#ViparSpectra KS5000 and Otter for the win!
They look to be in their element
They look to be in their element
Brand Spankin New ViparSpectra KS5000 Grows Herbies Seeds Collection In LOS
- Thread starter StoneOtter
- Start date
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- #262
Hey Carmen! Good morning yep they're feeling it! I'm like 10ish am. What time of day is it in SA?#ViparSpectra KS5000 and Otter for the win!
They look to be in their element
Books smooks!
I figured this stuff out the hard way like real (dumb) growers do!
I figured this stuff out the hard way like real (dumb) growers do!
Hey Otter
It is almost 5 pm and it is 24 C. It feels like it is in the 30s because there is not a breath of wind. I hope your day turns out to be awesome. What are the temps there today?- Thread starter
- #265
Well me too actually. I figured I should look at the book. Now readers can be better than us.Books smooks!
I figured this stuff out the hard way like real (dumb) growers do!
It's a beautiful summery day then! mmmmmmmmHey Otter
So if my math is right, the Photone app is working beautifully. It’s got you right at about what you should expect for that intensity and distance. Nice.POT UP TUESDAY! WOOHOO!
Good Tuesday folks! A great day to give these growing creatures a new home or larger stomach I should say. They went into #1 pots that i call 1 gallon pots. I looked them up today and they actually hold 3/4 of a gallon. My curiosity satisfied!
Anyway, it went well, everybody is looking healthy under it all. The one pictured is the weakest of them. I stunted her. She came back like a champ! Here she is just before I wet her down and peppered her with myco.
And after, then into the hole!
I made a new @ViparSpectra tent config.
and gave them a medium amount of sweet light from the KS5000. That's 50% power at around 14 inches I think, putting out awesome brilliance I'm reading on the Photone app I'm trying out.
I always date my soil so I know when to use it. After a month I don't worry. After 2 I'm excited to use it. After that it's like black gold to be held in highest honor.
Wishing you all a great day! Go grow some weed!
Like I said, not meant for dialing in a commercial grow where you’re answering to stockholders but way more than enough for our purposes (5 bucks and I didn’t have to go anywhere or wait on a delivery
)
I need to ask how do you store your seeds and how long do you think they stay viable?
And by the way nice on the uppotting.
I’m sure there going to turn into green ribbon trophies of the tropical flora variety.
So seed viability is typically influenced by whether or not synthetic nutrients were used. When synthetic nutrients are used the viability will be around 2 years when left just lying around. Organically bred seeds will stay 100% viable for 5 years under the same environmental conditions.I need to ask how do you store your seeds and how long do you think they stay viable?
And by the way nice on the uppotting.
When correctly stored in a light proof air proof container placed in the refrigerator, organic seeds will stay good at least 10 years before any loss in viability and as much as 20 years when placed in the freezer. Synthetic seeds stored in this manner will get you 5 in the fridge and 10 in the freezer.
Plants have happied up nicely sir! Must be the multiple Tuesday thing that got them towing the line.
It is? I'd love to see that study if you can put your hands on it.
I’ve got quite a bit on it on my PC.. I’ll reply in the morning with actual links.. kid and puppy need to go to sleep but are fighting it, hence me still being awake at 11:15 lol typing this so I remember I owe you
Hey S.O. how’s about showing the top of the tent so we can see how your hanging your awesome new lightPOT UP TUESDAY! WOOHOO!
Good Tuesday folks! A great day to give these growing creatures a new home or larger stomach I should say. They went into #1 pots that i call 1 gallon pots. I looked them up today and they actually hold 3/4 of a gallon. My curiosity satisfied!
Anyway, it went well, everybody is looking healthy under it all. The one pictured is the weakest of them. I stunted her. She came back like a champ! Here she is just before I wet her down and peppered her with myco.
And after, then into the hole!
I made a new @ViparSpectra tent config.
and gave them a medium amount of sweet light from the KS5000. That's 50% power at around 14 inches I think, putting out awesome brilliance I'm reading on the Photone app I'm trying out.
I always date my soil so I know when to use it. After a month I don't worry. After 2 I'm excited to use it. After that it's like black gold to be held in highest honor.
Wishing you all a great day! Go grow some weed!
. CL
- Thread starter
- #272
My elcheepo meter finally gave up the ghost and this phone app is handy as it gets!So if my math is right, the Photone app is working beautifully. It’s got you right at about what you should expect for that intensity and distance. Nice.
Like I said, not meant for dialing in a commercial grow where you’re answering to stockholders but way more than enough for our purposes (5 bucks and I didn’t have to go anywhere or wait on a delivery
Hey Nev, I keep them in a cookie tin in a cool part of the house. They should be in the fridge but we don't roll that way yet. Seed storage from my reading can be variable and some will say feminized seeds have a shorter shelf life. I've heard folks say regular seeds can germinate for 10 to 20+ years. That's amazing! That's talk though from breeders so maybe yes or no.I need to ask how do you store your seeds and how long do you think they stay viable?
And by the way nice on the uppotting.
Will do CL.Hey S.O. how’s about showing the top of the tent so we can see how your hanging your awesome new light
Ok my bad.. I got my wires crossed on this one.. What I have is quite a few studies and reports that explain all the known factors affecting seed viability. The major factors affecting viability in storage are related to what I posted. Temperature, RH, light, air.
Those are the major factors that affect the storage viability, however provenance and/or “pre-harvest” also majorly affect seed viability, aka seed vigor. Seeds are embryonic plants, with a nutrition source inside. In flowering plants, the nutritional materials are composed of oils, fats, starches, and many other compounds including sugars.
During pre harvest a variety of factors such as the environment (temperature), stress, nutrition, drought, etc all have an effect on the quality of the seed. “All parts of the seed deteriorate with time, the damage from which can be sustained by the chemical constituents of seeds and the way these compounds interact to form biological structures. Integrity of DNA, proteins, and membranes is especially important for maintaining seed viability”
“Environmental stresses, including deficiency of minerals (including nitrogen, potassium, and calcium), water and temperature extremes during seed development and prior to physiological maturity can also reduce the longevity of seeds.”
So because seeds are made of genetic materials that are heavily influenced by environmental stresses, the plants natural processes, and also include strain specific rhizophagy bacteria refined over the strains life time that are stored in the seed itself, and upon germination escape into the medium around them, it gives us a small window to theorize. (This strain specific rhizophagy, and the natural nutritional processes I believe is going to be where the influences are happening)
In the 70s and 80s “wild” cannabis seeds it was written, were found to last far, far longer than domesticated plants. There’s records that show these wild canna seeds lasting as long as 1300 years in some instances.
Modern breeders see nothing even close to that. What they have seen though is that plants they have grown synthetically, and those that have been forced to seed (feminized), quickly break down, become unstable and lose viability.. Within 2 years in some instances they notice a marked loss in quality. In a lot of instances, certain strains can no longer be grown outdoors without “herming”.
Whereas organic seed breeders are seeing viability for as long as 10 years without intentional proper storage in some instances, normally more around 5 without protection.
Due to 70+ years of prohibition and at least 50+ years of research prohibition, a lot of what we have in terms of data comes from breeders. This is quickly changing due to a variety of federal initiatives and cannabis being legal in multiple states, but it still leaves us with a dearth of hard scientific data.
We have a lot of knowledge (which is quickly exploding due to the threat of extinction to at least 8% of our current plant life) on the influences on seed viability and vigor. However, seeds can vary wildly from phenotype to phenotype never mind cultivar to cultivar. I’ve posted a bit of it up top and will link the resources for others to see.
So with all of this, plus what we now know of strain specific bacteria that is seed bound upon reproduction, it is believed that the current methods of synthetic growing weaken the plants natural systems. A lot of the innate processes the plant performs are being replaced by growers using sterile mediums and synthetically chelated nutrients. These processes need to be developed within the plant and if we’re performing them for the plant the plant has no reason to perform them itself. Thus leading to a weakening in the plants ability to effectively reproduce.
Not only that, these bacteria that are bound within the seed have been refined over generations. When growers germinate into a paper towel or sterile media, that evolved bacteria is lost forever. These bacteria carry everything from resistance to PM, to the ability to generate root hairs. Losing them upon germination has massive implications for the stability of the plant, and it loses years of evolution. This is a relatively recent finding (first observed in 2018). I’ve been digging into it and am quite gobsmacked at what they’re observing.
With all of that being said, we’re left with what breeders have told us, what science is seeing, what growers have seen when using synthetic versus organic methods, and a few major inferences and implications. The breeders obviously have reasons to be less than honest, however if you take the average of each of their claims you’re left with similar numbers to what I posted. At the end of the day we’re left to rely upon the integrity of our fellow growers for a lot of this. I’ve sourced my time frames only from reputable breeders and their observations and statements.
Seeds seem so innocuous but are so wildly interesting I’m excited to see where we go from here. With funding amping up, and money to be found, you can bet us Canna growers will be getting a lot more data in the coming years. With advances in microscopy that allow us to see at the atomic level we hopefully will start unleashing some truly strong evidence. There’s still plenty of room for folks to get in and make their mark.
In the future I’ll make sure I add a disclaimer when referring to longevity
Here’s the links to the different references:
Genetic Aspects and Molecular Causes of Seed Longevity in Plants—A Review
Seed longevity is the most important trait related to the management of gene banks because it governs the regeneration cycle of seeds. Thus, seed longevity is a quantitative trait. Prior to the discovery of molecular markers, classical genetic studies ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Pre- and Post-harvest Influences on Seed Dormancy Status of an Australian Goodeniaceae species, Goodenia fascicularis
The period during which seeds develop on the parent plant has been found to affect many seed characteristics, including dormancy, through interactions with the environment. Goodenia fascicularis (Goodeniaceae) seeds were used to investigate whether seeds ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I’m Glad You Asked: The Seed – UC Botanical Garden
botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu
This is a straight up amazing post. Thanks so much for the info. Most helpful.
We’ve been forced to rely on each other for so long because we’re “dirty dope heads”
that Im all about spreading as much knowledge as far as I can. With the caliber of members we have here we can quickly come to some pretty strong conclusions just by sharing basic data and information. The more we know and share the better we all become.
Yup. Well done. Muchas gracias.
We’ve been forced to rely on each other for so long because we’re “dirty dope heads”
Brilliant.
Thanks for taking the time, I appreciate it.
#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284
But certainly not 100% are lost in the paper towel. The bacteria live inside the roots so presumably there are still some left to repopulate the mix, no?
I’m currently reading about it in more detail and have another book on the topic coming tomorrow. It would seem extremely unlikely that all of the bacteria would escape since we are talking about endophytes. I further believe it would be unlikely because people are/have growing/grown plants in these conditions.
From the way I perceive it, there are specific bacteria that reside inside the shell, and others that reside within the embryo. We’ve recently begun identifying and naming these different bacteria, but the findings are still in their infancy and the ability to actually see it take place is also relatively new as well.
Thanks for the clarification Keffka! To me that makes it sound like inbreeding, selective breeding, and reversal has weakened the seed stock rather than anything having to do with what nutes were used on the plants.
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