Autos v. Photos - A 5x5 No Rules Fight for Yield: A Jon & NickHardy Gig

Forgedda ‘bout it.

A momentary lapse in my innate sense of confidence stranded away from home 😂

Apologies. We good.

Just had a better look at the girls wanting to meddle and tinker with them.

Pistils starting to show.

That’s after 6 days. For anyone that might find this helpful I’ve flipped 3 different ways in the last 6 weeks.

#1 Standard (what we have always done)

18/6 to 12/12 - Pistils after 8-10 Days

#2 Res Dog 36 Hours Darkness

18/6 to 36 hours of darkness the 12/12 - pistils 10-12 Days.

#3 Gradual flip

Here I went 18/6 - next day 16/8 - next day 14/10 - next day 12/12 - pistils in 5-6 days.

The same OGK strain/breeder was used for #2 and #3

#standard was used the same day as this grow went 12/12 and is behind, by at least a couple of days. They’re a different strain (Banner x GG) but my gut feel is that even a rudimentary nod to the slow changing seasons works better. Perhaps the stress makes them think “wtf?” And hormone production stalls.

Impact on yield I’m not worried about - impact on stretch perhaps. Having flipped at a lower height than last time I’m suddenly worried about vertical growth being too little which I confess is an absolute first!

They’re getting the same lower range fert fix as ever. I can’t see myself changing it.

Dutch Pro we use give a guidance of 2-3ml for their A/B with a target EC of 2.0-2.4*without supplemental Co2.

We used to go 3.0ml and higher and EC around or above 3.0. The basis for this was a well known Prof Bruce Bugbee youtube video on light and Co2 usage from a few years back where he showed with enough light and Co2 the max yield curve potentially makes 3.0 EC useful. In our experience it didn’t and it gave smaller bud sizes.

Now we run the bottom end 2.0ml/litre through out flower and the EC comes in at 2.4 to 2.6 but the bud size is much improved.
We use the rest of their amendments as recommended (Total - an amino type thing and their Bloom Explode, $100 a litre 😅) as recommended apart from their Silica which we double because its not as strong as the Dr Weed one Jon and ai have both used in the past. That stuff is magic but cost me $100 for 100ml

Cal Mag we use at 2.5ml/litre its 4-0-0 plus Fe. That’s 500ml a fert tank mix 🤣

With our lights and gas you even think of dropping it and you insta get signs of deficiencies.

So in terms of the feed mix apart from when we add in and then stop the Explode nothing is going to change from here on out.

Sprayed with Nativo today a fungicide popular in the tropics for anti wilt. Its also used to improve “bag appeal” for everything from cauliflower to nuts. Its legal everywhere but California but that’s for harm to aquatic life - not humans. A couple of forms of wilt are common here. They’ll also get a last couple of neem treatments in the coming days and that’s it.

From here on out lights are maxed, the nutes are set and just a little plant tickling to come.

I dunno maybe I can start watering whilst juggling machetes to make it nore exciting 😂

I would like to try 16 hour days, I have s theory that once you get a photo properly in flower going 8 ON - 8 OFF won’t stall or reveg them.

There have often been those who say more than 6 hours continuous light is wasted without a break. I’d need a new light timer but such things can be bought.

Anyway mid September. Sox likely have tied up a playoffs spot but be crushing. You Quakers long resigned to the fact ‘the season is gone.

🤣

Good Day to you, Sir,

Nick

IMG_1582.jpeg
Have you ever tried the gradual flip thing before? That’s pretty radical. What is the goal with three different flip schedules? Just to try different stuff?
 
Pistils starting to show.

That’s after 6 days. For anyone that might find this helpful I’ve flipped 3 different ways in the last 6 weeks.

#1 Standard (what we have always done)

18/6 to 12/12 - Pistils after 8-10 Days

#2 Res Dog 36 Hours Darkness

18/6 to 36 hours of darkness the 12/12 - pistils 10-12 Days.

#3 Gradual flip

Here I went 18/6 - next day 16/8 - next day 14/10 - next day 12/12 - pistils in 5-6 days.

The same OGK strain/breeder was used for #2 and #3
And number of days was counted how, the first non-18/6 day was day 1, or was day 1 once they got past the the 36 hour/graduated shift period?
 
Have you ever tried the gradual flip thing before? That’s pretty radical. What is the goal with three different flip schedules? Just to try different stuff?
I did it years ago started on 12 hrs (clone) and every 2 days I put the time up an hour till I got to 18 then I stayed there for a week then went back down the same way and I had no stretch and had the chunkiest looking little plant that was 2 ft high
 
Have you ever tried the gradual flip thing before? That’s pretty radical. What is the goal with three different flip schedules?
Just the 101 is flip straight from 18/6 to to 12/12 is now the common thing anyone does. You know I tried the 36 hours darkness thing @ReservoirDog (hope you’re OK buddy!) suggested. In my testing not worth it. The gradual I have read about people doing, a lot of the newest lights from sponsors like @VIVOSUN and @Mars Hydro have wifi and can be programmed with this sort of stuff. My timers are a bit nore of a faff to adjust so I just did manual over ride a couple of nights and the electrican changed to 12/12. I don’t like opening our electrical control boxes with the fuses and magnetic contacts. @Wastei and @Absorber for the smarts for calling exactly what I’m seeing.

Maybe I don’t want too much height!

8/8 I really believe in - no one has convinced me they’ll reveg if they only get 8 hours of light and darkness if you get them solidly in to flower first. There’s a sci fi book by one the top guys on that details plant responses growing in space. With Matt Daaay-mon. I’m basing a lot of my theory on that 😂 But also if 6/2 works for DWC why not 8/8?

And number of days was counted how
I’m counting from the 5th Jan when I put in paper and jon in dirt. Otherwise it would be the 7th when I put them with tails in dirt. Flip is from the first full day of 12/12 which was 12th Feb so Day #6 for me.
Don’t forget to clean out the undercarriages Nick.
What a guy, eh? All that training and work and still has time to coach me along the way. 🙏🏼

🤣
 
So it's not about saving time by having pistils a few days earlier for you, but rather other factors like reducing the stretch?
Just learning and experimenting. Treating every grow as precious right now. As it may be my last. Electricity saving given I got my first plus $1000 monthly bill in a while last week is nice too!

As it happens - my last grow in this very tent I felt were too tall and skinny/lanky style. I’m always looking for improvements. The harder I practice. Guess I got lucky and that slower flip might be inclined to shorter stockier plants that say need less physical support or can avoid light burn more easily in the confines of a tent.

Dunno?

Who knew?!

I’ll take my luck when it comes!

NickNock

PS - I’ll change my custom title to NickNock if I lose for a month 🤣 if our hosts will indulge me!

If anyone is wondering how I have my second - I luck boxed the 4/20 Day contests grand draw last year and chose “Cannabis Enthusiasts” custom title we’re humble people. If you’d like your own then some of the Patreon Memberships include the benefit of choosing your own - subject to approval by the team. I changed mine mostly to recognise my wife aka “& Co”!

This journal gets to my Skin&Eyes™ technology discussion (no ™ allowed in titles!) enlightenment from about week 4 flower.onwards. its for advanced growers only 🤣
 
I did it years ago started on 12 hrs (clone) and every 2 days I put the time up an hour till I got to 18 then I stayed there for a week then went back down the same way and I had no stretch and had the chunkiest looking little plant that was 2 ft high
Huh! So @Absorber, I guess it sounds like the point is that by doing it one can control the stretch? Very interesting. Sort of allows you to shape the plant to your particular needs in yet one more way eh?
 
Huh! So @Absorber, I guess it sounds like the point is that by doing it one can control the stretch? Very interesting. Sort of allows you to shape the plant to your particular needs in yet one more way eh?
Yea wish I had a picture of it but it was about 35 years ago
 
Just the 101 is flip straight from 18/6 to to 12/12 is now the common thing anyone does. You know I tried the 36 hours darkness thing @ReservoirDog (hope you’re OK buddy!) suggested. In my testing not worth it. The gradual I have read about people doing, a lot of the newest lights from sponsors like @VIVOSUN and @Mars Hydro have wifi and can be programmed with this sort of stuff. My timers are a bit nore of a faff to adjust so I just did manual over ride a couple of nights and the electrican changed to 12/12. I don’t like opening our electrical control boxes with the fuses and magnetic contacts. @Wastei and @Absorber for the smarts for calling exactly what I’m seeing.

Maybe I don’t want too much height!

8/8 I really believe in - no one has convinced me they’ll reveg if they only get 8 hours of light and darkness if you get them solidly in to flower first. There’s a sci fi book by one the top guys on that details plant responses growing in space. With Matt Daaay-mon. I’m basing a lot of my theory on that 😂 But also if 6/2 works for DWC why not 8/8?


I’m counting from the 5th Jan when I put in paper and jon in dirt. Otherwise it would be the 7th when I put them with tails in dirt. Flip is from the first full day of 12/12 which was 12th Feb so Day #6 for me.

What a guy, eh? All that training and work and still has time to coach me along the way. 🙏🏼

🤣
Sorry, I’m a noob. You lost me on the 8/8 stuff. Can you help clarify for my addled brain please?
 
Yea wish I had a picture of it but it was about 35 years ago
Jesus. You have been growing that long? That makes you around my age unless you started when you were six. And you still climb trees to grow plants just to do it? Damn. I’ve said this before but shit man, you’re a straight up animal.
:adore: :adore: :adore:
 
Sorry, I’m a noob. You lost me on the 8/8 stuff. Can you help clarify for my addled brain please?
I think he's referring to doing something like this but with 8 on 8 off.
 
Jesus. You have been growing that long? That makes you around my age unless you started when you were six. And you still climb trees to grow plants just to do it? Damn. I’ve said this before but shit man, you’re a straight up animal.
:adore: :adore: :adore:
Im 53 this year ,I had a break from growing for a few years though
 
Just learning and experimenting. Treating every grow as precious right now. As it may be my last. Electricity saving given I got my first plus $1000 monthly bill in a while last week is nice too!

As it happens - my last grow in this very tent I felt were too tall and skinny/lanky style. I’m always looking for improvements. The harder I practice. Guess I got lucky and that slower flip might be inclined to shorter stockier plants that say need less physical support or can avoid light burn more easily in the confines of a tent.

Dunno?

Who knew?!

I’ll take my luck when it comes!

NickNock

PS - I’ll change my custom title to NickNock if I lose for a month 🤣 if our hosts will indulge me!

If anyone is wondering how I have my second - I luck boxed the 4/20 Day contests grand draw last year and chose “Cannabis Enthusiasts” custom title we’re humble people. If you’d like your own then some of the Patreon Memberships include the benefit of choosing your own - subject to approval by the team. I changed mine mostly to recognise my wife aka “& Co”!

This journal gets to my Skin&Eyes™ technology discussion (no ™ allowed in titles!) enlightenment from about week 4 flower.onwards. its for advanced growers only 🤣
You are too much man. I can’t wait to meet you in person at the Philly airport.
 
I think he's referring to doing something like this but with 8 on 8 off.
You mean like 24 to 22 to whatever but in 8hour on/off shifts? @NickHardy , I know I’m not an advanced grower like you but will you please step down from your ivory pedestal and clarify for this newbie?
 
Instead of a day on earth being a 24 hr cycle what if we reduce the cycle time from 24hrs down to 16 hrs for example ? With a special timer could we get plants to grow and flower on a shorter cycle ,therefore doing a complete grow in 2 -3 months instead of 4-5 months .
Oh! That’s what you mean! You’re talking about reducing the entire DAY in hours of light. All the way to 16. Then split that 8/8 for flower. Yes? Okay. That’s cool. Probably works for someone in @NickHardy (‘s) position where the more you harvest the more you make. If that’s it and I get it now, thanks. And very interesting.
 
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