Xlr8's "Flo N Gro" Hydro Multiple Strains 2011

Lovin it XL, looks like you have your lamps/heat all sorted out now with the tent, looks awesome man!!!!!

how is your hydro unit working so far? any nuances you've had to fiddle with?
 
Blue Planet Nutrients said:
I was messing with my email address. Try again, I got it straightened out
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Hi Corey - I tried again and you've already responded. It was just to update you with the amounts of root zone conditioner I've been using. Thanks again for everything. :high-five:
 
Mr. Krip said:
Looking great, Bro & glad to hear you're feeling better! :thumb:

That Lavendar is a real nice looking flower!
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:thankyou: Mr. K!

Yes, the Lavender already has about 4 flowers just like that one. :) It's supposed to turn a deep red/burgundy color toward the end... I'm feeling a little better, but it's frustrating that it's not as much as I'd like. Oh well, guess I'll take what I can get! ;)
 
naphtali5725 said:
Lovin it XL, looks like you have your lamps/heat all sorted out now with the tent, looks awesome man!!!!!

how is your hydro unit working so far? any nuances you've had to fiddle with?
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Hi Naph!

Yes, I finally got the environmental stuff like I want it. I'm able to run (2) 400w lamps in there and keep the temps at about 77f most of the time. I'm really happy with that, and the plants seem to be too. ;)

The hydro unit has worked, frankly, perfect. :wood: I can't really think of anything that I can complain about with it, and the plants have been perfectly healthy/happy since the day I put them in. I haven't had to fiddle with or nuance anything. This thing rocks!

The funny thing is that I was doubting it before I even started using it, and had started working out a plan to do a home-made DWC under-current hydro system (similar to what Mr. Smith is using now). But... I can see many advantages to the Flo N Gro now for my set-up, and I'm in no hurry to change or experiment with things working this well.

I feel lucky as the hydro system, nutes, and lamp set-up are all on their first full run, so I was expecting more challenges/problems with all this newness and change. Fun to have thought, luck and preparation come together and actually work the way you envision it could. :)
 
Optimum Lamp Height

As I was trying to educate myself on the best height to keep the canopy at (or at least try to), I came across some pretty good info that I thought I'd share which helps determine the OLH (Optimum Lamp Height) for HPS lamps.

For heat purposes, if you can comfortably hold the back of your hand under the lamp, then heat isn't an issue at that distance. And, for heat, it's pretty much that simple. I keep a fan recirculating right under the lamps in order to keep heat from gathering at the top of the canopy under the lights, and it works well to keep the heat in check near the tops.

For lighting purposes, aside from heat, we have to contend with the "Inverse Square Law" - bear with me as this is a bit technical (emphasis mine):

"The intensity (or illuminance or irradiance) of light or other linear waves radiating from a point source (energy per unit of area perpendicular to the source) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source; so an object (of the same size) twice as far away, receives only one-quarter the energy (in the same time period)."


This image helped me understand this principle better:
400px-Inverse_square_law_svg.png




From a more practical standpoint, this chart helps understand the importance of distance using HPS lamps, and helped me to be comfortable using 12" as my goal for Canopy height, given that I can control the heat:
FC-Chart-HPS.jpg


Sisco posted a great link as well on the previous page, which I'm reposting here:


What Distance Should my Light be from my Plants


Hope someone finds all this as useful as I did! :)
 
Xlr8 said:


The funny thing is that I was doubting it before I even started using it, and had started working out a plan to do a home-made DWC under-current hydro system (similar to what Mr. Smith is using now). But... I can see many advantages to the Flo N Gro now for my set-up, and I'm in no hurry to change or experiment with things working this well.
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Really enjoying watching your grow. I get to learn lots of interesting things.

Couple questions xlr8.

1. In this system, if you actually ran a return line at the end, into a pump, then res or chiller or whatever, and eliminated the timer you have now, would it essentially be RDWC?

2. Is flo n gro just a style versus a specific benefit over other types of hydro systems?

Thanks.
 
Welp, I just repped you on the previous page for your great job with this new system....Wish I could rep you twice cuz that last post is equally great.

Acording to that chart, though, it looks as though mt 150 watt Hps would be safe at 4 inches away....Surely that can't be true.....
 
XLR8, great representation of the Inverse Square Rule! :welldone:

This is "The Epic Battle" indoor growers are always fighting (doesn't come into play for outdoor grows, but the law still applies).

Many new growers don't understand what a big difference only a few inches can really make. For example, a plant placed 4" from a CFL receives 1/16th the light energy of a plant located 1" from the CFL. That 3" difference amounts to 1/16th the usable light! :thedoubletake:
 
Those ladies are looking great. Youre going to have a vast ocean of primo tops. Yum yum. Hopefully those phenos all have a similar flowering time.

Diggin the full house X, keep it up!
 
Bassman59 said:
Really enjoying watching your grow. I get to learn lots of interesting things.

Couple questions xlr8.

1. In this system, if you actually ran a return line at the end, into a pump, then res or chiller or whatever, and eliminated the timer you have now, would it essentially be RDWC?

2. Is flo n gro just a style versus a specific benefit over other types of hydro systems?

Thanks.
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Hi Bassman -

First - :thankyou: I'm glad you found my thread helpful or useful. Cool!

As far as your questions -

I'm sure with a little modification this could be made into a RDWC system, but it would be cheaper and easier to just get a system like that from the get-go.

The Flo N Gro is a Flood/Drain style of hydroponic growing that uses buckets. A competitors product, called the Ebb N Gro works essentially the same way. Basically, the buckets contain an "inner bucket" filled with medium - in my case hydroton. Every few hours (during flower - not as frequently in veg) the system "floods" the root zone of the buckets for 15 minutes, then drains it all back into the reservoir.

I've done DWC type systems, and I have to say that there is a lot I like better about this, especially in a tent. For example in DWC, you really need to have a chiller or keep your temps in check to keep the heat from wrecking your roots. I like that my reservoir for the Flo N Gro is kept outside of the tent, and the nutrient solution spends the majority of it's time in the cool room outside of the tent. So far these have been bursting with white healthy roots - no chiller needed.

The plants seem to love this style of hydro, and several of the best growers on this site have used a similar bucket system (Ebb N Gro) with great results (Mr. Smith, Pitviper, Munki... to name a few).

DWC (or RDWC) is a great way to grow, but this has advantages, and I don't see myself going back to DWC anytime soon, except maybe to experiment. I will probably continue to do my early veg/seedlings in a small DWC tub until moving them to the Flo N Gro, though, as that works great until the roots are a little better developed.

Here is a link of a review I did on the Flo N Gro:

Titan Controls: Flo N Gro Review

Hope your gals are doing well - I need to swing by and see how you're doing with the humidity battle. :)
 
The only thing I don't like about ebbs is the amount of medium you have to use or spend on. I hate rinsing out large amounts of hydrotron and stgs are expensive. I love how easy it is to grow with them and with the multibuckets I can rearrange or spread out. My rdwc is fixed position but it has its own percs.

Xlr8 said:
Nice start, Mr. Smith. Looks like you've got a lot of tops forming - I like how you trimmed them up. :thumb:
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Xlr8, removing the fan leaves from the main stalk stalls vertical growth in that area and speeds node growth and outer plant egde growth. Its just another form of plant manipulation making the lateral branches compete against each other trying to become the dominate stalk. The stalk thats tallest and closest to the light starts to become the main stalk until I remove some of its fans leaves and slow her down then a new race begins until the stretch period is over. This makes for big tops that will have big buds on the ends. The lower area gets low light penetration which makes alot of popcorn so I reduce and strip most of the lower levels. I think it makes trimming easier at the end. The plants would react the same way if I was to start tieing them down but then I would have to trim the dense canopy anyways and as of right now I don't need for that type of vertical height control. We can still go up with the lights.

You might find this thread interesting if you ever decide to veg in one area and flower in another. DIY gravity drain multibucket controller
 
Quixilvir said:
Welp, I just repped you on the previous page for your great job with this new system....Wish I could rep you twice cuz that last post is equally great.

Acording to that chart, though, it looks as though mt 150 watt Hps would be safe at 4 inches away....Surely that can't be true.....
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Hey Quix! Thanks for the rep buddy. Very cool. :thanks:

I don't think you're running your 150w air cooled, so that may not work for you due to the heat. If it were sufficiently air-cooled, with a fan blowing just above the canopy to keep the heat from gathering you could do it no problem. Heck, it should run cooler than a 400, so you might be able to get that close anyway.

Just stick your hand at the height you are thinking, with the back of your hand toward the bulb. If it is uncomfortable (too hot) for you, it will be for the plant, too. If the back of your hand feels fine, you can put it that close to your plants. You can get them close if you can manage the heat. :)
 
Mr. Krip said:
XLR8, great representation of the Inverse Square Rule! :welldone:

This is "The Epic Battle" indoor growers are always fighting (doesn't come into play for outdoor grows, but the law still applies).

Many new growers don't understand what a big difference only a few inches can really make. For example, a plant placed 4" from a CFL receives 1/16th the light energy of a plant located 1" from the CFL. That 3" difference amounts to 1/16th the usable light! :thedoubletake:
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Fantastic example, Mr. Krip.

One of the things I love about growing is the continuous learning that goes with it. In the Mothership I used to use, my light height was fixed. So, the new set-up requires lots of new learning about lighting!

Thanks for sharing that example. It's a good one that many can relate too. :thumb:
 
Magic beans said:
Those ladies are looking great. Youre going to have a vast ocean of primo tops. Yum yum. Hopefully those phenos all have a similar flowering time.

Diggin the full house X, keep it up!
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:thankyou: MB -

There should be a lot of nice bud in there the way they're already plumping up. :yahoo:

They all have similar flowering time (theoretically - as you mentioned some phenos can vary) except the Chocolope in the DWC bucket.

One thing I've learned -- it's silly to flower more than 4 good plants in a tent this size unless you were going the SOG route. At least that's my thought at the moment. It's pretty danged filled up. I guess it's all about veg time and height...
 
Mr Smith said:
The only thing I don't like about ebbs is the amount of medium you have to use or spend on. I hate rinsing out large amounts of hydrotron and stgs are expensive. I love how easy it is to grow with them and with the multibuckets I can rearrange or spread out. My rdwc is fixed position but it has its own percs.



Xlr8, removing the fan leaves from the main stalk stalls vertical growth in that area and speeds node growth and outer plant egde growth. Its just another form of plant manipulation making the lateral branches compete against each other trying to become the dominate stalk. The stalk thats tallest and closest to the light starts to become the main stalk until I remove some of its fans leaves and slow her down then a new race begins until the stretch period is over. This makes for big tops that will have big buds on the ends. The lower area gets low light penetration which makes alot of popcorn so I reduce and strip most of the lower levels. I think it makes trimming easier at the end. The plants would react the same way if I was to start tieing them down but then I would have to trim the dense canopy anyways and as of right now I don't need for that type of vertical height control. We can still go up with the lights.

You might find this thread interesting if you ever decide to veg in one area and flower in another. DIY gravity drain multibucket controller
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Hey there Mr. Smith!

Yes, it royally blows how much medium it takes for this system. You are correct. I think I mentioned that as a "Con" on the review I did. The other possible disadvantage is just all the movement of water - it would be easy to flood your grow space if a hose isn't connected well to a fitting, etc.

I love DWC, and the under current style you are doing is one of the coolest hydro systems going in my opinion. I've been dying to do a run just like the one you're doing now, and I'm thrilled to see you doing it. I've been saving kitty litter buckets up, and still want to do it someday as I like experimenting a lot like you do.

But, I see nothing about the Flo N Gro (yet) that makes me feel like I NEED to try anything else. Growth has been vigorous, and they've been the picture of health since I put them in the system. Roots are bone white.

What's not to love? Oh yeah, all that *&%$*&!! hydroton. That does suck, but may be worthwhile for how smooth it works otherwise. Ugh, I hate rinsing it too. What a pain! It ain't cheap for that much of it either...

Great tips on defoliating along the main stalk to reduce stretch and encourage lateral growth. Makes so much sense!

I really like that DIY Gravity drain controller you made. I most definitely will keep that in mind if I start vegging separately. I have some ideas on that but they may have to wait a while. Right now, space and stealth make that difficult.

Great post, Mr. Smith. :thumb:
 
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