It's actually, Thank you Mama....but I'll take any thanks I can get!
Ooops. Okay Mama!
Yankeetoker's 2nd Grow Attempt - 2016 - All Advice Welcome!
Ooops. Okay Mama!
It's actually, Thank you Mama....but I'll take any thanks I can get!
It's usually Canna saying this ... so I LOL'd a bit.
Keep the faith, Yankeetoker. You're doing fine, there's plenty of people here to help.
Yankee, a few pages back you mentioned you were getting a pH pen. Have you checked the pH of your water with it yet? Also, if you have some of the lobster compost left could you make a small cup of compost and water slurry, let it sit for 24 hours, and get a pH reading on it?
The plants don't look even a little thirsty yet. Let 'em ride without water. Post a pic tomorrow evening if you can.
DeanB
New Member
Hi yankee, Seems like it's taking a while for them to recover. Do you have a fan circulating air? What does your grow room set up look like, pictures? Are the fabric pots sitting in water? I like to cut slits in the solo cups i use to help with air getting to the mix. I believe your problem is not enough oxygen getting to the root zone. Did you wet your mix before planting anything into it? It helps to do that. It actually says in the planting instructions on the bag of the Pro~mix (Canadian Sphagnum peat moss 80-90% by volume) I use. Anyways maybe you'll get more people to chime in.
- Thread starter
- #85
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Yankee, a few pages back you mentioned you were getting a pH pen. Have you checked the pH of your water with it yet? Also, if you have some of the lobster compost left could you make a small cup of compost and water slurry, let it sit for 24 hours, and get a pH reading on it?
The plants don't look even a little thirsty yet. Let 'em ride without water. Post a pic tomorrow evening if you can.
Mixing calibration solutions this evening. Will prepare a slurry to test for tomorrow evening. I'll post a pic tomorrow evening when I test the slurry. Will chill on the watering. Thanks PeeJay
- Thread starter
- #86
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Hi yankee, Seems like it's taking a while for them to recover. Do you have a fan circulating air? What does your grow room set up look like, pictures? Are the fabric pots sitting in water? I like to cut slits in the solo cups i use to help with air getting to the mix. I believe your problem is not enough oxygen getting to the root zone. Did you wet your mix before planting anything into it? It helps to do that. It actually says in the planting instructions on the bag of the Pro~mix (Canadian Sphagnum peat moss 80-90% by volume) I use. Anyways maybe you'll get more people to chime in.
I have them in a grow box 35x24x19. I do have a 4 inch personal fan for circulation and a pc fan exhaust. The pots are not sitting in water, plants are being watered every 5-6 days. My solo cup is not slit all the way down the side, but has 4 slits on the bottom/sides of the cup.
I did not wet my mix before planting which was an issue....which led to me having to soak the pots from the bottom up to introduce water while also top watering. After doing this, the pots seem to be retaining moisture for about 5-6 days. The plant in the solo cup, I did wet before introducing the seedling, and is growing better than the two in pots.
Thanks!
I've been away for a couple of days with only a tablet and limited opportunities to post. This is the main thing I notice from the pictures You and Rado are experiencing very similar problems, Yankee. I can put pictures together in one big post but there aren't huge page gaps to navigate if you just go back and compare notes. Very slow vegetative growth and green growth way on the yellow side of the green spectrum...
You both know that you should see plants that look like this at 15 days if things are clicking.
One thing that both grows have in common is the lobster compost product. pH wise, right out of the tap (if I'm reading right) things are not lower than 6.0 or higher than 8.0. I consider that the "somewhat acceptable" zone. In soil that range pH becomes a negligible issue. I'm not saying that tweaking it may not help you achieve peak performance. I'm just saying it is not such a big thing that it would account for the anemic growth rates. My unadjusted water is usually 7.9 - 8.0 when tested with a very expensive laboratory grade meter I have access to if I bring a little bottle of water to where it is. I don't mess with adjusting it when I water my plants.
Yankee is lighting her space with big arse cfls. Rado has good lighting. Both of you guys have a climate that wouldn't be causing the issues you're having.
If you both follow the same watering protocol then watering can be eliminated as the problem.
You're both using a lot of the same amendment in a peat base, that we're sure of, and the plants are both experiencing the same issues.
You both know that you should see plants that look like this at 15 days if things are clicking.
One thing that both grows have in common is the lobster compost product. pH wise, right out of the tap (if I'm reading right) things are not lower than 6.0 or higher than 8.0. I consider that the "somewhat acceptable" zone. In soil that range pH becomes a negligible issue. I'm not saying that tweaking it may not help you achieve peak performance. I'm just saying it is not such a big thing that it would account for the anemic growth rates. My unadjusted water is usually 7.9 - 8.0 when tested with a very expensive laboratory grade meter I have access to if I bring a little bottle of water to where it is. I don't mess with adjusting it when I water my plants.
Yankee is lighting her space with big arse cfls. Rado has good lighting. Both of you guys have a climate that wouldn't be causing the issues you're having.
If you both follow the same watering protocol then watering can be eliminated as the problem.
You're both using a lot of the same amendment in a peat base, that we're sure of, and the plants are both experiencing the same issues.
I've been away for a couple of days with only a tablet and limited opportunities to post. This is the main thing I notice from the pictures You and Rado are experiencing very similar problems, Yankee. I can put pictures together in one big post but there aren't huge page gaps to navigate if you just go back and compare notes. Very slow vegetative growth and green growth way on the yellow side of the green spectrum...
You both know that you should see plants that look like this at 15 days if things are clicking.
One thing that both grows have in common is the lobster compost product. pH wise, right out of the tap (if I'm reading right) things are not lower than 6.0 or higher than 8.0. I consider that the "somewhat acceptable" zone. In soil that range pH becomes a negligible issue. I'm not saying that tweaking it may not help you achieve peak performance. I'm just saying it is not such a big thing that it would account for the anemic growth rates. My unadjusted water is usually 7.9 - 8.0 when tested with a very expensive laboratory grade meter I have access to if I bring a little bottle of water to where it is. I don't mess with adjusting it when I water my plants.
Yankee is lighting her space with big arse cfls. Rado has good lighting. Both of you guys have a climate that wouldn't be causing the issues you're having.
If you both follow the same watering protocol then watering can be eliminated as the problem.
You're both using a lot of the same amendment in a peat base, that we're sure of, and the plants are both experiencing the same issues.
I agree that we both experience similar problems. For me this problem where it take 30-50 days to get what you describe as "15 days" worth of growth is MUCH BETTER than my previous problem where it took 120-150 days to get 15 days worth of growth.
Similar soil is the basis for my 'hang in there posts.' I truly look forward to the day when YankeeToker gets superior results, but I also hold out hope that these plants will take off after their slow start.
- Thread starter
- #89
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
After switching to the 200 watt CFL, I actually saw a wee bit of vertical growth from both plants...Both plants were reaching for the light, so I guess that is a plus as well.
I just can't understand how/why they are growing so slowly. Will test the pH of compost slurry tonight....
- Thread starter
- #90
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Below is the compost "slurry" that I prepared last night and the pH reading from that solution. I tested the pH three times and came up with readings of 7.62, 7.62, and 7.63.
Below are the three girls I have growing at this time....I just gave em names last night...I was a little hesitant to do so after my last failed attempt.....but I named em anyway
"Hope" because she may be my last one for this grow attempt.....broke soil 2/2 (Day 20)
"Lexi"....no particular reason.....broke soil 1/5 (Day 48)
"Bernie"..due to the burns
......broke soil 1/6 (Day 47)
I also tested the tap water (has been out for over 24 hours an aerated) that I used to create the "slurry" and got readings of 7.74, 7.76, and 7.76
Hope this helps you guys out, because I got nothing...lol
Pots about the same weight of dry pots with soil, but plants look ok besides pale green color. Today is 6 days since last watering.
Below are the three girls I have growing at this time....I just gave em names last night...I was a little hesitant to do so after my last failed attempt.....but I named em anyway
"Hope" because she may be my last one for this grow attempt.....broke soil 2/2 (Day 20)
"Lexi"....no particular reason.....broke soil 1/5 (Day 48)
"Bernie"..due to the burns
......broke soil 1/6 (Day 47)
I also tested the tap water (has been out for over 24 hours an aerated) that I used to create the "slurry" and got readings of 7.74, 7.76, and 7.76
Hope this helps you guys out, because I got nothing...lol
Pots about the same weight of dry pots with soil, but plants look ok besides pale green color. Today is 6 days since last watering.
Hi Yankee. The soil acidity is too high, and it looks like they could use more Oxygen at the roots. If they are light to pick up, and the soil is almost dried out completely, I would water them with pH adjusted water (between 6.1 and 6.3). If you have Cal/Mag, I'd add that to your mix at 25-50% of directed strength as well (do this first, before measuring).
To correct the issues, you want to water them a bit differently than is the norm. You want them to dry out quickly, so that you can bring down the pH with more frequent pH'd waterings, and they can breath more often. Think of dry soil, as the plant's roots turn to breathe. Water with 1/3 the volume of your pot - so everything gets wet, but doesn't get sopping wet. You should get run off from the bottom of your pot 10-20% of the initial amount.
They should green up and start growing after a cycle to two of this.
To correct the issues, you want to water them a bit differently than is the norm. You want them to dry out quickly, so that you can bring down the pH with more frequent pH'd waterings, and they can breath more often. Think of dry soil, as the plant's roots turn to breathe. Water with 1/3 the volume of your pot - so everything gets wet, but doesn't get sopping wet. You should get run off from the bottom of your pot 10-20% of the initial amount.
They should green up and start growing after a cycle to two of this.
Below is the compost "slurry" that I prepared last night and the pH reading from that solution. I tested the pH three times and came up with readings of 7.62, 7.62, and 7.63.
Below are the three girls I have growing at this time....I just gave em names last night...I was a little hesitant to do so after my last failed attempt.....but I named em anyway
"Hope" because she may be my last one for this grow attempt.....broke soil 2/2 (Day 20)
"Lexi"....no particular reason.....broke soil 1/5 (Day 48)
"Bernie"..due to the burns
I also tested the tap water (has been out for over 24 hours an aerated) that I used to create the "slurry" and got readings of 7.74, 7.76, and 7.76
Hope this helps you guys out, because I got nothing...lol
Pots about the same weight of dry pots with soil, but plants look ok besides pale green color. Today is 6 days since last watering.
Ok. Now we have some good evidence to go by. Mr. Staker made a typo. Your soil and water are too alkaline, not too acidic. Alkaline is above 7.0. Acid is below 7.0.
The slurry was made with unadjusted water, right? That lobster compost is not an acidic amendment. In combination with the 7.7 pH water it's a double whammy.
The Yum Yum I use as a core soil amendment has a pH of 6.2. I water with water that pH's around 8.0 with no problems.
The high pH of the water and soil are leading to a classic case of chlorosis (that lime green color.) The plant can not take iron out of the soil. While iron isn't part of the structure of chlorophyll, it is required to catalyze the chain of chemical reactions in chlorophyll synthesis. Your plants are unable to make chlorophyll. Without chlorophyll they can't produce the carbohydrates needed for energy. Waterlogged soil also hinders iron uptake.
Mr. Staker has it all correct except the typo where he said your soil was too acidic. He didn't mean to say that. He meant to say it was to alkaline.
As an alternative to the watering solution he mentioned I would continue to let the soil dry out until you see actual signs of wilting from lack of water. Then I would do a bottom soaking watering in a large tub of pH 6.2 water. Let the plants sit in the tub for around 15-20 minutes. The water should come about 1/2 way up the side of the pots. While they're in the tub water more from the top. Don't be shy. Use lots of pH adjusted water from the top. Then, pull the plants out and set them on something so they can drain well. A milk crate works well.
It isn't necessary to drain the pots so the water falls back into the tub but it cuts down on mess. Doing it this way will have a greater impact on lowering the pH in the growing medium than the more gradual method Mr. Staker has suggested. The medium is not prone to getting waterlogged because it drains well. As we've let the soil go dry there has been no great change leading me to believe that waterlogged soil is a minor player in the chlorosis. By soaking the pots in a large volume of pH adjusted water the simple chemical process of diffusion will have a larger and more immediate effect on the overall pH of the growing medium.
If I was building a cannabis friendly soil with the lobster compost as a core amendment I'd think about pulling down the pH with an acidic amendment. Organic cottonseed meal would be a good choice ~ 1 cup per gallon.
Is this the 7 parts peat moss 1 part lobster compost mix?
Isn't Sphagnum peat moss supposed to run about 4.5 pH?
Thanks for the correction PJ! I did indeed mean alkaline, rather than acidic. I was also looking more at the solo cup, and there doesn't appear to be much structure or drainage, so I'm guessing there's some soil denitrification, in addition to the pH related deficiencies - hence the advice to top water quickly. The larger fabric pots look like they were amended with additional perlite, so those could better take a good flushing. I like your bottom watering method better overall.
YankeeToker, you'll get them through this, and on their way. Once you get the ingredients down, it's easier to focus on the methods.
- Thread starter
- #95
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
I was also looking more at the solo cup, and there doesn't appear to be much structure or drainage, so I'm guessing there's some soil denitrification, in addition to the pH related deficiencies - hence the advice to top water quickly. The larger fabric pots look like they were amended with additional perlite, so those could better take a good flushing. I like your bottom watering method better overall.
YankeeToker, you'll get them through this, and on their way. Once you get the ingredients down, it's easier to focus on the methods.
I caught the pH thing, too...science was my favorite subject in school! I sat out 4 gallons of tap water tonight and will water tomorrow evening after adjusting pH.
The soil in the solo cup was the original "hot" soil. I had planted the seed before making this discovery, so I just left it and added some of the "new" soil to top it off. Being that the seedling is 21 days old, could I just transplant it at this point or wait another week or so?
Thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge and encouraging words. I'm taking lots of notes and feel that I am getting closer to understanding how to grow.
Much love to all of you!
- Thread starter
- #96
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
PeeJay, you' re the best! Thanks for all the info...this site and you guys rock. So much knowledge in one place...again much thanks to all.
Peejay, or others. Shoot me down if this doesn't seem to be a good idea.
If it were me, I would carefully transplant the one in the cup. Putting the new soil on top isn't really helping the little one because the roots are still in the "hot" soil.
I'm learning a ton of information here as well, I tried to kill a brand new sprout by accidentally using my final pot soil. Way too hot for it, it has been transplanted and is recovering.
So, I'm interested in what you suggest too.
If it were me, I would carefully transplant the one in the cup. Putting the new soil on top isn't really helping the little one because the roots are still in the "hot" soil.
I'm learning a ton of information here as well, I tried to kill a brand new sprout by accidentally using my final pot soil. Way too hot for it, it has been transplanted and is recovering.
So, I'm interested in what you suggest too.
YankeeToker,
Thought you might like some humor during this. I posted this to my journal a couple days ago:
Thought you might like some humor during this. I posted this to my journal a couple days ago:
Random thought....in the age of botox and Plumping injections for people, wouldn't it be nice if we had "Chlorophyll injections" for sick plants?
"Got the yellows? Looking a little wilty? Come to our office for a free demonstration of "Be Green". Revolutionary scientific breakthrough and Lab tested! Guaranteed to give you a healthy, plump, and green glowing structure in less than ten minutes!"
Yes. Rado. Sometimes even lower. pH is complicated. Peat right out of the bag is acidic due to the presence of humic acid and tannins which are diprotic or triprotic phenols. They have little buffering capacity - they don't resist pH change. Wash peat in water once and the pH rockets skywards into the 6's. The same happens if mineralized amendments are added to it.
Say you wanted to plant a rhododendron (they like a pH around 5) and you had alkaline soil (pH 7.5 - 8.0.) "Ok," you think, "I'll dig a big hole and fill it with peat and plant the rhody in that."
A couple of weeks later you send a sample of the dirt off to get tested because the rhody looks like crap. The results come back and the pH is close to the pH of the soil that surrounds the hole...
I'm thinking you'll need more than 4 gallons of water to do it right. The more the merrier. If you need more water don't worry about letting it sit out, just pH adjust it. You can add a couple of pinches of dirt to the water or a tiny bit of sugar (molasses, honey, table sugar) to the new water and it'll take care of most of the chlorine/chloramine in it in about an hour.