Thanks @Keffka - great post, and bookmarked!
Brand Spankin New ViparSpectra KS5000 Grows Herbies Seeds Collection In LOS
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That could be it but it wouldn’t account for differences in viability between synthetically grown strains and organically grown strains. All things being equal they should be equivalent, however they’re not. (According to breeders.. I would really like to see an empirical study done on this, it would answer many, many problems)
Personally, I think what’s more likely is a combination of what you’re saying and the approaches involved in breeding. Synthetically grown strains can be “propped up” essentially. For every weakness/issue in synthetic grows you can throw a chemical at it, or attempt to replicate the process the plant isn’t performing to standard. When it comes to organic you can’t/shouldn’t necessarily prop the plant up the same way. If you have an issue, you’re pretty limited to fixing the medium or the environment.
So what happens is, synthetically you can grow unstable strains that just won’t be as vigorous or viable. They’ll still grow of course (life wants to happen, it appears to be the standard not the exception) however they’re inherently unstable, which depending on how you grow could either be a problem requiring you to look elsewhere, or could just require extra input from the grower.
Bred organically, the plant has to perform these processes itself and prove its worthy of reproduction. An organic breeder can’t/shouldn’t replicate any natural internal processes, and needs to instead depend on the stability of the genetics themselves after checking all other limiting factors. This is also most likely why we see so many different types of synthetic strains in comparison to organic strains. The options are limitless when you’re performing all of the plants tasks for it. When you’re just providing the ideal environment and soil, you’re pretty locked into what your genetics will allow.
This is all without regard to GMO strains. Tinkering with genetics we don’t fully understand can lead to amazing or horrifying results.
All that being said, we’re alive at a hell of a time and that’s for sure. We’re about to be inundated with massive amounts of data and new knowledge that will hopefully shed some light on all this so we have actual data points to work from. As long as we don’t blow ourselves back into the Stone Age we should begin rapidly tearing down the curtains on a lot of the inner workings.
@InTheShed
Lol I just realized after re reading what we both wrote that yes, it’s most likely not directly related to the type of nutrients fed. The argument organic breeders put up is that the tissue is effected by synthetic nutrients, I’m not sure I buy that. A nutrient is a nutrient, it’s the method of delivery that differs. I can see how delivery would impact other things like terpenes, flavonoids, etc. but tissue health itself is a rather bold claim.
Perhaps this has an impact on tissue health but I won’t accept that without evidence of some sort. Which, we should hopefully get within my lifetime.
Lol I just realized after re reading what we both wrote that yes, it’s most likely not directly related to the type of nutrients fed. The argument organic breeders put up is that the tissue is effected by synthetic nutrients, I’m not sure I buy that. A nutrient is a nutrient, it’s the method of delivery that differs. I can see how delivery would impact other things like terpenes, flavonoids, etc. but tissue health itself is a rather bold claim.
Perhaps this has an impact on tissue health but I won’t accept that without evidence of some sort. Which, we should hopefully get within my lifetime.
I'm with you 100% on that! I have never believed that the leaves or flowers can tell the source of an ion of nitrogen. I like the gardenmyths guy who says this:
"From a strictly chemical nutrient point of view organic is not better, nor is it worse than synthetic. It is exactly the same."
Source
But he does go on to list the benefits of organic soil, so he's not a fanatic!
Wonderfully succinct article, and I definitely agree. A nutrient element itself is simply the resource used to build life’s molecules. Humans can exist on solely McDonald’s just the same as an all organic diet. There’s probably going to be some quality of life differences and that’s how I see the differences between synthetic and organic.
I have nothing against synthetics. They have their place. I also believe that the more we learn the complete picture on how organics work the closer synthetics will get to replicating it. We simply don’t have the knowledge yet to be able to understand fully what’s happening let alone replicate it, but once we do, organic will very likely become obsolete.
This of course assumes earth isn’t special, and that our nature isn’t a one off complexity that can never be fully understood. Until that day though, I like to lean toward nature simply because we don’t understand it enough. However that’s an entire philosophical debate not necessarily meant for Stones journal
Why do you say this? I would argue that it's going to go the other way. There are entire countries that are outlawing the use of synthetic fertilizers and, with the whole "green movement," I would think as organics get better understood that they would be where the momentum will be.
I agree with Azi on this subject. A lot of the ingredients in our grows are simply not sustainable and promote poor environmental management. A lot of people are becoming more earth conscious and I can't see organic grows becoming obsolete. They also work, so people employ organic methods because they work.
You both seem to have missed the bottom part of my message.
Synthetics are not sustainable and cannot match organics because we don’t understand everything that happens in organics. The amount of bacteria and fungi alone that are working in an organic grow that are unidentified prevent us from fully understanding. If we don’t fully understand we can’t fully replicate it.
Synthetics are us replicating what we see in nature very inefficiently. Hence why we pour gallons of phosphorus into the soil just to capture milliliters of it in the plant.
If our planet is a one off miracle with a complex nature that cannot be fully understood, then yes, organics will always be king.
However, If it turns out that our nature and our planet are just one of trillions of natures and planets then we will eventually be able to understand this given enough time, resources, and knowledge. Once we understand it we will be able to replicate it.
You two are thinking from a very earth and human centric POV that I don’t think is reasonable given the scale of our galaxy, never mind our universe.
Like I said, philosophical debate
Dude, I want some of what you've been smokingYou both seem to have missed the bottom part of my message.
Synthetics are not sustainable and cannot match organics because we don’t understand everything that happens in organics. The amount of bacteria and fungi alone that are working in an organic grow that are unidentified prevent us from fully understanding. If we don’t fully understand we can’t fully replicate it.
Synthetics are us replicating what we see in nature very inefficiently. Hence why we pour gallons of phosphorus into the soil just to capture milliliters of it in the plant.
If our planet is a one off miracle with a complex nature that cannot be fully understood, then yes, organics will always be king.
However, If it turns out that our nature and our planet are just one of trillions of natures and planets then we will eventually be able to understand this given enough time, resources, and knowledge. Once we understand it we will be able to replicate it.
You two are thinking from a very earth and human centric POV that I don’t think is reasonable given the scale of our galaxy, never mind our universe.
Like I said, philosophical debate
I don't know what all the complexities are just that organic is not going anywhere. It really isn't likely to become obsolete. Yeah let's hope they find another living planet out there that doesn't mind being colonized by a bunch of selfish, ignorant earthlings. The robot wars are coming......
Ribbit 
Dude, I want some of what you've been smoking
I don't know what all the complexities are just that organic is not going anywhere. It really isn't likely to become obsolete. Yeah let's hope they find another living planet out there that doesn't mind being colonized by a bunch of selfish, ignorant earthlings. The robot wars are coming......
I grew it organically so I’m pretty baked consistently
Dude don’t get me started on robots
personally while I believe there’s the capability to outpace organics I think what will most likely happen is we will create a combination of technologies that will deem us a nuisance and remove us. With the way I speak to Alexa and Siri I’ll probably be one of the first to be taken out 
What the hell?!
Robots and aliens!
I want some of what all of you have been smoking.
Robots and aliens!
I want some of what all of you have been smoking.
That and they want their smoke to be chemical free. Imho. CL
I would argue that this will differ by country. Specifically the US vs the rest of the earth. In the US I can easily see the synthetics rule. Americans are short sighted, impatient, and have no respect for tradition. They are wimps generally speaking when it comes to dirty work like mulching and such. Such a pathetic country of losers I live in. So they will gravitate to the easiest possible path on the Zon, where they live. The rest of the world is much more developed as human beings and thus has the patience and such to perhaps gravitate towards the organic regardless of the state of synthetics. Not to mention that every poor country and people on earth who grow weed (Malawi farmers, for example) will never use synthetics and find the best natural solutions by necessity. To remove that subset from the mix would be a significant percentage. For me, I’d like to have a fully organic liquid system specifically designed for use in water based systems.
My two cents.
- Thread starter
- #294
I prefer to think of us as a larger than usual group of folks that live at different levels of reality Jon. Those "losers" have different skill sets and some/all of them out skill mine in every case I'm sure in some ways. What do "they" think of you/us with that attitude?
I've been thinking, and yes I know when I do that it "weakens the nation" (3 stooges)
, we have different needs here depending on where we live on this continent. We all just need to acknowledge that, foster good relations, and work together for better community.Those "losers" have been tutored and lied to maybe by their employers who they rely on to feed their family's. This is a hard reality of living in my pretty big and diverse country. I'm just getting a clue as to the size of this reality!
Well as usual @StoneOtter you take the high road where I took the low. Thanks for the gentle reminder. You’re a good man SO. The more clues I get about the reality of this country the more I’m embarrassed to be an American. That’s just me. Half this country is sickeningly racist and homophonic. That alone is embarrassing. But you’re right of course. And I’ll bow now on further commentary along these lines. Let’s talk plants. My bad.I prefer to think of us as a larger than usual group of folks that live at different levels of reality Jon. Those "losers" have different skill sets and some/all of them out skill mine in every case I'm sure in some ways. What do "they" think of you/us with that attitude?
I've been thinking, and yes I know when I do that it "weakens the nation" (3 stooges)
Those "losers" have been tutored and lied to maybe by their employers who they rely on to feed their family's. This is a hard reality of living in my pretty big and diverse country. I'm just getting a clue as to the size of this reality!
- Thread starter
- #296
You're a beautiful man Jon! Being the example of that is what we can do and you're knocking that out of the park!
This is a hard reality we never knew we lived until reminded a couple/few years ago. I didn't know it was this big! Keep the love man!
You and I have talked about this a few times now.. Your reality and mine are not the same even if we live 50 miles apart (never mind living across a continent sized nation).. it’s very easy to think everyone should do things the way you do yourself when you put your perception on to others. I used to feel much closer to @Jon on this subject which ironically was also when I didn’t believe in mental health. Once I personally experienced a mental breakdown I realized there’s no way I could even come close to understanding what every other human has been through and got them to their current state of mind. It’s easy to think everyone else is just lazy or cheap, it makes the world make sense.I prefer to think of us as a larger than usual group of folks that live at different levels of reality Jon. Those "losers" have different skill sets and some/all of them out skill mine in every case I'm sure in some ways. What do "they" think of you/us with that attitude?
I've been thinking, and yes I know when I do that it "weakens the nation" (3 stooges)
Those "losers" have been tutored and lied to maybe by their employers who they rely on to feed their family's. This is a hard reality of living in my pretty big and diverse country. I'm just getting a clue as to the size of this reality!
This is also why diversity is so important and makes us stronger. The same as our plantcestors.
Organically grown bagseed!! Hit me harder than any other strain I’ve ever smoked.. I had to check my heartbeat and remind myself I smokedWhat the hell?!
Robots and aliens!
I want some of what all of you have been smoking.
only thing close was one time in high school which may just be nostalgia and lack of experience effecting that memory lol
Think you had a great seed my friend. Nothing more, nothing less..Organically grown bagseed!! Hit me harder than any other strain I’ve ever smoked.. I had to check my heartbeat and remind myself I smoked
Dang bro. I miss few days and I got read a book.lmao. wow. .
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