Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hey Antics, it looks like it's headed in the right direction, UP and GREEN. I would love to add some words of wisdom here and make it all better but the LED panel thingy is new to me as well. King John had mentioned the cal/mag to me and I think it is helping things are looking alot better in my Cabinet. Keep up the good work and all will be be right in the grow.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

What is going on here? People relax, peace and love and beautiful plants to all! The equipment is irrelevant, everything is irrelevant if we all learn from our mistakes and help each other! Antics is an amazing member of this forum and person! This journal has been very good for me to read because I'm learning a ton! Don't insult anyone! We all have things that we know or don't know!

I had no knowledge of anything and my girl is now on 9th week, she's flowering like a champ thanks to Antics. I haven't posted here more because I don't know anything about LED growing. This has been a tough experience, but also a learning experience for Antics, it sucks that your plan is having so many issues, but in the end what we need is to help each other, learn from each other and grow some beautiful plants! Also don't feed trolls or bad mannered people. Just ignore them and let them go into the unknown where they can reflect about the uselessness of their words and actions and then become wiser.

Don't blame me for your successful grow lol. That was your hard work that did it!
Don't be afraid to comment or ask questions even if you don't know much about LEDs. It'll be a great way to learn, and the people here are always willing to help share knowledge with others. I always ask when I see or read something new to me, and I've been able to learn a lot from the other growers here because of it :)

the newer growth looks nice, we can see a colour gradient on the leaves from dark to light green. had a look at the plant abuse chart and yeah, looks like iron. looks nice though, they look all moist and supple like leather. :goodjob:

And I'm looking at my PH chart, and my PH was pretty high for a while, which might have been the cause of this iron deficiency due to lockout. PH is currently at 6.8, which is a little above where Iron can be absorbed according to my chart. I'm not sure if anything above 6.5 = total lockout? Or if the absorption ability of the nutrient decreases above 6.5. Either way, that's next on the list of things to fix. Soil is still pretty wet, so I have my fan running on high to dry it out faster.

Antics, I believe that you ae on a great track and the new growth looks healthy, I am learning a bunch from your journal. I think the following post says it best:




Plus I want to thank stripse1garo, I just ordered from TopLed thanks to him/her. I would be glad to be as bad as a grower you are :rofl: Cheers

Thanks brother! I'm hoping this is a sign of things turning around for her, we'll know more in a couple days!

Alright man! Which light did you order?

Hey Antics, it looks like it's headed in the right direction, UP and GREEN. I would love to add some words of wisdom here and make it all better but the LED panel thingy is new to me as well. King John had mentioned the cal/mag to me and I think it is helping things are looking alot better in my Cabinet. Keep up the good work and all will be be right in the grow.

Thanks man, that's what I'm hoping for! I have quite a bit of lost time here to make up for. I'm probably about 2 weeks behind in strong growth, and by the time everything is fixed, it may end up being closer to 3 weeks behind. At least where I believe she should be in size/growth for her age.
A handful of people warned me about the calmag, but I have hard water here, so I was curious to see if there was enough calcium and magnesium in my water to compensate for the difference, but in my case there doesn't appear to be enough.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Some people suggest heaters and stuff but if it was me I'd attempt to get a high wattage incandescent bulb and placing it close to the pot, in lieu of a heat mat. It seems silly cos the light is useless for the plant but it kicks out plenty of heat and uses less electricity than a heater and would probably be cheaper to buy if you had neither heat mat nor heater
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Thanks brother! I'm hoping this is a sign of things turning around for her, we'll know more in a couple days!

Alright man! Which light did you order?

Im a cheap guy :) I ordered the Mars II LED Grow Light 400w from TopLed. I think of using it when the air gets a little warmer. March and on.
Or maybe on my next grow if I can figure out how to fit 4 plants in the grow room, then it will be 400w led plus 400w hps.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Some people suggest heaters and stuff but if it was me I'd attempt to get a high wattage incandescent bulb and placing it close to the pot, in lieu of a heat mat. It seems silly cos the light is useless for the plant but it kicks out plenty of heat and uses less electricity than a heater and would probably be cheaper to buy if you had neither heat mat nor heater

I'm going to see how the soil looks tomorrow, if it's not drying off fast enough I'll see what I can do to help it along. Although I also have the option to just keep the door closed, and the temp stays at 81F / 27.2C

I think I have only 1 Incandescent bulb left in my house lol. I've switched all the rest to CFLs to save a few bucks on electricity.
So if I used bulbs, I'd have to use CFLs for heat..

Im a cheap guy :) I ordered the Mars II LED Grow Light 400w from TopLed. I think of using it when the air gets a little warmer. March and on.
Or maybe on my next grow if I can figure out how to fit 4 plants in the grow room, then it will be 400w led plus 400w hps.

Which spectrum did you buy for the Mars II? And you're going to love that light man. I know you mentioned in your journal being unsure about LEDs because of the lower heat, and you're in winter now.. but the 5w Mars series does produce some heat, and might be enough? I'm not sure... But everyone just loves them that I've seen using them. And they have great results as well.

For my next light, I'm not sure what I'm getting, TopLED has a new model coming out soon, so I'm excited to see that one too, and they'll probably have some testers testing the light on some grows, so those will be good journals to subscribe to, to see the results of the new light.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Some people suggest heaters and stuff but if it was me I'd attempt to get a high wattage incandescent bulb and placing it close to the pot, in lieu of a heat mat. It seems silly cos the light is useless for the plant but it kicks out plenty of heat and uses less electricity than a heater and would probably be cheaper to buy if you had neither heat mat nor heater

I use heating mat's under each pot I have and at 14w the consume very little power. I am reluctant to post a link since I am still new to the forums and don't know if its ok or not but at 7$ free s&h I think they are great. They promote massive roots :)
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I'll keep those heating mats in mind, but would they be effective under a 5.5-6 gallon pot?

And here are some pictures showing where the stem seemed to grow into 2 tops almost...

2014-10-30_18-13-51_172.jpg

2014-10-30_18-14-40_693.jpg

2014-10-30_18-14-58_392.jpg


Other than the 2 lower nodes, all my other stem growth is really slow and immature. Some are only 1-3cm long. Looking at this, it looks to me almost like the plant kind of topped itself. The main top is the taller of the two, but the second one isn't far behind in height, and the stem thickness of both is VERY close, with the 2nd 'top' being just a little thinner as it goes up.

Soil is drying out faster now, I moved some of the loose soil on top and that seems to have helped a lot.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

the heat mats might not be so helpful underneath such large pots.

I've never used heat mats so i don't know much about them but if by some twist of fate, bendable ones exist, one could wrap them around the pot, at least partially, which would make a bigger difference than underneath, as the heat's journey to the centre would effectively be halved [versus trying to get to the top from the bottom], though in both cases, the wetter the pot, the more heat would be conducted and more quickly.

Such methods of warming the soil, though, would increase your chances of mould.
this is a side effect of this, as you'd effectively be creating humidity in the soil.
This could be countered somewhat by a layer of sand, diatomaceous earth or possibly even perlite. Something absorbant which could act as a protective layer against airborne spores and your fans could be blowing onto it, cooling and drying as it goes, cos the windchill factor and something like perlite would get along swimmingly.

Also, and i don't know how helpful this would be, but a folded bone dry towel would 'suck' moisture out of the bottom, I'd say up to a half an inch up the pot.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

For my next light, I'm not sure what I'm getting, TopLED has a new model coming out soon, so I'm excited to see that one too, and they'll probably have some testers testing the light on some grows, so those will be good journals to subscribe to, to see the results of the new light.
Ive got the mars II 1200, and I'm going to be keeping it for my veg tent, but this January Im upgrading to the Platinum LED brand.
They use less power, all models have the veg/bloom switch, they run cooler, better par ratings etc...
After spending hours upon hours comparing lights, journals, pictures I figured Platinum is the way to go for me.
Just look at Gov's grow with 8 ball kush under mars 700, then under the Platimum P300. when you compare the two grows at 3 1/2 weeks of veg the plant under the P300 is literally 4-5 times its topled counter part; And that is using 99w actual draw.
They're a bit more pricey, however the savings in power + increase in yield/quality show the clear winner.
Again let me state, Ill be keeping my mars 1200, its great for my veg needs where a little slower growth can be a god send =p but for money spent you can't dispute the allure of Platinum. (not sponsored or anything just a vet on a fixed income that needs the right info)
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I concur. The new growth looks like it's coming along, and it seems like you have diagnosed what else is happening so I'm looking forward to things going in a positive direction. Like you said it may result in a little longer veg time, but I'm sure you'll be just fine. I do thank you for your journal and your details because it's really helpful to a new person like me looking for knowledge and experiences on this site.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

when i say looking good . they are !! we knew going into this you were headed into uncharted waters .. and so far yea u gave had issues but all in all shes alive and your learning and teaching as u go !
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I'll keep those heating mats in mind, but would they be effective under a 5.5-6 gallon pot?

And here are some pictures showing where the stem seemed to grow into 2 tops almost...

2014-10-30_18-13-51_172.jpg

2014-10-30_18-14-40_693.jpg

2014-10-30_18-14-58_392.jpg


Other than the 2 lower nodes, all my other stem growth is really slow and immature. Some are only 1-3cm long. Looking at this, it looks to me almost like the plant kind of topped itself. The main top is the taller of the two, but the second one isn't far behind in height, and the stem thickness of both is VERY close, with the 2nd 'top' being just a little thinner as it goes up.

Soil is drying out faster now, I moved some of the loose soil on top and that seems to have helped a lot.

Can't really see anything... Anyway you could take a picture with normal light?

Those leaves look as if they are eating themselves at this point. Trying to make new growth so it can ultimately replace the fried leaves. Some strains are incredibly finicky especially with pH of soil. More Cal/Mag for sure. I'm sorry for asking I follow quite a few threads and get my info mixed up, but what nutrients are you using? Or just leaving it up to the soil?

Some strains are made for hydro. I have had quite a few strains that die in soil. I couldn't figure anything out about the strain, switched to coco... They did fine.

Edit: and possibly an oscillating fan going across the top of the soil? That might help out a little more.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

dude, I've been through the thread again, and the one and only thing I can suggest, is to re-pot into new soil, and this time don't alter the PH at all, leave it to do its own thing - just a suggestion, not a criticism, I just can't see anything else that it could be, bro :Namaste:
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Sorry I'm late to the party...subbed nonetheless, hope she's over the hump now :) It's too damn confusing when more than one symptom presents itself...you don't know if you're screwing it or fixing it, which is why we sat and did bugger all most of the time :) we have faith, Antics! Good luck, we'll be watching...

Ooh, and congratulations on your MOTM, well envious of all those cool goodies. Especially the jar :goodjob::bravo:
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

the heat mats might not be so helpful underneath such large pots.

I've never used heat mats so i don't know much about them but if by some twist of fate, bendable ones exist, one could wrap them around the pot, at least partially, which would make a bigger difference than underneath, as the heat's journey to the centre would effectively be halved [versus trying to get to the top from the bottom], though in both cases, the wetter the pot, the more heat would be conducted and more quickly.

Such methods of warming the soil, though, would increase your chances of mould.
this is a side effect of this, as you'd effectively be creating humidity in the soil.
This could be countered somewhat by a layer of sand, diatomaceous earth or possibly even perlite. Something absorbant which could act as a protective layer against airborne spores and your fans could be blowing onto it, cooling and drying as it goes, cos the windchill factor and something like perlite would get along swimmingly.

Also, and i don't know how helpful this would be, but a folded bone dry towel would 'suck' moisture out of the bottom, I'd say up to a half an inch up the pot.

The bottoms of my pots have the attached drain tray, and I've yet been unable to figure out how to remove them without breaking them off lol. But so far, the soil is drying pretty nicely. I'm turning the fan on high during the day, and on low at night, and it's working well so far. I think the problem was that I watered a little too much, instead of watering less, with a slightly stronger concentration of nutes.

Ive got the mars II 1200, and I'm going to be keeping it for my veg tent, but this January Im upgrading to the Platinum LED brand.
They use less power, all models have the veg/bloom switch, they run cooler, better par ratings etc...
After spending hours upon hours comparing lights, journals, pictures I figured Platinum is the way to go for me.
Just look at Gov's grow with 8 ball kush under mars 700, then under the Platimum P300. when you compare the two grows at 3 1/2 weeks of veg the plant under the P300 is literally 4-5 times its topled counter part; And that is using 99w actual draw.
They're a bit more pricey, however the savings in power + increase in yield/quality show the clear winner.
Again let me state, Ill be keeping my mars 1200, its great for my veg needs where a little slower growth can be a god send =p but for money spent you can't dispute the allure of Platinum. (not sponsored or anything just a vet on a fixed income that needs the right info)

The problem, is not everyone has almost $400 to drop on a comparable light. And whether or not TopLED is the best light out there is irrelevant now. It's the light that I could afford, and I'm going to ensure that it works for me.
:thumb:

I concur. The new growth looks like it's coming along, and it seems like you have diagnosed what else is happening so I'm looking forward to things going in a positive direction. Like you said it may result in a little longer veg time, but I'm sure you'll be just fine. I do thank you for your journal and your details because it's really helpful to a new person like me looking for knowledge and experiences on this site.

I'm glad I was able to help you out with my journal! It makes spending the time taking pictures and writing updates worth doing.

when i say looking good . they are !! we knew going into this you were headed into uncharted waters .. and so far yea u gave had issues but all in all shes alive and your learning and teaching as u go !

LOL thanks man. I'm still not happy with her yet, but all in due time my friend. She'll be a fucking monster! (I now have people to prove wrong, so I'm going to work 100 times harder on this)

Can't really see anything... Anyway you could take a picture with normal light?

Those leaves look as if they are eating themselves at this point. Trying to make new growth so it can ultimately replace the fried leaves. Some strains are incredibly finicky especially with pH of soil. More Cal/Mag for sure. I'm sorry for asking I follow quite a few threads and get my info mixed up, but what nutrients are you using? Or just leaving it up to the soil?

Some strains are made for hydro. I have had quite a few strains that die in soil. I couldn't figure anything out about the strain, switched to coco... They did fine.

Edit: and possibly an oscillating fan going across the top of the soil? That might help out a little more.

Did you see the pictures here: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience ?
I was just showing the spot where the stem split off with those pictures, which seems to be growing like 2 tops. I was trying to add a little bit of "oh hey, cool!" among all the updates with problems.

PH is currently 6.4 so it should be low enough to allow the plant to absorb the iron that it seems to be lacking, among other things.

No worries man, I forget shit all the time with all the topics I'm subb'ed to. But as for nutes I'm not allowed to say the name on the forum, all I can say is I am using a 3 part nute system, Grow, Micro, and Bloom. Mixed @ 10ml/gal at the the last feeding.

This strain was grown in hydro as well as soil, and grew fine in both, but did much better in hydro.

I have a small oscillating fan running in there 24/7. It's running on high during lights on, and low during lights off.

dude, I've been through the thread again, and the one and only thing I can suggest, is to re-pot into new soil, and this time don't alter the PH at all, leave it to do its own thing - just a suggestion, not a criticism, I just can't see anything else that it could be, bro :Namaste:

Yeah I'm giving it one last shot. I don't like just giving up and moving on, so I want to make sure I've tried everything before I move on. If I do decided to move on, I will be moving onto coco, instead of new soil.

Sorry I'm late to the party...subbed nonetheless, hope she's over the hump now :) It's too damn confusing when more than one symptom presents itself...you don't know if you're screwing it or fixing it, which is why we sat and did bugger all most of the time :) we have faith, Antics! Good luck, we'll be watching...

Ooh, and congratulations on your MOTM, well envious of all those cool goodies. Especially the jar :goodjob::bravo:

She's right in the middle of the hump, I think.... so you have great timing to see if I can pull this off or not. And yeah it's been a multitude of problems that I've had to deal with so far, so it's made things a little difficult for me, since I'm still learning in general, and specifically learning about how to grow with LEDs.

Thanks man! The prizes were seriously awesome, and not a day has gone by that I haven't used that rolling machine. And the nug jar has a special place on my desk right next to my monitor :thumb:
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

The problem, is not everyone has almost $400 to drop on a comparable light. And whether or not TopLED is the best light out there is irrelevant now. It's the light that I could afford, and I'm going to ensure that it works for me.
:thumb:

:
Im with you 100% Im a disabled vet on a fixed income, that is why i bought the mars II 1200 in the first place =p (and why i intend to continue using it in my veg tent once I switch)
but you said you didn't know which light you were going to go with in the future, so I thought I'd offer some of the info ive dug up.
All of that being what it is, Im currently saving up to buy the Platinum lights because after seeing the results.... they're worth waiting a little longer for.
Hope Gov doesn't mind me posting these pics comparing 3 1/2 weeks of veg for mars and 3 1/2 for platinum. Using the same medium, same cabinet, same strain. (8ball kush)
<-mars 700
Girls1_10_16_13.JPG

<-P300
8bkn2_10_7_14.JPG

8bk2_10_7_14.JPG


(not trying to hijack your thread or anything mate, just wanted to show the growth difference because the p300, is only using 99w)
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I have a small oscillating fan running in there 24/7. It's running on high during lights on, and low during lights off.

Is there a fan out there that does this by itself or are you manually changing the speed yourself? If its auto I would really like to know how this is done :)

Plus I have had a question for some time. In your first post you said that you clean out the old roots. Is there a science behind this? I usually let the coco dry and leave it for a month or so mixing it quite a bit before use and re use with the old roots dry and broken up.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Im with you 100% Im a disabled vet on a fixed income, that is why i bought the mars II 1200 in the first place =p (and why i intend to continue using it in my veg tent once I switch)
but you said you didn't know which light you were going to go with in the future, so I thought I'd offer some of the info ive dug up.
All of that being what it is, Im currently saving up to buy the Platinum lights because after seeing the results.... they're worth waiting a little longer for.
Hope Gov doesn't mind me posting these pics comparing 3 1/2 weeks of veg for mars and 3 1/2 for platinum. Using the same medium, same cabinet, same strain. (8ball kush)

(not trying to hijack your thread or anything mate, just wanted to show the growth difference because the p300, is only using 99w)

First thank you for your service :thumb:
I almost enlisted myself, but that's a long story, and an entirely different topic altogether..

By future, I meant at least a few years, there won't be any short term future purchases coming up.
But I totally understand that LEDs are not all the same, I think your arrows are mixed up though? Both are pointing to the left?

How's it going Antics ? Get it all sorted out bro back on track now I hope.

It's going... It's not dead, and it's not getting horribly worse, so that's a good start. I'll know more as the next few days go by, but it does look like the tiny branches I had are getting bigger. One looks almost 1-2cm longer than yesterday. I also did a FIM before all this stuff happened, so that also contributed to slowing her down a bit.

Is there a fan out there that does this by itself or are you manually changing the speed yourself? If its auto I would really like to know how this is done :)

Plus I have had a question for some time. In your first post you said that you clean out the old roots. Is there a science behind this? I usually let the coco dry and leave it for a month or so mixing it quite a bit before use and re use with the old roots dry and broken up.

There might be a fan like that out there, but I'm just changing the speed manually when I go check on things. If you wanted to set this up automatically, you could use two small fans, both on a timer, turn both to their selected speed, and set the timers how you want them. It works fine switching it manually for me though. I have no plans to go out of town, and I'm already checking on her every morning and every night anyways.

As for the roots, I let the soil dry out for a day or so, and remove the large root ball. I let the soil dry out another few days, stirring it around daily so it dries evenly. Once the soil reaches a dry enough consistency that it doesn't stick together, I sift it, which catches most of the rest of the old roots. There are some that get by the sifting process, but I've never had a problem with rot or anything, as the roots are dried out enough that they snap when you bend them, so the little bit that sticks around, I assume just slowly breaks down into the soil.

I think as long as they're given time to dry out completely, there shouldn't be a problem leaving them in.
 
re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Antics,
I am currently on my 4th grow with LED's, 2 Kessil h350 magenta and 2 Full Spectrum LED Spots for side lighting, in a 4x4x8 home made box, with average temps at 75 and humidity at 50 to 60 percent, with a space heater. My findings show that because of the of led's and the lack of heat produced, the plants perspiration is lower causing it to use less water making over watering easily accomplished. To remedy this issue, First I had to change my pots to fabric allowing a lot more air flow to the roots. Second, I had to cut back my watering schedule to once a week if I was lucky, but my nutrients were lacking because of this. Third, I had to bring in the heater to keep temps up and to dry out the air a bit (mini office space heater with a fan works GREAT!). Because the plant perspire less and use less water, the humidity in my box became an issue, the Heater and the fabric pots solved that problem and also caused the soil to dry out faster allowing me to get on a more regular 2 to 3 day feeding schedule. I know the heater and Fabric pots are added Cost ($75.00) but it has helped me regain a balanced environment and has also increased my yields because of the added nutrients.

Green & Peace
Chabby
 
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