Brightlight's Strain Fest: Organics & LED

re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Thank you, I think my confusion was that I didn't realize potassium silicate was already a monosilicic acid, I thought it still had to be broken down before a plant could uptake it.
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Pro-Tekt has always been my choice for Si when I add any but sure it isn't organic. For a potassium free version of Si look at OSA/28. For organic Si look at Montana Grow Beneficial Si. In powder form so best for mixing in soil. Pumice can also be added to soil & has a silicate charge. I only use Si if my good pal Ca doesn't build strong enough stems. If using anything w/ chitin like crab meal, the chitin will also make for some tough hard stems.

Aspirin is an old time remedy 4D to ward off soil pathogens. We'd stick a few tablets right into the dirt around the plant.

Like you bob seldom get any Mg defs...maybe a rare Mg hog late in flower now & then. I use mostly coco, & it's full of Mg. Trouble is when any salts build up around the roots' stomata, the plant has a harder time accessing it. This is when I see so many resorting to liquid CaMg. Most CaMg products use nitrate forms of Ca & Mg....not the best in bloom or ever if trying to avoid nitrates. Just not a fan of CaMg at all. Keep a qt. around but it's last ditch resort stuff for me. Other ways to skin the cat imo. :Namaste:
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Products like Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt, Botanicare Silica Blast, etc., are dilutions of Potassium Silicate with a molecular formula of K2O3Si = soluble Potassium (K2), Oxygen (O3) and Silica (Si).

Potassium silicate is 'approved for organic food production' as are many other elemental mineral sources.

It's when you begin to look at mineral compounds that you find many which are banned or that their use is extremely limited.

Reason I suggest Pro-Tekt over the other products is the Silica (Si) level of 7.8% which is much higher than all the others mentioned.

This argument will likely persist for some years to come on if it's organic or not, but its approved by the FDA for organic produce ....

The real organic option is Horsetail Ferns.... I highly recommend using them.
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

I recall coming across 2 products which had highly concentrated potassium silicate when I was looking for which one to go with, couldn't get neither of them delivered here though :(

Silica Bloom by Advanced Floricultre 53.2%
Hydro Gardens Potassium silicate - 26.5%
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Cannoisseuras said:
Pure blend tea from botanicare?
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Hey how ya been man? Haven't use it but took a look at its ingredients. All good & useful stuff. Many "tea" type tonic supplements out there....hard to mess up a product using typical tea ingredients. If not certified organic but has typical organic ingredients then there's some "hidden" stuff like chemical chelators. If that matters. Some avoiding Botanicare nowadays since bought by Scotts Miracle Gro owned by Monsanto. Plants will like it....apolitical. :laughtwo: :Namaste:
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Mornin BL. Insane the neighborhoods wiped out in Sonoma. A day before the wind the news casually said dont mow your yard cause of fire danger and sparks. There should of been way more warnings. Way stronger warnings. Incredible the damage. Its still fucking burning today and 1000's of homes still in danger the news says this morning. Incredible.
The yard plant I bred had no mites and no caterpillars and is ready for chop. Very soon. Cant wait to grow more of what I bred. Its as good as any bought seed and very dense bud structure. Its going to pass for indoors. Pics to come.
Ive got 7 plants vegging in the laundry room that I wont have room for looks like. Tents full and wont harvest till new years or just passed it. Spring yard grow dont start till mid Feburary. Im thinking of supercropping 4 Bubbas and flowering those right after this tent harvest. Theyre 1.5 footers now!!
Lets get high 420!!
:passitleft:
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

brightlight said:
Sounds good to me bob. Thought all Dyna-Gro including Pro Tekt was inorganic due to chemical chelating agents like EDTA. Had thought PT to be only non organic ingredient I've been using so now can correctly say 100% organic. Not that I ever say that to anyone. Lol.
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Oh I forgot to add... you can purchase the pure Potassium silicate in powder form and mix your own for pennies.

AGSIL16H - from PQ corporation... can get a bag for under 10$... I like the Pro-Tekt because it's already mixed and ready to go and a bottle will last a while, as in several years a while.

I've done a little research into Pro-Tekt et all (potassium Silicate) and how it relates to organics....

2 REAL organic sources are Horsetail ferns and also malted barley - I use both and Pro-tekt... proof too much isn't harmful, or I'd have had a problem a long time ago. These 3 are ready to go into soil/foiler.

Also any of the Dynamic accumulators like Stinging Nettles, Comfrey (we grow Bocking 14 = sterile), Dandelions, Yarrow etc will all give us lots of soluble Si after composted. Any of these need to be composted.... Comfrey composts the fastest ... VERY fast as in #s of days. Can top dress with the leaves, that fast.
Of course any of the manures will have lots of Si (and many other compounds - leave that for another day). I prefer the "green" manures I.E. Comfrey.

Again I prefer Pro-Tekt and Horsetail for foilers and malted barley either mixed into soil and also as a tea watered in.

Quoted from the National Organic Standards Board:

"How Made:
Potassium silicates are manufactured using a calcination process that combines silica sand (SiO2) and potassium carbonate
(K2CO3) at 1100-2300°F for up to 15 minutes. The two substances fuse into glass,
which can be dissolved with high-pressure steam to form a clear, slightly viscous fluid, or cooled and ground into a powder.
Carbon dioxide is evolved from this reaction. The solution can be dried to form hydrous powder crystals of potassium silicate."

Sooo not all that "green" looking at it from a fossil fuel use perspective, but neither is growing plants indoors under artificial lights.... so no argument here :straightface:


To summarize; it's my opinion that Si silica/silicon has an important role in the gardens and specially in indoor container gardening to help with fighting off pests, building stronger healthier plants and to "to alleviate many abiotic and biotic stresses".


Abiotic stress = environmental stuff like drought, too much water, heat, cold and a really good one for you nutrient guys - helps alleviate salt and chemical toxicity.

biotic stress = stress that occurs as a result of damage done to an organism by other living organisms (bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites, insects etc).

The science.. warning gonna need a cup or 2 of coffee to get thru it, but this write-up is "in depth"... from Oxford University.

Silica in Plants: Biological, Biochemical and Chemical Studies | Annals of Botany | Oxford Academic
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

4Dutchess said:
Morning BL. I was reading you can flower out with a 4 tube T5?? True??
Have a great weekend 420!!
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Good morning Dutchess, BL and friends. yes you can flower out with that T5,...but keep in mind , the plant will NOT reach near it's full potential under just that lite. Florescents simply don't have the intensity to favor great bud development. That being said ,..you can still do it . Keep that light right on top of the plant/s OK..only an inch or two above the canopy OK. Cheers Dutchess, BL and friends!
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

4Dutchess said:
Morning BL. I was reading you can flower out with a 4 tube T5?? True??
Have a great weekend 420!!
Click to expand...

The T5 bulbs are available in different spectrums. They aren't just white lights anymore. If you have a 4 bulb, you aren't pulling a lot of watts, probably 96 watts if its 2 foot bulbs or 216 watts if its the 4 foot bulbs so I wouldn't hold out for a huge yield. If you are going to use T5s to flower, I recommend playing with the different spectrum bulbs to give it a more full spectrum. Me personally, I love T5s, but I like LEDs for flower better.
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

For different spec bulbs there's a US based company that makes these. Eye Hortilux and they make a line called 'Power Veg' which is 5 different bulb types, 420nm, 460nm, 633nm, 660nm & FS(full spectrum)+UV. They come in 2' HO & 4' HO, their website has suggested formulas for mixing them together based on flowering or vegging.

I use 2 of their 2' HO FS+UV bulbs as a way to introduce UV light into my tent, in the future I am going to introduce either more of the 2' ones or find a way to hook up a few 4' fixtures into my tent because I believe in the benefits of UVA + B on plants :thumb:
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Van Stank said:
The T5 bulbs are available in different spectrums. They aren't just white lights anymore. If you have a 4 bulb, you aren't pulling a lot of watts, probably 96 watts if its 2 foot bulbs or 216 watts if its the 4 foot bulbs so I wouldn't hold out for a huge yield. If you are going to use T5s to flower, I recommend playing with the different spectrum bulbs to give it a more full spectrum. Me personally, I love T5s, but I like LEDs for flower better.
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The T5's were given to me last year with the HPS's. Im using them for veg. Its gotten cool enough outside Im vegging now with my 600w HPS's with flip soon. Ive got too many plants vegging in my laundry room grow. I might flip a few in the closet in the tent room with a T5 maybe. Im pulling clones before flip. So even less vegging room. I super cropped 3 in the laundry grow and might do all 7 cause there too tall already. No Russets inside yet, laundry or tent. Im hoping my treatments work.
Ive thought about getting a LED for the closet in the tent room to flower while the tents flowering. That seems like the way to go. Any thoughts on a LED brand for a 4x4 tent?? I want it for half of my 5x9 so eventually I will run two of those in the tent instead of the two 600w HPS's.
Ive got 3 t5's that I just bought new bulbs for. Theyre white and were the expensive ones. I can tell many here are fond of the t5's and from my little experience I can tell theyre great for veg. Everythings rocking!! Tents beautiful! Laundry veg is beautiful! My Russet free home bred Indica cross is curing and wonderful! Ive got another Russet free in the yard to harvest and its a Purple Train Wreck that smells like Train Wreck. Ive got one more Pergutory thats got Russets in the yard to harvest too. I should of pulled it long ago. The yard Banana turned out great inspite the Russet infest and cant wait to flower her out in the tent. Nice hard nugs! And very stoney. She was picked early and is great, wait 3 months!! I might be building an enclosed greenhouse for the yard this November. 6am and high as shit already!! Great Day BL, 420.
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Teas....... Im already using the Recharge about twice a month after feed. I see a difference. I was reading to bubble some steer manure in the bucket for a tea. If so not sure the ratio. Im not sure if I should start adding a tea WITH my Recharge, by itself or not at all? Maybe just use Fox Farms teas they recommend for now. What your thoughts on teas???
Isent this fun!! Great Day 420!
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Man I get all excited talking about teas....

4Dutchess said:
Teas....... Im already using the Recharge about twice a month after feed. I see a difference. I was reading to bubble some steer manure in the bucket for a tea. If so not sure the ratio. Im not sure if I should start adding a tea WITH my Recharge, by itself or not at all? Maybe just use Fox Farms teas they recommend for now. What your thoughts on teas???
Isent this fun!! Great Day 420!
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Steer clear of steer manure... <-- see what I did there!? Too hot.. needs to compost, that and the smell/insects... bro have at it if you have a lot of it around. Be mindful of what the farmer feeds the animals, and also hormones and antibiotics ... why I go with green manure teas.

Can also use Malibu's BU Blend compost - it's cow manure composted from a biodynamic farm that is hormone and antibiotics free and they use proper organic feed stock. Certified biodynamic = most strict organic certification.

IF you are dead set on a manure tea, and there are some good ones,. Suggest trying a "green" manure tea. Say dandelions (plants and/or roots). Put a bunch in a bucket with water and let the sit. No need to aerate. In about a week, it will smell like manure. Don't get it on you, the smell doesn't wash off easily... don't ask me how I know! My wife told me. hahahahahha Opsie sniff sniff.... Wifey: "you smell like shit".... ummmmm every fox smells her own hole first - boom!

You can aerate any of the green teas for a few days and use them that way. It's best to jar them & let them soak for several weeks/months. The tea this way wont smell so strong after steeping, but the tea will be stronger than the aerated version. Dilute any of these 1 cup to at least a gallon of water (this is when you spill it so careful here).

There are lots of beneficial plants to make teas with - these are all considered green manure teas:

Comfrey
Yarrow
Dandelions
Nettles
Alfalfa
Sunflower
Ragweed
Clover/ Red Clover
Kelp (needs to come from clean ocean water) or kelp meal.

There are many more. These are considered Hyper Accumulators... I tried to list the common ones I can get locally or I have on hand as amendments for soil building.

I usually just make a EWC/kelp meal tea mainly. If I wanna kick things up I do a malted barley tea ...These 2 are not strong so I don't have to worry about burning my plants. My home made EWC will consist of many of those bio accumulators composted and eaten by the worms that make my EWC. Food for thought. But if you don't have worms or compost, yes can use plants and animal refuse.

Some of these teas can get pretty strong. Specially the animal manure teas. We can easily throw the soil nutrient balance out of wack. In containers its a thing... in outdoor gardens not so much.

So word of caution....

A little goes a long ways in containers due to the small amount of soil. Outdoors the soil is basically unlimited and the nutrients will spread very fast, they are mobile in overabundance. This points to cation exchange and all that good science.
 
re: Brightlight's Strain Fest - Organics & LED

Hey 4D....thanks to Duggan, Van & GoP looks they provided good info on T5's. Compared to your HPS, T5 flowers would look pitiful. To me T5's are old tech., mine sit around collecting dust. Don't even like them for indoor veg....too lanky & stretchy. Ok for outdoor starts but that's about all imo.

LED options are plentiful these days, but imo still only a few that really stand out. It's all about budget & your expectations. I don't want some home hobby light for flower....wanted a high performance commercial duty light. By that I mean high PPFD measured in umol, which for my taste had to exceed 1000 umol. My flower LED creates 1400 umol. A DE 1000w HPS is still king so I wanted my LED to match or exceed. Passive cooling is also a plus....if mfr. is confident enough to eliminate fans, then it has good chance to run somewhat cool. But a watt is a watt so heat is gonna be there. Important if you want to run all year long, which was important to me too. I didn't want to have a big investment sitting idle during the warmer months.

On teas, thanks to bob brown....no one better than him to answer on teas. Indoors I just use a no brew tea like Veganic Special Sauce or make a few concoctions of my own that are like quick tonics. My brewer makes too much for indoor growing plus needs cleaning even at lower volumes & I really don't like cleaning it after every use. So only now & then anymore for me....big when I grow outside. Teas can't be kept around long...have to be used up. But if you're feeding synthetics, why do you need teas? Not needed in your growing style. Teas are to create microbes, which are the foot soldiers in organic style. Teas can't hurt in any style but seems like a waste to be brewing up large microbe populations when your synthetics are already plant ready & not conducive to microbes. Same w/ stuff like Recharge....can help but really for organics, not synthetic style. Not cheap either so have to decide whether worth the $. If I was a synthetic grower, I'd stick to synthetics...not try to mix in all the organic stuff too. Just my opinion 4D. :Namaste:
 
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