amount of available cannabinoids through degradation in the gut/digestive tract.

Heat, chemical degradation or biological degradation/metabolism can dramatically change the amount of cannabinoids that is biologically active: bioavailability. Injected substances are considered 100% bioavailable. Any reduction is ascribed to the route of administration.

Smoked, or inhaled cannabinoids have reported bioavailabilities ranging from 2-56%(Huestis, 2007) with an average of about 30% (McGilveray, 2005). This variability is mainly due to differences in smoking dynamics (how deeply does one inhale, how long does one hold it in). Compared to oral application, the effects of smoking cannabinoids are relatively fast in on- and offset.

Cannabinoids that are absorbed through the mucous membranes in the mouth (buccomucosal application) have bioavailabilities of around 13% (Karschner et al., 2011). Application via the mucous membranes of tongue and cheek or rectal application bypasses degradation in the gut and improves bioavailability.

Distribution

Cannabinoids (and their metabolites/breakdown products) are very lipophilic and are preferentially distributed to fatty tissues such as brain, spleen and body fat rather than aquaeous/water-rich tissues such as blood.

Distribution of THC (other cannabinoids will have similar but not identical distributions based on their respective biochemical properties):

About 1% of biologically available THC reaches the brain.

THC (and metabolites) accumulates in testicular/epididymal fat where it may affect sperm production.

THC crosses the placenta far more efficiently than its metabolites. From 15% (late pregnancy) to 30% (early pregnancy) of maternal plasma THC can be detected in fetal plasma.

THC also accumulates in breast milk (levels 8.4 times higher than plasma). About 10% of maternally consumed THC can be passed on to breast milk.

THC levels peak around 10 minutes after onset of smoking and rapidly go down to ~ 60% of peak after 15 minutes, 20% of peak after 30 minutes and 3% of peak after 2 hours.

THC is degraded to 11-OH-THC, which is also psychoactive, and subsequently to THC-COOH which is not psychoactive. THC-COOH is relatively stabile and can remain detectable for weeks (and is therefore used for drug screening). Most cannabinoid metabolites are excreted with urine (~1/3) or feces (~2/3).

The image below shows the distribution of CB1 receptor ligand 18F-FMPEP after injection into the blood circulation (this distribution can be expected to be similar but not identical to that of THC).

Development

CB1 can be detected in human tissues throughout development (Mato et al., 2003). Comparison of CB1 distribution in the human brain at difference developmental stages shows:
-CB1 expression is relatively low in fetuses, intermediate in children and high in adults.
-CB1 expression in adults is particularly high in hippocampus and basal ganglia.
-CB1 expression in fetuses is particularly high in capsula interna, pyramidal tract and brachium conjunctivum (while not detectable in children and adults) suggesting a transient surge of CB1 in developing neuronal fiber tracts and thus a role in brain development.

Example by numbers

Now let's breakdown what happens when you smoke a cannabis cigarette (adapted from (McGilveray, 2005)).

A cigarette containing 35 mg THC produces peak THC levels of 162 ng/ml plasma 10 minutes after onset of smoking.

An average human has approximately 5l of blood meaning that 162 x 5000 = 810 μg of THC is bioavailable at peak levels, corresponding to bioavailability of 0.81/35 = 2.4% at peak levels.

Peak THC levels are 162 ng/ml. The molecular weight of THC is 314g/mol. 314 ng of THC in 1 ml of plasma corresponds to a 1 μM THC concentration. Therefore, our measured concentration of 162 ng/ml corresponds to 520 nM THC at peak. After 30 minutes, ~20% or ~100 nM is still bioavailable. After 2 hours, ~3% or 15 nM of THC is still bioavailable.

With relative affinities for THC of 10 nM and 24 nM for CB1 and CB2 receptors it can be assumed that most biological activity of THC will have disappeared within 2 hours after smoking a cannabis cigarette (An affinity of 10 nM means that at this concentration 50% of receptors are bound/activated by THC).

Literature
Huestis, M.A. (2007). Human Cannabinoid Pharmacokinetics. Chem. Biodivers. 4, 1770—1804.
Karschner, E.L., Darwin, W.D., Goodwin, R.S., Wright, S., and Huestis, M.A. (2011). Plasma cannabinoid pharmacokinetics following controlled oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol and oromucosal cannabis extract administration. Clin. Chem. 57, 66—75.
Mato, S., Del Olmo, E., and Pazos, A. (2003). Ontogenetic development of cannabinoid receptor expression and signal transduction functionality in the human brain. Eur. J. Neurosci. 17, 1747—1754.
McGilveray, I.J. (2005). Pharmacokinetics of cannabinoids. Pain Res. Manag. J. Can. Pain Soc. J. Société Can. Pour Trait. Douleur 10 Suppl A, 15A — 22A.

Full article: Cannabinoids in Your Body
Author: Uncredited
Visuals: Uncredited
Website: GHMedical

When you look this over it becomes apparent why you would choose tacking over edibles when you're treating life-threatening disease. Sublingual application offers around 13% bioavailibility to oral administration's meager 6%. You also avoid the breakdown by stomach acids and the running past the enzymes in the liver so anxious to convert THC into its incredibly psychoactive component.

We're still trying to find out how much bioavailability one gets with the addition of lecithin. Our resident expert got busy with life at a critical stage in the discussion.

Tacking, quite frankly, gives you a higher number of cannabinoids working on your behalf. Even given the increased bioavailability of adding lecithin to the edible you still have to contend with the lag time before you get the effects and the fact that dosing with edibles can be notoriously challenging.

You're treating serious disease. Sometimes that's going to mean you have to take the more difficult path. This may be one of those cases.