Actually, the one that was linked here is 2:1
Xlr8's "Flo N Gro" Hydro Multiple Strains 2011
- Thread starter Xlr8
- Start date
Actually, the one that was linked here is 2:1
I am not a numbers guy, sorry. Just want people to know that ro is not always needed for most growers and with my water its questionable whether its a big improvement or not. After I do a mix with aged tap an rodi my water is around 50 to 100ppm. I guess I'm lucky with my hard water compared to some.
I agree 420%, and your point that a lot of water is wasted with R/O is a valid one. I would never recommend anyone use tap, simply because I could never predict the quality of their tap water. But, I've been using tap water exclusively for all of my grows, even in the Waterfarms, without issue so far.
I think there are two "camps" of R/O users. Those that really can't use tap because of poor water quality; and, those that simply want the highest level of control of what goes into their nutes and at what levels.
- Thread starter
- #964
I'm in the same boat that you were X.
Filling up four 5 Gal jugs is not really practical and also seems sketchy. Last time I went the cashier asked why I came back for more water 2 weeks later lol!
I would have purchased an RO system if it didn't look so complicated to set-up but it seems it's just a simple plug in here and there under the sink?
Your journals provide so many bonuses X. All I'm seeing is great plants, great lessons and great moods.
First off, thank you Missbud! You've been such a great addition to the community here, and I'm really glad to have you following along.
I can't speak for other RO Systems, but the one I have is really simple to use. It just connects to a faucet like a hose would, and then there are 2 smaller separate lines: One that just lays in the sink and drains the waste-water, and one that goes to whatever you want to use as a reservoir. If you have the float valve, the connection is as just a quick connect, which requires no tools. Hard to explain, but couldn't be simpler. The most difficult part, and this wasn't at all difficult mind you, was to drill a hole in the Rubbermaid trash bin I use as a reservoir. The float valve (see the picture that Jandre2k3 posted above - that's the one) just is hand threaded onto the reservoir through a small hole.
To start using it, just screw it on to the faucet, dangle the black 1/4" line into the sink, and plug the blue 1/4" line into the reservoir then turn on the faucet. It literally takes about 30 seconds to set up, the float valve will stop the reservoir from overfilling. It's about 10 lbs, and something like 16" tall, 14" wide. I just set it next to my utility sink in the laundry room. I love it!
If you can attach a hose to your sink, and drill a hole into a plastic bin (3/8" I believe) you can use an RO system like the one I have and make nearly 0ppm water (My PPM meter reads it as 0ppm, the next step up is 10ppm).
- Thread starter
- #965
Great points and ideas, Mr. Smith. I like the idea of mixing RO water with tap water that's aged 24 hours. You are so correct, that would make PH stability much better. Though, once I start adding nutrients and supplements to the RO it starts holding it's PH pretty well for me typically. I think with lower nutrient levels in veg, it would be nice having that added stability by using aged tap mixed in like that.
I agree, too, that a lot of people don't need RO water. I can't remember the exact number, but my tap PPM's were just under 300 the last time I checked them. I made the call to get the RO system just to avoid the hassle of dealing with figuring out how to work with the high mineral content of my water. I think it would be a bitch with larger reservoirs, unless you were able to get a pretty high GPD rating, and you had the water pressure to drive it. Fortunately for me, I'm pretty compact and I'm only making 25-30 gallons per week. That makes it pretty simple - I can make that much overnight, and then I've got a clean slate to work with as far as my nutrient solution.
If I had better water, I'd probably have tried to work without it, but I've really gotten a rhythm to using it now and always having a back up reservoir filled for the next change, flush, etc. It would be tough for me to let it go now!
- Thread starter
- #966
My tap water is 240 average, with some seasonal variation. Annual water report is comprehensive. They try to clorinate enough to assure sterility to each of many taps, through old pipes. I like that. I don't want any micro-fauna & flora in my coco, though what does survive or thrive does no harm. Daily deluge with some run-through maintains mostly hydroponic conditions, and relieves me of pH concerns. Fresh tap & BP two-part is always in a good range, and shows no reason to suspect any mineral uptake problems = happy, lush green medicine weed.
pH is a ratio of ions, which are dissolved solids which measure on a ppm (conductance) meter. Good RO or rain water has no dissolved solids, therefore has no pH. Whatever your pH meter says is bogus in pure water.
Worldwide, water is hardened by calcium and magnesium in a similar ratio which is conveniently compatable with most plant's needs - including cannabis.
I may get & use an RO filter one day, though I'd rather catch rainwater to a cistern. Someday
There may be 5 billion people living who have reason to be jealous of my city's tap water.
They would grow whatever with it straight, as I do.
Good points, Propa. If you are fortunate enough to have good water, and your plants seem to like it, no need to complicate things. I was on the fence about using my tap without filtering it, but felt like I was able to remove a potential headache before it happened by getting the RO system. I'm a bit of a control freak, too, and I like knowing everything that's put into the water, so to speak.
You are so right on about the PH of RO water. I hear people talking all the time about PH balancing their RO water before adding nutrients, and I can't figure out how they do that, practically speaking! The PH is going to be all over the place when you go to measure it, as you said - there are no dissolved solids to stabilize it sufficiently. I remember trying to PH adjust distilled water the first time I tried to grow hydro and I could never get a stable reading, yet, everyone talked in the "forums" about using PH balanced RO water... Now, once you start adding to that RO water things like nutrients, Cal/Mag supplement, Silica... you have a way to stabilize the PH.
Not to get off tangent too much, but on the subject of Silica - great supplement, and can be used to help adjust PH of the nutrient mix up at the same time. For example, earlier in the grow I would mix the BPN nutrients up, and the would have an initial PH of about 5.0 - 5.2. Once I added Silica, which strengthens stems and improves heat tolerance (amongst other things) my solution would PH at 5.6-5.8. Win win! In that sense, the Silica has been a great compliment to the BPN 3-part nutes, which seem to want to be slightly more acidic than what I'm used to without it.
A rainwater cistern would be great!
- Thread starter
- #967
- Thread starter
- #968
Ouch! And I thought MY water was bad. Yup, if it's that bad, the jugs of water from the store get pretty old after a while.... I did try using my tap and ran into issues right away. Just didn't want to mess with it long term.
- Thread starter
- #969
I have to brag a little bit....my well water only registers at 10 ppm coming from my tap. I can fill up a quart of it and store it in my shop for a few months and nothing will precipitate out of it. After a few months, it still tastes the same!
My well is only 90 feet deep and nothing but very coarse sand on top of blue shale at about 100 feet. the water sand starts at 35 feet.....
Nice - I'm thoroughly jealous! That sounds like some pretty fantastic water. You should bottle and sell that stuff. No need for an RO system with that water!
- Thread starter
- #970
I've found that mine seems to waste a bit more than advertised, though nothing alarming. I have a lower water pressure than most, and I'm guessing that explains some of it. A steady trickle from the waste-water line equates to a steady drip from the filtered water line. But, we're not even in the same league as running a sprinkler for 15 minutes to water the lawn - if that makes sense - so I'm not sweating the waste too much, personally. I do wish it wasted less, though.
Just wanted to be un-biased on this - can be a big deal to/for some people, and I find the company's claimed waste a bit optimistic, but I haven't measured it for myself either, so who knows!
- Thread starter
- #971
Sounds like you do have decent water to work with, and I really like your idea of mixing the tap and RO. I agree, most people should be fine with tap, and most nutrients seem to assume that tap will be used - as they often are a bit short in the Cal/Mag department when using RO water from what I can tell and have experienced.
I'm sure tap works fine for most people. If my water were a little better I would try to work with it. I tried and had problems, so decided to go the RO route as it fit my controlling personality as well. You're right on with that point Mr. Krip!
- Thread starter
- #972
Here are is my hydro reservoir set-up. I thought I'd post as many details as I could for those who might benefit from it...
I have one in use, and a second one pre-filled with RO water for the next reservoir change (once a week). Notice the connectors for the RO system on the front just under the lid handle. This is the float valve attached to the "reservoir" (In my case new/cleaned Rubbermaid trash bins converted for the purpose).
My pumps and hoses are connected via the lid, and that one lid is always on the active reservoir. Basically, I just mix up my new nutes in the secondary reservoir (which was prefilled with RO Water), and switch the lids on the reservoirs so that the one that has the pump hanging from it goes to the one with newly mixed nutes. I then take the "old" reservoir, dump the old nutes, clean it, and fill it up again with water for the next cycle.
Here's my Rubbermaid reservoirs, the one on the left is the active one, the one on the right has fresh RO water in preparation for the next nutrient change:
View of the connection for the float valve - these connectors just require that you "push" the 1/4" line into the connector, and "pull" it out (no tools required):
Float valve from the inside of the reservoir - the water trickles in, and the float closes the valve when it is forced up by the rising water level, keeping if from flooding if you just let it go. In my opinion, a float valve is a must have with an RO system - it allows you to walk away and forget about it without fear of creating a flood. (You can tell by the color of the water this is a picture of the active nutrient reservoir)
Rubbermaid totes also make good reservoirs, as do plastic drums (get the kind with removable lids so you can clean them). I prefer Rubbermaid as they seem to be durable and flexible - less prone to crack than the harder plastic containers. Hit me up if I can provide any more info or answer any further questions, etc...
I have one in use, and a second one pre-filled with RO water for the next reservoir change (once a week). Notice the connectors for the RO system on the front just under the lid handle. This is the float valve attached to the "reservoir" (In my case new/cleaned Rubbermaid trash bins converted for the purpose).
My pumps and hoses are connected via the lid, and that one lid is always on the active reservoir. Basically, I just mix up my new nutes in the secondary reservoir (which was prefilled with RO Water), and switch the lids on the reservoirs so that the one that has the pump hanging from it goes to the one with newly mixed nutes. I then take the "old" reservoir, dump the old nutes, clean it, and fill it up again with water for the next cycle.
Here's my Rubbermaid reservoirs, the one on the left is the active one, the one on the right has fresh RO water in preparation for the next nutrient change:
View of the connection for the float valve - these connectors just require that you "push" the 1/4" line into the connector, and "pull" it out (no tools required):
Float valve from the inside of the reservoir - the water trickles in, and the float closes the valve when it is forced up by the rising water level, keeping if from flooding if you just let it go. In my opinion, a float valve is a must have with an RO system - it allows you to walk away and forget about it without fear of creating a flood. (You can tell by the color of the water this is a picture of the active nutrient reservoir)
Rubbermaid totes also make good reservoirs, as do plastic drums (get the kind with removable lids so you can clean them). I prefer Rubbermaid as they seem to be durable and flexible - less prone to crack than the harder plastic containers. Hit me up if I can provide any more info or answer any further questions, etc...
hmmmm....im sure that a Fluidmaster toilet kit could be converted for this use...how much are those float valve kits??? toilet kind is around 10-15$...
ok so today is a good day. I just tested the ppm of my tap and it was only 490. Did I mention we have a water softener? No clue how that works. But it's there in the garage with the rocks in it.
You should see my dishes after the dishwasher. They come out with stains of calcium. We eat rocks for dinner and drink stones like kool-aid in Vegas baby. Oh, and our yards as a general rule, are rock gardens.
two questions:
Whats a RODI? I've seen it numerous times above and don't know the acronym.
What effect does a water softener have on our grow water when using Reverse Osmosis at the faucet? **Thinking towards the future and adding an RO like you guys talk about instead of refilling 4-6 5 gal jugs at the store every week.
Hey there XLR8!! I really like your RO set up!! Great idea and inexpensive!!! With my ebb and gro I woul mix tap and RO 50/50. Our tap water is at around 350 ppm. Great set up. Plants are looking fantastic!!!
Nice system you got going there XLR8 love the simplicity and convience of the lid switch 
Seems like RO setups are the way forward for people that drink handfulls of dissolved salts everyday! Yuk ... My tap pumps out water that reads 600 - 700ppm tastes like S*#%!
Grew with it once and my ladies did NOT like it one bit i tried all sort of nutes hydro guy said oh this hard water stuff will work nice ... Ummm no way to much calcium tried another he recommended and no gussing what happened.
I use bottled water now same nutes and never get the problems i used to i will get a RO system hooked up soon anoth there just VERY expensive here but well worth it!
Seems like RO setups are the way forward for people that drink handfulls of dissolved salts everyday! Yuk ... My tap pumps out water that reads 600 - 700ppm tastes like S*#%!
Grew with it once and my ladies did NOT like it one bit i tried all sort of nutes hydro guy said oh this hard water stuff will work nice ... Ummm no way to much calcium tried another he recommended and no gussing what happened.
I use bottled water now same nutes and never get the problems i used to i will get a RO system hooked up soon anoth there just VERY expensive here but well worth it!
First question answer
RODI stands for Reverse Osmosis DeIonized water. (Explains RODI)Water quality information - Water Deionization Process Explained | APEC Water
Second question answer
Water is filtered so any softener will be removed. You might have to add a sediment filter before the ro unit to help prolong its life. Your filters and membranes will have a shorter lifespan because your water is so bad. I am sorry you have such bad water bro.
XLR8.
I use 150 plus gallons a week. Water is not dirt cheap when I see a bill for over 300 bucks. I did use the calmag for a while but could see no difference when used with it and when used without. Silica does raise ph but can drop back down and/or not raise ph up enough. Silica does seem to work, seen it during a cloning accident but you can't rely on it. Nutes are made to be ph buffered close to 6.0 plus or minus 0.9 but when the plant shits in the water or something rots ph can change quite quickly and it can go up,up,up or crash down hard(below 4.0ph). With the ebb I rarely have ph issues but with dwc and aero it can be a rollercoaster ride. Even with a chiller and rodi 7ppm water. Recirculation systems will always need to be monitored, the roots suck(drink) and expel(piss). So your always going to have to have the up and down solutions handy. I bought the chiller and the rodi because I thought they were my missing links. I got my environment under control. Lighting, temp, humidity, air exchange and odor control is well within the green and the only things left were water quality and water temp. After I fixed those 2 items I should be awesome. After a few grows I found that that these things were not as much of a problem as I thought. So I am still learning to grow a better plant. I want the perfect grow and for some reason I just can't seem to get there. Its why I keep coming back to the forums. I am in a rut and I am doing my best to get out of it. After 8 plus years growing I have only had one 1 gram per watt grow and sometimes I feel like I cheated cause I had to go vertcal to do it. Its fustrating and its not like I am idle, I had 11 plus harvests last year with homemade setups and expensive setups and I try new products all the time. I keep thinking the next grow is going to be the great one. I can only seem to get close. Its fustrating, maybe I raised the bar too high. I wish I was a better grower. I need a smoke break.
Mr Smith, thanks for the link. Kinda over my head. Is RODI different from RO then?
Its one step further for better water quality but now that I own it I kinda wish I bought a tall boy sediment declorinator filter set up or a regular ro machine. The tall boy wastes no water and a ro waste is 2 to 1. A rodi is 3 to 1 but my math might be wrong lol. Might depend on the manufacturer. I don't think rodi is needed to grow a plant but if its a reef tank then its what you almost need. I think your just better off with a normal ro machine with a added sediment filter. I bought the big rodi, makes 150gal a day at 60psi. If I knew it was auto shutoff when I bought it I would have bought a smaller unit but such is life.
- Thread starter
- #980
Hiya GT -
They're $15-20. Not too bad, though it's probably $4.00 worth of hardware/parts.