Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

[frosown]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hmm, so i'm on my 3rd LED grow with TOPLED, and their lights have so far worked wonders for me. I currently own the 192x3, the 100x3, the mars 900w, and the small ufo. My mars is 7 inches from the top of my baby and she's lookin fine. Not as trichy as some of the lower nugs due to heat, but oh well that happens. I always kept my lights about 10-14 inches away from my girls, never any higher. Maybe your girl is just way too sensitive to high light, but out of the few i've done i've yet to experience it.
Don't feel bad about failure, i've battled thrips, twice, mag def that made her look so sad, had a plant fall over due to too much weight and snapped a big branch off, but my point is brother, just keep on keepin on. Don't ever give up because you failed, it's just a lesson on what not to do next time! Good luck bro!

 

[PearlThePixie]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I'm not convinced you do need to be heavy on the nutes with LEDs, I use CalMag in tiny amounts (a couple of drops in a litre of water, way less than a ML even) this seems to help the plant get what it needs from the soil, I realise mine will be very different from yours because my soil is loaded with amendments but would advise against going OTT on the nutes, I think she'll just burn if you over nute her.
Getting the light distance right is a 'biggy', I'm finding different strains prefer different heights (not fun with multiple strains!) I currently have two seedlings at the same distance from light and one is actually praying whilst the other is twisting herself to get away from it!
Look on the bright side, the more we cock up the more we learn, all these trials make us better growers and this is a form of high stress training for your plant. Be patient with her and she will reward you for it.

 

[devils letuce]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

looking good like every other time i stop by over here!!

sucks the pipe has not came yet . i know that was like the your second favorite prize out of the bunch .. cant wait till u get the canna butter fired up ..

 

[Stinkybud]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I'm not convinced you do need to be heavy on the nutes with LEDs, I use CalMag in tiny amounts (a couple of drops in a litre of water, way less than a ML even) this seems to help the plant get what it needs from the soil, I realise mine will be very different from yours because my soil is loaded with amendments but would advise against going OTT on the nutes, I think she'll just burn if you over nute her.
Getting the light distance right is a 'biggy', I'm finding different strains prefer different heights (not fun with multiple strains!) I currently have two seedlings at the same distance from light and one is actually praying whilst the other is twisting herself to get away from it!
Look on the bright side, the more we cock up the more we learn, all these trials make us better growers and this is a form of high stress training for your plant. Be patient with her and she will reward you for it.

I agree. I'm not an expert but I think that plant looks burnt and not by your light. I use the same LEDs and I feed my plants about 1/4th of the FF feeding schedule and always 5ml per gallon of calmag. I've had the lights as close to 10" from my plants and never had an issues. I would flush that with Distilled water and not touch it for awhile.

 

[Buster Cherry]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hopefully you get it sorted out and get them recovered from the issues and still pull a decent yield from them.

 

[Dusty Kiefers]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hey bud I have noticed I goota my e.c. low under leds I flower at 1.0 or 500 ppms max.

 

[theengineer]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I had an LED learning curve, too, and ended up doing this to a Jack Herer;

I also found that feeding and watering literally halved, from every other day, to every four days due to the heat drop from HPS.

the plant above recovered once I lifted the LED to a normal height. I run my P300 & P450 12 inches above the canopy with zero bleaching or burning.

all I can think of is that you're perhaps over feeding as you mentioned earlier in the journal that they fed more under LED.

bear in mind I am only going by my own experience, which is organic growing in soil

 

[Equanimity]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Ok, so we've established that, due to less heat, the pots are staying moist for longer. This makes me think of the following (and feel free to tear down or 'buffet table' any or all of this).


If the pots stay moist for longer, is there a possibility of any of the following things:

Mould
Bud Rot
Contained nutrients becoming stale
Oxygen deficiency in the growing medium

My other thought is that, if it takes longer for the water to dissipate, does that mean that the plant is absorbing supplied nutrients more slowly? Could this warrant an increase in nutrient supply or perhaps the same amounts but mixed with less water and then poured closer to the centre of the pot rather than at the edges?

We can safely assume that, with the reduction in heat, less water is being lost to evaporation, as such, is it also arguable that less nutrients are being lost in the same way? With this, one could theorise that if less is lost to the stratosphere, then more nutrients are available to the plant than similar doses given to plants under HPS or other hot lamps, which would mean one would have to reduce the dosages supplied to plants under LED.

This then obviously puts both thoughts at odds with each other.

There are lots of side by side comparisons online, a quick google search pulls hundreds of thousands of results but none of these can be regarded as conclusive due to the massive, massive varieties of products. Just as your Intelligent Gro LED is nothing like my cheap chinese model, a 600w Lumii HPS bulb is different to the same wattage of Sunblaster models.

It can be a real bastard finding information that can be applied to one's own grow, can't it lol

 

[stripse1garo]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hi mate. The only thing you should learn from this grow is that this cheap shitty chinese led panel is crap and there is no way to grow smthing ONLY with this and if u do, will be for 0.5 ounce. Have you thought that maybe is not too intense but too weak or even wrong spectrum? cause i am sure thats the case. i know it's hard for your ego to admit that you tossed 100$ for nothing, but do it and move on. Add your cfl lamps and keep the led at 20'', do what u know and what u did the previous time and you' ll be fine. if you want led, try something more expensive, mars II and above. Good luck

 

[Equanimity]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hi mate. The only thing you should learn from this grow is that this cheap shitty chinese led panel is crap and there is no way to grow smthing ONLY with this and if u do, will be for 0.5 ounce. Have you thought that maybe is not too intense but too weak or even wrong spectrum? cause i am sure thats the case. i know it's hard for your ego to admit that you tossed 100$ for nothing, but do it and move on. Add your cfl lamps and keep the led at 20'', do what u know and what u did the previous time and you' ll be fine. if you want led, try something more expensive, mars II and above. Good luck

And this is an example of someone that should talk less and read more.

The plant in question is under an expensive panel.

This is not my grow.

All my plants are fine and dandy.

I use HPS, CFL & the cheap chinese LED panel and so far, no real issues aside from one hermied plant (out of 12) and a few pH/nute related issues at the beginning.

I mentioned my panel as part of what I was saying as we're all trying to figure out what's happening with Antics' plant so that it can be corrected and learned from.

Seriously, you should have read the thread before that comment.

 

[skunnymonster]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Well said Equa, some people can't engage their brain before posting

 

[Antics]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Hmm, so i'm on my 3rd LED grow with TOPLED, and their lights have so far worked wonders for me. I currently own the 192x3, the 100x3, the mars 900w, and the small ufo. My mars is 7 inches from the top of my baby and she's lookin fine. Not as trichy as some of the lower nugs due to heat, but oh well that happens. I always kept my lights about 10-14 inches away from my girls, never any higher. Maybe your girl is just way too sensitive to high light, but out of the few i've done i've yet to experience it.
Don't feel bad about failure, i've battled thrips, twice, mag def that made her look so sad, had a plant fall over due to too much weight and snapped a big branch off, but my point is brother, just keep on keepin on. Don't ever give up because you failed, it's just a lesson on what not to do next time! Good luck bro!

I considered maybe this strain or pheno is sensitive also. There's always a surprise with these plants, but it's a labor of love.
I'd never give up if this grow failed, but it'd definite annoy the hell out of me for a while. But right now she's still chugging along, so I'm going to go with it, and do my best!

I'm not convinced you do need to be heavy on the nutes with LEDs, I use CalMag in tiny amounts (a couple of drops in a litre of water, way less than a ML even) this seems to help the plant get what it needs from the soil, I realise mine will be very different from yours because my soil is loaded with amendments but would advise against going OTT on the nutes, I think she'll just burn if you over nute her.
Getting the light distance right is a 'biggy', I'm finding different strains prefer different heights (not fun with multiple strains!) I currently have two seedlings at the same distance from light and one is actually praying whilst the other is twisting herself to get away from it!
Look on the bright side, the more we cock up the more we learn, all these trials make us better growers and this is a form of high stress training for your plant. Be patient with her and she will reward you for it.

I'm not nuting the hell out of her by any means, nutes are a little stronger than I'd normally feed a plant of this size, but the level is correct for a plant of this age. The only thing I added extra was the epsom in a stronger dose, and I foliar spray every night with a normal level of 1tsp/gal.

Right now I have a good attitude that she'll pull through, it's just extraaaaaa slow waiting to see signs of recovery lol.

looking good like every other time i stop by over here!!

sucks the pipe has not came yet . i know that was like the your second favorite prize out of the bunch .. cant wait till u get the canna butter fired up ..

Looking good? lol man I wish. They're in rough shape for me. My last grow was amazing compared to this. I feel like it's my first grow all over again! And yeah, I'm eagerly looking forward to the pipe! And definitely looking forward to using the Magical Butter Machine!

I agree. I'm not an expert but I think that plant looks burnt and not by your light. I use the same LEDs and I feed my plants about 1/4th of the FF feeding schedule and always 5ml per gallon of calmag. I've had the lights as close to 10" from my plants and never had an issues. I would flush that with Distilled water and not touch it for awhile.

I disagree on the burn, as I had these problems appearing before I increased nutes. As frosown said above they think it could be a sensitive strain, and I'm really starting to agree with him. But it might be an issue of sensitivity, combined with a deficiency too. I'm still a bit puzzled, but the new growth still looks good today, with no problems noted.

Hopefully you get it sorted out and get them recovered from the issues and still pull a decent yield from them.

I'm patient, and I have enough meds to last me a bit, so I'm going to keep working to help her recover. As long as everything goes well, I'm expecting the only thing I'll see is a longer than normal Veg time for the size she ends up as when I switch to flower.

Hey bud I have noticed I goota my e.c. low under leds I flower at 1.0 or 500 ppms max.

I don't have a TDS meter, so unfortunately I can't compare notes It's definitely on my list of items to pick up in the near future though!

I had an LED learning curve, too, and ended up doing this to a Jack Herer

I also found that feeding and watering literally halved, from every other day, to every four days due to the heat drop from HPS.

the plant above recovered once I lifted the LED to a normal height. I run my P300 & P450 12 inches above the canopy with zero bleaching or burning.

all I can think of is that you're perhaps over feeding as you mentioned earlier in the journal that they fed more under LED.

bear in mind I am only going by my own experience, which is organic growing in soil

Yeah I noticed the lower levels of heat require me to increase my circulation fan to help dry the soil faster in there. I'll get this sorted, I'm positive of that!

Ok, so we've established that, due to less heat, the pots are staying moist for longer. This makes me think of the following (and feel free to tear down or 'buffet table' any or all of this).


If the pots stay moist for longer, is there a possibility of any of the following things:

Mould
Bud Rot
Contained nutrients becoming stale
Oxygen deficiency in the growing medium

My other thought is that, if it takes longer for the water to dissipate, does that mean that the plant is absorbing supplied nutrients more slowly? Could this warrant an increase in nutrient supply or perhaps the same amounts but mixed with less water and then poured closer to the centre of the pot rather than at the edges?

We can safely assume that, with the reduction in heat, less water is being lost to evaporation, as such, is it also arguable that less nutrients are being lost in the same way? With this, one could theorise that if less is lost to the stratosphere, then more nutrients are available to the plant than similar doses given to plants under HPS or other hot lamps, which would mean one would have to reduce the dosages supplied to plants under LED.

This then obviously puts both thoughts at odds with each other.

There are lots of side by side comparisons online, a quick google search pulls hundreds of thousands of results but none of these can be regarded as conclusive due to the massive, massive varieties of products. Just as your Intelligent Gro LED is nothing like my cheap chinese model, a 600w Lumii HPS bulb is different to the same wattage of Sunblaster models.

It can be a real bastard finding information that can be applied to one's own grow, can't it lol

Man you brought up some good points. So far I have no mold, and no buds.. so no bud rot. The last two, stale nutes and lower oxygen are definite possibilities, at least as current contributing factors.

I think all the information, or at least enough info to help me figure this out exists... but I'm just not reading it right, or maybe it hasn't all clicked together for me yet..

Hi mate. The only thing you should learn from this grow is that this cheap shitty chinese led panel is crap and there is no way to grow smthing ONLY with this and if u do, will be for 0.5 ounce. Have you thought that maybe is not too intense but too weak or even wrong spectrum? cause i am sure thats the case. i know it's hard for your ego to admit that you tossed 100$ for nothing, but do it and move on. Add your cfl lamps and keep the led at 20'', do what u know and what u did the previous time and you' ll be fine. if you want led, try something more expensive, mars II and above. Good luck

So... you just signed up here, and instead of posting an introduction like most normal people, you use your first post to insult me, insult my choice of equipment, and insult a forum sponsor?

Then in your infinite wisdom, predict I'm only going to see 1/2 ounce?

And of course being the rocket scientist that you are, you already know the light is too weak? Based on what facts and statistics?

If you bothered to do your research before insulting my light, you'd see that it's a full spectrum panel. But let's just talk out of our ass instead...

My ego? lol I didn't toss $100 for nothing. Again, if you bothered to read, you'd see my light is at 30", not the 20" that you suggest. But why should I even bother to repeat everything on previous pages for someone that just comes out of nowhere to insult me, my light, and a forum sponsor?

I really hope when this grow is completed, with my "cheap shitty chinese led panel" and you see my yield, you come back here with an apology for me, and an apology for TopLED.

 

[Equanimity]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I considered maybe this strain or pheno is sensitive also. There's always a surprise with these plants, but it's a labor of love.
I'd never give up if this grow failed, but it'd definite annoy the hell out of me for a while. But right now she's still chugging along, so I'm going to go with it, and do my best!



I'm not nuting the hell out of her by any means, nutes are a little stronger than I'd normally feed a plant of this size, but the level is correct for a plant of this age. The only thing I added extra was the epsom in a stronger dose, and I foliar spray every night with a normal level of 1tsp/gal.

Right now I have a good attitude that she'll pull through, it's just extraaaaaa slow waiting to see signs of recovery lol.



Looking good? lol man I wish. They're in rough shape for me. My last grow was amazing compared to this. I feel like it's my first grow all over again! And yeah, I'm eagerly looking forward to the pipe! And definitely looking forward to using the Magical Butter Machine!



I disagree on the burn, as I had these problems appearing before I increased nutes. As frosown said above they think it could be a sensitive strain, and I'm really starting to agree with him. But it might be an issue of sensitivity, combined with a deficiency too. I'm still a bit puzzled, but the new growth still looks good today, with no problems noted.



I'm patient, and I have enough meds to last me a bit, so I'm going to keep working to help her recover. As long as everything goes well, I'm expecting the only thing I'll see is a longer than normal Veg time for the size she ends up as when I switch to flower.



I don't have a TDS meter, so unfortunately I can't compare notes It's definitely on my list of items to pick up in the near future though!



Yeah I noticed the lower levels of heat require me to increase my circulation fan to help dry the soil faster in there. I'll get this sorted, I'm positive of that!



Man you brought up some good points. So far I have no mold, and no buds.. so no bud rot. The last two, stale nutes and lower oxygen are definite possibilities, at least as current contributing factors.

I think all the information, or at least enough info to help me figure this out exists... but I'm just not reading it right, or maybe it hasn't all clicked together for me yet..




So... you just signed up here, and instead of posting an introduction like most normal people, you use your first post to insult me, insult my choice of equipment, and insult a forum sponsor?

Then in your infinite wisdom, predict I'm only going to see 1/2 ounce?

And of course being the rocket scientist that you are, you already know the light is too weak? Based on what facts and statistics?

If you bothered to do your research before insulting my light, you'd see that it's a full spectrum panel. But let's just talk out of our ass instead...

My ego? lol I didn't toss $100 for nothing. Again, if you bothered to read, you'd see my light is at 30", not the 20" that you suggest. But why should I even bother to repeat everything on previous pages for someone that just comes out of nowhere to insult me, my light, and a forum sponsor?

I really hope when this grow is completed, with my "cheap shitty chinese led panel" and you see my yield, you come back here with an apology for me, and an apology for TopLED.

I think he got confused with who's grow it is and who owns the "cheap shitty chinese panel" and that he wasn't actually insulting TopLed (i did say intelligent gro earlier by mistake, as well (I'm following loads of LED grows, it gets crowded in my brain sometimes)).

He's just read the most recent reply to the thread and ran with it, so maybe a career with Fox News or the UK newspaper The Daily Mail is in his future. Cash for misinformation yay lol

 

[Antics]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

I think he got confused with who's grow it is and who owns the "cheap shitty chinese panel" and that he wasn't actually insulting TopLed (i did say intelligent gro earlier by mistake, as well (I'm following loads of LED grows, it gets crowded in my brain sometimes)).

He's just read the most recent reply to the thread and ran with it, so maybe a career with Fox News or the UK newspaper The Daily Mail is in his future. Cash for misinformation yay lol

Regardless whose grow it is, and what LED panel is being discussed, that's not cool coming in and insulting people out of the gate like that.

And +Reps to everyone who has contributed in helping me get this problem sorted. I really do appreciate you all taking the time to try to figure this problem out with me!

 

[Equanimity]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Regardless whose grow it is, and what LED panel is being discussed, that's not cool coming in and insulting people out of the gate like that.

And +Reps to everyone who has contributed in helping me get this problem sorted. I really do appreciate you all taking the time to try to figure this problem out with me!

The answer to this, ultimately, is helpful to all of us.
This plant can be really easy to grow but she is a fickle mistress and sometimes throws us challenges, which can be overcome if we all work together and then we can use that knowledge to fix or avoid the problem in the future.

If your plant lives, we all win.

 

[stripse1garo]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

i don't think that i insulted you and didn't have such purposes. Eveybody make bad choices like you at this led. I didn't know you are too sensitive, kid. i just said my opinion. i have seen this panel in action and know it's shit and it's good only as supplemental light. Don't take it personal. I know you can do much better with the cfls. Equanimity, i was not replying to you but to Antics effort.

I don't care to introduce myself because i just signed in to tell you my opinion from my experience with this panel, because i see you are losing your time. I had never nute def, the growth was as it should green and nice, all in check but the plant was growing slow. Again, don't take it personal. i dont know you. Some people are making fun of you and you don't even realize it.. Are you a rocket scientist to know that this led is good and strong and how are you so sure you can have good yields? Again, my opinion. I don't give a shit if this light is from forum sponsor.

 

[Antics]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Ok moving right along into an update for today.

Since people are 'allegedly' making fun of me, we're going to turn this into a seriously pissed off, and vengeful Antics grow. With my "cheap shitty chinese led panel" as the only light source.

I can accept my mistakes and failures. It's part of life, and part of learning. But when someone TELLS ME that I'm going to fail? No.. That doesn't fly with me.

Here is a sample of what I see with the LED on, and no flash used. Looking at this growth, you see some areas that appear lighter, asnd this IS in fact true. It appears to resemble the beginnings of an iron deficiency, as the yellowing starts at the petiole, and moves forward to the tip of the leaflets.

Now here is the same area, taken with flash. It becomes much more apparent, but looks less severe. At least to me... This area is one of my lower nodes, that is growing pretty well, and is being LST'd with a paperclip currently.

Now this is the opposite side of the previous picture, lower node, and being LST'd also with a paperclip. The growth at this node is currently good, but a little slow.

Now my main stem did some freaky shit. The way it grew, it appeared to be a main top, and just a stem growing out of a node. However within a couple days, the growth of this stem is almost as thick as the main stem, thicker than my two best growing lower nodes, and is almost as tall as the main top. I will be topping this in the future also, and here is a closeup of the new growth there:

And this is a closeup of the new growth on the main top, which I actually tried a FIM a few days back, and here is where it is today:

I just realized I didn't get a picture of the stem and stuff.. I'll get that later this evening to share with you all

 

[GreenKitty]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

What is going on here? People relax, peace and love and beautiful plants to all! The equipment is irrelevant, everything is irrelevant if we all learn from our mistakes and help each other! Antics is an amazing member of this forum and person! This journal has been very good for me to read because I'm learning a ton! Don't insult anyone! We all have things that we know or don't know!

I had no knowledge of anything and my girl is now on 9th week, she's flowering like a champ thanks to Antics. I haven't posted here more because I don't know anything about LED growing. This has been a tough experience, but also a learning experience for Antics, it sucks that your plan is having so many issues, but in the end what we need is to help each other, learn from each other and grow some beautiful plants! Also don't feed trolls or bad mannered people. Just ignore them and let them go into the unknown where they can reflect about the uselessness of their words and actions and then become wiser.

 

[Equanimity]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

the newer growth looks nice, we can see a colour gradient on the leaves from dark to light green. had a look at the plant abuse chart and yeah, looks like iron. looks nice though, they look all moist and supple like leather.

 

[BlinKey]

re: Antics Perpetual Learning Experience

Antics, I believe that you ae on a great track and the new growth looks healthy, I am learning a bunch from your journal. I think the following post says it best:

The answer to this, ultimately, is helpful to all of us.
This plant can be really easy to grow but she is a fickle mistress and sometimes throws us challenges, which can be overcome if we all work together and then we can use that knowledge to fix or avoid the problem in the future.

If your plant lives, we all win.

Plus I want to thank stripse1garo, I just ordered from TopLed thanks to him/her. I would be glad to be as bad as a grower you are Cheers